SWTOR is not Star Wars

[Ghisallo]

You see, I think that is hog wash, when you look at what Lucas wrote you will realize he was preaching Doaism in his description of the force, He envisioned pure good and pure evil, and only normal people could be balanced and grey. The problem hits, when you realize that Lucas didn't understand good and evil to start with. The Jedi in the prequals were not good aligned by any definition, and the people who were evil didn't act evil at all.

 

What it ended up being:

Technology, Totalitarian, passion = Evil

calm, restful, natural = Good

 

Which causes a huge moral problem, under most definitions of good the word used is morality based on belief, Lucas reinforces this concept of good and evil based on a mix of 'Modern Hippism' as good, and Corporate Entities as evil.

 

While not placing a moral compass on compassion, selflessness and selfishness. Although Anakin states that line, it is clear he remained selfless in motivation even after falling to the darkside, and from everything the Emperor does it is clear he actually wants to establish order and stability which are signs of selflessness.

 

 

The thing is though that Taoism/Ch'an Buddhism (also known as Zen aka taoist light) doesn't see good and evil the way we do in the west. The wolve is not evil when he eats the sheep as an example. Striving for good is striving for "naturalness" breaking down the conditioning that you and the rest of the world are separate things and to act with this new knowledge. To act with your gut, your instincts...the natural spontaneous part of you rather than the programmed "habits" that we are taught. In taoism Evil only exists thrugh the actions of men when you go "out of balance"... either over doing it to one side or the other (dark or light, Yin or Yang).

 

So while Lucas tried to use Eastern Philosophies, he looked at them only superficially and then applied to western definitions to concepts.

 

The new idea actually works though... the Jedi (Lucas called the selfless) in essence are the Yang (light and warmth) Sith (Lucas called selfish) are the yin (Dark and cold). They must be in harmony. In Taoist philosophy both would technically be "evil." Hell I think someone may have actually given Lucas an Eastern Philosophy Primer since in the TCW Season 3 commentary he didn't say "jedi are good Sith are evil" he referred to the light as the selfless and the dark as selfish.

 

That actually reminds me. One of the other things Yeager said yesterday was that people are inherently selfish creatures... but that is another conversation. He was a very interesting lecturer... I think you would have liked it.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Ghisallo

[DarthDymond]

but it's weird :| like they can't quite make up their mind what exactly the dark side is and what happens when someone falls.

There are literally hundreds of authors who have penned Star Wars stories across the books, games, and comics across three decades of near-constant production. So yeah, there are definitely competing views at work.

 

Personally, I kind of like it being 'messy' like that, though - leaves the spiritual / moral dynamic as an open question, or at least one that can't be objectively proven - the same way it is in real life.

 

Even without the many-authors issue, Lucas himself is pretty wishy-washy on the matter. Which makes sense, too, this is a fun little make-believe land he dreamed up, he's got every right to play fast and loose with its rules if he wants to.

[Nebdar]

This has bothered me for a very long time and finally I thought I would try to put these thoughts together coherently in hopes that it will spark some reaction from those who might have similar insights.

 

While SWTOR is widely praised for its story elements, I feel it is exaclty this, the story, that fails to align with the lore that it is based on. Star Wars, in my opinion, is about the light side vs. the dark side. Situations that illustrate this most basic confilct can include:

• being tempted by the dark side and resisting it
  
• being tempted by the dark side and falling
  
• being consumed by the hatred and fear that the dark side embodies and being destroyed by it
  
• finding ultimate redemption in the light side
  

... and various iterations and variations on these themes.

 

SWTOR misses the point of all of this entirely. The dark side is just one of several choices on a dialogue wheel that carries no real consequence for the outcome of your story or for the fate of your character. It is an irrelevant flavouring that gives your character a certain "style" but has no real impact on anything in the game world. Every dark vs. light choice should have a perceivable and consequential outcome on your story. While this might be difficult to achieve from a production point of view, it is alas the entire point of the Star Wars universe and just glossing over it as a sort of "seasoning" betrays what SW is about.

