tunewalker Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I need a face palm emote. Every single class was on Rishi investigating the Revanites because they all had a class story on Rishi that directly refers to them helping find Revan. All the promotions at the end of the act were also Canon, they're progression for the characters that's also referenced on Ziost. Not all of them faced Revan but it makes sense that some of them did, the fact the Wrath is named in the fight and was canonically on Yavin is proof enough that he fought Revan. The person on Rishi, the CLASS on Rishi is the one you CHOSE to put on Rishi. The same basic beats are hit all the way through, but like whether Revan was a Girl, or a Boy in KoToR or the start whether you were a Soldier or a Scout some of the interactions change, maybe some of hte titles change, but the same basic story is played out regardless of your class choice. The person that gets the premotion is the one you CHOSE to get a premotion. Its like saying they were all on Makeb or all on any of the other planets. They werent Bioware has straight out said that the only quests that are canon to the characters are the class quests that ENDED at lvl 50. None of the flash points, none of the Operations, none of the planet quests and yes Rishi and Yavin are planet quests with a flavor difference for classes are canon to those characters never have and still arent, and as of yet the best thing you have to the "contrary" is the fact that 1 characters name was mentioned in 1 of the 8 possible scenarios... guess what there are 7 more possible scenarios where that characters name was never spoken, hell If I count the ops and the different compositions the Ops can be made of there Are HUNDREDS of possible scenarios in which that name was never spoken. Doesnt make any of them any more or less canon then the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Flashpoints are canon. 4 person, 4 class. Doesn't get any more specific than that. Edited June 24, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Flashpoints are canon. 4 person, 4 class. Doesn't get any more specific than that. Flash points EVENTS are canon, the characters being there ARE NOT as far as I am aware Bioware has SPECIFICALLY stated this. In fact if you look up any of the characters on Wookie... well here is what you get on flash points. "Flashpoints are multiplayer mission series where teams of players go on assignments to various locations and participate in the storyline of the Flashpoint. However, these missions are repeatable and do not fall in any explicit place in the timeline, and they can also be accomplished by teams of up to four, so for simplicity the Flashpoints are excluded from the character's story until further confirmation." (further confirmation of course has never been given as they are not canon to any of the characters.) There has never been any confirmation that the flash points are or have ever been, or will ever be a part of a characters story, this goes with Ops as well and considering the whole revan fight is an Ops (the single player option was there for players as an OPTION if they couldnt get a proper Ops group together to still experience the end of Revan and the rise of the Emperor.) then you can see I have 1 more leg to stand on for the whole... That's all not canon. Then add in the fact that their can only be 1 "outlander" and their are 8 characters, the "outlander" is the one that did all of this Flash point stuff, and so on and so forth WITH A STRIKE TEAM... that as far as I know doesnt exist any more IE the other classes arent present only the 1 you CHOSE to be present, and the one you chose is just that a CHOICE and PLayer choice is not canon. Edited June 24, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The person on Rishi, the CLASS on Rishi is the one you CHOSE to put on Rishi. The same basic beats are hit all the way through, but like whether Revan was a Girl, or a Boy in KoToR or the start whether you were a Soldier or a Scout some of the interactions change, maybe some of hte titles change, but the same basic story is played out regardless of your class choice. The person that gets the premotion is the one you CHOSE to get a premotion. Its like saying they were all on Makeb or all on any of the other planets. They werent Bioware has straight out said that the only quests that are canon to the characters are the class quests that ENDED at lvl 50. None of the flash points, none of the Operations, none of the planet quests and yes Rishi and Yavin are planet quests with a flavor difference for classes are canon to those characters never have and still arent, and as of yet the best thing you have to the "contrary" is the fact that 1 characters name was mentioned in 1 of the 8 possible scenarios... guess what there are 7 more possible scenarios where that characters name was never spoken, hell If I count the ops and the different compositions the Ops can be made of there Are HUNDREDS of possible scenarios in which that name was never spoken. Doesnt make any of them any more or less canon then the rest. Cite literally everything you just said Bioware confirmed. Literally right now, because you can't just throw around "Bioware said" when they haven't. And you've yet to explain why they all had dedicated class quests then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 There has never