Combat Command

[Nemarus]

So given the quality components that Tensor Field and Repair Probes are, we tend to overlook Combat Command. I took another look at the skill today, trying to figure out what the devs' intentions were with it. My thinking has previously been that a match rarely turns on a group's temporarily buffed accuracy or laser regen, and for solo use, Combat Command just can't compare with Targeting Telemetry.

 

But I wonder if Combat Command was actually meant to be used in support of a Gunship formation? 24 seconds, once a minute, extra accuracy, regen, and crit, multiplied across 2+ Gunships, is pretty powerful, and actually hitting multiple Gunships with the buff predictably is a lot easier than hitting Scouts or Strikes.

 

And if you did this, would you choose the T3 Scout or Strike?

 

I'd probably use the Command Scout, since it can still drop a Repair Drone, and since its longest-range sensors would give the Gunship wing extreme battlefield visibility. I don't really know what the Command Scout would do while waiting for Combat Command to finish its cool down... It could wave Thermite locks threateningly to anyone who gets close I suppose. But beyond that, I think it would mainly want to stay in cover, emerging only to harass anyone who gets too close to the formation.

 

So how many Gunships would it take, in the group, in order to justify swapping one out for a Combat Command ship? And would you have all ships in the wing take Wingman, for maximum accuracy, or would you mix in some RI?

 

This whole notion just makes me glad they never came out with a Command Bomber...

Edited March 10, 2015 by Nemarus

[Drakkolich]

Sadly Combat Commands accuracy and crit buffs only apply to primary weapons. So all you would be doing for Gunships is giving them extra weapon power.

 

We had theory crafted this whole thing when this ability launched and I was really sad when I realized it would never work.

[Verain]

For what it is worth, Combat Command is actually a good buff. It's just like... tensor is powerful and unique. Especially in domination where map mobility matters. And repair probes is defensive, not offensive, but it's certainly GOOD at the defensive aspect.

 

I do think that Combat Command doesn't get its due. But I also think it doesn't compare to the other two big group buffs because for it to be helpful you have to be in a dogfight, with some allies, and it only helps other dogfighters. I just think it's a hard sell on the two frames that offer it. Certainly if the blackbolt had it, it would be a very strong choice, and equally certainly if it had a longer duration, similar.

[Caernos]

Out of curiosity has anyone tried flying a Combat Command scout (with wingman crew skill) as a wingman to a sting (quads&pods or BLC/Clusters I'm indifferent really).

 

I remember a while back debating about combat command's uses with a couple other guildmates on the Eclipse forums, but I don't think anyone ever really got around to testing it. I think when I did the math back then, using Combat Command, plus wingman crew skill buffs accuracy to 40% for 20 seconds. If you were to trigger those buffs at the same time as a sting or blackbolt triggered Targeting telemetry then you're looking at a 55% accuracy buff for whoever is using TT? Not to mention crit buffs, evasion debuffs and such from TT. It doesn't do anything for secondary weapons but +55% accuracy seems like a hell of a buff to lasers.

 

I know I tried Combat Command on the Imperium for a bit, but unfortunately if I wasn't in a furball I couldn't keep up with the other pilots to use it effectively. But I am curious if anyone has tried out this combo in a bloodmark.

[RickDagles]

I love Combat Command. I was actually running it on my Spearpoint for a long time as an anti-scout build. Those regular lasers with range capacitors and 40% accuracy from CC and Wingman are nuts. You can't miss and it's easy to stay in range. Then I realized that BLC/pod or BLC/clusters is a quite a bit better against Scouts and also way better against all other ships. The T1 Scout with TT/Wingman and regular lasers is also better -- I'll gladly sacrifice the 5% accuracy drop for the huge crit potential and much faster cooldown. And that's not even taking into account rocket pods or even sab probe being far superior secondary options.

