Let's talk about Strike Fighters

[CommanderKiko]

I'm noticing a pattern on the forums, just as in GSF chat, of people confusing builds with skill.

 

Making any ship too overpowered will provide the issue of them suddenly being able to shred newbs with no effort. We see this with newbs complaining that gunships or t2 scouts ripped them apart before they can do anything about it. Making every ship too OP only compounds this issue further. It's quite a trap, as skilled players just want more and more buffs to balance things out and make everything OP, and new players already think things are too OP for them to handle.

 

Making everything capable of killing everything even faster in a game where new players leave due to how fast they get killed seems like a bad idea for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it...

[Devrius]

I'm noticing a pattern on the forums, just as in GSF chat, of people confusing builds with skill.

 

Making any ship too overpowered will provide the issue of them suddenly being able to shred newbs with no effort. We see this with newbs complaining that gunships or t2 scouts ripped them apart before they can do anything about it. Making every ship too OP only compounds this issue further. It's quite a trap, as skilled players just want more and more buffs to balance things out and make everything OP, and new players already think things are too OP for them to handle.

 

Making everything capable of killing everything even faster in a game where new players leave due to how fast they get killed seems like a bad idea for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it...

 

I would agree, but the objective of the thread is not balancing GSF, making it more newb friendly or increasing survival of ships while under fire.

 

The dev team has literally asked us how to buff Strike Figthers, which is why people talk about how to, you guessed it, buff Strike Figthers...

[JasonSzeremi]

But conversely, any new player who takes a Rycer will be at least somewhat potent and threatening by default. So long as they can point and shoot, they will do damage.

 

And if they die to another Strike, they won't have reason to complain about space shotguns, sniper rifles, or bombers ruining their dogfighting game.

 

Exactly, it's one thing to lose because you're learning.... that's to be expected, it's another to lose because your dog fighting ship can't dogfight better then a gunship.

Strikes should have high damage output, the problem then becomes getting their guns on target.... gunships STILL have 15k range and scouts STILL have more tight turning and that won't change.

Strikes need to kick like a mule (or harder then the T2 scout) if they can hit.

(check out the flavor text on the T2 scouts, which is supposed to have more offensive capability, the scout or the strike?)

[JasonSzeremi]

I'm noticing a pattern on the forums, just as in GSF chat, of people confusing builds with skill.

 

...

 

Making everything capable of killing everything even faster in a game where new players leave due to how fast they get killed seems like a bad idea for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it...

 

Right now the effort new players put into learning to fly a strike fighter isn't well rewarded, the fighter doesn't even live up the the billing it's given by the T2 scout's description.

 

Buffs to the strike give the noobs a fighting chance, although immunity to armor piercing might not help the T1 strike at all, it doesn't have an armor component., not sure how important shield piercing immunity is? proton torpedo's a big problem?

[Ryuku-sama]

I've been thinking about how I would like to see strike buffed a lot since this thread started. I don't know how much money/time Bioware is willing to let its devs invest into GSF so my suggestions may become impossible. I still feel this is one way we could see strike being competitive while having an option no ships (beside the three wannabe strikes, T2, T3 Gunship and T3 Bomber) have : versatility.

The scouts have many option avaible to them but only one true playstyle : "Kill fast or be killed". Sure, Sabo Charge gives them an alternative playstyle, but the main goal stay the same. EMP Field also gives another option.. A very subpar one. The T3 Scout has no playstyle of its own beyond Tensor Field and that's another problem.

T1 Gunship has only ONE effective build. T3 can be a decent gunship or an excellent strike (it outclasses every single strike). The T2 is rather weak due to many flaws.. One of them also affecting strikes being torpedoes.

T1 and T2 Bombers have their own playstyle and there is little to no variation in it. T3 Bomber have quite a few avaible playstyle but is plaggued by the same problems strikes face : Torpedoes and Concussion being underwhelming, evasion being extremely dominant and rather low mobility (even if it beat almost every strike on this point with Power Dive).

 

To fix these problem I would suggest a few wide buff to some components and to the strike chassis.

 

• Torpedoes arcs with the T4 increase should be the same as Concussion arcs. They pay enough by being easy to break and long to lock.
  
• Every missiles with cooldowns longer than Concussion's should have their cooldown reduced to Concussion's. All missile are restricted in many way, gating them through their cooldown isn't needed.
  
• EMP effects should have their effect widened to 7000m radius (and EMP field radius should be fixed)
  
• Ion Missile should get more powerful drains, slow and regen debuff. It does almost as much damage as a Concussion missile without the hull damage but doesn't gain any useful effect.... The slow is weaker than Concussion's and the regen debuff and drain are weak for a missile.
  
• Quick-Charge -30% shield should be reduced to -10%. -30% is way to high. It creates number of issues, including making starter ships squishier than needed. Also, the mobility increase isn't enough to justify such a huge shield loss.
  

 

 

To buff the strike chassis itself, I would suggest to implement a new component class : "Striker component". Strike are meant to be versatile ships. Giving sweeping buff to the chassis would eliminate this versatility and push most strike in very few builds.

Each strike would get 4 "Strike Components". The T1 would get two primary, one secondary and one mobility components. The T2 would get one primary, two secondary and one mobility components. And the T3 would get one primary, one secondary, one defensive and one mobility component.

Each of them would be a two tiers component with a 500/1500 cost.

 

Primary Components

 

• Laser Precision Mod : Gives primaries 12%/18% accuracy.
  
• Gun Telemetry Mod : Reduces primaries tracking by an extra 5%/10%.
  