been any confirmation that the flash points are or have ever been, or will ever be a part of a characters story, this goes with Ops as well and considering the whole revan fight is an Ops (the single player option was there for players as an OPTION if they couldnt get a proper Ops group together to still experience the end of Revan and the rise of the Emperor.) then you can see I have 1 more leg to stand on for the whole... That's all not canon. Then add in the fact that their can only be 1 "outlander" and their are 8 characters, the "outlander" is the one that did all of this Flash point stuff, and so on and so forth WITH A STRIKE TEAM... that as far as I know doesnt exist any more IE the other classes arent present only the 1 you CHOSE to be present, and the one you chose is just that a CHOICE and PLayer choice is not canon. Technically, Revan survives the TOS fight and disappears near the end, similar to the Foundry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Cite literally everything you just said Bioware confirmed. Literally right now, because you can't just throw around "Bioware said" when they haven't. And you've yet to explain why they all had dedicated class quests then. The Outlander: your character’s past will be a key part of their identity as the Outlander moving forward. The choices you’ve made, romances you’ve pursued, your class, etc are all a part of who your character is, and those decisions will be honored in KOTFE; often in unexpected ways. How that works for characters who are created at level 60 is something we’ll dive into in the future, but we will not be setting a “canon” version of any class or world storyline. Your choices matter – that’s at the heart of our storytelling philosophy at BioWare. Bioware does the explaining for me. A premotion is a premotion, the "class" quest is just the results of your CHOICE of class to undertake that story line with nothing more. Its no different then Dark Side ending Revan vs Light Side ending Revan. Looking for the others, but they are so old that they may have been around during Beta and I may be unable to find them at this point, but again even WOOKIE does not acknowledge anything from any of the planets, flash points or Ops quests as canon and they also dont acknowledge any of hte Rishi stuff or any of the Yavin stuff, but when I find these old as dirt quotes I will get them to you... assuming I have time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Technically, Revan survives the TOS fight and disappears near the end, similar to the Foundry. Technically the whole fight is an OPTION and a skippable one at that and as we say about player choice (since again you can go straight to the ops one) Edited June 24, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I doubt were gonna get anything considering TOR is in the Legends catagory, so as far as the protags getting actual names and charactertization and so forth, don't think it's gonna really happen or at least nothing in depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Bioware does the explaining for me. A premotion is a premotion, the "class" quest is just the results of your CHOICE of class to undertake that story line with nothing more. Its no different then Dark Side ending Revan vs Light Side ending Revan. Looking for the others, but they are so old that they may have been around during Beta and I may be unable to find them at this point, but again even WOOKIE does not acknowledge anything from any of the planets, flash points or Ops quests as canon and they also dont acknowledge any of hte Rishi stuff or any of the Yavin stuff, but when I find these old as dirt quotes I will get them to you... assuming I have time..... Why are you using a new storyline as proof :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Technically the whole fight is an OPTION and a skippable one at that and as we say about player choice (since again you can go straight to the ops one) And what would you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 And what would you suggest? Whichever option has Revan come out as weakest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Whichever option has Revan come out as weakest. In your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Why are you using a new storyline as proof :/ Because part of it straight says Bioware's stance on what is and isnt player choice. Character class IS player choice, and as leland has stated a players CHOICES are not canon. Who YOU brought to the flashpoint is YOUR choice, who YOU brought to Rishi is you CHOICE, and player choice is non-canon. As Class is among those in the eyes of bioware well there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 And what would you suggest? The story is canon, always has been. The PC's being there isnt, never has been. Did he defeat Satele, Darth Marr, and the rest of that group... no but he put up a good fight. Even then his best feat is still the Revan Novel against Vitiate as Vitiate, as far as I can tell, is capable of DEFEATING that group that Revan Lost to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The story is canon, always has been. The PC's being there isnt, never has been. Did he defeat Satele, Darth Marr, and the rest of that group... no but he put up a good fight. Even then his best feat is still the Revan Novel against Vitiate as Vitiate, as far as I can tell, is