Question: Can Trandoshans become a playable race in the future.

[MisterBlackJack]

It has nothing to do with the game's design doc, it has more to do with what the game currently is and where it's at currently.

 

Like I said before had this game been the WoW like success they thought they would've "easily" been able to go back in and add playable Wookies or whatever because they would've had the budget, staff, resources, etc, to make that happen.

 

The situation as it stands right now is completely different and since launch it's become a would you rather situation, ie would you rather they focus resources on making Wookies playable or instead make new story content? You can substitute story content with anything else really. In the end though races like Wookies are never going to be the winner of that question because there's always going to be something that players want way more that is far more lucrative for BW to do.

 

Also People need to remember Bioware still has to go through Lucas for anything Star Wars related. They may have leeway story wise, but playable species is something I feel Lucas will have a big say. Especially since Lucas already gets a lot of say in 3rd party macros

[Foreignobjects]

Those things aren't the issue.

 

Does/Can X race use the 8 body types currently in the game? <-That is and will always be the most important factor to a race becoming playable.

 

Nearly every part of the game is built around those 8 body types, so if a race doesn't/can't use them then they're never going to become playable.

 

I'll use Wookies as an example...

 

- Would Wookies work within the existing cutscenes without any issues? No.

- Can Wookies use the existing armor sets? No.

- Do Wookies have all the class based animations mapped to their skeleton/mesh? No.

- Can Wookies use all of the currently available mounts in the game without issue? No.

 

Romances are not a part of the overall issue. There are multiple other problems that a race like Wookies, Trandos, etc, would have to overcome prior to ever having to worry about romances.

your right about 95% ... those 8 body styles are what players are based around ATM... but when u factor in the new Appearance tab... the Customizations for your companions... whos to say they cant combine that say with a player customization... like they could add a wookiee.. trando. bothan . rodian ... Customization box that u can add to your Appearance tab. and you wouldnt be able to change the outfit... but there could be diff outfits for diff customizations as they have over 9 for each companion ...

 

but.... the cutscenes would have to show your true form.... that s the only downfall atm if they did this

[Bluerodian]

Currently Keldor, Rodian, Duros, Neimodian, Davaronian, Nautalon, and several others do already use one of the 8 body types. The head mesh and perhaps a hand mesh or some such are different. Working around that is fairly simple and should be obvious to anyone how to. Even Doshans appear to be using body type 3.

 

Wookies do not and should not be playable because of lucasarts restrictions imposed on that species specifically. The others have no such restrictions with the exception of Yoda's species not being allowed to be expanded on in any way shape or form.

 

It's already been established that many if not all can speak basic so...what is the issue exactly?

[Darth-Obvious]

your right about 95% ... those 8 body styles are what players are based around ATM...

 

No, it's what the entire game is built around. There's no way to course correct that at this point. This game would've needed to have been the WoW like success they planned on it being to make any significant changes beyond the 8 body types. They would need the money, time, and resources to do something like Cataclysm or order to adjust that vanilla content.

 

but when u factor in the new Appearance tab

 

The Outfit Designer is only applies to gear, none of which changes your character's height or body type.

 

... the Customizations for your companions...

 

They've been in the game since launch. They're not something they added recently, and note it's something we're still using years later opposed to being able to edit our companions with something like the Designer Kiosk.

 

[qoute]whos to say they cant combine that say with a player customization... like they could add a wookiee.. trando. bothan . rodian ... Customization box that u can add to your Appearance tab. and you wouldnt be able to change the outfit... but there could be diff outfits for diff customizations as they have over 9 for each companion ...

 

but.... the cutscenes would have to show your true form.... that s the only downfall atm if they did this

 

That's not a good idea, not only because of the amount of time/resources it would take to do, but because it offers no customization options for the player, nor the ability to see the customization in cutscenes.

 

Note that the companions are built completely differently than the player characters (which is why they currently can't use the Outfit Designer) they can't just easily put in a customization slot for players characters like they can for companions.

 

A much easier, quicker, and better solution would be to offer Wookie, Trando, etc, costume/armor pieces via the cartel market like they did/do with the Cybernetic series pieces. For instance Wookie Set 1 (head, chest, legs, etc) would be a naked looking Wookie. Wookie Set 2 would feature a bandoleer (chest) googles (head) in other words cosmetic differences from Wookie Set 1. Wookie Sets 3, 4, 5, etc, would be the same way. Each featuring something differently cosmetic for the head, chest, legs, etc. The player could then mix and match parts from Sets 1-5 to create their own look.