 

To deepen this examination, why is the dark side even a viable option to begin with? The dark side and the Empire are EVIL. They stand for slavery, torture, exploitation, murder, racism ... Why are we even able to choose such a faction and make dark side choices that support the things listed above? Because this game is a COPY of WoW. But in WoW, the Horde is not EVIL. The Horde races may be more tribal or militant than the Alliance, but they are not evil and do not seek "the dark side" as a means to power.

 

All of this coupled with the fact that lightsabers are just glowing sticks destroys any real connection between SWTOR and that which makes Star Wars Star Wars.

 

hmm you have been playing every class twice did you? one time light side and one time dark side?

some choices doesn't affect your class story so much but some do....

either you play again same story or read some spoilers

 

i have recently finished the Jedi Knight story...light side and every one i didn't killed show up to support me on Correlia.. if i had choosed the dark side options and killed them they wouldn't show on Corellia and I need to find out how it will affect future mission but it will change it...there is whole mission where i save them and rally them to one place. so i am curious what will be the counter mission or what would happen if i spared one and rest kiled

Even non class missions have dark side. light side option that will affect what will be you objective and 'generally' choosing dark side option for republic or light side option for Empire means less/no additional work to complete mission/quest(no bonus quest for ex.)

 

You are right that the FINAL mission/outcome will be the same but not identical and I do felt that DS/LS did matter and it the curiosity of how would it look like is enough incentive to play again same story but different choices

[Warlord_Maliken]

If it were up to me, lightsabers would 1 shot like they do in the movies. As a pvp'er, i say this non-biasly - you can trust me :)

[ejbsuperbat]

That whole bit about falling for the dark side but then redemption happened for me, sort of.

 

I started the game as a jedi, I still remember tython, then after chapter 2 I have a PVP duel with a sith player! I say how strong he was so I joined the Dark side on Korriban but after seeing the evils of the Sith at level 16 I could not fight for them anymore, I am now A jedi master. See? Falling for dark side, story of redemption

[TechPianist]

To deepen this examination, why is the dark side even a viable option to begin with? The dark side and the Empire are EVIL. They stand for slavery, torture, exploitation, murder, racism ... Why are we even able to choose such a faction and make dark side choices that support the things listed above? Because this game is a COPY of WoW. But in WoW, the Horde is not EVIL. The Horde races may be more tribal or militant than the Alliance, but they are not evil and do not seek "the dark side" as a means to power.

 

All of this coupled with the fact that lightsabers are just glowing sticks destroys any real connection between SWTOR and that which makes Star Wars Star Wars.

 

Bet you're one of those Republic RP fascists ey?

I must admit that I am deeply concerned about your perception of games. Whilst I can at least rudimentarily understand your struggle, your arguments are far from convincing. They actually anger me, but I want to deal with this objectively.

 

The moment you ask why we are able to play "for the evil ones" is the moment you question quite a substantial part of gaming industry nowadays. How can you not understand that people are self-evidently thrilled when they can legally murder, cheat and enslave? Whether this happens in front of 0s and 1s or in real life hardly matters. (As far as I know though, there is no real possibility to murder legally in civilised regions of this world anyway (death penalties and dictatorships excluded)). Being evil in games is a wonderful chance given to players to also experience the meaning of our own caprice, and that is most fantastic. I also do not see at all why you have to be penalised when doing so! You stultify yourself by saying that there should be consequences for being evil in the Empire. Of course, being evil in the Republic is just as well contradictory, but this bunch of rookies eventually rely on you, no matter what you do.

 

Moreover, the Empire makes a huge development towards the right direction in the course of the game's plot. It starts to comprehend that blind murder and the reign of an apathetic Emperor are fairly useless and actually detrimental. The fact that the Empire desires to let ruthless slavery fade makes me favour it so much, as you know that there is being taken distance from "inconsideration". Yet, you may still be pitch-black dark if you wish to be. Without consequences.

 

I confess that SW:TOR has little to do with the original iconic Star Wars films. But does that make the game any bad? Not at all. It makes this game have it's own atmosphere and taste, which fortunately does not require you to "find ultimate redemption in the light side".

[Kurkina]

Sorry, but calling something a "disgusting perversion" seems pretty judgmental to me.

