Kaggath Battlegrounds Final: Republic Resistance vs Imperial Droid Division

[tunewalker]

Actually there is literally 1 whole scene like all of 2 seconds, where it does launch like...8 fighters, but this is inconsistent as the V-19s which are the ones being shown in OCW, have their own hyperdrives or hyperdrive rings, meaning they don't need a carrier.

 

Every other scene aside from that one inconsistency is the Acclamator launching strict ground forces

 

Even then, its possible they were just doing that as a "ploy" and technically those ships warped in on their own at the time and were using a "Hangar Bay" not intended for it....

[tunewalker]

Also for those that want to give me "crap" about "era Bias" when it comes to my Claim of Saba and Corran vs Vitiate.... people REALLY need to realize where those claims come from.

 

First Saba has a similar Skill set to the Hero of Tython from depiction of books vs in game cut scenes and the like. As this claim came BEFORE we were 100% confirmed the Emperor still lived her similar SKILL SET would have allowed her to match the Heroes feat.

 

That's the thing most people here seem to be forgetting about me, when analyzing CROSS ERA characters to me Judging by some arbitrary list of "most powerful" rather then looking at the individuals Strengths AND WEAKNESSES, is asinine and misplaced. Would I say Saba is more powerful then Vitiate... no you guys have seen my "tier list" in that regard and KNOW I placed her lower on the Tiers, that does NOT mean however she doesnt have the skill set. Though its much more unlikely now.

 

 

Corran on the Other hand HAS THE PERFECT Skill Set to take on Vitiate. Its almost TO perfect. To the point of Meetra Vs Nihilus Perfect. What are Vitiate's Primary Strengths and Preferences for abilities to attack with? Illusions, mental Manipulation and Lightning. What abilities does Corran have in spades, Illusions and Illusion and Mental Defenses, It was HE who found out about Ben's Memory alter against Caedus, NOT LUKE, telling you how advanced Corran's abilities are in this area. As well as of course Tutaminis, which we have seen him do to a nearly unprecedented level. To top it all off he is a master swordsman which Vitiate is not known for. He LITTERALLY has every tool he needs to take him down. If Corran were to face Revan, Revan's vast skill set as well as ability to adapt to the situation would overwhelm Corran, Corran does NOT have the skill set to take Revan, but he DOES have the set to take Vitiate.

 

This ISNT Era bias, this is the ability to critically analyze fighters strengths and weaknesses and make an ACTUAL attempt to analyze them in the situation. Rather then pull out a FAKE measuring stick and apply what ever length to each characters "Force powers" and go by that.

Edited April 28, 2015 by tunewalker

[CheaterLL]

Wookiepedia, Leveler:

The Leveler was modified from the stock Acclamator-class assault ship. It was shorter than other Acclamators.[5] It also did not have a flat ventral hull[2] and was equipped with concussion missiles for ship-to-ship combat. The Leveler was the first of it's class to have a hangar bay, which was located on the underside of the ship,[2] similar to later warships.

Wookiepedia, Nevoota Bee

The Nevoota Bee was a Rothana Heavy Engineering Acclamator-class assault ship that served the Galactic Republic during the Clone Wars against the Confederacy of Independent Systems. In 22 BBY, the vessel participated in the Battle of Muunilinst, where it served in the role of a starfighter carrier, loaded with 156 V-19 Torrent starfighters.

Those two are modified Acclamator-I, capable of carrying starfighters.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ok interesting...you'd think these would actually be listed as part of the Acclamator class ships somewhere but guess not. At any rate, ok then there can be those Accalamators as ship carrying vessels.

 

Although I wouldn't say all Accalamators can do this, as it's noted they were designed for planetary invasions forces. The Nevoota and Leveler seeming to be the exceptions to the rule, as it wouldn't make much sense for there to be two starfighter carrying vessels in the GAR.

 

If there needs to be, I suggest that the Acclamators be one or the other. Either add more Starfighters and lessen the ground forces, or just keep them as strict planetary invasion vessels.

 

Because the RR really doesn't need another 156 more Starfighters for each vessels. When the Venators can hold 192 Starfighters X2 for a total of 384 fighters each + 36 more.

 

This again going back to, the Accalmators not needing to be starfighter carriers with Venators were designed as such.

 

So Beni, either she gets the 156 extra Starfighters and has less ground forces, or she just keeps the Acclamators the same. Because having both just doesn't seem possible with the way the ship is designed and it just doesn't seem that smart logistic wise.

