Kaggath Battlegrounds Final: Republic Resistance vs Imperial Droid Division

[StarSquirrel]

'Your own version of events' Who out of the two of us is stating it is nearly impossible to detect or capture IG-88? I am sorry for attempting to make arguments against him soloing entire pieces of my faction. I see now the irony pointed out by Beni in people complaining about strong Force Users when characters like IG-88, whom according to you can basically defeat anything, are allowed.

First off, I am merely basing my position off of recorded feats. IG-88 conducted a systematic infiltration undetected of the Empire's highly-secured droid infrastructure and nearly brought the entire Empire down right under the nose of Sidious and Vader themselves. So... yeah...

 

Thing is, aside from Durge, IG-88, and only one or two other non-force users there are almost no non-force users of this caliber. There are significantly fewer characters in the non-force category of this skill level than there are force-users. And excuse me for basing my argument off of feats and displayed skill instead of random assumptions.

 

I'll also note, that if this was Yavin, or Hoth, etc... this tactic wouldn't work. The tactics being thrown out here are situational. This just happens to be an ideal situation for him that fits into what he know he can and would do...

Edited May 16, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[LadyKulvax]

Which in essence is the issue, IG-88 is unbeatable in this Kaggath, Sil can lol his way around everything I have, be it Kuat, ships, droids, intelligence. I literally don't have anything that can defeat him if he can just roflstomp whilst my faction rolls over itself wondering what is going on. Sil doesn't actually need the rest of the IDD to win in this match, IG-88 can do it by himself.

 

If he's allowed in the next tournament I doubt I'll even bother, it's too easy for the situation to reflect his abilities perfectly and allow an easy victory. He is the Starkiller or Thrawn of his character type and they were banned for exactly that reason.

 

He can't be detected, he can't be stopped, he's all but won the match out of the gate. You are right concerning situation, this was something Beni seemed to take into account in all previous Kaggaths and so made the battleground not too exploitable, this stopped him from being too powerful and game-changing. This time however Beni hasn't done that, in this setting he's perfectly set to almost single-handedly win.

Edited May 16, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[Selenial]

Which in essence is the issue, IG-88 is unbeatable in this Kaggath, Sil can lol his way around everything I have, be it Kuat, ships, droids, intelligence. I literally don't have anything that can defeat him if he can just roflstomp whilst my faction rolls over itself wondering what is going on. Sil doesn't actually need the rest of the IDD to win in this match, IG-88 can do it by himself.

 

Ok, I'm going to be painfully honest here. You're literally complaining that Sil has made a better faction than you. IG-88 is only strong because in comparison, you have nothing that can do the same to Silenceo's forces. You cannot infiltrate his faction, you cannot use Battle Meditation against them, you cannot simply bully them with numbers, you can't use Strike teams and you can't starve them through choke holes. That's because his faction is well crafted, he managed to create all of this without an Ally, leaving him an open Ally spot for someone insanely free-moving and self dependent.

 

Yes, IG-88 can take out shipyards or a Star Destroyer, but he is no help in open warfare. If Silenceo's faction wasn't so perfectly crafted IG-88 would be his downfall, but it is, and it is in every way a perfect counter to yours.

 

And I must admit, I find this argument a little rich, given your arguments on Battle Meditation in your previous two Kaggaths.

 

That's not even me being butthurt, whether those arguments are correct or not doesn't matter in this regard. There are always going to be factors, powers or people that are flexible and can be used to counter many things. Just suck it up and work around it, IG-88 has counters, you just need to think.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

Concerning organisations, this puts into play exactly what I hoped, this is an entire galaxy spanning intelligence organization facing off against an agency designed for hunting specific individuals. The information and infiltration resources may well cripple any operations attempted by the Inquisitorious, they will be many steps ahead by sheer virtue of number and resources. Setting traps well in advanced and even sending small armies of top clones to hunt them down is well within their capabilities. Having Director Isard, one of the best in the lore at his job will only increase their efficiency.

They can't dispatch agents in large quantities are you are suggesting, and when it comes to shadows wars quality > quantity. So I would not assume that Republic Intelligence has the Inquisitorius beat by virtue of size alone.