• Gun Range Mod : Increases primaries range by 15%/25%.
  
• Gun Overcharge Mod : Increases primaries damage by 10%/15%.
  

 

Secondary Components

 

• Missile Locking Mod : Reduces missiles lock-on by 15%/25%.
  
• Missile Range Mod : Increases missiles range by 15%/25%.
  
• Extra Ammo Magazine : Increases missile capacity by 30%/50%.
  
• Telemetry Array Mod : Increase missiles arcs by 2/4 degrees.
  

 

Defensive Component

 

• On-board Repair : Repairs hull by 30/50 every 3s. (No CD, nothing.. Just a constant 50/3s hull)
  
• Quick Recharge Shield : Recharges shield by 100/150 every 3s.
  

 

Mobility Component

 

• Engine Efficiency Thruster : Decreases engine consumption by 10%/15%.
  
• Quick Manoeuver Thruster : Decreases engine component cooldown by 5/7s
  
• Turning Efficiency Thruster : Increase turning rate by 10%/15%.
  

 

 

In the end, giving some strikes some components would also help them quite a bit.

 

• T1 Strike could use BLC.
  
• T2 Strike should have acces to Interdiction.
  
• T3 Strike should have Concussion and HLC.
  

 

Edited June 3, 2015 by Ryuku-sama

[Linuxizer]

If Lights were buffed enough for both Strikes and scouts to take it, then this is a MASSIVE buff to strikes NOT a buff to Scouts.

 

I often use the LLC on the T1 Scout and I do not believe it should be buffed... but if it were, I'd be happy

 

those armored T2 scouts

...

Missiles likely still need their lock-on times halve or cut by 1 second (except clusters which are already fast enough missile breaks are almost useless against them) and cool down times cut in half, or even dropped all together

...

Any pilot who says 'but giving the strikes that kind of firepower makes scouts useless' forgets that scouts are not originally meant to dominate the field, they are meant to recon the field, send targeting data to other, ships

 

I'm sure no one chooses Deflection Armor on the T2 scout. You don't need armor-piercing weapon against a scout with Lightweight Armor or Reinforced Armor.

 

So, torpedoes with 2.0s lock and instant reload? Would GSF still be playable?

 

"Scout" is just a name, historically applied to WWI fighters. Ships in Episodes 4 to 6 inadvertently got a 1980s' techno look. So when Lucas made the Pre-quels, he gave the ships a 1950s' chrome look. "Scout" is then quite a good name for the Old Republic era. It does not mean the NovaDive, etc. should focus on reconnaissance instead of combat. With the way sensors are working, GSF does not need a ship to specialize in reconnaissance. The T1 and T3 Scouts can deploy a Sensor Beacon, which is nearly useless.

 

Concussion Missile (Range 9,900 meters Lock time 1.8 seconds reload time 5.5 seconds with "rapid reload" Engine shut down buff damage 1210ish)

Ion Missile (Range 9,900 Meters Lock on time 1.8 seconds Reload time 5.5 Seconds with "rapid Reload" slow buff)

 

This is way too good against T1 and T2 bombers... and everything else. I may be in the minority here. I want massive increase to primaries damage on Strikes, and basically no change to the secondaries. Missiles spoil this type of game. If I'm getting shot down, I'd rather get shot down by guns than by turrets, drones or missiles. It's a more personal touch. Does anyone here enjoy flying into a bomber nest with multiple Missile Sentry Drones?

 

Strike burst with a 50% primaries damage buff ... would produce a pretty harsh environment for new players. A more experienced pilot with 90% of a scout's burst but pretty much 100% uptime would be pretty monstrous at farming weak players.

 

Making any ship too overpowered will provide the issue of them suddenly being able to shred newbs with no effort. We see this with newbs complaining that gunships or t2 scouts ripped them apart before they can do anything about it. Making every ship too OP only compounds this issue further.

 

I don't think farming matches would get any worse... there's nearly no room to get worse. Buffing Strikes would make new players more potent, get more kills and gain experience more quickly.

[Neothanos]

My sugestion would be strengthen its Missele carrier role and or some shield strengthening

[HobbesToo]

If the Strike Fighter class is supposed to be so versatile, why don't they have all every Laser, Missile, Shield, & Engine option available?

[Altheran]

Didn't see this thread. Good thing I passed by today.

 

I'll post the changes I'd do first, I'll explain later. Don't be surprised if some of the changes are not related to Strike items, there's a reason (that some may not like).

 

TL;DR : Strike nights are fun. Regular play is frustrating. I want to preserve Strikes' style and performances in priority and bring others to similar level rather than simply buffing them and see how phat and frustrating they became.

 

Changes

 

I. Reform of cannons :

 

First, put Ion Cannon at 5000m

Then, make all cannons have 95% accuracy at their respective maximal range, and giving around 630 DPS (more or less depending on what damage per hit allows) to HLC, QLC and LLC (still at their respective max range).

Then make accuracy improve linearly up to 105% for HLC, 110% for QLC, 115% for LLC, at minimal range.

Then apply a linear damage increment of 20% for HLC, 40% for QLC, and 50% for LLC as range closes with min range.

Then, make other cannons with lesser tracking penalties (except Ion) have a similar damage and accuracy profile while preserving their original tracking penalties, the exception being that the raw damage is disminished so that it has the same expected damage once both these weapons and QLC/LLC have penalties applied to them at half of QLC/LLC firing arc at 100% base accuracy. (Exception made of BLC, doing that step based on RfLC instead of LLC)

Then adapting Ion Cannon as a carbon copy of Laser Cannon with x2 damage on shield, and /2 damage on hull.