 

Because then if one or 2 of the Accalmators are destroyed, not only does this wipe out a lot of Starfighters, but it's also going to destroy much of the ground force.

 

This is how I see it really.

 

Plus those are specifically named Vessels, here she chose the Accalmator Assault Ship 1. So really, she chose the Accalmator which is a planetary invasion ship.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[StarSquirrel]

Wookiepedia, Leveler:

 

Wookiepedia, Nevoota Bee

 

Those two are modified Acclamator-I, capable of carrying starfighters.

 

Curious. The first one has more than one source and seems reasonably credible, but doesn't have a specific number of fighters attached and is obviously not the one seen in the OCW series. The stub is still small enough to fall under rule #10 imo

 

Not to mention it doesn't describe a series but rather a single modified ship and had no successors to speak of.

 

The Nevoota Bee is basically what we've been discussing this whole time. It has one source (two if you count the SW insider article) and is (similarly to the Leveler) seemingly a one-off modification to the standard frame.

 

So Beni, can we then completely customize the layouts of our ships including major structural changes if we can find one half-baked source for something similar happening (so I could have made every SD in my fleet a copy of the Anakin Solo)? I again invoke rule #10

 

Basically Beni, you allow this and you'll have to allow a hell of a lot of things from my side alone not to mention everyone else.

Edited April 28, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wait seeing the page for the Bee, the appearance was retconned so it's not able to carry Starfighters. Yes the Essential Guide to Warfare mentions it, but even still it has been retconned.

 

But still if allowed, see my previous post.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Wookiepedia, Leveler:

 

Wookiepedia, Nevoota Bee

 

Those two are modified Acclamator-I, capable of carrying starfighters.

Thanks, that info is much appreciated.

 

Anyway all my responses have been made in the Rulebook thread, please continue the discussion there:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8161505#post8161505

Edited April 28, 2015 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

So as Boarding Parties are being discussed, I would deem that the IDD would not be the only ones to attempt such, Mace Windu and a contingent of Jedi Knights could board the Praetor and either take some form of control on the bridge and turned the ship's weaponry on it's escort ships or simply cause a reactor explosion and remove it completely from the match. Boarding the ship would not be at all difficult when the IDD fighters are busy not being eradicated.

 

Furthermore I would propose that the Resistance may use signal jamming, something they have excessive experience with, in a plot that would immobilise the fighter droid networking the IDD has planned. I am certain Nek would employ this in his strategy to maximise his starfighters' efforts at space superiority. One such device supplied by KDY woukd be the 220-SIG Tactical Sensor Jammer.

 

Concerning the Jedi, I would ask if the RR can recruit a small number of Green Jedi from the Jedi Enclave in which the headquarters exists.

Edited April 29, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[Selenial]

Welcome back Rayla

[LadyKulvax]

Thank you Sel, too much being going on for me to really justify a sub here, that was until now.

[Beniboybling]

So as Boarding Parties are being discussed, I would deem that the IDD would not be the only ones to attempt such, Mace Windu and a contingent of Jedi Knights could board the Praetor and either take some form of control on the bridge and turned the ship's weaponry on it's escort ships or simply cause a reactor explosion and remove it completely from the match. Boarding the ship would not be at all difficult when the IDD fighters are busy not being eradicated.

 

Furthermore I would propose that the Resistance may use signal jamming, something they have excessive experience with, in a plot that would immobilise the fighter droid networking the IDD has planned. I am certain Nek would employ this in his strategy to maximise his starfighters' efforts at space superiority. One such device supplied by KDY woukd be the 220-SIG Tactical Sensor Jammer.

 

Concerning the Jedi, I would ask if the RR can recruit a small number of Green Jedi from the Jedi Enclave in which the headquarters exists.

Interesting strategy, while it has been argued Mace would be planet side, its also possible he'd be in space too.

 

And I'm afraid external parties are not allowed, so for the purposes of the Kaggath the Green Jedi don't exist.

[LadyKulvax]

Well on the ground the RR has excess numbers and Nek is likely to advise a long term strategy, play defensive in that absolute fortress the Jedi Enclave whilst they win the space war, then after it is won let massive reinforcements pour in daily from Kuat.

 

Mace being gone for a few hours at most won't be all that important in a long term defensive strategy, whereas taking out the Praetor would be an enormous game changer for Nek. Once the space battle is won the numbers on the ground is going to skyrocket for the RR and only dwindle for the IDD. A long drawn out strategy is perfect against Dark Trooper type forces, strong and hard to destroy but are also at that point irreplaceable, attrition is perfect because no other faction in this tournament can resupply and reinforce as heavily as the RR can. Especially when the battleground is less than a day away from Kuat itself.