Out of curiosity, named Inquisitors, yay or nay?

No named Inquisitors I'm afraid.

If they get aboard a vessel, it is basically doomed since all the Jedi, Windu, and likely Nek are all on Corellia.

I'd just like to point out that the Resistance's fleet is not too heavily damaged, I'm sure that Kuat could send the necessary materials to repair the fleet on site. And I am sure that Nek will expect to attempt to exploit the opportunities moving the fleet or portions of it to Kuat would leave.

 

In regards to infiltration itself, IG-88 may be able to approach undetected but getting aboard is a different story. Either he accesses a hangar or an airlock, any one way will alert the crew.

 

Finally Nek might expect further infiltration from IG-88, so he may put countermeasures in place. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if the black box of the Imperious was recovered to research into just how it was disabled.

 

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more problematic it becomes, the hangars on both the Acclamators and the Venators will be sealed, and I don't think it has airlocks, so I think IG-88 will have to be more inventive to get on board.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

Hmm.

 

I wonder when RR supporters will realize that they have already countered IG's hacking strategies by virtue of the faction itself...

[raandomname]

No named Inquisitors I'm afraid.

This does seem a bit iffy to me, seeing how RI gets Isard as a named character who has repeatedly been brought up as a very important and useful asset.

[Beniboybling]

The Kiris Shipyards were secret and no one here knows about them... Even Nek didn't know about them initially. Even then, are we really permitting them? I mean Corellia has shipyards of its own not counting Kiris, yet I don't see those being brought up. Plus this has never happened in any Kaggath prior, though I believe there has never been a Kaggath on a planet with a shipyard before.

 

I think Beni needs to clarify if you're permitted to repair at Corellia at all. It hasn't been done in any prior Kaggath and I don't see why Corellia would just give you access to the shipyards... Since it is a warzone I'd say it'd be safe to assume the Kiris shipyard was never built and the normal Corellian Shipyards are in shambles due to the war going on over control of it.

 

Edit: Yes Nek did discover them, but I hold to the idea that even if they existed they'd be unusable.

Seeing as Coreillia owes much of its industry to shipbuilding, its likely to have shipbuilding facilities across its industrial sectors, however these zones are neutral territory, and would have to be captured first.

 

So they could be used, but considering the proximity of Kuat its hardly necessary.

[Beniboybling]

This does seem a bit iffy to me, seeing how RI gets Isard as a named character who has repeatedly been brought up as a very important and useful asset.

No named Inquisitors aside from leadership.

[Silenceo]

No named Inquisitors aside from leadership.

 

*Waves Hand* Since Jerec is the Grand Inquisitor these days, you want to give me Mr. Abomination...

 

:D

 

Come on .0001% chance!

 

Ok, I'm going to be painfully honest here. You're literally complaining that Sil has made a better faction than you. IG-88 is only strong because in comparison, you have nothing that can do the same to Silenceo's forces. You cannot infiltrate his faction, you cannot use Battle Meditation against them, you cannot simply bully them with numbers, you can't use Strike teams and you can't starve them through choke holes. That's because his faction is well crafted, he managed to create all of this without an Ally, leaving him an open Ally spot for someone insanely free-moving and self dependent.

 

Yes, IG-88 can take out shipyards or a Star Destroyer, but he is no help in open warfare. If Silenceo's faction wasn't so perfectly crafted IG-88 would be his downfall, but it is, and it is in every way a perfect counter to yours.

 

And I must admit, I find this argument a little rich, given your arguments on Battle Meditation in your previous two Kaggaths.

 

That's not even me being butthurt, whether those arguments are correct or not doesn't matter in this regard. There are always going to be factors, powers or people that are flexible and can be used to counter many things. Just suck it up and work around it, IG-88 has counters, you just need to think.

 

Not so sure about perfectly crafted... but IG-88 is certainly a compliment to the IDD rather than the IDD a compliment to IG-88. As for the rest... :o :o

 

In regards to infiltration itself, IG-88 may be able to approach undetected but getting aboard is a different story. Either he accesses a hangar or an airlock, any one way will alert the crew.