Lastly, choosing new consumption rates according to rate of fire (unchanged rates), where the faster ones are the least consuming.

 

 

II. Particular changes

 

Cluster Missile : no Double Volley. Something else to put there

 

Rocket Pods : short CD

 

Targeting Telemetry : longer CD and no secondary weapon crit bonus.

 

Power Dive : 15s CD with maybe a symbolic 5 energy cost.

 

Distortion Field : no missile lock breaker. Something else to put there

 

Slug Railgun : 1200 damage

 

Mines : more consistant ratio between mine damage and missile damage of similar effect (more like Seismic/Proton, less than Conc Mine/Conc Missile).

 

Ion Railgun : less energy drain, no AoE

 

All raliguns : reduce tracking penalties to 2.5% per degrees

 

Ion Missile : better hull damage.

 

EMP missile : halved damage on ships only if AoE'd, full damage on direct hit.

 

Torpedoes : firing arc up by 2 degrees, firing arc upgrade downed to 2 degrees instead of 4.

 

FlashFire/Sting : drop the armor component for magazine or sensors.

 

 

The reasons :

 

 

The cannon reform is here mostly because choosing a short range cannon is almost always a wrong choice for all non Scout ships. All of them, including Strikes have troubles to stand at close ranges where these start to be accurate. As a result, it less worth to use LLC to fight around the 4000 m point than HLC despite the fact it's LLC intended purpose, and HLC's intended weakness. Cannons with 5000m and 4000m range should get better results much sooner, hence why they are more accurate at their maximal range.

Ion cannon is put at 5000m, because its stats have always been an almost carbon copy of Laser Cannon. By doing so they'd effectively become closer to each other. Also Ion Missile used to have lesser range than its brother Concussion Missile, and now have it equalized; ion Cannon deserves it too. And lastly about Ion Cannon, this cannon is supposed to be used along other weapons... Having it the lowest range possible actually hinder its usefulness.

The reform also aims to reevaluate Rapid fire Laser cannons, which on top of being universally bad is available to almost all strikes. It also have the purpose to nerf Burst Laser Cannons which are currently toxic, not only towards Strike, but everything.

 

 

All the other nerfs have the purpose to remove what forbids the Strike to be truly effective, because the Strike is actually effective, but the other overperforms them and outshines them and have various behaviour which are toxic on higher level that just towards Strikes.

I'd like to point that Strike nights are thought to be one of the most fun experiences, while the "good" Scout, Gunship, and Bomber builds frustrate the heck some people. As such, I believe that preserving the Strike style and feel is a top priority, and we'd get better from tuning others' to its level rather than tuning it to theirs.

 

The strikes' main problems at the moment are :

☐ their attack pattern is unreliable as it relies on missiles

☐ it's at least as fast to use anything else to kill enemies, when not extremely faster.

☐ their added resilience doesn't match the loss of damage.

And as genaral problems we have :

☐ regenerative gameplay has no place as burst is huge and common

 

Changes targeted at non Strike components such as Targeting Telemetry, Cluster Missile, and other weaopns are meant to slow down the pace of non-strike ships to be closer to their level as well as reduce the over abundance of extreme burst. This should as well reevaluate the resilence of Strikes.

I'd like to speak a bit about the Slug and other Gunship changes later, I am sure some would kill me for proposing that, and they'd probably right if I don't explain everything about it.

 

☐ their attack pattern is unreliable as it relies on missiles

☑ it's at least as fast to use anything else to kill enemies, when not extremely faster.

☑ their added resilience doesn't match the loss of damage.

☑ regenerative gameplay has no place as burst is huge and common

 

The changes of Distortion Field and Powerdive is meant to address specific issues with landing missiles. Strike nights, where everyone have (or had) just one 15s manoeuver are extremely fair and enjoyable. A second break and the shorter CD of Power Dive cripples dramatically the efficiency of missiles, on which Strikes rely a lot.

I'd like to point too that Power Dive has reached unbelieveble level of bogus right now, where a Strike with Koiogan or Barrel Roll would reach B of Denon completely exhausted, while a T3 Bomber (worse engines in theory) could reach the sat quicker, and with power left thanks to Power Dive.

 

☑ their attack pattern is unreliable as it relies on missiles

☑ it's at least as fast to use anything else to kill enemies, when not extremely faster.

☑ their added resilience doesn't match the loss of damage.

☑ regenerative gameplay has no place as burst is huge and common

 

There are also a few buffs, that are not necessarily strike related on Ion missiles and EMP missiles, but since they are available on most Strike fighters, and they... well... suck, I think it was worth adding.

 

 

Now, let's talk about the changes concerning Gunships that I put in this suggestion. They are extreme I know.

But the thing is given the current amplitude of Slug, it kills indeterminately Scouts, Strikes and Bombers under the same number of hits. By itself, this weapon make moot the choice of being a Strike, and is the bread and butter of Gunships. In addition, its damage level on top of being extremely burstly and able to instakill when coincidental focus happens, allows them to provide the same level of pressure than a strike, without various downside of Strikes. As long as Slug railgun will damage like it does for now, Strike will not have a place. Period.

 

Also, the level of wrongness is even bigger :

- Why is Plasma not worth ? Because the damage is almost the same.

- Why Ion is that crippling and doing things of the realm of EMP's ? Because shield damage alone is not so interesting given how high Slug is.

- Why is the Comet Breaker never worth ? Because it exceeds by far what a Torpedo could do.

Slug, in addition to jeopardizing Strike role, flaws the Gunship themselves.