To clarify, the "perversion" I speak of is not something in the game, but the attitude that most DS players adopt: the perceived "coolness" of the DS.

 

Moreover, the Empire makes a huge development towards the right direction in the course of the game's plot. It starts to comprehend that blind murder and the reign of an apathetic Emperor are fairly useless and actually detrimental.

 

For me, Star Wars is the story of the Empire vs. the Republic, the Jedi vs. the Sith. Why does/should the Empire take a "step in the right direction?" Because in end-game raiding, the empire and republic are fighting the same enemy, because that's what WoW does, and in the Star Wars universe it seems misplaced to me.

 

I confess that SW:TOR has little to do with the original iconic Star Wars films. But does that make the game any bad? Not at all. It makes this game have it's own atmosphere and taste, which fortunately does not require you to "find ultimate redemption in the light side".

 

I (and I believe many others) play this game because it is Star Wars, which I reiterate means Empire vs. Republic, Sith vs. Jedi. And yet outside of Warzones that happen outside of the story, where is the Empire vs. Republic content, especially at endgame? It's not there, which in my opinion makes most of the story meaningless in a Star Wars context.

 

[Ghisallo]

For me, Star Wars is the story of the Empire vs. the Republic, the Jedi vs. the Sith. Why does/should the Empire take a "step in the right direction?" Because in end-game raiding, the empire and republic are fighting the same enemy, because that's what WoW does, and in the Star Wars universe it seems misplaced to me.

 

See this is where I think you COMPLETELY miss out on the rest of the EU.

 

I am going to assume that the movies and maybe the cartoons are the bulk of your experience. I would recommend reading Tales of the Jedi Volumes 1 and 2. In these you find out something VERY important about the Sith. Lucas in the TCW Commentaries doesn't call them "the selfish" for nothing. The Sith are Constantly vying against each other, they are completely about self-interest. While some players may choose to play their character as an uncontrollable homicidal Lunactic, in Sith Society they would not have made it to the rank of Initiate because they would have been cut down. So If you have an Emperor whose goal is to turn you into lunch you will ally yourself with whoever will help keep you from being lunch.

 

Remember, this game takes place BEFORE the rule of Two. The Sith are not simply an Empire but a Force using order that likely numbers in the thousands (if you count trainees, initiates, Adepts etc.), and with that comes all of the Politics, back stabbing and alliances of necessity or convenience that a bureaucracy brings with it. It is not the post Ruusan, "Rule of Two" Sith. The fact there are only 2 Sith creates a very different dynamic when than when they are Legion led by a homicidal Megalomaniac.

 

To make a real world analogy look at how far in the "past" this game takes place in the SW timeline. irl I don't even have to go back 3000 years. Simply imagine trying to make a comparison between the "rules" of our age, the definitions of right and wrong etc. and the Mongol or Roman Empires.

[gothshark]

To clarify, the "perversion" I speak of is not something in the game, but the attitude that most DS players adopt: the perceived "coolness" of the DS.

 

 

 

For me, Star Wars is the story of the Empire vs. the Republic, the Jedi vs. the Sith. Why does/should the Empire take a "step in the right direction?" Because in end-game raiding, the empire and republic are fighting the same enemy, because that's what WoW does, and in the Star Wars universe it seems misplaced to me.

 

 

 

I (and I believe many others) play this game because it is Star Wars, which I reiterate means Empire vs. Republic, Sith vs. Jedi. And yet outside of Warzones that happen outside of the story, where is the Empire vs. Republic content, especially at endgame? It's not there, which in my opinion makes most of the story meaningless in a Star Wars context.

 

 

As i have pointed out on a couple of occasions, SWTOR did not Copy World of Warcraft in these things. (They did copy the talent system in the early days, but that has been changed.)

 

The Developers of Star Wars the Old Repulblic, copied their highly successful first MMO called Star Wars Galaxies, and mixed it with Biowares RPG Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. Both games were released prior to the Release of World of Warcraft .

