MC80 Cruiser vs Imperial Star Destroyer

[Ghisallo]

Actually no, there aren't any other sources that contradict the armaments of an ISD.

.

 

I was referring to contradictions on the "HOME" class and how you took extreme low end as noted here...

 

Though there is conflicting issues with the Fighter compliment, one source says 120 and two other sources say 36. I'm tending to go with the 36 one, because 120 just doesn't seem right, especially considering an MC80 is smaller than an ISD.

 

I just noted how the different geometry of the ship and the fact it has multiple fighter bays make it possible for it to be at least equal to an ISDs compliment, though even I admit near doubling it seems extreme.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ghisallo]

Wasnt the Home One type larger AND stronger then the A OR B type. I was under the imperession the Home one Type was the biggest and Strongest of the MC80's....

 

In the time of the movies at first yes...but the MC80a was introduced in the video games as "bigger" and the B was first introduced in the Courtship of Princess Leia and was powerful enough to still be effective during the Vong war.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I was referring to contradictions on the "HOME" class and how you took extreme low end as noted here...

 

 

 

I just noted how the different geometry of the ship and the fact it has multiple fighter bays make it possible for it to be at least equal to an ISDs compliment, though even I admit near doubling it seems extreme.

 

I fixed my error in another post, yes Home One does have the 120 fighters, I didn't see it the first read through. However that Home One was Ackbar's personal flagship and it was tailored towards Ion attacks and fighter compliment.

 

So Ackbar's Home One, yes it does have 120 starfighters.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Ghisallo]

I fixed my error in another post, yes Home One does have the 120 fighters, I didn't see it the first read through. However that Home One was Ackbar's personal flagship and it was tailored towards Ion attacks and fighter compliment.

 

So Ackbar's Home One, yes it does have 120 starfighters.

 

And this is why, to an extent, I think comparing the MC80s (universally) to ISDs is a loosing battle. The Empire basically made things to Spec. The Rebel Alliance didn't. The Alliance lacked the resources to have specifically purpose built ship classes. This Nebulon B is an escort frigate...that one a hospital frigate. This MC80 is designed to be a "battle ship" that MC80 designed to be more of a carrier with lots of Ion guns to allow the fighters to be more effective against capital ships. So you almost have to compare specific MC80's to either ISDs or ISD 2's.

 

It really doesn't seem that they start standardizing the vessels until the MC80B BUT that is a vessel designed by a bona fide government with full access to all of the resources the Alliance either lacked or had limited access to.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Wolfninjajedi]

And this is why, to an extent, I think comparing the MC80s (universally) to ISDs is a loosing battle. The Empire basically made things to Spec. The Rebel Alliance didn't. The Alliance lacked the resources to have specifically purpose built ship classes. This Nebulon B is an escort frigate...that one a hospital frigate. This MC80 is designed to be a "battle ship" that MC80 designed to be more of a carrier with lots of Ion guns to allow the fighters to be more effective against capital ships. So you almost have to compare specific MC80's to either ISDs or ISD 2's.

 

It really doesn't seem that they start standardizing the vessels until the MC80B BUT that is a vessel designed by a bona fide government with full access to all of the resources the Alliance either lacked or had limited access to.

 

Well I'm just going by what Sourcebooks say, now it would seem to me some designs are different, but this just being aesthetic design and nothing more from what I'm reading.

 

But each Sourcebook I have says the same thing in regarding armament and fighter compliment to combat MC cruisers, meaning Liberty type and Home One, exception being Ackbar's flagship and other named vessels.

 

So there is a standard MC cruiser here, it's even noted in the Essential Guide to Vehicles/Vessels that there is a standard MC80 design.

 

Even Standard Mon Cal MC80 cruisers maintain 3 squadrons of starfighters(36 starfighters), 48 turbolasers, 20 Ion cannons and 6 tractor beams.

 

- Taken from Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Ghisallo]

Whatever... Because there are also source books that talk about how modular the ships were in terms of being able to add and remove weapons and repurpose the ships quickly for different functions but how this same lack of standardization drove techs nuts when it came to servicing the vessels. Hey look Star Wars EU books contradicting each other....I am shocked....not!

 

Additionally it is noted...

 

It is noted in the books that the MC80 (not a or B) Mon Calamari cruiser made up for fewer hard mounted weapons (which I of course conceed) with a better all-around firing arc, compared to the Star Destroyer which could project firepower effectively to the front and sides but not the rear. They also had highly accurate targeting computers, giving them an advantage in long-range battles. (Though originally only Mon Calamari could exploit this as the sensors were designed for their eyes and not other species.)

 

Regardless though the OP noted A, B and Home class. So using the OP's basis the Mon Calamari cruiser wins...even if we want to say the Home doesn't because fighter compliment doesn't count.

[Anishor]

In taking that account now, the ISD does indeed outclass the MC80 in both firepower and fighter numbers. Sure the MC has better quality fighters, but this doesn't mean much.

 

The TIE fighter and X-wing have the same firepower output with the TIE fighter have a slight edge. The TIE fighter is also more agile and maneuverable than the X-wing, while the X-wing has shielding and durability.

 

The TIE Interceptor matches the A-wing, so nuff said there.

 

Some other stuff, but not in the mood to go into all that.