capable of DEFEATING that group that Revan Lost to. Except at least one of the protags had to be there, lest the Coalition be defeated by Revan at the Forgotten Terrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Actually, this reminds me. How are we dealing with discrepancies between Canon and legends. Character representations between the two mediums are not always the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Except at least one of the protags had to be there, lest the Coalition be defeated by Revan at the Forgotten Terrace. Not neccisarily, Its possible but if you HAD to put them there, then it needs to be possible for it to be the strongest or the weakest or the middle or which ever, at which point the feat becomes Vague at best and unusable. either way this is the key to the argument we will not be setting a “canon” version of any class or world storyline. Your choices matter – that’s at the heart of our storytelling philosophy at BioWare. This philosophy right here straight says if you were to go to a dev and ask them "hey I want to play as the character class that was there to defeat Revan with Darth Marr and Satele, which class should I play?" Their answer will be "any class you choose our game is all about player choice we are NOT setting any "canon" version of any of them its all about YOUR story so enjoy your story." Like when Voldimort had the choice between Harry or Neville as both fit the prophecy, its your choices that define who you are and who you face off against. It could have been Harry or Neville, Voldemort CHOSE harry and thus Harry was the "chosen one" because he was chosen. The one you CHOOSE to face Revan with, that is YOUR choice that is THE choice, that is "the chosen one". Edit: i personally consider this a GOOD thing. I like my character, I liked Revan MORE when he didnt have a "Canon" messing with him. The fact is the HoT is the HoT, but my character... is mine, nobody elses. Actually that might be a fun thread... "your SWTOR canon"... not what you THINK is canon or what you Consider canon, but what you as a player did that defined your story, but that will be for something else... and has probably been done. Edited June 24, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Not neccisarily, Its possible but if you HAD to put them there, then it needs to be possible for it to be the strongest or the weakest or the middle or which ever, at which point the feat becomes Vague at best and unusable. You do have to put them there, because the protag is the only one who bails the Coalition out of trouble. If we have to determine who was there, shouldn't it be the individual specifically addressed when all others are not? Seems like the most likely option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 You do have to put them there, because the protag is the only one who bails the Coalition out of trouble. If we have to determine who was there, shouldn't it be the individual specifically addressed when all others are not? Seems like the most likely option. nope because there was 7 other options when they were not addressed. Also technically any one could have bailed them out, a random trooper number 12 could have bailed them out of their trouble from what I could tell. So... not necissarily.... and that is ONLY if you take the fight MECHANICS into consideration.... which isnt a cut scene and Game Mechanics are... again every one say it with me.... Non-canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Gonna PM Sel and Beni about this. What they decide is what we'll go with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 There's also special dialogue for the HoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 There's also special dialogue for the HoT. Please share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Sel, Beni? Thoughts on point costs for some of these characters?I think I would class Streen as a Force combatant given his exceptional Alter Enviroment powers, that said I think its more of an innate gift than a reflection of exceptional power, I also don't see much evidence of lightsaber skill, given that I'd say he's probably a 25. The other figures I concur with. I'll lock it in if we are all in agreement.Vitiate calls the Wrath by name. All of the Player Characters were on Yavin and Rishi, the one who's actually named in the fight would obviously be the most likely canon choice.And in some dialogues he doesn't. I don't think it makes the Wrath any more important. Anyway this isn't the place for this debate.Actually, this reminds me. How are we dealing with discrepancies between Canon and legends. Character representations between the two mediums are not always the same.I think its best to take Canon over Legends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I think I would class Streen as a Force combatant given his exceptional Alter Enviroment powers, that said I think its more of an innate gift than a reflection of exceptional power, I also don't see much evidence of lightsaber skill, given that I'd say he's probably a 25. The other figures I concur with. I'll lock it in if we are all in agreement. I think its best to take Canon over Legends. Agreed on both accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Please share. I don't remember what it was it just made it feel 'right'. At least to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts