Aurthorian Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hello everyone, As background about me. I have been a subscriber since launch, I have 15 character on 1 server with an accumulation of over 39,000 achievement points. Suffice to say, SWTOR is not new to me. I have a big concern and would like the opinion of some serious SWTOR community players. My concern is the influx of inexperienced players to SWTOR, I am seeing more and more players that can not complete the simple story mode operation. I am not talking about the random things the developers have not fixed. I am talking about the complete lack of knowledge of characters all these new players are having. IMO, it derives from sub 60 content where players can steamroll content due to levels. Story mode group finder SnV, TFB and such is so easy for a new level 60 player that they do not bother to learn the mechanics of the operation. The new players are relying on level mitigation and moderate DPS to clear content. This is fine to an extent. However, it is not fine when it teaches new players that they do not have to learn the mechanics or improve the damage out put of their characters to clear content. As it stands there are many groups that PUG group finder, we/they encounter players that when you have them hop into a parse because an enrage timer was hit, you discover that their DPS was almost as low as the tanks and in MANY cases sub 2,000 dps and it was not the gear. I am talking players having full coms gear or a mix of 192/198 coms gear. The issue I see is not that the operation are too difficult, or there are not people willing to tell them the mechanics of the fight. I think the real issue is the complexities of the classes, I think they are so vague for new players that they don't understand how drastic dps changes from a bad rotation to a good rotation. let alone what a good rotation is. Yes there are guides out there that spell out all the abilities and say do this and do that. Guess what, New players do not know how or where to find most of these. I see a HUGE problem with the level cap increasing and the operations being adjusted with the amount of people that will actually be able to complete the content of these operation. I an NOT saying make the operations easier. that would make things worse and I enjoy the challenge of the operations the way they are. I feel if something is not done then people will only run these operations with people they know, they will not run the content or will leave the game for lack completion. As it stands, a lot of people already don't want to run operations if they are not going to have a chance to complete them. Running a SM TOS in group finder and hitting the enrage timer for 2 hours on Underlurker because people can not put out enough dps even with proper gear is the most frustrating thing to experience. To stay in an operation for 3 plus hours that should not take more then 1 hour max is an experience that we should not have to endure. some of us do not get but a few hours a day, not endless hours that some groups would require. I don't like to complain unless I have ideas for solutions so here we go. When we first create a character we were given a tutorial to show us the ropes, when GSF was introduces you gave us a tutorial to show us the ropes. My thought is that you provides a tutorial for when players reach max level. you devs created the classes, it would be super easy to walk players through the abilities and when they should be using them and why. In closing do you other players think that a tutorial would be beneficial? If you do please help get this post to the devs so we as players can help make this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewan Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 You know, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from running your own training ops. Choose one of the lower level ones so it won't be too challenging but will have mechanics to explain. Bring a solid core and announce in Fleet chat that you are doing a training run and ask if anyone is interested in coming along. Check their gear, make suggestions, offer to help them gear up, explain all the mechanics, let them watch all the cutscenes, etc. If someone is an annoying jerk, boot them quickly so that the new players don't get intimidated. Be prepared for it to run an hour longer than you think it should. Be willing to split the run into two parts if necessary. A tutorial that people have to read or play with AIs is not the same as learning to deal with other players. The only way to learn the strange mechanics is to actually do them. If you are concerned with people not knowing how to play and not having fun because of it, then step up and teach them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurthorian Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 You know, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from running your own training ops. Choose one of the lower level ones so it won't be too challenging but will have mechanics to explain. Bring a solid core and announce in Fleet chat that you are doing a training run and ask if anyone is interested in coming along. Check their gear, make suggestions, offer to help them gear up, explain all the mechanics, let them watch all the cutscenes, etc. If someone is an annoying jerk, boot them quickly so that the new players don't get intimidated. Be prepared for it to run an hour longer than you think it should. Be willing to split the run into two parts if necessary. A tutorial that people have to read or play with AIs is not the same as learning to deal with other players. The only way to learn the strange mechanics is to actually do them. If you are concerned with people not knowing how to play and not having fun because of it, then step up and teach them. you mean to say all you got from my post was.. "I need to teach people operations?".. reread my post guy, its players not knowing their class, not players not knowing the fights. players explain operations all the time, but knowing the mechanics and not knowing how to play your class to beat the mechanics can not be taught in an operation nor is it the place to teach it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_Hosa_Phat Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I hate to invoke <the game which shall not be named> (the one from that "frosty" development company), but they have something similar to what I believe you're suggesting. They call it the "Proving Grounds" (IIRC), and it gives you an opportunity to play your selected role (healer/tank/DPS) with an AI group against groups of mobs at varying levels of difficulty. Now, I would venture to guess that you're wanting something that may provide a little more in-depth assistance to max-level players that are trying to learn their class. I imagine that BW could develop a more "story-centric" version of the Proving Grounds, where, for example, a Jedi Sage Seer is taught by a wizened Master of the healing arts how best to keep the Jedi Knights that are fighting to protect them from falling to their enemies. It wouldn't "actually" go into specific ability rotations, but even that could be worked into the conversation pretty easily. Entering an instance of this "Battle Training Simulator" would also initiate a gear check that would help the player to better understand what gear is going to provide them with the most help for their chosen role. Anyway, that's just my thoughts on the topic. I think it would be a great addition for all sorts of players. I'd certainly use it to improve my play-style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monumenta Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 There used to be this thing in this game that allowed players to learn their classes as they advanced to endgame, I believe it was called 'story missions' but the Devs lowered the bar and brought us tactical flashpoints (read as- get something while learning and being accountable for nothing) now people know less and more people make it to endgame. I doubt there's an easy solution to this, it's really the players own responsibility to learn their class if they want to succeed at endgame stuffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_Hosa_Phat Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 There used to be this thing in this game that allowed players to learn their classes as they advanced to endgame, I believe it was called 'story missions' but the Devs lowered the bar and brought us tactical flashpoints (read as- get something while learning and being accountable for nothing) now people know less and more people make it to endgame. I doubt there's an easy solution to this, it's really the players own responsibility to learn their class if they want to succeed at endgame stuffs. And I certainly agree that it is the player's responsibility to learn how play their class/role. I certainly do not consider myself an expert healer, and I could definitely stand to learn some things about end-game healing, even though that's the class I play almost exclusively. I don't engage in much end-game group play primarily because I don't know some of the more intricate elements of high-level healing, and don't want the group to suffer for my deficiencies. I would love to get myself into some Operations, but I don't want to burden the other players with teaching me the best rotations and such. This is where something like the above "Proving Grounds"/"Battle Training Simulator" would come in useful for someone like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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