 

Then I tried using it on the Clarion. Since the Clarion doesn't have access to TT, I thought it might be worthwhile. The CC/Wingman/Quad/Directional Shield/Powerdive Clarion is an absolute beast! You have amazing DPS as well as great tankiness. However, I found it still had less DPS and tankiness than a battlescout (evasion tankiness). The only real benefit this ship has over battlescout is that it doesn't fear railgun sentry drones and seeker mine spam nearly as much. It's a pretty decent solo queue bomberball busting ship. However, in the end you can also accomplish this task with the repair probes and actually afford to take more risks because you can escape and heal up quickly. So repair probes are the better option in most cases I think.

 

Another interesting extremely niche build is an anti-quad/pod build. If the other team has a bunch of these quad/pod scouts and no strong gunship players or BLC scout players then you can build up a charged plating Clarion with deflection armor. Your 40% accuracy Quads can kill scouts fast and you avoid the typical burst deaths associated with the quad/pod build because his DPS is less than half of normal. However, you will eventually die from rocket pod attrition -- which again makes repair probes a better choice here I think. And to be honest a CP Pike is probably better at this extremely rare niche situation because it can kill scouts with cluster missile spam. The Clarion is garbage in between cooldowns. I was actually talking to Otoshi (tom) the other day and he said people used to run this build quite a bit on Harbinger before BLC became super popular.

Edited March 12, 2015 by RickDagles

[Verain]

Out of curiosity has anyone tried flying a Combat Command scout (with wingman crew skill) as a wingman to a sting (quads&pods or BLC/Clusters I'm indifferent really).

 

Sort of. I've tried running type 3 scout with combat command with a group and providing the buff to scouts in general. The general opinion was "I would have preferred tensor".

 

It's also much harder to wing on a type 3 scout anyway- your best lockon time is concussion speed (and makes EMP or ion, not damage), meaning that peeling for a gunship is hard and peeling for a battle scout is almost impossible.

 

 

Honestly, what you describe isn't bad. It's just like, why not run tensor? Tensor helps massively in a dog fight as well, and has utility outside of that.

[Verain]

Then I realized that BLC/pod or BLC/clusters is a quite a bit better against Scouts and also way better against all other ships.

 

I think, given what BLC is meant to be, it is necessary that this sort of be the case. Even if it wasn't tuned enough to be the default choice for so many situations, it would still be the better call here.

 

Then I tried using it on the Clarion. Since the Clarion doesn't have access to TT, I thought it might be worthwhile. The CC/Wingman/Quad/Directional Shield/Powerdive Clarion is an absolute beast! You have amazing DPS as well as great tankiness.

 

I've played CC Clarion a lot less than RP or even RS.

 

The only real benefit this ship has over battlescout is that it doesn't fear railgun sentry drones and seeker mine spam nearly as much.

 

My experience was that it's real benefit was giving allies combat command during a dog fight. I mean, you wouldn't expect it to compare offensively to the battle scout- the fact that it can pump out solid damage is a definite boon.

 

But I also agree that providing repair probes is normally the better group and solo buff.

[Verain]

Thought experiment:

 

Combat Command is an available option on another ship, replacing the 1 button on it. The ship in question is anything without the X-CHG Weapon Converter on the 1 button- so type 1 scout, type 2 scout, or any bomber

 

Which ship would it become pretty standard on, if any? Which ships would it feel weak on? Because of the ship's role, or because the existing 1 button is too clutch to how the ship plays?

[Nemarus]

Thought experiment:

 

Combat Command is an available option on another ship, replacing the 1 button on it. The ship in question is anything without the X-CHG Weapon Converter on the 1 button- so type 1 scout, type 2 scout, or any bomber

 

Which ship would it become pretty standard on, if any? Which ships would it feel weak on? Because of the ship's role, or because the existing 1 button is too clutch to how the ship plays?

 

Now that I know it doesn't affect secondary weapons, honestly I don't think it'd be used standard on any ship.

 

The T1 Scout should only be played if you're running the S2E TDM build, and that is a lone-wolf build.

 

The T2 Scout needs TT or BO, and CC's cooldown is just too long to serve as even a weak replacement.