 

Finally Nek might expect further infiltration from IG-88, so he may put countermeasures in place. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if the black box of the Imperious was recovered to research into just how it was disabled.

 

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more problematic it becomes, the hangars on both the Acclamators and the Venators will be sealed, and I don't think it has airlocks, so I think IG-88 will have to be more inventive to get on board.

 

The large hangers on the Venator's might indeed be sealed, but do the hangers on their sides have the same capability, or the ones on the belly? Even if so, there are multiple airlocks as you mentioned. Now, if an alarm is unavoidable, it might be possible for them all to be tripped instead of a single one, and even if the alarms are set off, there is a trick that IG-88 could pull (of course...).

 

from wiki:

 

" IG-2000 also contained sophisticated computer and communications equipment that allowed IG-88 to use his programming skills to attempt to slice enemy ship systems remotely in order to weaken them before battle. "

 

Though, I do wonder at the possibility of the IG-2000 flying itself or by wifi with IG-2000... Or at the very least, detaching from the airlock and drifting in stealth until called. This method I am unsure if it has a precedant (the wifi control of it I mean).

 

As for the black box... I had forgotten about that. I admit, that is a good point, though I wonder how wide its access across the ship is, or if it is like a steel trap? (I ask because I am unsure what IG-88 would know, and what he would do, mostly just thinking over possibilities now).

 

As for the Acclamator's, that is why the Venator's would have their computer systems taken over from the bridge and sent to a collision course with them, with the reactors set to blow. Now, once the first one gets hit, no doubt the crews and such will tighten up everything and be on high alert. This might mean that IG-88 can only take out one ship before being forced to wait for the return of the IDD fleet to hit another. (Of course, if the RR fleet heads towards Sullust before the time table says the ships would be repaired, he could follow them or latch on before they go into hyperspace)

Edited May 16, 2015 by Silenceo

[Jarons]

Hey I would like to note even with the resistance being able tp repair it's ships faster then the IDD.The IDD on the otherhand really just need to Repair the Vengeance which can tank your remanding fleet with ease.So More them likely Trench will have Sullust only Repair The Vengeance that alone can break the Blockade.Which will free IG-88 to troll on the ground. Edited May 16, 2015 by Jarons

[Selenial]

Also can someone explain to me why planetary shipyards that create Hundreds of Star Destroyers at a time would supposedly take a long time to repair the Vengeance?

 

A 17km long Warship housed enough repair droids to fix itself from critically damaged to near fighting condition, the entire Sullust shipyards would bring the Vengeance back online in a day, maybe two.

[Wolfninjajedi]

 

from wiki:

 

" IG-2000 also contained sophisticated computer and communications equipment that allowed IG-88 to use his programming skills to attempt to slice enemy ship systems remotely in order to weaken them before battle. "

 

 

That's gameplay, the IG-2000 doesn't actually have that ability.

[Silenceo]

That's gameplay, the IG-2000 doesn't actually have that ability.

 

Wolf, can we send a nuke to the IG-2000 page? It seems like so much on it is incorrect!

 

Side Note: Sel, your PM box is full.

[Beniboybling]

The large hangers on the Venator's might indeed be sealed, but do the hangers on their sides have the same capability, or the ones on the belly? Even if so, there are multiple airlocks as you mentioned. Now, if an alarm is unavoidable, it might be possible for them all to be tripped instead of a single one, and even if the alarms are set off, there is a trick that IG-88 could pull (of course...)

Yes, the hangars on the side are in fact sealed most of the time. All hangars as far as I'm aware, can be sealed.

 

I actually said I don't think there are any, however many starships had them, so it could... but they would have to aquire the schematics for the Venator and/or the Acclamator to be able to locate those access locations.