 

The only reason SWG is no more is because they made SWTOR. All of your complaints come from the fact you don't know Star Wars. Even though you can no longer play SWG (closed days before SWTOR released), you can still purchase and download KOTOR from Steam, I recommend you play that game and if you really want to get it play the sequal as well (although not required, as it was not made by Bioware, however I enjoyed it, even if I got OP at the end)

[gothshark]

The thing is though that Taoism/Ch'an Buddhism (also known as Zen aka taoist light) doesn't see good and evil the way we do in the west. The wolve is not evil when he eats the sheep as an example. Striving for good is striving for "naturalness" breaking down the conditioning that you and the rest of the world are separate things and to act with this new knowledge. To act with your gut, your instincts...the natural spontaneous part of you rather than the programmed "habits" that we are taught. In taoism Evil only exists thrugh the actions of men when you go "out of balance... either over doing it to one side or the other (dark or light, Yin or Yang).

 

So while Lucas tried to use Eastern Philosophies, he looked at them only superficially and then applied to western definitions to concepts.

 

The new idea actually works though... the Jedi (Lucas called the selfless) in essence are the Yang (light and warmth) Sith (Lucas called selfish) are the yang (Dark and cold). They must be in harmony. In Taoist philosophy both would technically be "evil." Hell I think someone may have actually given Lucas an Eastern Philosophy Primer since in the TCW Season 3 commentary he didn't say "jedi are good Sith are evil" he referred to the light as the selfless and the dark as selfish.

 

That actually reminds me. One of the other things Yeager said yesterday was that people are inherently selfish creatures... but that is another conversation. He was a very interesting lecturer... I think you would have liked it.

 

Well worded, I have a bad habit of posting on forums when I first wake up, so my wording can fail me. But yes, Lucas with an introductory understanding of Eastern Philosophy made up the Force based on that mixed with Jewish tradition (I know since well my family background and all

 

 

edit: just to be clear, Lucas copied Eastern Tradition and mixed it with Jewish, this doesn't imply he was or is Jewish, he's not, the root of western Religious thought is Jewish Tradition, and as a Methodist Lucas would have been fully aware of it. ).

Edited May 14, 2015 by gothshark

[Ghisallo]

Well worded, I have a bad habit of posting on forums when I first wake up, so my wording can fail me. But yes, Lucas with an introductory understanding of Eastern Philosophy made up the Force based on that mixed with Jewish tradition (I know since well my family background and all).

 

I did screw up one bit, I said Yang twice... lol. Most people think Yin is the warm light because in the west we say "good and evil". Yin is actually the Dark, Yang the light.

[TechPianist]

For me, Star Wars is the story of the Empire vs. the Republic, the Jedi vs. the Sith. Why does/should the Empire take a "step in the right direction?" Because in end-game raiding, the empire and republic are fighting the same enemy, because that's what WoW does, and in the Star Wars universe it seems misplaced to me.

 

I (and I believe many others) play this game because it is Star Wars, which I reiterate means Empire vs. Republic, Sith vs. Jedi. And yet outside of Warzones that happen outside of the story, where is the Empire vs. Republic content, especially at endgame? It's not there, which in my opinion makes most of the story meaningless in a Star Wars context.

 

First of all, you should clearly seperate raiding from the actual plot. While operations do, no questions asked, bear a story-forwarding role, their main purpose is to entertain those who want to challenge themselves alongside others in this game for gear, honor and glory.

What I particularly referred to was the story on Makeb for the Empire. It was this conflict that initiated a turn of tables concerning the structures inside the Empire. Darth Marr himself, more or less the highest authority at the very moment, does realise that powerplays amongst the Sith and a mindless dictatorship have direly exacerbated conditions (which in my opinion is a subtle wish to be marginally more benevolent). Do not misunderstand me, the moment the Empire turns into a wanna-be Republic is the moment I completely stop respecting the plot and I do reinforce the wish to annihilate the Republic alongside its by this time duty-blinded Jedi.

(Just a little partisan here.)

However, where you are right (and what I must also criticise) is that the "shared-enemy-policy" not only starts to grow boring, but is misplaced right now, especially after we already had to endure that with Revan's utter insanity. Likewise does the importance of the battle between the Republic and the Empire begin to diminish. Something I admittedly find regrettable.

