Kaggath tournament & faction discussion thread

[Selenial]

I didn't mean that she would be worried about her PC ships fitting, I meant her standard fighters would be restricted to the amount of ships the Valor can carry, as she doesn't get fighters for her other two like most other factions would.

 

Ahh, well you're right on that front.

 

I'd say it depended on which Generals Rayla goes with, if you're wondering if it would work. That's my only concern at the moment, actually.

[ShadowMudkip]

Ahh, well you're right on that front.

 

I'd say it depended on which Generals Rayla goes with, if you're wondering if it would work. That's my only concern at the moment, actually.

 

Technically, her faction could work very well; if it is utilized correctly. In a straight up war, she would lose versus any competent faction. However, could her faction successfully wage a hit and run/skirmish type war, then she could very well win.

[Selenial]

Technically, her faction could work very well; if it is utilized correctly. In a straight up war, she would lose versus any competent faction. However, could her faction successfully wage a hit and run/skirmish type war, then she could very well win.

Which is what that leadership is designed for, but I worry it's not enough.

 

For example, take Lando. He's similar to Rayla's tacticians in a way. He was a General, and he helped organise the assault on the Death Star and Echo Base. He's a brilliant tactician, but slap him on a bridge or in a command bunker and tell him to organise a fleet battle or war, and he'd fall short IMO. It's the same here, all the player characters are smart and can organise infiltration missions, or brilliantly lead a starfighter squadron, they're not the fleet battle or galactic scale conflict types.

 

And while hit and run is all well and good, you need generals who can actually fight the fleet battles, even if you're the one choosing to engage in them.

[ShadowMudkip]

Which is what that leadership is designed for, but I worry it's not enough.

 

For example, take Lando. He's similar to Rayla's tacticians in a way. He was a General, and he helped organise the assault on the Death Star and Echo Base. He's a brilliant tactician, but slap him on a bridge or in a command bunker and tell him to organise a fleet battle or war, and he'd fall short IMO. It's the same here, all the player characters are smart and can organise infiltration missions, or brilliantly lead a starfighter squadron, they're not the fleet battle or galactic scale conflict types.

 

And while hit and run is all well and good, you need generals who can actually fight the fleet battles, even if you're the one choosing to engage in them.

 

 

Agreed, the best generals for the Classic mode kaggath are the ones who can plan around the big picture. This is why people like Traya, Grevious, and Revan are among the best tacticians for this particular Kaggath mode. It's also why I'm reluctant to drop Grevious for a lightside faction, as there really is no substitute for him.

[tunewalker]

Agreed, the best generals for the Classic mode kaggath are the ones who can plan around the big picture. This is why people like Traya, Grevious, and Revan are among the best tacticians for this particular Kaggath mode. It's also why I'm reluctant to drop Grevious for a lightside faction, as there really is no substitute for him.

 

I think obi-wan could be a good substitute for him.... if no one has taken him, but that's my opinion.

[LadyKulvax]

Meteor is a trained tactical genius and is good enough to take over any situation, Barsen'thor and Hero have both led battles and formed strategies. But this is all something I am already writing up, they are surprisingly good leaders actually.

[ShadowMudkip]

Meteor is a trained tactical genius and is good enough to take over any situation, Barsen'thor and Hero have both led battles and formed strategies. But this is all something I am already writing up, they are surprisingly good leaders actually.

 

Its not their ability, but their area of expertise thats the problem. For smaller strike teams, offenses, or single battles, they would do absolutely fantastic. However, in a war, where one half is naval tactics on a large scale, they simply can't compete. They can't do the large scale tactics that would put them on the same stage as Grevious, Revan, Traya, Ackbar, Daala, Antilles, etc. For Battlegrounds mode they would do better, but not for classical mode.

[LadyKulvax]

Honestly I am agreeing with a Revan ban, he has some ridiculously good battle-sized powers, give him a Dark Sise nexus like Malachor or Yavin and he can corrupt every Jedi in your army. He literally summoned the dark energies of Malachor V from the planet and drowned his Jedi in it, corrupting them all.

[LadyKulvax]

Its not their ability, but their area of expertise thats the problem. For smaller strike teams, offenses, or single battles, they would do absolutely fantastic. However, in a war, where one half is naval tactics on a large scale, they simply can't compete. They can't do the large scale tactics that would put them on the same stage as Grevious, Revan, Traya, Ackbar, Daala, Antilles, etc. For Battlegrounds mode they would do better, but not for classical mode.

 

Barsen'thor led the entire Rift Alliance Coalition Forces as the primary commander and won battles with her strategies.

Meteor led a massive campaign for the Special Forces Division which included outsmarting and capturing the Sith Empire's greatest ground commander.

Hero led anti-Sith campaigns that destroyed large powerbases.

Cipher Nine is herself an expert at adapting strategies and outwitting guys like Darth Jadus.

 

This is not including the many feats they can be accredited with against the Hutts, Dread Masters, Revanites and so many more. They are veterans of the Galactic War and I shall prove this in the Kaggath.

[ShadowMudkip]

I think obi-wan could be a good substitute for him.... if no one has taken him, but that's my opinion.

 

Sorry I should have clarified, there is no substitute that is non force sensitive. Thats what I like best about Grevious, is that he has the capability of a top tier strategist, with the skills to also do battle, while also not taking up a force user slot.

[ShadowMudkip]

So I came up with a better faction since it looks like Vader might be banned.

