Kaggath Battlegrounds Final: Republic Resistance vs Imperial Droid Division

[StarSquirrel]

I'd like to take a moment and apologize to Sil for throwing his tactician under the bus.

 

That said, the tactical disparity was unsurprising, however the ship to ship category does in fact surprise me. I'd have thought that the fighter comparisons would be closer and the ship to ship category would fall slightly in the IDD's favor.

 

But of course that's just my opinion, and nevertheless I can see some of the reasoning behind this outcome.

[Silenceo]

I'd like to take a moment and apologize to Sil for throwing his tactician under the bus.

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Silenceo

[Selenial]

Agreed with Star tbh, the Venators ship-to-ship was always kind of overrated IMO anyway, coming from someone who used them in her own Kaggath

 

The breakdown surprises me but the result does not, well debated everyone.

[LadyKulvax]

Republic Intelligence is a massive galaxy spanning organisation and would likely install a secondary HQ in the Green Jedi Enclave itself. RI is going to have a major intel advantage over the Inquisitorious, the Inquisitorious is not a mainstream organization, it is a specially designed Jedi-hunting organisation founded by Lord Vader. Republic Intelligence will be able to track their movements and set ambushes for them. RI will have an immense numbers advantage over the Inquisitorious due to the rule concerning Force users and every Inquisitor lost cannot be replaced. This is the fatal flaw for such a high quality organisation, they seriously lack in numbers whereas RI's agents would be countless by comparison. That is when we factor in Armand Isard, my ace card if you will.

 

Kuat in it's last incarnation was an incredibly well secured and solidly defended shipyard, it's increases in security would be incredible, the amount of troops, vehicles and starfighters being sent out daily would further increase the difficulty in attacking it or infiltrating it. Nek is certainly going to defend his sole source of supplies and reinforcements and would likely plan ahead for such an attack. Kuat is going to turn the RR's ground war into a matter of time, not a matter of if. KDY can heavily supply the Republic with weapons designed for taking down heavily armored units.

 

The Commerce Guild on Sullust however is not a heavily defended 'fortress-class' station, an invasion by Nek and the threatening of losing their planet should cause them to switch sides when they know the Resistance came out victorious, teaming with Kuat would mean the absolute victory of the RR and bail them out of the war. Considering the type that runs this corporation we are certainly inclined to believe she would save her own skin.

 

The ground war is a perfect situation for the Republic, a heavy siege orientated attrition war, no faction in this Kaggath can maintain the kind of attrition that the RR can and will. The IDD has quality in it's troops but is heavily outnumbered against a force designed specifically for siege warfare, the Third Systems Army. These are veteran troops that have fought heavy droid forces constantly and broke sieges constantly. Furthermore they are led by Marshall Commander Cody and High Jedi General Mace Windu. Two of the best tacticians and strategists the Republic had throughout the war. Their position is further increased by the massive reinforcements they will recieve daily or perhaps even twice daily.

[StarSquirrel]

Isn't Nek dead? I thought the Imperious blew up?

[Silenceo]

Isn't Nek dead? I thought the Imperious blew up?

 

Some how he escaped a powered down Star Destroyer that was being concentrated. (Though, I would of thought IG-88 would of caught up to him before he could get off the ship...)

[LadyKulvax]

He escaped, read it again.

[StarSquirrel]

It says he got off the bridge, but the ship was (as Sil said) disabled and being turned into space dust. Not to mention the fact that the remainder of the scenario says that "without their leader the RR fleet fell into disarray"

 

The pods would have been disabled (unless IG-88 turned into an idiot somehow) and since that isn't something well-defended like, say, shields... I fail to see how Nek made it out.

 

I mean, I love the guy more than most and even I can see that he has no chance or skills that'd allow him to escape this.

[LadyKulvax]

The bridge was turned to dust after he got off it, he of course from that point on could not lead the fleet and escaped. If he was dead Beni would definitely have confirmed such. The fact no one died only exemplifies how close the space battle really was.

