KaellSolaris Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Since 3.0, Sentinel/Marauder has a hard time in Pvp and Pve with several aspects. I will not talk about damage here, but only about improvement about defensives CD, movement abilities and utility and mecanism. Current Situation: Sentinel/Marauder got 2 control (Force Stasis/Strangulate, Awe/Intimidating Roar), 2 movement abilities (Transcendence/Predation, Force Camouflage) and 4 defensives CD (Rebuke/Cloak of Pain, Saber Ward, Guard by the Force/Undying Rage, Pacify/Obfuscate). So even if a sentinel/marauder got more tools than other classes, their resistance and their movement is not as good as the other melee classes and there is several lack on the following aspects: - No self healing (unless in Watchman/Annihilation, and he required preparation). - Lack of mobility (depend of Centering/Fury available for Transcendence/Predation and a long cooldown on force camouflage). - A lot of defensive cooldown who are only reducing damages. - No way to negate any attack (even if it’s better with the changes on Guard by the Force/Undying Rage since 3.1.1). - No immunity to control effect (unless on force camouflage, it can’t be use to dps, only to move more or less safely). In order to improve sentinel/marauder survival without making them too strong, several changes are needed on defensive capacity, mobility and utility, But first: Defensives abilities: Rebuke/Cloak of Pain Rebuke/Cloak of Pain is a very good defensive CD, but the damage is really small and almost useless, if there have to be a change on it, it should be something like this: Reduces all damage taken by 20 % and while Rebuke/Cloak of Pain is active, you regenerate 3 % of total heal every 3 seconds. Lasts 6 seconds. Rebuke/cloak of Pain refreshes to its full duration when attacked, but this effect cannot last more than 30 seconds in total, the heal provided cannot exceed more than 30 % max heal per minute. Guard by the Force/Undying Rage With the last changes, Guard by the Force/Undying Rage finally became usable for something else than « the last action before dying », the increase on the cd is, on another side, not a good thing at all. Guard by the Force/Undying Rage only decrease damages, it don’t purge dot’s, it doesn’t give a cc immunity, no root immunity and no bump immunity. So why let him stay at 3 minutes CD while tools like Resilience/Force Shroud, Dodge/Evasion or Saber Reflect do almost the same thing (negate damages during a certain amount of time and a cc immunity in some cases) and are at 1 Minute CD ? Decrease Guard by the Force/Undying Rage CD to 1 minute is maybe too short, but a CD back to 2 minutes (or 1minute 30 sec maybe, but it should be too short) should be more balance than a 3 minutes CD. Saber Ward Saber ward is already strong, and if the changes are made on the rest of the defensives CD, he doesn’t need any changes. Pacify/Obfuscate Maybe the biggest change here, Pacify/Obfuscate only work on melee and range attack, but not on Tech or Force attack, that means this ability is almost useless against most of the classes of the game and since 1.2 (or maybe 1.3) he is no longer useful in PVE because he can’t be used on any target who have a boss immunity. In order to give a clear dps windows on our target, plus maybe a clear burst windows on target in PVE, Pacify/Obfuscate are renamed Unbreakable Spirit/Unchained Fury and are providing immunity to interrupts and all controlling effects for 4 sec , usable off the global cooldown, 45 seconds cooldown. Movement: Transcendence/Predation : A great tool, but the fact he required 30 stacks of centering/fury make him really hard to use, plus, we have to choose between using « Zen/Berserk » to fully use our dps or to keep him for stick into melee range. Putting Transcendence/Predation with 30 seconds cd for a self use (without Centering/Fury required) could fix most of the mobility issues. Edit: I know the 30 sec CD on Transcendence/Predation can create issue with a double Transcendence/Predation with Valorous Call/Frenzy. A compromise could be that Valorous Call/Frenzy reset the cooldown of Transcendence/Predation on use. Force Camouflage : It remains how he is with 3.1.1 update, if the change on Pacify/Obfuscate become effective, this tool MAY give us too much immunity, and in that case should go back to how he was before 3.1.1. Utility : Defensive Forms: While other classes have their combat form improved in their own discipline’s path, we have to use a utility point to get them. We really need to have them back in our disciplines’ path. Also, The Centering/Fury stack generated when attacked is incorporated in the Valor/Short Fuse passive. Contemplation /Brooding: While the other classes (Vanguard/Powertech, Commando/Mercenary) have in their discipline path, or naturally, a way to generate their Energy Lodes or Supercharge, Sentinel/Marauder has no way to generate Centering/Fury out of combat without spending a utility point. Sentinel/Marauder (and Vanguard/Powertech, Commando/Mercenary as well) need to have the ability to generate their stack by using Introspection/Channel Hatred as a passive abilities. Leg Slash/Crippling Slash - Reining Reach/Maiming Reach : Since 3.0 Leg slash/Crippling Slash is probably the worst slow existing in the game due to his melee range while the other slow are either aoe, or have a 10 meters or more range. In order to fix him, the Reining Reach/Maiming Reach utility and leg slash should be remove and replace by Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw. Skillful Jedi Enforcer/Cloak of Carnage When activated, Rebuke/Cloak of Pain deals X energy damage to attackers. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds. Debilitation/Overwhelm No changes Jedi Crusader/Cloak of Rage While Rebuke/Cloak of Pain is active, it generates 1 Focus/Rage whenever you are attacked. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds. Additionally, Rebuke/Cloak of Pain durations is increased by 4 seconds. Adamant/ Inexorable No changes Incisor/Interceptor No changes Incisor/Interceptor is lowered from Masterful to Skilful. Trailblazer/Path Carver No changes Defensive Roll No changes, Defensive Roll is lowered from Masterful to Skillful Masterful New Utility : Cleansed movement/Tracking Force Camouflage and Transcendence/Predation Removes all cleansable effects when activated Jedi Promulgator/Cloak Of Annihilation Each use of Zealous Strike/Battering Assault, Zealous Leap/Obliterate, Overload Saber/Deadly Saber and Precision slash/Gore reduces the active cooldown of Rebuke/Cloak of Pain by 3 seconds and allow Rebuke/Cloak of Pain to be used while stunned Just pursuit/Inescapable Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw immobilizes the target for 3 seconds. This immobilizing effect cannot be applied to the same target more than once every 10 seconds. Additionally, Crippling Throw now consumes 2 less Focus/rage. Watchguard/Subjugation Reduces the cooldown of Unbreakable Spirit/Unchained Fury by 15 seconds and Force Kick/Disruption by 2 seconds Pulse/Strangulate No changes Virtuous Call/Frenzied ( in place of Displacement ) Each time you use an attack who consumes Focus/Rage, you reduce the active cooldown of Valorous Call/Frenzy by 1 second. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds. Force Fade/Phantom Increases the duration of force Camouflage by 2 seconds and Force Fade/Phantom immediately finishes the cooldown of Force leap/Force Charge Heroic Fleetfooted/Unbound The movement speed bonus of Transcendence/Predation is increased by 30%, additionally; Transcendence/Predations also affect your Operation group members within 40 meters. Reinvigorating Zen/ Bloodthirsty When you activate Zen/Berserk, you regenerate 2 % hp each time you consume a charge, this effect cannot occur more than once every 40 seconds. Hard-hitting Throw/Pulverizing Throw When you activate Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw, it knocks back the targets if they are within 4 meters. (The idea is not from me, I read it on a post of the 3.1.1 pts and I really liked it, but I can’t tell who wrote it, the post is no longer available) Force Aegis/Relentless Reduce the cooldown of Guard by the Force/Undying Rage by 30 seconds and allows Guard by the Force/Undying Rage to be used while stunned. Zealous Ward/Blood Ward Reduce the cooldown of Saber Ward by 30 seconds, and allow you to reflect 35 % of the damages you parry while saber ward is active. Displacement You can now Channel Master Strike/Ravage in movement Persistent Fear/Persistent Terror The cooldown of Awe/Intimidating Roar is reduced by 15 seconds. In addition, targets affected by Awe/Intimidating Roar will suffer Fear/Terror when Awe/Intimidating Roar wears off, which reduces all damage dealt by 25 % for 6 seconds. Changes on Watchman/Annihilation Discipline: Since 3.0, Watchman/Annihilation rotation is quite chaotic and gives the impression that you spend quite some time to put your dots. This discipline is lacking a little dynamic, and, in order to improve Watchman/Annihilation mechanism’s, there might be some changes in the discipline’s path: Cauterize/Rupture: Increase range to 10 meters (with a different animation), increase Dot duration to 18 seconds, reduce damage on initial hit and keep global damage over 18 seconds. Burning Throw/Hemorrhaging Throw (New name of Burning Sweep/ Hemorrhaging Smash) Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw Spreads your Cauterize/Rupture and Force Melt/Force Rend Burns/Bleeds to targets it hits, if it hits a target already affected by those Burns/Bleeds. Overload Saber/Deadly Saber: Change on mechanic: Focus/Rage: 1 Cooldown: 12 seconds. Charges your lightsabers with deadly energy for 15 seconds, causing your next successful melee or range attacks to deal X additional Elemental/Internal damage and make your target burn/bleed for Y Elemental/Internal damage over 6 seconds. (X+Y is equal at the same damage Overload Saber/Deadly Saber is doing with 3 stacks) Mind Sear/Pulverize Your burning/bleed effects have 30% chance to grant Mind Sear/Pulverize