 

 

Head of State: Darth Malgus

Second in Command: General Grievous

Allys: Durge and Darth Maul

 

Support:

 

Supplier: (Trade Federation/Commerce Guild/Techno Union/Banking Clan/Santhe Sienar Tech)

 

Organization: Inquisitorious (Prakith)

 

Military:

 

Ground: Sith Trooper/Great War era

Bx-Series Droid Commandos

Naval:

Light Capital Ship: Terminus class destroyer

Light Capital Ship: Harrower class dreadnought

Heavy Capital Ship: Providence class carrier/destroyer

 

Fighters:

Fighter Class: Vulture Droids

Bomber Class: Hyena Bombers

Elite Class: Fury Class Imperial interceptors

 

 

Territory:

Capital: ??

Stronghold: Malgus’ Space Station

Stronghold: Korriban

Organization World: Prakith

 

 

I don't have a capital world, and I am still deciding between the four suppliers up top.

Edited August 10, 2015 by ShadowMudkip

[Selenial]

Vader and Krayt shouldn't be banned tbh. Neither should Talzin.

 

Revan's a whole other matter though...

 

Edit: And what's with everyone taking Malgus' station. That's not a planet, it's a tiny station barely larger than a capital ship that can travel through hyperspace, stealth, and annihilate fleets. The thing is a *********** superweapon. If y'all get that, I want the Eclipse II.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Selenial

[ShadowMudkip]

Vader and Krayt shouldn't be banned tbh. Neither should Talzin.

 

Revan's a whole other matter though...

 

Edit: And what's with everyone taking Malgus' station. That's not a planet, it's a tiny station barely larger than a capital ship that can travel through hyperspace, stealth, and annihilate fleets. The thing is a *********** superweapon. If y'all get that, I want the Eclipse II.

 

That's too many asterisks for me to determine your colorful phrase.

 

EDIT: you have to admit its on the same level of cheese as Traya+Malachor V.

Edited August 10, 2015 by ShadowMudkip

[Selenial]

That's too many asterisks for me to determine your colorful phrase.

 

EDIT: you have to admit its on the same level of cheese as Traya+Malachor V.

 

Perhaps, but I worked to get that combo winning, and it took a damn long time. Malgus' space station is just.... Too easy

Edited August 10, 2015 by Selenial

[Aurbere]

So, why is Revan getting banned?

[Beniboybling]

Nobody's getting banned folks (aside from probably Talzin) not sure what we're getting excited about.

[Aurbere]

Nobody's getting banned folks (aside from probably Talzin) not sure what we're getting excited about.

 

Gewd. People jumping the gun

[Selenial]

Nobody's getting banned folks (aside from probably Talzin) not sure what we're getting excited about.

 

So you're banning someone who can kill another across the galaxy via immense amounts of preparation.... But leaving someone who can corrupt an entire fleet using the Dark Side?

 

#BeniLogic

[Aurbere]

Sel. Stop.

 

I wants Revan.

[Selenial]

Sel. Stop.

 

I wants Revan.

 

I want Talzin

 

But some consistency would be nice.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

So you're banning someone who can kill another across the galaxy via immense amounts of preparation.... But leaving someone who can corrupt an entire fleet using the Dark Side?

 

#BeniLogic

Using Malachor V.

 

And Talzin would be banned not because of her parlor tricks, but because of her raw power. She's a Caedus-tier Force user and her involvement can't be justified if we simultaneously ban him.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

I want Talzin

 

But some consistency would be nice.

 

I saw that earlier color.

 

Talzin's OK, in my opinion. She doesn't have all of the perks of a leader.

[Selenial]

Using Malachor V.

 

And Talzin would be banned not because of her parlor tricks, but because of her raw power. She's a Caedus-tier Force user and her involvement can't be justified if we simultaneously ban him.

Given how many Nexuses have already been chosen, you think that won't happen again?

 

Your argument for banning Talzin is ridiculous, tbh. It's literally because you detest her as a character, at least be honest about it. There is no way you can look at Talzin, ban her, and then allow someone who is:

 

+ A better tactician

+ A better duelist

+ More knowledgeable on Jedi and Sith

+ Immensely charismatic

+ A military prodigy

+ Has greater large scale force powers

- Slightly inferior as a force user.

 

Caedus is on her tier as a force user, yeh, but he's a superior tactician, better swordsman, has a better mind for manipulation and has battle meditation.

 

You can't pick and ban people based on arbitrary power tiers

Edited August 11, 2015 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

Given how many Nexuses have already been chosen, you think that won't happen again?

On what basis do you believe it would work on any other nexus? And on uncorrupted Jedi?

 

Malachor was unique, and he combined its abilities with a carefully crafted scenario to produce the results. I don't think we could ban Revan on the basis of an ability that to replicate again would definitely be a matter of debate

It's literally because you detest her as a character, at least be honest about it.

I LOL'ed.

There is no way you can look at Talzin, ban her, and then allow someone who is:

 

+ A better tactician

+ A better duelist

+ More knowledgeable on Jedi and Sith

+ Immensely charismatic

+ A military prodigy

+ Has greater large scale force powers

- Slightly inferior as a force user.

 

Caedus is on her tier as a force user, yeh, but he's a superior tactician, better swordsman, has a better mind for tactics and has battle meditation.

Caedus was banned because of his Force abilities, not everything or anything else. His Force abilities, like Talzin's, make him extremely difficult to kill and incredibly dominanting in a combat scenario, which in turn creates I-win scenarios. If you can demonstrate why this is not the case, then you'd have grounds for lifting a ban.

 

However if we alter the conditions for a ban by making them only applicable to powerful and extremely rounded characters then we should consider unbanning the likes of Plagueis as well, if not others. However like Talzin, I see Plagueis as too dominating when it comes to Force abilities to be defeated, and could easily slaughter his opponents. Heck Thrawn should be considered unbanned as well, consider he entirely lacks Force abilities of any kind.

 

But that's not how it works, if a character can be considered unbeatable in any one field it's grounds for a ban.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

I wouldn't really consider Talzin unbeatable, honestly.