[StarSquirrel]

The bridge was turned to dust after he got off it, he of course from that point on could not lead the fleet and escaped. If he was dead Beni would definitely have confirmed such. The fact no one died only exemplifies how close the space battle really was.

 

Trench was confirmed to be alive. Nek was not.

 

I'd like Beni to clear this up, as I can't see how Nek is alive after that.

[Silenceo]

The bridge was turned to dust after he got off it, he of course from that point on could not lead the fleet and escaped. If he was dead Beni would definitely have confirmed such. The fact no one died only exemplifies how close the space battle really was.

 

Tell that to the families of the Imperial crew members... I have to contact them now to notify them of the

...

[StarSquirrel]

Republic Intelligence is a massive galaxy spanning organisation and would likely install a secondary HQ in the Green Jedi Enclave itself. RI is going to have a major intel advantage over the Inquisitorious, the Inquisitorious is not a mainstream organization, it is a specially designed Jedi-hunting organisation founded by Lord Vader. Republic Intelligence will be able to track their movements and set ambushes for them. RI will have an immense numbers advantage over the Inquisitorious due to the rule concerning Force users and every Inquisitor lost cannot be replaced. This is the fatal flaw for such a high quality organisation, they seriously lack in numbers whereas RI's agents would be countless by comparison. That is when we factor in Armand Isard, my ace card if you will.

"Galaxy spanning" is not a benefit here, since all that is in play are the planets you have access to. As far as intel advantage, the Inquisitorius hunted force-users... How the hell could they find a handful of people in a galaxy of too many beings to properly count if their intel wasn't some of the absolute best? Yet the RI had problems finding even a few major enemy political and military figures.

 

RI ambushing Inquisitors is quite a funny idea, but ultimately I don't see why anyone would believe that.

 

"immense"? Not really, like I said, the RI is limited to what they have in the planets we have in play. While yes they might have more operatives and personnel, that number isn't going to be immensely greater. Also the RI can hardly replace its people at any decent level of quality either. The Inquisitorius, however, can replenish their ranks by capturing and converting Jedi (as per their training) into new Inquisitors. You also, conveniently, have the very same type of Jedi they're trained to convert.

 

Kuat in it's last incarnation was an incredibly well secured and solidly defended shipyard, it's increases in security would be incredible, the amount of troops, vehicles and starfighters being sent out daily would further increase the difficulty in attacking it or infiltrating it. Nek is certainly going to defend his sole source of supplies and reinforcements and would likely plan ahead for such an attack. Kuat is going to turn the RR's ground war into a matter of time, not a matter of if. KDY can heavily supply the Republic with weapons designed for taking down heavily armored units.

IG-88. The droid hacked Mechis III in an afternoon via wireless signal. He contrived a way to infiltrate any number of highly defended locations, he's demonstrated unparalleled hacking abilities aboard the Executor and Death Star when he has physical access.

 

And not to mention, any division of the RR's fleet would weaken them too much to stop an attack by Trench. In fact, losing the space battle might be a blessing for the IDD. Now they can concentrate their forces and have the choice of attacking Kuat while the RR fleet has to hold both Corellia and Kuat with no opportunity to assault Sullust without losing everything else. It immobilizes the RR and so allowing Trench the chance to dismantle the RR fleet and/or their industry.

 

And IG-88 can at least eliminate the Kuati leadership and cause chaos at KDY slowing down or halting production entirely. Heck, one hack does this and he's neutralized KDY and can move on to his job on Corellia.

 

The Commerce Guild on Sullust however is not a heavily defended 'fortress-class' station, an invasion by Nek and the threatening of losing their planet should cause them to switch sides when they know the Resistance came out victorious, teaming with Kuat would mean the absolute victory of the RR and bail them out of the war. Considering the type that runs this corporation we are certainly inclined to believe she would save her own skin.