 

The Bombers would have to give up mines or drones, which throws their whole purpose of being into question.

 

Honestly the BEST ship to put CC on would be the T2 Strike. Its ability to switch missiles is already more of a novelty than a true utility (at least until it gets access to Interdiction Missile). And CC would buff its own Quads, LLC's, or HLC's. Plus it's sluggish enough that it is likely to stay in a single location for a while, meaning its use of CC might buff allies too.

 

I think the T1 Strike gets enough power out of the combination of Ion Cannon / HLC that I wouldn't trade that for Combat Command.

[RickDagles]

I think the T3 Bomber might be pretty OP with combat command. 40% accuracy HLC + clusters would be lethal against Scouts.

 

Nemarus how is StE the only choice in a T1 Scout? Your lancer build subsituted with DF is quite a bit better IMO. With power dive and regen thrusters you have good enough mobility to grab the important powerups anyway, and that 9% passive evasion boost is really quite critical against good gunship players. I know the arguement is that the Battlescout does this build better, but I think it's personal preference. I favour reg laser's accuracy, lower tracking penalty, and lower energy requirement over the modestly higher DPS quads. And I think the dampening sensors almost make up for the lack of shield component. Besides, I like to reserve my battlescout(s) to use the BLC or retro thrusters components. So even IF the T1 scout did this build slightly worse than the T2 scout, it's worth taking the hit in order to have more diversity to counter the current meta being played.

Edited March 13, 2015 by RickDagles

[Nemarus]

I think the T3 Bomber might be pretty OP with combat command. 40% accuracy HLC + clusters would be lethal against Scouts.

 

Nemarus how is StE the only choice in a T1 Scout? Your lancer build subsituted with DF is quite a bit better IMO. With power dive and regen thrusters you have good enough mobility to grab the important powerups anyway, and that 9% passive evasion boost is really quite critical against good gunship players. I know the arguement is that the Battlescout does this build better, but I think it's personal preference. I favour reg laser's accuracy, lower tracking penalty, and lower energy requirement over the modestly higher DPS quads. And I think the dampening sensors almost make up for the lack of shield component. Besides, I like to reserve my battlescout(s) to use the BLC or retro thrusters components. So even IF the T1 scout did this build slightly worse than the T2 scout, it's worth taking the hit in order to have more diversity to counter the current meta being played.

 

Concussion Mine or Interdiction Drone is more lethal against Scouts I think. And if the T3 Bomber doesn't have its mine or drone, then the only advantage it has over a T2 Strike is Power Dive.

 

As for the Scout question, I prefer S2E over DF for two reasons: 1) you need it in order to actually outrun Battlescouts, especially if you are solo queuing and likely to get focused; 2) once you have Damage Overcharge, you want to be able to find as many targets as you can as quickly as possible.

 

As for Gunships, an extra 9% Evasion is only going to save you 9% of the time. Whereas S2E gives you more ability to fly behind cover or flank Gunships.

 

Against a team of Gunships hell bent on focusing you, you are going to die either way. In that case I find it is better to just get as many kills as possible before they get you, and in my experience more boost lets me do that more effectively than more Evasion.

 

Also.... The speed man... The speeeeeeed.

 

That being said, both builds can be successful. Both are also still lone wolves, and need an extra accuracy boost more often than once a minute. TT would always be better than CC.

[RickDagles]

Concussion Mine or Interdiction Drone is more lethal against Scouts I think. And if the T3 Bomber doesn't have its mine or drone, then the only advantage it has over a T2 Strike is Power Dive.

 

In domination the mine or drone is probably going to be more useful. But then you might as well use one of the other bombers since they are better at holding sats anyway. I see the T3 bomber as more of a deathmatch Strikefighter build, and CC would certainly add value to that. I've seen you flying the Decimus like a Strikefighter quite a few times, so I don't see how you would deny this strength? I mean, you don't have the same ability to turtle as you would with interdiction drone, but hopefully your team already has a railgun drone up and you can just power dive back to that. Also to say the only advantage a T3 bomber has over a Pike is power dive is like saying the only advantage a Mustang GT has over a base Mustang is a V8 instead of a V6. That move is game changing, which I'm sure you already know. T2 Gunships actually have a hard time taking down well flown T3 bombers and T3 strikes. Why? Because it takes forever to kill them with slugs. And shooting an ion railgun is usually a waste of a shot because he can just powerdive away and heal up.