 

Make Slug deal 1200, and these flaws are solvable. Now the thing is that it would shuffle the Scout/Gunship balance. That's why I suggest the tracking penalties (of all Rails) to be reduced in exchange, I think it would be a good offset, since they hardly miss Strikes and Bomber anyway.

Ideally, since 2 of 3 Gunships can play like pseudo Strikes, I'd wish they would be treated as Strikes, having similar mobility and HP... But that may be inappropriate given the Gunship generally have a full engine pool when someone come to get them. Unless something is changed in that regard, it may be a wrong thing to do.

 

 

The reason for the drastical change towards Flashfire and Sting is the a bit similar. They are an oddball, the only Scout with both Armor and Reactor while being offensive. The only thing they lose is a magazine or sensor, of little use for them. They end completely overpowering the other Scout.

Where are Strikes in there ? Well, having both these component improves the Scout survivabilty to similar levels than offensive Strikes (Starguard/Pike). So that Scout is as survivable as them, while having all the cheese for being a Scout : better speed, more oomph...

Like Slug, as long as this Scout has both these components the Strike place will be jeopardized.

 

 

 

With this it covers almost all issues that I think I have indentified with GSF, not only Strikes. There are few things I think could be added, but are not related to strikes (or very indirectly)...

I don't expect people to agree with this. I already argued too much with some people thinking that it's the Strike that should be upped, or other that think that we should never nerf, only buff.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Altheran

[tunewalker]

I often use the LLC on the T1 Scout and I do not believe it should be buffed... but if it were, I'd be happy

 

 

 

I'm sure no one chooses Deflection Armor on the T2 scout. You don't need armor-piercing weapon against a scout with Lightweight Armor or Reinforced Armor.

 

So, torpedoes with 2.0s lock and instant reload? Would GSF still be playable?

 

"Scout" is just a name, historically applied to WWI fighters. Ships in Episodes 4 to 6 inadvertently got a 1980s' techno look. So when Lucas made the Pre-quels, he gave the ships a 1950s' chrome look. "Scout" is then quite a good name for the Old Republic era. It does not mean the NovaDive, etc. should focus on reconnaissance instead of combat. With the way sensors are working, GSF does not need a ship to specialize in reconnaissance. The T1 and T3 Scouts can deploy a Sensor Beacon, which is nearly useless.

 

 

 

This is way too good against T1 and T2 bombers... and everything else. I may be in the minority here. I want massive increase to primaries damage on Strikes, and basically no change to the secondaries. Missiles spoil this type of game. If I'm getting shot down, I'd rather get shot down by guns than by turrets, drones or missiles. It's a more personal touch. Does anyone here enjoy flying into a bomber nest with multiple Missile Sentry Drones?

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think farming matches would get any worse... there's nearly no room to get worse. Buffing Strikes would make new players more potent, get more kills and gain experience more quickly.

 

 

On the whole Primaries vs Secondaries thing.....

 

What does a Bomber use to kill... Mines and drones (secondaries and Systems)

What does a Gunship use to kill..... Railguns (Secondaries)

What does a scout use to kill...... Primaries, TT and Clusters or Rocket pods (Primaries, Secondaries AND Systems)

The Strikes only secondary is missiles.... they should be an effective secondary. I am kind of chuckling at the idea you think that the missiles will kill the bombers, especially the T1 that has charged plating. When the way I set those missiles up in THAT build was they didnt armor pierce the Primary did. All that would happen with one of those missiles hitting was shield stripping.... the Primaries (the thing you prefer dieing to) would be the thing that kills. Missiles NEED to be effective against enemies for Strike play to FEEL good. If secondaries werent meant to be used, then the strike shouldnt HAVE secondaries even MORE SO.... a T2 strike shouldnt have the option to Swap between them. Its the ONLY thing that strike has going for it. If I were to make a mock T1 strike build with my suggestions you can GARANTEE that I would be abusing its ability to swap lasers. If I was making a Mock T3 build you can garantee I would be abusing its tankiness, but that was a T2 strike who is a missile boat with my suggestions i BETTER be able to abuse its missiles.

 

Edit: also does it need to be effective against every ship? yes, the gunship is, it may not be great against every ship but its effective. The Scout deffinately is. Having a strike that is ALSO effective against everyship is a GOOD strike. Does it sound "op" you know what GOOD.

 

like I said if you want a strike to be effective it needs the near speed of a scout (it doesnt have it) it needs the Near range of a Gunship (it doesnt have it) and it needs the near toughness of a Bomber (it doesnt have it). It has NONE of the 3 elements neccisary for a Generalist ship.

Edited June 3, 2015 by tunewalker

[CommanderKiko]

instead of focusing on firepower, I feel we could solve a lot of problems by turning strikers into legit tanks.

 

Newbs hate dying super fast, strikers lack balance due to how fast they die, their lack of bursty-ness, and their lack of power pools. Make strikers insanely hard to kill, and all these issues are nullified - save their rockets being all-but-useless. With seriously upped defenses, strikers could be effective and competitive for spooking gunships and clearing bomber entrenchments, and scouts wouldn't want to waste their time/energy trying to kill them. Further, newbs would actually feel somewhat useful.

 

It's an idea.

Edited June 3, 2015 by CommanderKiko

[Nemarus]

instead of focusing on firepower, I feel we could solve a lot of problems by turning strikers into legit tanks.

 

Newbs hate dying super fast, strikers lack balance due to how fast they die, their lack of bursty-ness, and their lack of power pools. Make strikers insanely hard to kill, and all these issues are nullified - save their rockets being all-but-useless. With seriously upped defenses, strikers could be effective and competitive for spooking gunships and clearing bomber entrenchments, and scouts wouldn't want to waste their time/energy trying to kill them. Further, newbs would actually feel somewhat useful.