 

This argument is amusing. The starfighters are the entire base of the Alliance's Fleet power. Hell squad destroys a b-wings destroys 2 ISDs in the battle of endor. They say Squad, not squadron so it's hard to determine the number, a squad might refer to a whole squadron or two fights of four.

 

This isn't SWG's JTL or EoW (which had horrible balance for fighters v capships) . The X-wing overpowered the Tie Fighter by a wide margin, both in firepower and defenses. The Tie-Interceptor was deployed shortly after the X-wing and is a response to the X-wing, not the A-wing which came later and is suppose to be the fastest production line fighter. the Eyeball comes /close/ to the A-wing but doesn't surpass it. Only the T/A and the t/Def have shields and neither were produced at any scale. Shields would be a massive advantage. Please remember that in ANH, the rebels all have ZERO rear shields, hence the them getting killed in 1 or 2 shots.

[Vaalin]

The TIE fighter and X-wing have the same firepower output with the TIE fighter have a slight edge. The TIE fighter is also more agile and maneuverable than the X-wing, while the X-wing has shielding and durability.

 

Late to the show but I had to chime in on this one. The TIE Fighter does not even come close to having the same firepower as an X-Wing, Quad Laser Cannons + Dual Proton Torpedo launchers give the X-Wing a huge edge on the firepower scale. Also the standard TIE is only more maneuverable in space, as soon as you throw atmosphere in the mix the X-Wing takes the edge. Every single check box minus vacuum maneuverability goes to the X-Wing. Also when specifically mentioning Mon Calamari ships the MC-80 class can not be given to Home One. Home One was a ship all on its own, not a class, literally one of a kind. It was far larger and far more equipped than other Mon Cal ships.

[Ghisallo]

In taking that account now, the ISD does indeed outclass the MC80 in both firepower and fighter numbers. Sure the MC has better quality fighters, but this doesn't mean much.

 

The TIE fighter and X-wing have the same firepower output with the TIE fighter have a slight edge. The TIE fighter is also more agile and maneuverable than the X-wing, while the X-wing has shielding and durability.

 

The TIE Interceptor matches the A-wing, so nuff said there.

 

Some other stuff, but not in the mood to go into all that.

 

How did I miss this? The Tie Fighter was piss poor compared to an X-Wing in terms of firepower and defense. The Interceptor was the Empire's answer to the X-wing...then the A-wing came out...trickier to fly but faster, more maneuverable and with comparable firepower.

 

The entire reason the Rebellion got as far as they did prior to Endor was due to the fact they used a doctrine that relied a lot of superior fighters that had their own hyperdrives so they did not need as many Capital Ships and such.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Wolfninjajedi]

Of course you guys completely missed the my post, but I probably should have clarified on that.

 

Tune when I spoke firepower I was speaking of laser cannons only, not taking into account the proton torpedoes.

 

When I mean the TIE Interceptor matches the A-wing, I was meaning in speed, not that it was designed for battle against the A-wing.

 

Also yes, the TIE fighter is more maneuverable and agile than the X-wing, the X-wing however is superior in regards to shielding and durability and hyperdrive and all the other stuff.

 

However still it TIE fighters were still able to destroy and or damage X-wings.

 

Ok switch it around I doubled checked the X-wing had a marginal firepower output with it's laser cannons, but tbh it doesn't make much a difference.

 

Heck you guys completely missed the point where I said the Rebels have superior fighters yet are outclassed in numbers only. I was just covering, what each fighter has in common with the other,

 

Plus the Empire has more than just the standard TIE fighter and Interceptor, sure not in abundance but even still the ISD carried more than just the standard TIE.

 

I wasn't siding with the Empire in terms of TIE fighter/interceptor comparison to what the Mon Cal ships have.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[raandomname]

Any other thoughts on MC80a/MC80B vs Imperial Star Destroyer?

[Ghisallo]

Any other thoughts on MC80a/MC80B vs Imperial Star Destroyer?

 

Think the A is basically "the equal" and the b was purposefully built to outgun the ISD. At least that's my call.

[tunewalker]

I personally find them all Equal.

 

Yes, if the MC80 sits in the main guns of the Star Destroyer it will have an issue, but if's better coverage and specifically usual better placing of the shields means Either can win Either can lose.

 

The 2 perfectly mirror each other in the style of the opponent that Wielded it. The Empire needed to win, and win quickly so that the Rebels could not escape, so they used Overwhelming Firepower of the Imp Stardestroyer, its very sight inspiring fear in those that faced it. While the MC80 was built with the idea to return enough firepower whilst holding off the Imp, it was the Rebels ANSWER to the Imp Stardestroyer, one that could stick around and get into position, and if played right was their best chance at taking down a Imp Stardestroyer 1v1. And that's just it, both can win, both can lose the deciding factor is MUCH more the commanders of the ships not the ships themselves.

[Sindorin]

Should I even point out that the fleet's doctrine was that ISD's weren't to be used in direct ship to ship engagements unless a breakout was attempted? ISD's are siege engines and used to control the battlefield, not drive them. Mon Cal 80's are faster, more maneuverable and better suited at ship to ship combat than a Star Destroyer. They're cheaper to build, given that most are converted luxury star liner with weapons retro fitted to them. Taking into account all these things, the MC80 wins, hands down, because there will be three of them, not one - versus that single, expensive ISD.