[LETHALITY] Corrosive Dart damage not matching tooltip?

[dbears]

TL;DR.. solved my own problem by doing some experimenting. Bioware needs to fix the tooltip which doesn't update when you get the extra 6 seconds from Lethality. Take a read anyway if you want lol.

 

My Corrosive Dart tooltip says "..deal 5021 internal damage over 24 seconds." My Corrosive Grenade tooltip says "..dealing 5912 internal damage over 24 seconds." Knowing that both durations are the same, it would make sense that Corrosive Grenade would do more per tick that Corrosive Dart since 5912 > 5021 right?

 

Well that's not the case.

 

My Corrosive Dart hits for 717 on the initial hit (no procs, debuffs, etc.) so with that plus the 8 ticks over the 24 seconds, it deals 717 x 9 = 6453 damage.

 

My Corrosive Grenade hits for 657 on the initial hit (no procs, debuffs, etc.) and I know it debuffs the target to take more internal/elemental damage, but it doesn't appear to affect the initial hit (makes sense). So 657 x 9 = 5913 which is only 1 damage more than the tooltip which i guess can be accounted for when rounding or something.

 

..

 

After i wrote all that i decided to drop Lethality as a Discipline and try Corrosive Dart without the extra 6 seconds. The tooltip didn't change, and it still ticked for 717 damage. Aaaaaand 717 x 7 = 5019 which is practically 5021 like the tooltip says. So i guess the tooltip doesn't get updated when you take Lethality to account for the increased duration.

 

I'm posting this anyway so maybe someone at Bioware will see it and fix it.

[Vakyoom]

Good catch, sadly that's not the only thing that feels underwhelming in Lethality...

[Adovir]

TL;DR.. solved my own problem by doing some experimenting. Bioware needs to fix the tooltip which doesn't update when you get the extra 6 seconds from Lethality. Take a read anyway if you want lol.

 

My Corrosive Dart tooltip says "..deal 5021 internal damage over 24 seconds." My Corrosive Grenade tooltip says "..dealing 5912 internal damage over 24 seconds." Knowing that both durations are the same, it would make sense that Corrosive Grenade would do more per tick that Corrosive Dart since 5912 > 5021 right?

 

Well that's not the case.

 

My Corrosive Dart hits for 717 on the initial hit (no procs, debuffs, etc.) so with that plus the 8 ticks over the 24 seconds, it deals 717 x 9 = 6453 damage.

 

My Corrosive Grenade hits for 657 on the initial hit (no procs, debuffs, etc.) and I know it debuffs the target to take more internal/elemental damage, but it doesn't appear to affect the initial hit (makes sense). So 657 x 9 = 5913 which is only 1 damage more than the tooltip which i guess can be accounted for when rounding or something.

 

..

 

After i wrote all that i decided to drop Lethality as a Discipline and try Corrosive Dart without the extra 6 seconds. The tooltip didn't change, and it still ticked for 717 damage. Aaaaaand 717 x 7 = 5019 which is practically 5021 like the tooltip says. So i guess the tooltip doesn't get updated when you take Lethality to account for the increased duration.

 

I'm posting this anyway so maybe someone at Bioware will see it and fix it.

 

Throw this in the pts, I know it'll be a little hard to gette Devs to see because of all the sniper and slinger Q.Q but it's worth a shot

[Dropfall]

Slight hijack to the thread, but damn, without crits, dart proc or without Cut Down the combined damage from both DoTs, is 515 DPS or 772.9 Dmg per GCD. Even Rifle Shot does more Dmg per GCD.

[Armadyil]

Slight hijack to the thread, but damn, without crits, dart proc or without Cut Down the combined damage from both DoTs, is 515 DPS or 772.9 Dmg per GCD. Even Rifle Shot does more Dmg per GCD.

 

I like to play Lethality, but I actually think this is a good thing. Both our DoT's are spammable, and corrosive grenade even is AoE. If they would deal considerable damage, lots of baddies would double dot everyone and still do a good job. Now, you must use Cut Down and Toxic Blast to make your DoT's count (Both active accounts for a 70-80% DoT damage increase).

[Dropfall]

I like to play Lethality, but I actually think this is a good thing. Both our DoT's are spammable, and corrosive grenade even is AoE. If they would deal considerable damage, lots of baddies would double dot everyone and still do a good job. Now, you must use Cut Down and Toxic Blast to make your DoT's count (Both active accounts for a 70-80% DoT damage increase).

 

I would agree with you, but the other abilities we have bar maybe a 3 Crit Toxic Assault don't hit hard enough to warrant so little damage from our DoTs. Cut Down buff, only buffs 2 ticks of each; combined dmg of 1645 (goes up when you crit obviously or proc the Dart), which is only a 275 dmg difference. Also Toxic Blast only benefits from 3 ticks of each DoT (around 2000-3000 dmg), which is why spamming as many Corrosive Assaults during the buff is important for DPS.