 

It's an idea.

 

You can already make an extreme tank Clarion in two different ways:

 

Repair Probes | Directional Shield | E2S Converter | Turbo Reactor | Deflection Armor

 

It's shields have huge capacity and regenerate very quickly. Repair Probes heals hull damage attrition suffered from shield piercing damage.

 

Put it on a node and it is very, very hard to get off without Seismic Mines.

 

Alternatively, if you want to be safer against mines (but less safe against Slugs and BLC's), then you can go:

 

Repair Probes | Charged Plating | E2S Converter | Turbo Reactor | Deflection Armor

 

The problem is it has no capability except to block capture of a node, and it usually can't get there in time to do so, nor can it really kill anything once it gets there.

 

Sure, we could make all Strikes have ludicrous shields and hull points, so that newbies would at least have time to fly around, but they'd never kill anything.

[CommanderKiko]

Wouldn't that, at the very least, increase interest in the game? Sure they may never get any kills, but the fact that they could actually hit things, and not die instantly, would grant them assists. They might feel like they were doing something. On a starguard and pike - ships that already have some amount of manuverability and firepower albeit lacking compared to other classes - we may see them actually become viable, competitive craft. With the extra plus side of more pops due to newbs not just giving up right away. If done properly, it wouldn't even unbalance the game, but it would shake up the meta a bit.

 

IDK for sure, but that might just be the best option all around. The most benefit with the fewest drawbacks? Feel free to correct me if I'm way off the mark.

[clcooper]

do away with all of the buffs on all the ships . and make them do the job they were designed to do . make all the same type of cannon . gun , missile the same on all the ships . make the cannon ,gun , missile fit the ship also . don't put a rail gun on a scout .don't put mines on a gun ship .

I think the way it is . Is good just fix the numbers . %, to fit the weapon . or if to fit the ship . don't make it bigger or smaller then what it would really be on

any thing that does more then 10% lower it to under 10% no upgrade or buff should give more then 10% and some should not even give that much .

 

 

Is this The Larry , Curly , and Moe show . I see the same people talking . saying what THEY want done .And when somebody new comes in and says what they see and think would be better for GSF . Larry Curly or Moe come back and tell them they are wrong and this is only about buffing the strike fighter . No wonder the new players don't stay .

 

The problem is it has no capability except to block capture of a node, and it usually can't get there in time to do so, nor can it really kill anything once it gets there.

 

Sure, we could make all Strikes have ludicrous shields and hull points, so that newbies would at least have time to fly around, but they'd never kill anything[.

. as you see it is not just the newbies that cant kill something in a strike it is the older players . so will a buff up help .maybe the other ships that got buffed need to be buffed down . or should we keep putting a band aid on the problem . then some day GSF will never be fixable

 

and why is it that way . because the other ships have cried and got buffs . and the buffs where to much .

 

If you that think that the newbies cant kill anything is because they don't know how to fly . show them how it is done . Get in a un upgraded ship and show them . oh that is right you have been around so you know this crew member is the best . and all the rest are just for suckers to use .maybe some might listen and learn that it is not that the new player are not trying. it is that the game is so buffed they cant hit anything

 

maybe instead of buffing the strike fighter you learn how to fly it yourself .like so many tell the new players .

 

but Larry Curly and Moe will get their way and nothing in GSF will really change . other then the strike fighter will be the only un beatable ship then . and then the next ship will be crying they need a buff . . and so on . stop it now and fix it right now and the new players will still only play one match and never come back . so keep up the good work

[tunewalker]

instead of focusing on firepower, I feel we could solve a lot of problems by turning strikers into legit tanks.

 

Newbs hate dying super fast, strikers lack balance due to how fast they die, their lack of bursty-ness, and their lack of power pools. Make strikers insanely hard to kill, and all these issues are nullified - save their rockets being all-but-useless. With seriously upped defenses, strikers could be effective and competitive for spooking gunships and clearing bomber entrenchments, and scouts wouldn't want to waste their time/energy trying to kill them. Further, newbs would actually feel somewhat useful.

 

It's an idea.

 

On the whole "its an idea thing"

 

I am going to shamelessly self premote my ideas again

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8228034&postcount=348 Follow the links and you may be surprised, one of the things that I mentioned in addition to slightly more accurate short range weapons and more reliable secondaries was a huge boost to Strike fighter Shield components as well as a 20% hull increase. Because I agree making a strike tougher is a good thing. Yes the clarion can already be pretty tough, but I dont think its tough enough for all the offense it gives up. The other 2 strikes are DEFFINATELY not tough enough. My suggest is actually more reliable Secondaries, fixing bad primaries they have access to, increasing survivability, and increasing mobility. People have won me over on the range thing, but again my ideal is Nearly as fast as a scout, nearly as tough as a bomber, and nearly the same range as a gunship for one monster of a generalist.

 

If any one wants I can take my changes and show what a stock Starguard would look like.

[tunewalker]

do away with all of the buffs on all the ships . and make them do the job they were designed to do . make all the same type of cannon . gun , missile the same on all the ships . make the cannon ,gun , missile fit the ship also . don't put a rail gun on a scout .don't put mines on a gun ship .

I think the way it is . Is good just fix the numbers . %, to fit the weapon . or if to fit the ship . don't make it bigger or smaller then what it would really be on

any thing that does more then 10% lower it to under 10% no upgrade or buff should give more then 10% and some should not even give that much .