which increases the damage of your next Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw by 100%. This effect can only occur once every 12 seconds. Force Melt/Force Rend: Reduce Focus/Rage cost to 2 points, down from 3. Accelerating Victory/Swift Demise: Juyo Form and Merciless/Annihilator build two stacks at a time, Merciless Slash/Annihilator also grant 2 stacks of Accelerating Victory/Swift Demise which reduce by 1 the cost of your next 2 ability that consumes Focus/Rage. (Maybe only one stack will be sufficient) Changes on Combat/Carnage Discipline: : Precision/Gore: Increases armor penetration by 100% for your 2 next attacks. If Precision/Gore is used while Zen/Berserk is active, you gain an extra stacks of Precision/Gore. Edited March 22, 2015 by KaellSolaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanSaint Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 interesting ideas. I can agree with many of these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albethe Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 10/10 A lot of interesting and doable ideas. Maybe not everything cause it would be OP, but combining some of them could change sents/maras life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If all of that happened to the Marauder, I would cry tears of joy, then tell you to go work for Bioware on class balancing because you are pretty good at that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I don't mind your utility changes. The predation changes get a resounding no from me. Refer to this thread as to why http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=802214 The ability changes - Guarded by the force should be on a much lower cooldown. 3 minutes is a joke. Cloak of pain heal might be OP. Would need to be tested. I like pacify the way it is and do not want to see it changed. It's used to negate executes, ravage, ambush, railshot, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor-Norton Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) wrong thread. Edited March 21, 2015 by Emperor-Norton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaellSolaris Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Thanks everyone for your comments, do not hesitate to share your opinion and to share this post if you like the idea who are here. I don't mind your utility changes. The predation changes get a resounding no from me. Well, the change on Transcendence/Predation came from the following paradox: You need Centering/Fury to use Transcendence/Predation to move around and to stick into melee range, but you can’t build Centering/Fury if you are not already into melee range. The only way to use Transcendence/Predation without 30 stacks of centering/Fury is to use Valorous Call/Frenzied, which has 2 minutes and 15 seconds cooldown. I agree that this change is not perfect, but the way Transcendence/Predation is right now is not perfect either. Maybe if Valorous Call/Frenzied reset the cooldown of Transcendence/Predation could be a good compromise? Cloak of pain heal might be OP. Would need to be tested. The heal on Rebuke/Cloak of Pain represent around 1 275 heal point every 3 seconds (for a full 174 gear), with a limit of 30 % heal over 30 sec per minute (12 750 heal points), it can delay death, but not counter a burst dps (other defensives cd are here to help too) I like pacify the way it is and do not want to see it changed. It's used to negate executes, ravage, ambush, railshot, etc. Pacify/Obfuscate is a great tool, but really situational, too much situational and against reactive player, they always find a way to negate this effect with a stun, root and running away or by using Tech or Force abilities who are not affected by Pacify/Obfuscate. I believe a cc immunity could be more useful After all this is just my opinion, and there is no problem if you do not agree with me. Edited March 21, 2015 by KaellSolaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzStreit Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I completely agree with most of your ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkNecroCrusher Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Everything is there, with more or less what we are all agreeing with since 2-3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCamTheGreat Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Loads of great ideas here, I just hope that devs find this post and listen to what we would like. Don't get me wrong, the guarded by the force change to health loss was great, but the extra min cooldown wasn't needed. If you say it is, double the cooldown of things like force shroud and evasion, they do the same thing but better, they purge and negate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkNecroCrusher Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 This thread has been posted in the feedback thread for 3.2 Mara/Sent and Guardian/Juggs changes =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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