 

The IDD has to win fast, by denying the IDD that quick victory then Kuat's production is going to be an absolute nightmare which IMO the IDD has nothing to counter it with unless they secure space, that is why Nek will play every card he has to make sure it is an RR victory. Once he secures that then he has gotten a good 75% of the RR's job done.

[Beniboybling]

Hmm, that is some sound reasoning.

[raandomname]

Well on the ground the RR has excess numbers and Nek is likely to advise a long term strategy, play defensive in that absolute fortress the Jedi Enclave whilst they win the space war, then after it is won let massive reinforcements pour in daily from Kuat.

 

Mace being gone for a few hours at most won't be all that important in a long term defensive strategy, whereas taking out the Praetor would be an enormous game changer for Nek. Once the space battle is won the numbers on the ground is going to skyrocket for the RR and only dwindle for the IDD. A long drawn out strategy is perfect against Dark Trooper type forces, strong and hard to destroy but are also at that point irreplaceable, attrition is perfect because no other faction in this tournament can resupply and reinforce as heavily as the RR can. Especially when the battleground is less than a day away from Kuat itself.

 

The IDD has to win fast, by denying the IDD that quick victory then Kuat's production is going to be an absolute nightmare which IMO the IDD has nothing to counter it with unless they secure space, that is why Nek will play every card he has to make sure it is an RR victory. Once he secures that then he has gotten a good 75% of the RR's job done.

That does make sense. However, the question is: how does Mace get on board?

[LadyKulvax]

Which is why employing game changer upgrades and tactics is not something a nearly unrivalled space tactician and strategist will over-look, jamming devices to cripple enemy fighter co-ordination would be right up his sleeve.

 

Playing defensive and using long-range fire to knock out tartans before the battle even really starts is right up his sleeve and is how he schooled Daala and friends.

 

Knocking out afore-mentioned Tartans and allowing his replaceable starfighters to do the heavy-lifting in a long-drawn out cknfrontation and keeping his ships safe as daily Starfighter reinforcements reaffirm his heavy fighter strategy is exactly what he used to stall the main Vong fleet, he wi employ that again.

 

Employing Master Windu and Jedi Knights to knock out the main enemy advantage in the midst of battle is something he has employed three times successfully and will do again.

 

Using the Ionizers covered by TwinTails to cripple enemy ships and bypass their shields followed by heavy assault conc missiles from a safe distance is exactly the type of tactic he employed in the swarm war.

 

All of these tactics are only things we know he has done before, with the Tartans out of action early, enemy fight coordination not available to save their space superiority and essentially useless shields then the RR has some nasty weapons up it's sleeve. Better yet Trench won't have a clue what to do about it and even if he did he will be too busy with Samuel L. Jackson's lightsaber in his face.

[LadyKulvax]

That does make sense. However, the question is: how does Mace get on board?

 

They have Starfighters and troop transports, or simply drop pods. The amount of chaos going on and the fact Trench's fighters are going to be really busy with the far more numerous RR heavy fighter formations is how.

Edited April 29, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

That does make sense. However, the question is: how does Mace get on board?

A good question, the Resistance doesn't have any dedicated boarding craft, so the only way they could feasible enter is through the main hangar, at the prow of the warship. It is certainly exposed but it is also a small and defensible entry point, and any ship that attempts to land in it will have to face off against the Praetor's full firepower.

[raandomname]

Which is why employing game changer upgrades and tactics is not something a nearly unrivalled space tactician and strategist will over-look, jamming devices to cripple enemy fighter co-ordination would be right up his sleeve.

 

Playing defensive and using long-range fire to knock out tartans before the battle even really starts is right up his sleeve and is how he schooled Daala and friends.

 

Knocking out afore-mentioned Tartans and allowing his replaceable starfighters to do the heavy-lifting in a long-drawn out cknfrontation and keeping his ships safe as daily Starfighter reinforcements reaffirm his heavy fighter strategy is exactly what he used to stall the main Vong fleet, he wi employ that again.

 

Employing Master Windu and Jedi Knights to knock out the main enemy advantage in the midst of battle is something he has employed three times successfully and will do again.

 

Using the Ionizers covered by TwinTails to cripple enemy ships and bypass their shields followed by heavy assault conc missiles from a safe distance is exactly the type of tactic he employed in the swarm war.