 

 

Is this The Larry , Curly , and Moe show . I see the same people talking . saying what THEY want done .And when somebody new comes in and says what they see and think would be better for GSF . Larry Curly or Moe come back and tell them they are wrong and this is only about buffing the strike fighter . No wonder the new players don't stay .

 

 

. as you see it is not just the newbies that cant kill something in a strike it is the older players . so will a buff up help .maybe the other ships that got buffed need to be buffed down . or should we keep putting a band aid on the problem . then some day GSF will never be fixable

 

and why is it that way . because the other ships have cried and got buffs . and the buffs where to much .

 

If you that think that the newbies cant kill anything is because they don't know how to fly . show them how it is done . Get in a un upgraded ship and show them . oh that is right you have been around so you know this crew member is the best . and all the rest are just for suckers to use .maybe some might listen and learn that it is not that the new player are not trying. it is that the game is so buffed they cant hit anything

 

maybe instead of buffing the strike fighter you learn how to fly it yourself .like so many tell the new players .

 

but Larry Curly and Moe will get their way and nothing in GSF will really change . other then the strike fighter will be the only un beatable ship then . and then the next ship will be crying they need a buff . . and so on . stop it now and fix it right now and the new players will still only play one match and never come back . so keep up the good work

 

As far as I know, no ship has recieved a buff since the game launched, only nerfs (there were nerfs to engine maneuvers and Mines and so on and so forth). There havent been any buffs in GSF yet, this is the first talk of potential Buffs since the game launched almost 2 years ago.

 

 

For those that dont know the Meta went from 2 ships to 3 ships to where it is now around 6 ships with just a couple nerfs. This isnt ground game pvp we dont get nerfs or buffs very often, but thus far every time we HAVE gotten them its been mostly for the better of the game, and most of the time it was nerfs not buffs.

Edited June 3, 2015 by tunewalker

[CommanderKiko]

On the whole "its an idea thing"

 

I am going to shamelessly self premote my ideas again

 

-snip-

 

If any one wants I can take my changes and show what a stock Starguard would look like.

 

Indeed, you did already make this point along side many others. I shamelessly stole it and made the same point, but standing on it's own. Also, throwing down any evidence one can would probably help the dev's visualize the practical implications of what each of us is suggesting.

[Damidez]

One thing we used to have on the Ebon Hawk server was a community-organized Strike Night (credit goes to Nemarus). These nights were fantastic to fly in, because most of the pilots weren't flying the ships that can pretty easily counter Strike Fighters. We usually had a couple people that didn't know or didn't want to participate, but mostly the teams were flush with strikers. The matches were very intense and satisfying in the dog-fighting sense; there was really no one who could sneak in and say "whoops, you're dead!"

 

Maybe something to consider would be a regular GSF event where the only ships allowed on your bar during a certain time are strikers, and you or your group couldn't queue if anyone had a non-striker loaded. like one day a fortnight or month? Anyway, I miss Strike Night, and I think people might have a different feel for the ships if they participated in something like it.

 

Regarding the ships themselves, I have seen some suggestions here that I think are great (haven't read the whole thread yet; sorry!). I like the idea of increasing Strikers hull, shields, and accuracy a little, and increasing their blaster power pool a fair bit.

 

Another idea I just thought of: There was at one time some stealth capability being worked on, yes? Maybe one of the strikes could have a short-duration cloak ability to use. Short.

[Drakkolich]

As far as I know, no ship has recieved a buff since the game launched, only nerfs (there were nerfs to engine maneuvers and Mines and so on and so forth). There havent been any buffs in GSF yet, this is the first talk of potential Buffs since the game launched almost 2 years ago.

 

 

For those that dont know the Meta went from 2 ships to 3 ships to where it is now around 6 ships with just a couple nerfs. This isnt ground game pvp we dont get nerfs or buffs very often, but thus far every time we HAVE gotten them its been mostly for the better of the game, and most of the time it was nerfs not buffs.

 

- The Rotational Thrusters Component now has a max range of 15,000m. Patch 2.5.2

- The area of effect damage from Ion Railgun Component’s tier 4B upgrade is now still applied even if the attack destroys the primary target. Patch 2.5.2

- The “Increased Range” upgrade for Sabotage Probe, Cluster Missiles, Concussion Missiles, and Ion Missiles now features a 10% increase. Patch 2.6

- Thermite Torpedoes have had their range increased to 10000m Patch 2.6

- Ion Missiles have had their range increased to 7000m Patch 2.6

- Crew abilities “Running Interference” and “Wingman” have had their area of effect ranges increased from 1000m to 3000m. Patch 2.6

- Charged Plating now allows 40% of the damage done to it to bleed through to the hull, down from 50%. Its shield capacity has been lowered from 150% to 130%. Patch 2.6

- EMP Field’s “Missile Lock Immunity” upgrade now cancels in-progress missile locks when it is activated. Patch 2.7

- The Power cost of Power Dive has been reduced. Patch 2.7

- Feedback Shield’s damage has been increased and now correctly activates off of Primary Weapon attacks. Patch 2.8

- Fortress Shield now increases shield strength by 130%. Patch 2.8

 

 

Plenty of Component buffs have happened in the past!

[clcooper]

As far as I know, no ship has recieved a buff since the game launched, only nerfs (there were nerfs to engine maneuvers and Mines and so on and so forth). There havent been any buffs in GSF yet, this is the first talk of potential Buffs since the game launched almost 2 years ago.