 

Doing it that^ way already works within the existing game and doesn't require them to do any new coding. It also allows the player some choice in how they want their Wookie (or whatever) to look and it also means that you could see the character in the cutscenes. The only "drawback" is that because they're outfit pieces they would conform to 8 existing body types. Meaning none of them would be actually as tall as a Wookie, but at the same time you'd have the variety of 8 different body types with Wookie appearances.

[Darth-Obvious]

It's already been established that many if not all can speak basic so...what is the issue exactly?

 

Speaking Basic is not the issue and never has been.

 

http://torwars.com/2013/01/18/torwars-dev-watch-1182013/

 

Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi’leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta’s canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping — indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi’leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

 

I’m not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite – if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that ‘soonish’. I just don’t want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art — it’s a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

[Bluerodian]

Speaking Basic is not the issue and never has been.

 

http://torwars.com/2013/01/18/torwars-dev-watch-1182013/

 

 

By that logic then Trandoshans should be easier then togruta or nautalon. No tentacles or parts to clip through armor.

 

Besides does Damian Schubert even work there anymore?

Edited May 13, 2015 by Bluerodian

[Darth-Obvious]

By that logic then Trandoshans should be easier then togruta or nautalon. No tentacles or parts to clip through armor.

 

That wasn't the issue/problem. How was that the thing you took away from that post?

 

Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

I just don’t want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art — it’s a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

 

^That is the most important part. Specifically that last line.

 

You're completely clueless about the fact that in order to make these races playable they need to be rebuilt from scratch. They can't use existing art assets. The have to create new faces, hair/leku styles, etc.

 

How are you so blind or un observant that you never noticed the difference between the vanilla Cathar and the playable Cathar? And if you did that's even worse because then you saw how different the playable versions were and still couldn't comprehend that a lot of work is involved.

 

Besides does Damian Schubert even work there anymore?

 

What does that matter? What kind of moronic sentiment is that to try and discredit what he's saying? It's still just as difficult to create new races. Seriously, stop and use your brain and think for a second about how long it took to get Cathars in the game, and how longs it's been between the next race being added, and how they (the Togruta) are taking a long time as well. Guess why that is genius?

 

At nearly ever turn you hold your own opinion to be gospel as if you have such great ideas or that just because you say or infer something it must be true, but you're easily proven wrong or shown to be completely ignorant about a situation on such a constant basis that it's bewildering as to why you keep doing it? You don't realize that every time you do it, it makes you look worse and as a result people won't take you seriously.

[Bluerodian]

That wasn't the issue/problem. How was that the thing you took away from that post?

 

 

^That is the most important part. Specifically that last line.

 

You're completely clueless about the fact that in order to make these races playable they need to be rebuilt from scratch. They can't use existing art assets. The have to create new faces, hair/leku styles, etc.

 

How are you so blind or un observant that you never noticed the difference between the vanilla Cathar and the playable Cathar? And if you did that's even worse because then you saw how different the playable versions were and still couldn't comprehend that a lot of work is involved.

 

 

 

What does that matter? What kind of moronic sentiment is that to try and discredit what he's saying? It's still just as difficult to create new races. Seriously, stop and use your brain and think for a second about how long it took to get Cathars in the game, and how longs it's been between the next race being added, and how they (the Togruta) are taking a long time as well. Guess why that is genius?

 

At nearly ever turn you hold your own opinion to be gospel as if you have such great ideas or that just because you say or infer something it must be true, but you're easily proven wrong or shown to be completely ignorant about a situation on such a constant basis that it's bewildering as to why you keep doing it? You don't realize that every time you do it, it makes you look worse and as a result people won't take you seriously.

 

You haven't proven me wrong. You've simply been spouting the same line over and over again.

 

Anyway just because something is yellow text does not make it truth. Be that as it may I never said that there would not be a lot of work involved. Only that it is not as much as they are making it out to be. I don't believe that it requires making a mesh from scratch. I do know what I'm talking about there because I do know what is involved with making 3d art assets.

 

But you know what I'm going to find out for myself how difficult it is for them so this little argument can be put to bed and you can quit with you pointless indignant aggression. I'll just rip the assets from the client and do the work myself.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Bluerodian

[XiamaraSimi]

Your ignoring an important problem as well, unify colors and hide helmet are notorioysly buggy in cut scenes, havevbeen for years. Just imagine the nightmarish fiascos of "costume body parts" not showing correctly...