Eventually, I would not narrow down Star Wars to Empire vs. Republic only though, not as it currently stands. In any case, you are right with the actual war slowly fading from sight.

I myself by the way did begin to play this game because it was Star Wars, yes.

But by the time I learned to distinguish between aforementioned trilogy and this game, I started to enjoy it much more.

[Ghisallo]

First of all, you should clearly seperate raiding from the actual plot. While operations do, no questions asked, bear a story-forwarding role, their main purpose is to entertain those who want to challenge themselves alongside others in this game for gear, honor and glory.

What I particularly referred to was the story on Makeb for the Empire. It was this conflict that initiated a turn of tables concerning the structures inside the Empire. Darth Marr himself, more or less the highest authority at the very moment, does realise that powerplays amongst the Sith and a mindless dictatorship have direly exacerbated conditions (which in my opinion is a subtle wish to be marginally more benevolent). Do not misunderstand me, the moment the Empire turns into a wanna-be Republic is the moment I completely stop respecting the plot and I do reinforce the wish to annihilate the Republic alongside its by this time duty-blinded Jedi.

(Just a little partisan here.)

However, where you are right (and what I must also criticise) is that the "shared-enemy-policy" not only starts to grow boring, but is misplaced right now, especially after we already had to endure that with Revan's utter insanity. Likewise does the importance of the battle between the Republic and the Empire begin to diminish. Something I admittedly find regrettable.

Eventually, I would not narrow down Star Wars to Empire vs. Republic only though, not as it currently stands. In any case, you are right with the actual war slowly fading from sight.

I myself by the way did begin to play this game because it was Star Wars, yes.

But by the time I learned to distinguish between aforementioned trilogy and this game, I started to enjoy it much more.

 

How can it be misplaced... The Emperor, last we heard wants to dominate the Galaxy. I know it's an old trop but if Roosevelt and Stalin can stay together until THAT bad guy is dead, the Empire and Republic staying together until a bad guy 1000x's worse is dead makes perfect sense. Once you start a story arc like this it has to end... you can't just leave it hanging.

 

Also I would just settle in and get used to it. They needed to streamline dev cycles and the easiest way to do that is a single story vs 8 or even 2. The EU kinda gave us a hint of this btw, the Vong war primary among them.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ghisallo]

Well worded, I have a bad habit of posting on forums when I first wake up, so my wording can fail me. But yes, Lucas with an introductory understanding of Eastern Philosophy made up the Force based on that mixed with Jewish tradition (I know since well my family background and all

 

 

edit: just to be clear, Lucas copied Eastern Tradition and mixed it with Jewish, this doesn't imply he was or is Jewish, he's not, the root of western Religious thought is Jewish Tradition, and as a Methodist Lucas would have been fully aware of it. ).

 

I don't think he really used Judeo-Christian philosophies/religion though. I really think people often give Lucas too much credit for being a deep thinker because he put of gloss of philosophy onto his books. Example Destiny plays a STRONG roll which is not common in either Judeo-Christian or eastern philosophies.

 

The only actual "source" I see having any consistent usage tbh is Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand faces" and the Monomyth and the Monomyth is first illustrated in many stories, including those of Moses and Jesus BUT begin LONG before these stories (at least according to scholars using peer reveiwed evidence...which can of course be wrong at times). The Epic of Gilgamesh, The Odyssey etc. As such I think he used the trapping sof Eastern Philosophy, but even according to Lucas himself the "story" itself is more about "the Hero's journey" as described by Campbell. It's just that much of the stories that the religions of the West and Near East use as their means to instruct are very deeply rooted in the monomyth.

 

If you haven't read it is a good read.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Ghisallo

[gothshark]

I don't think he really used Judeo-Christian philosophies/religion though. I really think people often give Lucas too much credit for being a deep thinker because he put of gloss of philosophy onto his books. Example Destiny plays a STRONG roll which is not common in either Judeo-Christian or eastern philosophies.