 

For those that dont know the Meta went from 2 ships to 3 ships to where it is now around 6 ships with just a couple nerfs. This isnt ground game pvp we dont get nerfs or buffs very often, but thus far every time we HAVE gotten them its been mostly for the better of the game, and most of the time it was nerfs not buffs.

 

and did you read anything else that I wrote . or did you just have to show how much more bigger you think your pp is then mine .

 

what you said did not need to be said . remember this is ONLY about buffing up the strike fighters .

like I said the Larry Curly and Moe show

 

THE WHOLE GSF NEEDS FIXED . can you ,do you understand that or is it that some are afraid to find out that they are not the top ace . they think they are .

what part don't you understand that a new player cant hit anything . not because they are not trying it is because of all the fairy tale make believe junk .a gun that says it has 86 % accuracy should be that 86 % but when they get in the game and fly the true accuracy is more like 10 % to 20 % and to get more accuracy they need to stand on their heads use their left foot and push ctrl shift and a and p keys all at the same time . all that just to make 1 hit . if they want to kill something . then they need to do all that plus fart, burp. and also have the best of any computer that was just made the day before . even if the computer is week old to bad . you don't deserve to make any kills either .

 

even a gun that has 100% accuracy still doesn't have 100% accuracy in the game it is like 10% to 20% accuracy in the game it is this that needs fixed . make stuff do what is says it does . if it has 96% accuracy make it have 96% accuracy . if you have to do anything else to do to get 96% acc. that say that . if you need this crew member to get 965 acc . then say that that gun only has 85% acc . but with the crew member you can get 86 % acc.

 

 

in the tutorial you can aim at a mine . you can fire on the mine and you can destroy the mine . ok good . you know how to aim and to shoot . now go into a match you aim you shoot . and you do no damage you don't even make a hit . you go back to the tutorial and you aim and shoot you destroy the mine . you go back into a match you aim and shoot . still do no damage and not even a hit . do you see something wrong I do . .

 

so if a top ace cant hit or kill anything with a strike fighter . then that means something is wrong . Are the other ships over powered ?? (I fixed it instead of buffed ) so instead of giving more power to the strikes why not de power the other ships that are over powered .

but it will not be fixed right because the top guys will cry .because they will find out they are really not the top guy .

[tunewalker]

Ok so here is what a Stock Strike would look like, I am going to do pub side (IE pub side companions) for my own ease.

 

 

T1 strike

Hull 1760

Shields 1800

Shield Regen 198/sec (90 +120%... 90% from quick charge and 30% from companion) (edited to show the correct value)

Shield Power regen Delay (4.6 seconds)

5% DR

10% evasion (again I am assuming starting Republic GSF crew)

 

 

 

Rapid Fire lasers (range 6240 meters Accuracy was increased by 10%, dps increased by 5% and RoF decreased by 25% in addition to a drop in Tracking penalty by .5 degrees, down to .3, basically every stat here is with my 22 suggestions newer players will be able to hit more consistantly, and have their hits be more meaningful and impactful.... the 240 is because of the range capacitor that stock ships start with)

Heavy lasers (range 8,360 meters no other change... again range capacitor for the 360)

Concussion Missile (Range 9,000 meters 2 second Lock time 5.5 second CD with the starting companions and a 10% damage boost, they will do about 15% more DPS then on live and will be again much more reliable, bringing them much closer to stock Clusters)

the rest of it is basically covered or not much of a meaning to cover it here.

 

1 thing to realize is that the strike has 3,560 health total... if in power to engines or weapons its 3,380 both of these are high enough that even a DO slug will no longer 1 shot with out a crit. This extra survivability on a new player can be huge. Next the weapons dont really kill any faster, but they are much more reliable closing the gap a little between a new player and a decent player or Ace. the New player will still OBVIOUSLY be at a Disadvantage, but it will be a little smaller. Also as far as Engine efficiency goes. technically this new player should have about as much engine efficiency as a Disto scout, if not a little better, but the new player wont know how to utilize that honestly, but still a ship that picks up a shield for some engine efficiency and gives up some survival should be rewarded.

 

 

 

For a Scout player

Hull 950

Shields 1300

Shield Regen 143/sec (65 +120%)

Shield power regen delay 6

DR 0%

Evasion 18%

 

 

Rapid Fire lasers (Range remains the same, but accuracy is still 10% larger and tracking penalty still .5 smaller as well as rate of fire being 25% slower and damage still 5% larger these ships still have a much more reliable and deadly weapon against any ship they go up against)

 

Again we are looking at a starting ship that has been helped quite a bit, because of its system ability as well as ALSO having quick charge AND barrel roll it can still outrun or close on a new strike pretty easily, thanks to Rocket pods it can even do greater damage, but it sacrifices very real defensive strength for this advantage. Though its defenses are still better then they are on live.

Edited June 4, 2015 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

and did you read anything else that I wrote . or did you just have to show how much more bigger you think your pp is then mine .

 

what you said did not need to be said . remember this is ONLY about buffing up the strike fighters .

like I said the Larry Curly and Moe show

 

THE WHOLE GSF NEEDS FIXED . can you ,do you understand that or is it that some are afraid to find out that they are not the top ace . they think they are .

what part don't you understand that a new player cant hit anything . not because they are not trying it is because of all the fairy tale make believe junk .a gun that says it has 86 % accuracy should be that 86 % but when they get in the game and fly the true accuracy is more like 10 % to 20 % and to get more accuracy they need to stand on their heads use their left foot and push ctrl shift and a and p keys all at the same time . all that just to make 1 hit . if they want to kill something . then they need to do all that plus fart, burp. and also have the best of any computer that was just made the day before . even if the computer is week old to bad . you don't deserve to make any kills either .