No the RR is immobile if they want to keep Kuat. And honestly from the way things look on the ground, they need KDY a lot to guarantee any kind of victory. If Nek is indeed alive, he doesn't have a lot of resources left to him to defend both, and so his options and ability is quite limited.

 

Also, with a pair of Inquisitors on Sullust you can bet your *** that there is no way in hell the Commerce Guild will join the RR until its industry had already been turned to dust. But again the idea of an attack on Sullust is fantasy.

 

 

The ground war is a perfect situation for the Republic, a heavy siege orientated attrition war, no faction in this Kaggath can maintain the kind of attrition that the RR can and will. The IDD has quality in it's troops but is heavily outnumbered against a force designed specifically for siege warfare, the Third Systems Army. These are veteran troops that have fought heavy droid forces constantly and broke sieges constantly. Furthermore they are led by Marshall Commander Cody and High Jedi General Mace Windu. Two of the best tacticians and strategists the Republic had throughout the war. Their position is further increased by the massive reinforcements they will recieve daily or perhaps even twice daily.

 

I'm sorry, what kind of battle did the IDD just win to get here? Oh, right, a siege... cute.

 

And the clones are completely unprepared for the quality of the droids being presented here. In fact they have historically be tragically annihilated every time the CIS unveiled a new, more powerful droid type. I find the clone's experience against droids to be a disadvantage as it'll inevitably lead to the clones underestimating the IDD initially.

 

Of course, the IDD is full of people who know exactly the capabilities of clones.[

 

Edit: some edits to be more polite

Edited May 15, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[Silenceo]

Exectute RR Fleet

- Similar to what was done to you last round, Beni

- IG-88 and a squad of Dark Troopers land on the Venator's

- The IG-2000's stealth tech would allow them to do so with impunity

- RR crews can not defeat them unless Jedi are present

- Jedi are most likely all on the ground

- Set the Venator's on collision courses with nearby Acclamator's and set core to overload

- Rinse and repeat

- With all 3 Venator's gone, IG-88 could either do the same to the remaining 3 Acclamator's, or call in the fleet

-- Backup: IG-88 disables key systems

-- IDD fleet returns

-- Disabled systems allow the damaged IDD fleet to win

-- Due to the amount of time available, IG-88 has all the time in the world

+ Result: RR blockade broken, fleet defeated.

 

The other plans were addressed, but figured this one needs to be addressed as well. If this one is not countered, it could snow ball into the other two being completed due to lack of competition in space, albeit by different methods than listed.

[LadyKulvax]

Their intel was provided by outside sources, mainly Imperial intelligence, I mean have you even watched Rebels? it was an ISB agent who informed the Inquisitorious of Jedi movements in the first place and in almost every other Inquisitor appearance in Legends we see the same thing happening. But the Inquisitorious doesn't have ISB or Imperial Intelligence, they are on their own, with their own comparatively limited resources. Republic Intelligence has vastly superior resources at disposal and is not being held back by Sidious and Armand Isard, for the second time, Republic Intelligence performed depending on the whims of their Supreme Chancellor. Over night they turned into an extremely good intelligence agency, that night being the initiation of the New Order program. Better yet once more Armand Isard is in control here.

 

Armand Isard has been both Director of Republic Intelligence and Director of Imperial Intelligence, he knows the inner workings of the Inquisitorious personally and in secret seriously distrusted the Inquisitors, he didn't even trust Lord Vader, the fact is he knows an incredible amount about the Inquisitorious and will put that to good use against Jerec and his band.

 

IG-88 has to get to Kuat first and he no longer holds the element of surprise, especially when they turn to Isard and he gives his run down of the droids capabilities. Concerning KDY they will use CGTs for certain around Kuat and likely place them on the RR's fleet during repair and resupply, as well as vastly replenish starfighter numbers. They would however also employ 220-SIG jamming devices to the RR fleet so as to eliminate the droid networking between enemy fighters. Nek would not pull any punches after this.