As for the Acclamator's, that is why the Venator's would have their computer systems taken over from the bridge and sent to a collision course with them, with the reactors set to blow. Now, once the first one gets hit, no doubt the crews and such will tighten up everything and be on high alert. This might mean that IG-88 can only take out one ship before being forced to wait for the return of the IDD fleet to hit another. (Of course, if the RR fleet heads towards Sullust before the time table says the ships would be repaired, he could follow them or latch on before they go into hyperspace)

True, but if the crew are in control of the bridge, they could override that, and Nek might have some contingencies in place, like a manual shut down of the reactor, if he suspects another hacking attempt.

 

And if it works, they might just power down all the ships until IG-88 is found, might even have Windu on speed dial.

 

Heck, maybe Nek will lure him into a trap... an interesting possibility to consider, with the fleet as bait...

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wolf, can we send a nuke to the IG-2000 page? It seems like so much on it is incorrect!

 

Side Note: Sel, your PM box is full.

 

It's not just the IG-2000 page, it's many pages on Wookiee because people like to make up stuff or put in wrong sources to get people to think it's an actual thing...when it's not.

[Beniboybling]

Also can someone explain to me why planetary shipyards that create Hundreds of Star Destroyers at a time would supposedly take a long time to repair the Vengeance?

 

A 17km long Warship housed enough repair droids to fix itself from critically damaged to near fighting condition, the entire Sullust shipyards would bring the Vengeance back online in a day, maybe two.

Could we get a source on that? Thats a lot of SDs...

 

It probably wouldn't take to long, but it will take a week to get there, and a week to get back...

 

My thoughts are that the Resistance won't have time to repair their vessels and intercept the IDD at Sullust before their fleet is fully functional, but they will have time to mobilise agents for potential sabotage, a far better strategy imo.

That's gameplay, the IG-2000 doesn't actually have that ability.

I was thinking that, let me guess EaW? Edited May 16, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

[/color]I was thinking that, let me guess EaW?

 

FoC yeah.

[Silenceo]

Yes, the hangars on the side are in fact sealed most of the time. All hangars as far as I'm aware, can be sealed.

 

I actually said I don't think there are any, however many starships had them, so it could... but they would have to aquire the schematics for the Venator and/or the Acclamator to be able to locate those access locations.True, but if the crew are in control of the bridge, they could override that, and Nek might have some contingencies in place, like a manual shut down of the reactor, if he suspects another hacking attempt.

 

And if it works, they might just power down all the ships until IG-88 is found, might even have Windu on speed dial.

 

Heck, maybe Nek will lure him into a trap... an interesting possibility to consider, with the fleet as bait...

 

Well Venator's at least have the belly hangers. We see such in CW and in ROTS. Big enough to fit a corellian corvette, as we saw in one episode I believe, or was it a different vessel?

 

As for stopping it from colliding... I did say from the bridge, did I not? Unless he has a way to gain control of such and ensure it can not be overridden? Though, a possibility is that instead of going to the actual bridge, he might instead check the schematics at a terminal to see if Venator's have secondary bridges he can route power to.

 

s for Windu on speed dial... Hilarious. That said, he could indeed head to the ships to help should it be required, but I am unsure if he would arrive in time or before IG-88 was already off ship. Even so, he would likely encounter the 8 Nova's first, which at the very least would alert IG-88 and he might be able to slip away. At the most, well, never really clocked how durable or destructive Nova's are compared to regular PII's...

 

My thoughts are that the Resistance won't have time to repair their vessels and intercept the IDD at Sullust before their fleet is fully functional, but they will have time to mobilise agents for potential sabotage, a far better strategy imo.

 

Inquisitors of Sullust! Protect me! (Though, there is of course the defense force to consider)

Edited May 16, 2015 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

Well Venator's at least have the belly hangers. We see such in CW and in ROTS. Big enough to fit a corellian corvette, as we saw in one episode I believe, or was it a different vessel?

Yup it has doors to, I'm sorry Sil, but the hangar bay doors will be quite operation when IG-88 arrives.

As for stopping it from colliding... I did say from the bridge, did I not? Unless he has a way to gain control of such and ensure it can not be overridden? Though, a possibility is that instead of going to the actual bridge, he might instead check the schematics at a terminal to see if Venator's have secondary bridges he can route power to.

Did ya? DID YA?