 

even a gun that has 100% accuracy still doesn't have 100% accuracy in the game it is like 10% to 20% accuracy in the game it is this that needs fixed . make stuff do what is says it does . if it has 96% accuracy make it have 96% accuracy . if you have to do anything else to do to get 96% acc. that say that . if you need this crew member to get 965 acc . then say that that gun only has 85% acc . but with the crew member you can get 86 % acc.

 

 

in the tutorial you can aim at a mine . you can fire on the mine and you can destroy the mine . ok good . you know how to aim and to shoot . now go into a match you aim you shoot . and you do no damage you don't even make a hit . you go back to the tutorial and you aim and shoot you destroy the mine . you go back into a match you aim and shoot . still do no damage and not even a hit . do you see something wrong I do . .

 

so if a top ace cant hit or kill anything with a strike fighter . then that means something is wrong . Are the other ships over powered ?? (I fixed it instead of buffed ) so instead of giving more power to the strikes why not de power the other ships that are over powered .

but it will not be fixed right because the top guys will cry .because they will find out they are really not the top guy .

 

Ok now what you are talking about isnt "buffs" but evasion vs accuracy. Accuracy does what it says... but guess what so does evasion, if some one were to read some of my suggestions one of the BIGGIES is to buff the starting weapons specifically rapid fires so that new players can actually do something.

 

I am not a "top ace" pilot, but I love strikes and I can kill any one in a strike, sure they might kill me more in something else or i might be killed more, I dont think any pilot here is saying they can never kill anything in a strike its more a strike is unreliable... which is exactly what you are complaining about. Many of our suggestions is to help things become more reliable and to feed new players and old players alike much more useful information as well as giving new players more reliable weapons as well as giving old pilots more reliable weapons especially on a strike which is not on the same competitive level as the ships with more evasion or the ability to reliably hit with their secondaries. I read just fine, but I dont see any suggestions in your post other then to rework and redo the whole system. Which I dont want, not because some how I will be exposed for the noob "Flight simulator" player that I am.... because I am, I dont want a flight simulator, I am perfectly happy with the MMORPG (Massive multi-player Online Role Playing game) arcade shooter that I am playing, I just want a balance pass to make the ship that isnt as effective more effective for ALL levels of play just like the devs want.

 

 

Drak was right though, I am brain dead and do forget that buffs have happened, though to be fair nerfs have as well. Still this is an MMO and like ground pvp buffs and nerfs are a common thing. Balance isnt going to be perfect, but 1 thing I do love so far about our GSF devs, when they are here and doing stuff for GSF balance, they have been able to pretty consistantly deepen the GSF meta.

 

 

Edit: I will say I appoligize for any confusion we may have, but it is very difficult to understand what you are trying to say. I am getting lost with the way some of your sentences are set up and some of the terms you use..... trying to stay on the same page....... Also I dont know if you have or have not done this, but I think you may need to turn on detailed tool tips, because part of the "bad accuracy" thing is tracking penalties which you cant see with simple tool tips (Which I think is STUPID that simple tool tips is turned on by default with out explaining the strengths and weakenesses of a weapon in the text in any way, how the hell is a player supposed to know they have better accuracy at closer ranges then max ranges, or how they hell are they supposed to know that shooting towards the center of their arc instead of at the edge will produce better results with out looking it up online, but those are other issues. Hell I could go into a MASSIVE rant about tutorials for this game mode and how unhelpful it is for new players, but that isnt what this thread is meant to be about.

Edited June 3, 2015 by tunewalker

[CommanderKiko]

Ok so here is what a Stock Strike would look like, I am going to do pub side (IE pub side companions) for my own ease.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Something like that would be a great first - or only - step indeed. Improving the striker overall for both new and old. Also saying "hey, there actually is a major difference in play styles here" to new players and making strikers more playable without being OP. Strikers would get the attention they need, and we could use that to generate more interest as an excellent side effect.

[Ciczog]

Thought I'd throw my thoughts into the ring on this one. I've read a few posts but couldn't be bothered with 37 pages, so apologies if I've repeated what someone's said.

 

The only joy I really have out of strike fighters is as a tanky healer, where at least there is a role it can play. Despite that, I don't think the Strike Fighters need much of a buff at all. I think the SF has no place at the moment because it should be the best dogfighter, but it's not because the dogfighting scouts do so much damage.

 

I would envisage a balance where scouts scouted & skirmished, but get chased off once the troops (SF's) arrived. Scouts role should be to get places first, disrupt gunships and maybe a few other tactical jobs.

 

I think if you reduced the hitting power of the flashfire & the sting, and increased the turning rate of the Rycer (ultimate imperial dogfighter it says in description) and starguard so they had the advantage in an up close fight, then every ship would have it's place.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Ciczog
correcting ship name

[tunewalker]

Something like that would be a great first - or only - step indeed. Improving the striker overall for both new and old. Also saying "hey, there actually is a major difference in play styles here" to new players and making strikers more playable without being OP. Strikers would get the attention they need, and we could use that to generate more interest as an excellent side effect.

 

I made a slight calculation issue when calculating Strike Regen Rates... that would be 150% regen rate (IE with Quick charge shields second upgrade again reminder I increased all shield regen buffs by double, because lets face it + shield regen... SUCKS) the 120% is 198/sec, my bad... if any one wants to see an upgraded T1 strike build vs that just let me know, I did already show my altered upgraded T2 strike so we can always use that to.

Edited June 4, 2015 by tunewalker