 

The RR fleet maintains six Acclamators and three Venators, they as noted in the result are in far better shape than the IDD, it would be highly logical to attack after a day of repairs and resupply at KDY, Trench's heavily damaged fleet would not survive another battle against a fully repaired fleet and an incredibly well prepared Nek.

 

You are severely underestimating one of the best fighting forces in the entire GAR, the Third Systems Army was specifically designed for sieges, breaking sieges or drfending from one, they have very heavy weaponry and the vehicles to support them. Many times more of said vehicles will be appearing every day as the battle goes on. The clones specifically should fight even harder when they see what became of their brethren in Dark Trooper form.

 

The RR once again has time on it's side, they will be gaining a massive vehicle advantage thst increases every day. The IDD does not, every engagement is costing them forces they cannot afford to lose.

 

The final nail in the coffin is that Trench, their best ground commander, is not here, he is busy saving the remains of his fleet at Sullust. Cody and Windu are excellent ground commanders and easily superior to Jerec on the ground.

 

As far as Inquisitors converting Jedi goes, they are just Inquisitors, you are assuming first off that they are good enough to take these Jedi Knights. Secondly they would have to go to Corellia and attack them to do so, which in my opinion would be fatal. They aren't going to be conveniently in bars or something, they would be in unit formations.

 

An argument I would like brought up is an aerial strike on the IDD's HQ:

 

Mace Windu, Nomi Sunrider & 50 Jedi Knights with Marshall Commander Cody and his 2nd Airborne Company.

 

All they have to do is break in through the roof, secure a path to Jerec and allow Windu to cut him down, Desann can be telepathically dominated by Nomi Sunrider.

Edited May 15, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[StarSquirrel]

Armand Isard has been both Director of Republic Intelligence and Director of Imperial Intelligence, he knows the inner workings of the Inquisitorious personally and in secret seriously distrusted the Inquisitors, he didn't even trust Lord Vader, the fact is he knows an incredible amount about the Inquisitorious and will put that to good use against Jerec and his band.

 

Let me stop you right here. You're talking Armand Isard with Republic Intelligence. While he was with Republic Intel the Inquisitorius didn't exist, so no he knows nothing about the Inquisitorius and Jerec.

 

We can't just skip ahead and take the character ahead of the time specified for him, and he is constrained to who he was when he was a part of his organization. Rule #32. If he influenced the Kaggath in the way you want him to he'd have to be a part of your leadership.

 

For instance, why didn't Beni get Armand or Ysanne during his match?

 

Besides, since we're bringing up Armand... how easy might it be for the Inquisitorius to get to him, bend his will, and convert the entire RI over to the IDD's side. I mean, he might even side with the Empire. If you want Armand in his post-republic days then he did kill or lead to the deaths of a lot of Jedi... what if that got out?

[LadyKulvax]

Each organisation and supplier has a representative, Republic Intel was directed by him personally and him giving his own information to his faction is certainly within the rules. I however would posit the same query to you: How is the Inquisitorious capturing Jedi and wiping out organisations? Getting so directly involved is not permitted in the rules for organisations.

[StarSquirrel]

Each organisation and supplier has a representative, Republic Intel was directed by him personally and him giving his own information to his faction is certainly within the rules. I however would posit the same query to you: How is the Inquisitorious capturing Jedi and wiping out organisations? Getting so directly involved is not permitted in the rules for organisations.

 

reread Rule #35 & #36

 

And since the Inqusitorius's individual units are far superior to those of the RI their provided forces are vastly superior to the small number the RI can provide per the rules.

Edited May 15, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[Wolfninjajedi]

To note, Sil kinda shot yourself in the foot with troops. Or at least the Phase 1 Dark Troopers, considering these guys are strict melee oriented they will need to close the distance pretty fast if they want even a chance to kill any Clones. Now the Phase 2 can do some serious damage sure, with their flight, armor and weaponry damage output comparable to that of an Imperial Walker, just your Phase 1s are at a severe disadvantage unless they are operating in more close quarters settings.