[Raphael_diSanto]

You haven't proven me wrong. You've simply been spouting the same line over and over again.

 

Anyway just because something is yellow text does not make it truth. Be that as it may I never said that there would not be a lot of work involved. Only that it is not as much as they are making it out to be. I don't believe that it requires making a mesh from scratch. I do know what I'm talking about there because I do know what is involved with making 3d art assets.

 

But you know what I'm going to find out for myself how difficult it is for them so this little argument can be put to bed and you can quit with you pointless indignant aggression. I'll just rip the assets from the client and do the work myself.

 

Unfortunately, my friend, even if it only takes you an hour to do all the work that would be needed to produce art assets for every body size/gender/customization for, say, playable Rodians ( and I suspect it would take a lot longer), the fact of the matter still remains that that may well be an hour that they'd rather spend working on something else.

[Bluerodian]

Unfortunately, my friend, even if it only takes you an hour to do all the work that would be needed to produce art assets for every body size/gender/customization for, say, playable Rodians ( and I suspect it would take a lot longer), the fact of the matter still remains that that may well be an hour that they'd rather spend working on something else.

Oh I understand that. I have no doubt Bioware would turn their noses up at work I do. That's not the point of doing it here though. It's about showing that it isn't as difficult as people believe it is.

 

The hard part for me will be extracting the assets from Bioware's data files. I don't have the tools the developers have at their disposal.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Bluerodian

[Darth-Obvious]

You haven't proven me wrong. You've simply been spouting the same line over and over again.

 

No, I've proven you wrong multiple times over across multiple threads. You are constantly wrong on numerous occasions.

 

Be that as it may I never said that there would not be a lot of work involved. Only that it is not as much as they are making it out to be.

 

Yes, you have.

 

I don't believe that it requires making a mesh from scratch.

 

The Cathar faces prove otherwise. See, right there, proven wrong.

 

I do know what I'm talking about there because I do know what is involved with making 3d art assets.

 

Yet you have no idea what's involved on the back end in terms of coding to incorporate a new race into the game. It's not just about art assets genius. You're arrogance about the situation is astounding.

 

But you know what I'm going to find out for myself how difficult it is for them so this little argument can be put to bed and you can quit with you pointless indignant aggression. I'll just rip the assets from the client and do the work myself.

 

Just because a modder was able to do something as a mod in something like Skyrim doesn't mean that it would've been easy for the devs at Bethesda to do it. That's such a moronic mentality.

[Darth-Obvious]

Your ignoring an important problem as well, unify colors and hide helmet are notorioysly buggy in cut scenes, havevbeen for years. Just imagine the nightmarish fiascos of "costume body parts" not showing correctly...

 

Only for companions really. Those problems aren't as prevalent for the player, and that's because the players and companions are built on different systems. I actually can't remember the last time I was in a cutscene where my unify colors didn't appear properly on my character.

 

The only issue that the helmet really ever comes up against for the players is when there's a cutscene that has the potential for your character to kiss an NPC or instances where they decide for whatever cinematic purpose they want your helmet off.

[Bluerodian]

Just because a modder was able to do something as a mod in something like Skyrim doesn't mean that it would've been easy for the devs at Bethesda to do it. That's such a moronic mentality.

 

That is...the stupidest thing I've ever heard, but whatever. You go right on ahead and keep thinking that. I won't have to see it any more.

[Anaesha]

That is...the stupidest thing I've ever heard, but whatever. You go right on ahead and keep thinking that. I won't have to see it any more.

 

Actually it's not that stupid when you look at what Bes did with Skyrim then look at ALL the things the modders managed to do with it.

[Darth-Obvious]

Actually it's not that stupid when you look at what Bes did with Skyrim then look at ALL the things the modders managed to do with it.

 

Exactly. Bethesda had to build Skyrim first from scratch (sort of, the engine itself wasn't completely from scratch) before anybody could mod it. They then released their creation tools to the public of which I've messed around with, made my own mods, etc, but it's only easy for me or anyone to do that because somebody else (Bethesda) already built a game that's easy to manipulate. Most people modding Skyrim aren't doing anything from scratch, they're using existing art assets and code to generate mods. There are of course a number of mods that are built from scratch but they're few and far between compared to all the other mods that are out there.