 

The only actual "source" I see having any consistent usage tbh is Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand faces" and the Monomyth and the Monomyth is first illustrated in many stories, including those of Moses and Jesus BUT begin LONG before these stories (at least according to scholars using peer reveiwed evidence...which can of course be wrong at times). The Epic of Gilgamesh, The Odyssey etc. As such I think he used the trapping sof Eastern Philosophy, but even according to Lucas himself the "story" itself is more about "the Hero's journey" as described by Campbell. It's just that much of the stories that the religions of the West and Near East use as their means to instruct are very deeply rooted in the monomyth.

 

If you haven't read it is a good read.

 

 

Oh I don't think he's a good enough writer to be deep, however he has admitted publicly on several occasions that he mixed what he knew of eastern philosophy with his personal belief system to make the Jedi. As to the story it was a direct copy of Hidden Fortress, yes he quotes the Heroes journey but the reality is Lucas copied other peoples brilliance and accidentally made a franchise we all love.

[Ghisallo]

Oh I don't think he's a good enough writer to be deep, however he has admitted publicly on several occasions that he mixed what he knew of eastern philosophy with his personal belief system to make the Jedi. As to the story it was a direct copy of Hidden Fortress, yes he quotes the Heroes journey but the reality is Lucas copied other peoples brilliance and accidentally made a franchise we all love.

 

Well some of the characters are indeed from hidden fortress (R2 and 3PO off the top of my head). My point was just to say that while the dogma of modern religions is different (most importantly monotheism), the foundations of it, the stories that they use to teach the various lessons, are common themes we can see going back to the Time of the ancient Sumerians. The concepts of Good and Evil, finding one's true "divine" heritage or purpose, the descent into the underworld, redemption from evil (Vader/Anakin), the Merlin like figure (obi-wan and yoda)... these are simply western and near/middle eastern the Judeo/Christian one is simply the one that survived BUT is built on the foundations of the Sumerians, Eqyptians, Greeks etc. Heck Western traditions that had no contact with the Judeo/Christian ethos have similar Stories... Celts come to mind immediately.

 

This is why I say it is about Monomyth... Campbell called it Monomyth for a reason... in terms of the stories, Gilgamesh, Osiris, Hercules, Moses, Jesus.... the stories all follow the Monomyth. My ex is a Cantor and we used to have pretty interesting conversations about this kinda stuff.

 

PS this isn't to put down any religion btw. Its just that there are only so many ways to get a point across, especially in societies where literacy was not common... so the stories all tend to follow the same basic steps.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Ghisallo

[gothshark]

Well some of the characters are indeed from hidden fortress (R2 and 3PO off the top of my head). My point was just to say that while the dogma of modern religions is different (most importantly monotheism), the foundations of it, the stories that they use to teach the various lessons, are common themes we can see going back to the Time of the ancient Sumerians. The concepts of Good and Evil, finding one's true "divine" heritage or purpose, the descent into the underworld, redemption from evil (Vader/Anakin), the Merlin like figure (obi-wan and yoda)... these are simply western and near/middle eastern the Judeo/Christian one is simply the one that survived BUT is built on the foundations of the Sumerians, Eqyptians, Greeks etc. Heck Western traditions that had no contact with the Judeo/Christian ethos have similar Stories... Celts come to mind immediately.

 

This is why I say it is about Monomyth... Campbell called it Monomyth for a reason... in terms of the stories, Gilgamesh, Osiris, Hercules, Moses, Jesus.... the stories all follow the Monomyth. My ex is a Cantor and we used to have pretty interesting conversations about this kinda stuff.

 

PS this isn't to put down any religion btw. Its just that there are only so many ways to get a point across, especially in societies where literacy was not common... so the stories all tend to follow the same basic steps.

 

Monomyth is a clever term, I may have to use that in the future. Yes and we are clearly over thinking what Lucas didn't actually think hard about. (if he had he would have had a better idea than bacteria (midichlorians - which when you brake down that word you realize how silly it is, midi- middle, chlor - Chlorine, ians - origin, midiclorians - 'from middle chlorine' which implies an organic chlorine chemical bond with the Cl in the middle these are usually toxic to life as we know it).