 

All in all they're quite pathetic damage numbers really.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Dropfall

[Armadyil]

I would agree with you, but the other abilities we have bar maybe a 3 Crit Toxic Assault don't hit hard enough to warrant so little damage from our DoTs. Cut Down buff, only buffs 2 ticks of each; combined dmg of 1645 (goes up when you crit obviously or proc the Dart), which is only a 275 dmg difference. Also Toxic Blast only benefits from 3 ticks of each DoT (around 2000-3000 dmg), which is why spamming as many Corrosive Assaults during the buff is important for DPS.

 

All in all they're quite pathetic damage numbers really.

 

Meh, I don't complain about the DPS a Lethality Ops can do, but maybe this helps a bit. I run with quite some Alacrity (7.15 %). Nowadays, this makes your DoT's tick faster. This causes more ticks to fall in the Cut Down and Toxic Blast timeframes (AND makes the setup time shorter). You can have Toxic Blast active 2/3 of the time, so getting your Cor. Assault in the timeframe is doable.

 

Then, and I know there is a lot of controversy about this, I often say that Lethality is not a sustained damage spec, but rather (delayed) burst. So the overall low damage the DoT's do, is of less importance, as long as you can maximise your damage, both DoT's and Lethal Strike + Cor. Assault, in a short timeframe. In this case, Fluff Damage + Pathetic Numbers = Quite Decent Damage Actually And this QDDA is ticking while you get your hard hitters out.

 

Also, I think you are a little pessimistic about the numbers; when your DoTs are active before you use Cut Down and Toxic Blast, I'm pretty sure there are more than 2 or 3 ticks per DoT in the respective timeframes. The amount of ticks goes up the more Alacrity you have (with how much is hard to calculate I'd say). Also, you don't count crits, while DoT's have a +10% crit chance, so this might be significant.

 

So it's not that I say that the damage is amazing, but it is background damage during your burst and essential for the spec. I fear that if the standard damage goes up, more baddies will DoT spam and make Lethality a hated sight in warzones. The Cut Down timeframe is rather short, I'd support increasing it to 8 or 10 sec, but I'm fine with the standard DoT damage.

[dbears]

@armadyil, alacrity increasing your DOT speed isn't difficult to calculate

 

With 7.15%, you go 24 x 0.0715 = 1.72.

Then 24 - 1.72 = 22.28.

Since your DOTs tick 8 times (not including the initial hit), it's 22.28 ÷ 8 = 2.79

Your DOTs tick every 2.79s as opposed to the standard 3.00s

 

Since Toxic Blast lasts 10 seconds, you'll still only get 3 DOT ticks in its' window. You'd have to get your DOT speed down to 2.5s, or almost 17% alacrity so get an extra tick in Toxic Blasts' window. Even then, you'd have to time it perfectly to get all 4 ticks in. So you'd likely need 18%+ alacrity to get 4 ticks in (or have a Merc give you Celerity )

 

As for Cut Down, since it's only 6 seconds, you'll never get any more than 2 ticks in that window. You'd need 33% alacrity (lol) to speed your DOTs up to 2.00s. But similarly to Toxic Blast, timing it perfectly is just not feasible, so I'd say like 35%+ if you want more ticks in the Cut Down window lol.

 

Anyway, I'm in a mash up of 186/192 gear, picked Lethality up the other day and I'm parsing 4100-4200 on the dummy. I'm satisfied with that. The DOTs aren't supposed to be a huge contributor to damage. At least in my parses my Corrosive Assault accounts for 45%+ of my damage and it should probably be higher haha.

[Armadyil]

@armadyil, alacrity increasing your DOT speed isn't difficult to calculate

 

With 7.15%, you go 24 x 0.0715 = 1.72.

Then 24 - 1.72 = 22.28.

Since your DOTs tick 8 times (not including the initial hit), it's 22.28 ÷ 8 = 2.79

Your DOTs tick every 2.79s as opposed to the standard 3.00s

 

Since Toxic Blast lasts 10 seconds, you'll still only get 3 DOT ticks in its' window. You'd have to get your DOT speed down to 2.5s, or almost 17% alacrity so get an extra tick in Toxic Blasts' window. Even then, you'd have to time it perfectly to get all 4 ticks in. So you'd likely need 18%+ alacrity to get 4 ticks in (or have a Merc give you Celerity )

 

As for Cut Down, since it's only 6 seconds, you'll never get any more than 2 ticks in that window. You'd need 33% alacrity (lol) to speed your DOTs up to 2.00s. But similarly to Toxic Blast, timing it perfectly is just not feasible, so I'd say like 35%+ if you want more ticks in the Cut Down window lol.