 

 

Concussion Mine or Interdiction Drone is more lethal against Scouts I think. And if the T3 Bomber doesn't have its mine or drone, then the only advantage it has over a T2 Strike is Power Dive.

 

Ya that was my point, that there are definitely two T1 scout builds that can be considered optimal. It comes down to personal preference I think. I like the passive 9% evasion and ability to pop the DF. And yeah I agree TT is way better than CC for both the downtime as well as the monster crit potential.

Edited March 13, 2015 by RickDagles

[Kuciwalker]

Honestly, what you describe isn't bad. It's just like, why not run tensor? Tensor helps massively in a dog fight as well, and has utility outside of that.

 

This is the long and short of it.

[Nemarus]

In domination the mine or drone is probably going to be more useful. But then you might as well use one of the other bombers since they are better at holding sats anyway. I see the T3 bomber as more of a deathmatch Strikefighter build, and CC would certainly add value to that. I've seen you flying the Decimus like a Strikefighter quite a few times, so I don't see how you would deny this strength? I mean, you don't have the same ability to turtle as you would with interdiction drone, but hopefully your team already has a railgun drone up and you can just power dive back to that. Also to say the only advantage a T3 bomber has over a Pike is power dive is like saying the only advantage a Mustang GT has over a base Mustang is a V8 instead of a V6. That move is game changing, which I'm sure you already know. T2 Gunships actually have a hard time taking down well flown T3 bombers and T3 strikes. Why? Because it takes forever to kill them with slugs. And shooting an ion railgun is usually a waste of a shot because he can just powerdive away and heal up.

 

 

 

 

Ya that was my point, that there are definitely two T1 scout builds that can be considered optimal. It comes down to personal preference I think. I like the passive 9% evasion and ability to pop the DF. And yeah I agree TT is way better than CC for both the downtime as well as the monster crit potential.

 

I have two main Decimus builds I fly. They both have Directional and Power Dive with Turning upgrade.

 

One has Interdiction/LLC/Cluster/Turning Thrusters. It actively seeks a furball of enemies, gets in the center of it all, then drops Interdiction Drone. That immediately slows enemies to a crawl, allowing me to melt them very fast with LLC and Clusters. Without Interdiction, this build doesn't function, and CC wouldn't make it work--it would never be able to stay in range of its targets. Note also that dropping an Interdiction Drone in a crowd does a lot more to make them easy targets for your allies than CC would. This build is great in both TDM and Dom.

 

The other Decimus build is Concussion Mine/HLC/Concussion Missile/Regen Thrusters. This one engages foes at 6-7km range, and with Wingman doesn't really need the extra accuracy, since it's mainly firing dead-center shots at distant targets. This ship can't do anything close-up, so it uses Concussion Mine to basically to punish and deter any Scouts who try to crowd me. This build is really only decent in TDM. Combat Command might be useful here ... but honestly, accuracy is not the issue--keeping Scouts away is.

 

I've also tried Interdiction Drone on the latter build--though in that case, I save Interdiction Drone as a defensive cooldown--when a Scout gets near me, I drop it and run.

 

You ask--if I care about the mines/drone--why not just use the main Bombers? I do in Domination. But in TDM, I'm wasted if I'm not on offense, and for that I need Power Dive

[RickDagles]

Fair enough, but you'd be able to land high deflection shots with CC. And that's very useful, especially for finishing off a scout that boosts away after you initially hit with dead center shots.

 

Alternatively you could just cycle between using CC and Wingman so that you could always hit your dead center shots instead of waiting 40 seconds for wingman to come back.

Edited March 13, 2015 by RickDagles