Edited May 14, 2015 by gothshark

[Ghisallo]

Monomyth is a clever term, I may have to use that in the future. Yes and we are clearly over thinking what Lucas didn't actually think hard about. (if he had he would have had a better idea than bacteria (midichlorians - which when you brake down that word you realize how silly it is, midi- middle, chlor - Chlorine, ians - origin, midiclorians - 'from middle chlorine' which implies an organic chlorine chemical bond with the Cl in the middle these are usually toxic to life as we know it).

 

Yeah... up until the midi-chlorians I think he was just doing a <sing> "what would Brian Boitano do" or in this case "what would Arthur, Perseus, Merlin and Hercules do" (Herc being the classic fallen from grace redemption story of western myth).

 

With the midi-chlorians I think he was having a reaction based on his comments of "this is Sci-fi" and to his narrow vision the original "it's like Yoga, anyone can do it, it's just that most people don't bother trying" was "magic" so he needed pseudoscience... cue the midi-chlorians. As much as the concept irks me I would have been happier with an "Ancient Alien's" answer. Somewhere, somewhen, scores of millennia ago, some long dead race tweeked the genetic structure of specific races and every so often, for whatever reason the recessive functions of these genes get awakened and they gain an additional sense that permits them to manipulate a universal quantum field tat most are blind too. BUT then people would be saying "The Jedi are just Inhuman's or X-men?!?!?!?!"

 

Yeah should have stuck with the Yoga analogy... lol

Edited May 14, 2015 by Ghisallo

[gothshark]

Yeah... up until the midi-chlorians I think he was just doing a <sing> "what would Brian Boitano do" or in this case "what would Arthur, Perseus, Merlin and Hercules do" (Herc being the classic fallen from grace redemption story of western myth).

 

With the midi-chlorians I think he was having a reaction based on his comments of "this is Sci-fi" and to his narrow vision the original "it's like Yoga, anyone can do it, it's just that most people don't bother trying" was "magic" so he needed pseudoscience... cue the midi-chlorians. As much as the concept irks me I would have been happier with an "Ancient Alien's" answer. Somewhere, somewhen, scores of millennia ago, some long dead race tweeked the genetic structure of specific races and every so often, for whatever reason the recessive functions of these genes get awakened and they gain an additional sense that permits them to manipulate a universal quantum field tat most are blind too. BUT then people would be saying "The Jedi are just Inhuman's or X-men?!?!?!?!"

 

Yeah should have stuck with the Yoga analogy... lol

 

You realize, with the Rakata storyline, if it was ever expanded further that would quiet simply be what happened, as it is several well known races were shown as being modified for that purpose. Since this approaches the spoiler zone, I'll say no more outside of

spoiler tags.

 

But yes Ancient aliens did mess with many key races in the galexy trying to learn how to make stronger more reliable force powers. However they were unable to save themselves, oh I do love the Rakata, best Star Wars race ever, created by bioware for KOTOR.

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by gothshark

[Ghisallo]

You realize, with the Rakata storyline, if it was ever expanded further that would quiet simply be what happened, as it is several well known races were shown as being modified for that purpose. Since this approaches the spoiler zone, I'll say no more outside of

spoiler tags.

 

But yes Ancient aliens did mess with many key races in the galexy trying to learn how to make stronger more reliable force powers. However they were unable to save themselves, oh I do love the Rakata, best Star Wars race ever, created by bioware for KOTOR.

 

 

yeah but AFAIK what they were doing was a primitive version of what Plagueis did. They were loosing their connection to the force and were experimenting on "lesser" races to try and find out why they were NOT losing their connection and I suppose trying to augment it to see if they could in turn augment theirs, but the Force and organic races predating them could all use it. I actually found the Rakata to be a BIT over the top. 1005 dark side cannibals using darkside powered tech... YEAH a brilliant Super race like the Kwa would DEFINITELY see a race of homicidal cannibals as a good choice to "uplift" /facepalm. The Celestials and until then...the Kwa... seemed cool. I mean come on... the Kwa didn't stop and do a little observation? They just took in the Rakata started teaching them the force and THEN found out they were cannibals who didn't care about balance? Oi.

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Ghisallo