 

All of these tactics are only things we know he has done before, with the Tartans out of action early, enemy fight coordination not available to save their space superiority and essentially useless shields then the RR has some nasty weapons up it's sleeve. Better yet Trench won't have a clue what to do about it and even if he did he will be too busy with Samuel L. Jackson's lightsaber in his face.

1. Nek doesnt know about the droid meld, so why would he bring jammers?

2. Id say that the Tartans should have no problem evading the Venator's heavy guns.

3. Remember that the Vindicators also have powerful fighter defenses and the Praetor is so large and well defended that fighters shouldnt do to much damage to it.

4. Whare are those heavy assault concussion missiles coming from?

5. Also one thing I have to point out: the Twintails are extremelly durable, but they are not indestructible. When they are right in the enemy formation without capital ship support, they will go down.

6. The Praetor can use its long range ion canons to take out the DBYs. The Venators' shields arent that strong and will go down eventually.

Edited April 29, 2015 by raandomname

[Wolfninjajedi]

Beni I'm still wondering how there's gonna be boarding actions, if all ground forces are planet side. It also occurs to me the IDD will have the advantage in defending their ships, because they have a dedicated force strictly to that in the form of the Imperial Navy Troopers who specialize in such things.

[Beniboybling]

Beni I'm still wondering how there's gonna be boarding actions, if all ground forces are planet side. It also occurs to me the IDD will have the advantage in defending their ships, because they have a dedicated force strictly to that in the form of the Imperial Navy Troopers who specialize in such things.

Oh to answer your question, all factions have among their naval personnel the navy marines that are typically attached to their chosen forces. For example in this Kaggath the IDD would have Stormtrooper Marines and the RR clone marines. Noting these guys are exclusive of the main ground force and can't fight on the ground.

[LadyKulvax]

1. Nek doesnt know about the droid meld, so why would he bring jammers?

2. Id say that the Tartans should have no problem evading the Venator's heavy guns.

3. Remember that the Vindicators also have powerful fighter defenses and the Praetor is so large and well defended that fighters shouldnt do to much damage to it.

4. Whare are those heavy assault concussion missiles coming from?

5. Also one thing I have to point out: the Twintails are extremelly durable, but they are not indestructible. When they are right in the enemy formation without capital ship support, they will go down.

6. The Praetor can use its long range ion canons to take out the DBYs. The Venators' shields arent that strong and will go down eventually.

1.They know all about the TIEs being used however and intelligence will be ever-present.

2.No problem against long-range tracking cannons? they are not A-wings.

3.Fighter defenses aren't going to be as effective against a mass swarm of heavy fighters.

4.Multiple ships/fighters in the RR fleet have concs/assault concs.

5.Said formation is going to lose it's shielding quickly and be exposed against extremely fast and tough starfighters with the firepower required to cause heavy damage.

6.Venator shielding is going to be strong when they can focus it forwardly, not to mention the extremely tough Acclamators will be in a formation covering the Venators. Also those cannons aren't nearly that accurate.

[tunewalker]

1.They know all about the TIEs being used however and intelligence will be ever-present.

2.No problem against long-range tracking cannons? they are not A-wings.

3.Fighter defenses aren't going to be as effective against a mass swarm of heavy fighters.

4.Multiple ships/fighters in the RR fleet have concs/assault concs.

5.Said formation is going to lose it's shielding quickly and be exposed against extremely fast and tough starfighters with the firepower required to cause heavy damage.

6.Venator shielding is going to be strong when they can focus it forwardly, not to mention the extremely tough Acclamators will be in a formation covering the Venators. Also those cannons aren't nearly that accurate.

 

 

2. Long Range... OR tracking, they are 2 seperate modes.... so ya "No problem" and even "Long range" has an "out of range" area. They have done it against ships with better tracking and better firepower no reason to think they cant do it here.

Edited April 29, 2015 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

Oh to answer your question, all factions have among their naval personnel the navy marines that are typically attached to their chosen forces. For example in this Kaggath the IDD would have Stormtrooper Marines and the RR clone marines. Noting these guys are exclusive of the main ground force and can't fight on the ground.

 

So then the IDD would have Spacetrooper Stormtroopers?

[Beniboybling]

So then the IDD would have Spacetrooper Stormtroopers?

They wouldn't have elite units like that.

[Aurbere]

Welcome back Rayla

 

^^

 

Welcome back, Rayla!