 

That being said, Skyrim is one of the easiest games in the world to mod or manipulate. SWTOR on the other hand is not, not even with the Dev Tools. Most of us know that the Hero Engine that powers SWTOR is a nightmare to do anything on but yet Bluerodian in his constant arrogance thinks all of these things are trivial and aren't a problem or difficult by any stretch of the imagination even though he doesn't have the slightest clue what the Hero Engine is like to work in.

 

That is...the stupidest thing I've ever heard, but whatever. You go right on ahead and keep thinking that. I won't have to see it any more.

 

Try and remember that when somebody quotes me genius. This is just yet another case of where your constant arrogance does you no favors. "Oh I'll just put him on ignore and won't have to see his posts!" NOPE! Not how it works if someone ends up quoting me.

[Bluerodian]

Actually it's not that stupid when you look at what Bes did with Skyrim then look at ALL the things the modders managed to do with it.

 

To say that something a modder can do using mod tools is easier or is more than the actual devs can accomplish using the same or better tools makes no sense and speaks poorly of the developers.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Bluerodian

[Gandherio]

Important for new races is if they are able to be romanced and dont cause clipping/camera cut scene problems:

They need a human-like mouth

Their eyes(or eyeshape) should'nt like to exotic

Speak Basic (mainly but not at all)

Have a standard human body shape

[wilsonstone]

Exactly. Bethesda had to build Skyrim first from scratch (sort of, the engine itself wasn't completely from scratch) before anybody could mod it. They then released their creation tools to the public of which I've messed around with, made my own mods, etc, but it's only easy for me or anyone to do that because somebody else (Bethesda) already built a game that's easy to manipulate. Most people modding Skyrim aren't doing anything from scratch, they're using existing art assets and code to generate mods. There are of course a number of mods that are built from scratch but they're few and far between compared to all the other mods that are out there.

 

That being said, Skyrim is one of the easiest games in the world to mod or manipulate. SWTOR on the other hand is not, not even with the Dev Tools. Most of us know that the Hero Engine that powers SWTOR is a nightmare to do anything on but yet Bluerodian in his constant arrogance thinks all of these things are trivial and aren't a problem or difficult by any stretch of the imagination even though he doesn't have the slightest clue what the Hero Engine is like to work in.

 

 

 

Try and remember that when somebody quotes me genius. This is just yet another case of where your constant arrogance does you no favors. "Oh I'll just put him on ignore and won't have to see his posts!" NOPE! Not how it works if someone ends up quoting me.

 

I think he's just trolling now, since he's not making much sense. I look forward to his next request for Klingons, sandpeople and cylons as playable races.

[Darth-Obvious]

To say that something a modder can do using mod tools is easier or is more than the actual devs can accomplish using the same or better tools makes no sense and speaks poorly of the developers.

 

No, it doesn't. What moronic world are you living in?

 

If I want to make a mod in Skyrim that changes Lydia's appearance, it's way easier for me to do something like that than it was for the developers to build Lydia from scratch.

 

Having a fully functional game with art assets, coding, etc, makes it easier on modders. There's something there that already exists as a jumping off point in the case of most of the mods that exist for Skyrim. Modding in Skyrim is easy or easier because of the work Bethesda has already done.

 

You believe that it's easy for Bioware to make a new race in SWTOR just because you can extract and/or edit art assets. Actually you can't even extract the art assets from the game despite all of your arrogant claims, so what does that say about you?

[XiamaraSimi]

If I want to make a mod in Skyrim that changes Lydia's appearance, it's way easier for me to do something like that than it was for the developers to build Lydia from scratch.

 

 

I have a lot of respect for the modders who make -good- character mods for games (because most need them very badly)

 

I emphasized "most" because there are a lot of modders out there whos only concern is making mods that are to change female characters/npcs mammary glands to ridiculous proportions (Im all for my characters looking pretty but they dont need b○○bs 2-3 times larger then their heads )

[wilsonstone]

I have a lot of respect for the modders who make -good- character mods for games (because most need them very badly)

 

I emphasized "most" because there are a lot of modders out there whos only concern is making mods that are to change female characters/npcs mammary glands to ridiculous proportions (Im all for my characters looking pretty but they dont need b○○bs 2-3 times larger then their heads )

 

Ha...remember the "chest" slider in City of Heroes/Villains? I think every male playing a female character maxed that out.