 

Fine. But yeah, sure, best bet would be capturing the bridge, and the Venator has two bridges, one for overall command and one for starfighter flight control. I doubt it has anymore, and I supect the command bridge is the only one that can actually control the ship. So I think he would have to take that one, possible, yes. Stealthy? Not so much.

As for Windu on speed dial... Hilarious. That said, he could indeed head to the ships to help should it be required, but I am unsure if he would arrive in time or before IG-88 was already off ship. Even so, he would likely encounter the 8 Nova's first, which at the very least would alert IG-88 and he might be able to slip away. At the most, well, never really clocked how durable or destructive Nova's are compared to regular PII's...

Inquisitors of Sullust! Protect me! (Though, there is of course the defense force to consider)

I think Inquisitors would be of more help than the Defense Force, if we are dealing with covert agents they will be none the wiser. Really Sullust as such a hub of activity shouldn't be hard at the very least to infiltrate. Edited May 16, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

Yup it has doors to, I'm sorry Sil, but the hangar bay doors will be quite operation when IG-88 arrives.

 

 

Did ya? DID YA?

 

Fine. But yeah, sure, best bet would be capturing the bridge, and the Venator has two bridges, one for overall command and one for starfighter flight control. I doubt it has anymore, and I supect the command bridge is the only one that can actually control the ship. So I think he would have to take that one, possible, yes. Stealthy? Not so much.

 

Very possible he has the Nova's clear a path to the bridge and secure it, so that he can work in peace. Nova's! ATTACK!

 

 

*Predicts Windu's verbal response to seeing IG-88*

 

I think Inquisitors would be of more help than the Defense Force, if we are dealing with covert agents they will be none the wiser. Really Sullust as such a hub of activity shouldn't be hard at the very least to infiltrate.

 

Yeah, the defense forces are more for well, defense. The Inquisitors though, technically have handbook Volume 49, when RI is still on Volume 37. /sarcasm (joke about timeline)

Edited May 16, 2015 by Silenceo

[Selenial]

Could we get a source on that? Thats a lot of SDs...

 

Just to clarify, I'm talking about Kuat there. (I can still post the source I guess, but I assume you wanted to see it thinking I was talking about Sullust).

 

I was just saying, even if Sullust is 1/10th the size of Kuat, it will be used to producing far more ships than they are right now. Repairing a vessel like that shouldn't take them long.

 

Edit: Sil, that PM was huge... I might need a while to read it because I'm supposed to be working right now

Edited May 16, 2015 by Selenial

[Silenceo]

Just to clarify, I'm talking about Kuat there. (I can still post the source I guess, but I assume you wanted to see it thinking I was talking about Sullust).

 

I was just saying, even if Sullust is 1/10th the size of Kuat, it will be used to producing far more ships than they are right now. Repairing a vessel like that shouldn't take them long.

 

Edit: Sil, that PM was huge... I might need a while to read it because I'm supposed to be working right now

 

Yeah... I, uh... Am sorry bout that, got a little carried away explaining a topic or two. I even at the end asked if I had scared you away due to it.

 

As for supposed to be working, I won't tell anyone, promise! :p

 

That said, I am kind of curious now as to the self-repair drones mentioned earlier... That could be quite a key fact in regards to the Vengeance.

[Selenial]

That said, I am kind of curious now as to the self-repair drones mentioned earlier... That could be quite a key fact in regards to the Vengeance.

 

I don't know, they were standard for the Viscount class. I'm not sure if they'd be on the Vengeance or not, would be interesting to look into.

[LadyKulvax]

I am sorry for reacting but Star made out like arguing against him at all was vastly underestimating him and was complete bias, I mean seriously me attempting to even suggest he might have been spotted was basically called out as lowballing.

[LadyKulvax]

So I was considering that RI might contact Sian Tevv's resistance fighters on Sullust and get them to reveal IDD information, potentially RI units already on Sullust could create a trap in Sullustan shipyards before Trench even arrives. Infact it would be most beneficial for Sullust if Tevv took over completely with RR support and then Trench will find himself between a rock and a hard place. Edited May 17, 2015 by LadyKulvax