 

Anyway, I'm in a mash up of 186/192 gear, picked Lethality up the other day and I'm parsing 4100-4200 on the dummy. I'm satisfied with that. The DOTs aren't supposed to be a huge contributor to damage. At least in my parses my Corrosive Assault accounts for 45%+ of my damage and it should probably be higher haha.

 

K, thx for the calculus

[Adovir]

Honestly, the dots last waaaay too long. I will admit that I have forgotten about them because they last 24 seconds, if they took out the 6second longer talent and kept the damage the same I would be completely fine with that, hell change the intervol to 2 seconds instead of 3, get more hits during the TB window, even more if you have stim boost active, assuming armadyil 7.15% it would be 17.15 so 2*.8285=1.657 intervol you would be able to almost fit 6 ticks in TB which would feed a lot of E-peen PVErs and give a little QoL buff that I wouldn't mind

[dbears]

Ya 24 seconds is too long. But at least it's not 30 like Scorch in Pro

 

They could keep the overall damage the same, but reduce the duration to 18s maybe? So with my numbers, that'd be 6453 ÷ 7 = 922 per tick for Corrosive Dart and 5912 ÷ 7 = 845 per tick for Corrosive Grenade. Maybe Bioware thinks that's too high for DOTs?

 

I'm also curious what that's do to energy management (if anything).

[Saikochoro]

Then, and I know there is a lot of controversy about this, I often say that Lethality is not a sustained damage spec, but rather (delayed) burst. So the overall low damage the DoT's do, is of less importance, as long as you can maximise your damage, both DoT's and Lethal Strike + Cor. Assault, in a short timeframe. In this case, Fluff Damage + Pathetic Numbers = Quite Decent Damage Actually And this QDDA is ticking while you get your hard hitters out.

 

Honestly this is how I think of lethality as well. I don't care too much about how much damage the dots do. It would be nice for them to do a bit more damage, but I'm mainly concerned about corrosive assault. In the PTS there a bunch of people saying that corrosive assault makes up too much of the damage of lethality ops. I tend to disagree. I think it should make up a majority of your damage as it constitutes your burst. It is your heavy hitter and should be a priority. Heck I'd be happy if they buffed it to do more damage. All this coming from pvp perspective. I don't care about fluff numbers. Honestly the only reason I really use the dots is to set up corrosive assault. That's why I don't try spreading corrosive dart and I don't often put in on someone I'm not focusing. I care about using the dots to set up my burst and then going in for the kill.

 

If dots do too much damage then you'll have a bunch of useless dot spammers...ugh.

[Armadyil]

Honestly the only reason I really use the dots is to set up corrosive assault. That's why I don't try spreading corrosive dart and I don't often put in on someone I'm not focusing. I care about using the dots to set up my burst and then going in for the kill.

 

If dots do too much damage then you'll have a bunch of useless dot spammers...ugh.

 

Exactly Also the reason why I don't mind lacking a (reliable) DoT spread.

 

Honestly, the dots last waaaay too long. I will admit that I have forgotten about them because they last 24 seconds, if they took out the 6second longer talent and kept the damage the same I would be completely fine with that

 

Could help, but the last thing I want is putting more time into applying DoTs and setting 'm up. Not that I'm complaining about Leth's setup time, but I kind of like the long time they're active. On the other hand, that 30s Scorch is so frustrating when someone put it on you just before he died, and you can't go into stealth for bloody half a minute!! So I understand your point, but hope they leave it like it is

[Adovir]

Honestly this is how I think of lethality as well. I don't care too much about how much damage the dots do. It would be nice for them to do a bit more damage, but I'm mainly concerned about corrosive assault. In the PTS there a bunch of people saying that corrosive assault makes up too much of the damage of lethality ops. I tend to disagree. I think it should make up a majority of your damage as it constitutes your burst. It is your heavy hitter and should be a priority. Heck I'd be happy if they buffed it to do more damage. All this coming from pvp perspective. I don't care about fluff numbers. Honestly the only reason I really use the dots is to set up corrosive assault. That's why I don't try spreading corrosive dart and I don't often put in on someone I'm not focusing. I care about using the dots to set up my burst and then going in for the kill.

 

If dots do too much damage then you'll have a bunch of useless dot spammers...ugh.

 

I think the reason why ppl are worried about the damage it does is kind of like why they redistributed damage on DV for tank sins and put it on discharge, because it caused a lot of damage to be lost against a smart player, stunning/knocking back during DV would kill their damage.

 

Uhh my head hurts right now or I would say more and probably throw in a ****** witty joke about dot spread @.@

 

Oh BTW armadyil I'm going to be moving my OP over to ToFN soon, just gotta think of a new name for him bc my scoundrel is using it so be ready

[Armadyil]

Oh BTW armadyil I'm going to be moving my OP over to ToFN soon, just gotta think of a new name for him bc my scoundrel is using it so be ready

 

Can't wait!