[Foreignobjects]

Speaking of Appearance styles... as races for players like the Companion ones.. i just remembered and did a Class Quest as a Opp where u "Disguised" as a actual droid and u can walk around, so obviously and showing us . theyve proven they coud add this kind of stuff... as i put on my wish list. adding to the Appearance tab/tabs options.

 

You know those little boxes inside your Companions Equipsion box / slots, the appearance one that morphs your companions into totally different colors.., Hair. armor , The Changes are Very different to the basic companion.. now im not saying hey lets add a plain customization tab to the players options... no its not like that exactly... this simply ONLY IN PLAYING MODE, NOT STORY CONVERSATIONS. "baby steps" ,

 

They make the player customization boxes a tad different. as the mission as a opperative in the Agent story line. "Will find a SCreenshot or Vid and post link" , the quest makes you a droid .. Totally changing your body type... to a droid a total form Morph , its awesome. it makes this idea more realistic. having customizations to be a Tranadosian , Wookiee. Rodian , Ithorian, Sullustan , Tagruta , shoot. a Droid even.

 

Even for just a cool thing to add they could theoretically make TONS of Skins , From R2D2, To Darth Vader, pipe dream for ICONIC skins.. whole nether option to this idea, ive been thinking alot about it lately and it could work easily. of course you put this customization to change your form on... but only works while walking around , combat... basically everything but While in conversation which will show your Reg form. which isnt a big deal. cause it is mostly a end game thing for the most part and who wouldnt think this was cool. , i mean.. if u dont wanto use it u dont have to. so. its a win win

ANGEL

THE EMPIRE OF TAW/ TAW EMPIRE

[Darth-Obvious]

Speaking of Appearance styles... as races for players like the Companion ones.. i just remembered and did a Class Quest as a Opp where u "Disguised" as a actual droid and u can walk around, so obviously and showing us . theyve proven they coud add this kind of stuff... as i put on my wish list. adding to the Appearance tab/tabs options.

 

People brought it up at the most recent Cantina Tour and they said it could be added as an item/toy. It doesn't require them to add a new slot anywhere to our character though, just an item.

 

You know those little boxes inside your Companions Equipsion box / slots, the appearance one that morphs your companions into totally different colors.., Hair. armor , The Changes are Very different to the basic companion.. now im not saying hey lets add a plain customization tab to the players options... no its not like that exactly... this simply ONLY IN PLAYING MODE, NOT STORY CONVERSATIONS. "baby steps"

 

They make the player customization boxes a tad different. as the mission as a opperative in the Agent story line. "Will find a SCreenshot or Vid and post link" , the quest makes you a droid .. Totally changing your body type... to a droid a total form Morph , its awesome. it makes this idea more realistic. having customizations to be a Tranadosian , Wookiee. Rodian , Ithorian, Sullustan , Tagruta , shoot. a Droid even.

 

That wouldn't work. The player characters aren't built the same way the companion characters are. That's why companions can't use the Outfit Designer. It's why companions couldn't use the hide head slot or unify color features when they were first introduced.

 

What you're talking about is a way overly complicated process for something that only requires an item in your inventory that you could right click on. The Droid Disguise is a mission item that could easily be turned into a toy like the Holo Disguise.

[wilsonstone]

People brought it up at the most recent Cantina Tour and they said it could be added as an item/toy. It doesn't require them to add a new slot anywhere to our character though, just an item.

 

 

 

That wouldn't work. The player characters aren't built the same way the companion characters are. That's why companions can't use the Outfit Designer. It's why companions couldn't use the hide head slot or unify color features when they were first introduced.

 

What you're talking about is a way overly complicated process for something that only requires an item in your inventory that you could right click on. The Droid Disguise is a mission item that could easily be turned into a toy like the Holo Disguise.

Darth you obviously have a lot of knowledge on this stuff. Is there any feasibl way that a "disguise" could work for a player character? I am just asking, but if there was a way to use a disguise of a trandie or wookie....well, it wouldn't calm down the vocal masses, but it might make headway.

 

I say 'might' because there are far too many things I personally would care about for the devs to do...and we've already spoken about how they aren't gonna do stuff that isn't in some way going to turn a profit. If a 'disguise' is in any way possible I will rescind my earlier post about trandoshans NEVER being a playable species.

 

Though if they were ever made one I'd probably start a guild on a foundation of hunting down all trandoshan players and killing them. Just to rid the universe o the growly-talk voices.