 

Now if the IDD is allowed the Inquisitors from their organization, which seems to be ok. Then that gives them even more of a boon against the Jedi here. The Phase 2 DTs alone will give many problems to the Jedi with their phrik armor, throwing Force capable Inquisitors will give more advantage, although I wouldn't say much of considering the Inquisitors did vary on the power scale.

 

As far as personal battles going, Mace or Sun shouldn't really have any problem with Jerec and Desann. Cody I don't see him being able to defeat IG-88 at all.

 

So as far as personal fights the RR I feel take it, I'm not sure it's something that should even be argued really.

[LadyKulvax]

reread Rule #35 & #36

 

And since the Inqusitorius's individual units are far superior to those of the RI their provided forces are vastly superior to the small number the RI can provide per the rules.

 

For every one inquisitor I should get vastly more intel agents or this is completely broken.

 

As a matter of fact I should be able to draw from the very best intelligence has to offer, such as RI's Clone Shadow Troopers.

Edited May 15, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[StarSquirrel]

For every one inquisitor I should get vastly more intel agents or this is completely broken.

 

As a matter of fact I should be able to draw from the very best intelligence has to offer, such as RI's Clone Shadow Troopers.

 

If I recall correctly wasn't Clone Intel and RI separate? Actually they are with Clone Intelligence being a part of the GAR, so... no.

 

As for provided forces, I'd assume you get the best RI has to offer, but not in vastly greater numbers than the Inquisitorius. Besides, if you got vastly more than Sil then how exactly can we call that fair. With that said, RI doesn't have exceedingly great units (in fact no named ones to speak of) meanwhile the IDD is fielding Inquisitors.

 

Instead lets not go by what makes everything totally even (because that's not how the game is played), and instead realize that certain choices other players made were better than your own. In this instance, Sil got an intel agency that serves his purposes well in the context of this fight.

Edited May 15, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[Wolfninjajedi]

The Shadow Clone Troopers are noted as part of SBI not RI. Edited May 15, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

Except dozens of trained Dark Siders is easily the most powerful unit the IDD now has by far, by comparison a few dozen intel agents would be as good as thin air. Making things fair is the point of said rules.

 

Oh and Clone Intelligence Units and Clone Shadow troopers are absolutely different things, Clone Shadow Troopers were founded by Isard to act as Isard's intelligence operatives in the field. Why would Isard design a new unit for a completely different agency? He ordered them around and commanded their movements. Besides I am asking Beni.

Edited May 15, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[Wolfninjajedi]

I'm not sure Lady you can be allowed Clone Shadows, as they are noted as part of the Senate Bureau of Intelligence, not Republic Intelligence which is what you have.

 

Two separate things.

[StarSquirrel]

Clone Intelligence

 

and

 

Republic Intelligence

 

Between the two, which one mentions the Shadow Clone Troopers?

 

Oh, right, Clone Intelligence. Just because Armand developed the program doesn't mean they were placed under Republic Intelligence...

 

And I guess Wolf has a source as well... I wouldn't be surprised if clone intel answered to the SBI

Edited May 15, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[LadyKulvax]

I have the umbrella of Republic intelligence during the Clone Wars, Clone Intelligence is definitely a separate entity but the SBI was integrated with RI on two separate occasions, both of them were directed by Armand Isard and he even sat upon Palpatine's personal council of trusted New Order advisors.

 

Clone Intelligence has employed Clone Shadow Troopers, SBI has employed Clone Shadow Troopers and RI has employed Clone Shadow Troopers.

 

The actual distinctions between the three agencies was in fact none-existent, as in reality all three were directed by Armand Isard, CI unofficially was directed by him as well due to his place on Palpatine's security council. In reality you are talking about three divisions of one agency. In all but an unofficial capacity.

 

They answered to Armand Isard, are not the same as Clone Intelligence Units and have worked for all three agencies.