Fastest way to make millions of credits / get guild ship components

[EazyWin]

Scam your way into a guild bank and loot all of their rare mats. It's ok, nothing will be done.

 

TL;DR: Cancelled sub that was active since launch since BioWare doesn't seem to care about people impersonating others to get months worth of stuff in an afternoon

 

I was really hoping it wouldn't come to this. I've been around since the beginning and I wanted to play until they turned the lights out. Unfortunately, it really doesn't look like that will happen because of the response to a single mistake a guild officer made.

 

Some of you have probably read what happened when the GM of Kinetic made his thread detailing the scam and what went wrong and what to watch for. It was basically a social engineering plot where the infiltrator joins a guild, finds the GM and his alts names, makes something similar, and logs in with the fake alt to get promoted to GM so he can clean out the bank. Yes, mistakes were made but I don't think people should allowed to profit so enormously from it. We're in a game to have fun in a galaxy far far away and not have to deal with (as many) a-holes or bullies as we would in this world.

 

This was not a case of "hey new guy, welcome to the guild here are the keys to the cash register". This person waited until he knew the GM was offline and had given the reins to someone else. He created an alt specifically to mimic the GM. I have seen in the thread mentioned earlier that multiple guilds may have been hit on or about the same day, in a similar manner. Again, mistakes were made but the other choice is to treat every newcomer like a potential criminal, which is hardly conductive to a multiplayer experience.

 

More information can be found in the Guild Bank Scam thread in this same forum. The two tickets submitted to Customer Service were returned with form letters basically saying "Too bad, so sad". Then they have the gall to add at the end of the response form that Customer Service is their specialty. Saying it doesn't make it so, that has to be earned.

 

So I'm done, sub has already been canceled, why bother even posting here on the forums? Two reasons, one because I apparently auto-renewed less than a month ago, so I have some time to see if anything gets done now that it is starting to affect their bottom line. I am under no illusions that my individual wallet will make or break their year. One sub and a few crates is miniscule by itself, but who knows. Maybe it will start something. Two, to report the utter lack of Customer Service support to any that will hear, because they have earned that.

 

If somehow, someone in Customer Service wants to find me and discuss this further, they can backtrack all of this anyway. Start with the scammer, then let me know how you want to work this out from there. Stercus'accidit is my main on the Shadowlands server.

[mbfhl]

So you guys trusted some recruit in your guild who you could see made the same name as GM, promoted him, and then he stole stuff, and you expect Bioware to replace you stuff?

 

Sounds like a good way to double your guild bank instantly.

 

If true, you stuffed up, stop expecting devs to bail you out, and go cry "wah I cancelled my sub" when you don't get what you want.

Edited February 27, 2015 by mbfhl

[Papazmurf]

I feel for you, I really do. The thing is you unsubbing over one of the few things that isn't Bioware's fault. At the end of the day you guys made the mistake.

 

I get that he impersonated and did all that crap, but there was another guild on Harbinger (Local 420 or something like that) where there GM kicked everyone out of the guild and kept all the money to himself. This was a reputable guild with lots of credits and the GM just snapped. I actually have more sympathy for them as this was someone that was trusted for a long time.

 

The problem with Bioware helping you out, is that it sets a precedent. If they do it for you they have to do it for everyone else. You know what that leads to? Scamming. People "taking" all the money from the guild bank so they can complain and get more money. How do we know that wasn't the case in your situation? It's probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised. You're emotional right now and not thinking logically. Something bad happened to you online. Sh*t happens. This could've been prevented. You guys only have yourselves to blame.

[MadDutchman]

Wait, you are turning to the INTERNET to get away from the a-holes and bullies in real life!?

 

to a medium where everyone is anonymous and there are no consequences to being a dick?

 

 

This is like expecting the government to pay for your burnt down house because you didn't have insurance. Fires are rare, just like this case, and it sucks, but it is still your fault.

[Warrgames]

Can I have your stuff? Since BW not going to do anything because its not their fault that your office is a ****** or scamming you. Never in any guild I have been part of has someone had an alt invite without saying something voice com or in guild chat on their main.

 

This guy wait till you logged off and claimed to be you. So this guy had to know all your alts and that you weren't in voice com with guild. Sound very fishy.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Warrgames

[EazyWin]

So you guys trusted some recruit in your guild who you could see made the same name as GM, promoted him, and then he stole stuff, and you expect Bioware to replace you stuff?

 

Sounds like a good way to double your guild bank instantly.

 

If true, you stuffed up, stop expecting devs to bail you out, and go cry "wah I cancelled my sub" when you don't get what you want.

 

Another internet tough guy, why am I not surprised.

 

Friendly banter aside (go cry wah, etc.), the people in my guild have better things to do than try to head fake Bioware out of mats. We've been doing well enough for the last 3 years, so why start now? Also, I said repeatedly mistakes were made, but if this happened to you, would you let all of your time and effort go to waste over one quick mistake?

[psandak]

Let me ask you this: how much of that stuff sat in the guild bank for a year or more? If your guild is anything like mine...probably the overwhelming majority. The "thief" probably did your guild a favor by clearing out crap just taking up space (JOKING).

 

I realize that this is not the point; you are upset with BW's reaction. The problem is that they do in fact have to treat every one of these requests with suspicion. Think about it. How easy would it be to allow a member to "steal" everything from a guild bank, that player de-guilds, the guild claims "robbery," BW reimburses, thief returns everything, guild doubles its "net worth."

 

Or how about the fact that with there is the the complication that the thief probably sold stuff to other players. What do you say to them? "Oh we're sorry. What you bought from character X was in fact stolen from guild Y. Here's your credits back but we get the item. But oh wait, you've also bought an augment kit and installed it, I guess we have to give you that augment slot kit back too." "And, aw crap, that item is now bound to that character, we have to unbind it." (anyone know if that's EVER been done? Is it even possible?).

 

My point is that "too bad, so sad" is the standard line for events like this, because it would take an entire development team to unravel it and restore it properly.

[EazyWin]

I feel for you, I really do. The thing is you unsubbing over one of the few things that isn't Bioware's fault. At the end of the day you guys made the mistake.

 

I get that he impersonated and did all that crap, but there was another guild on Harbinger (Local 420 or something like that) where there GM kicked everyone out of the guild and kept all the money to himself. This was a reputable guild with lots of credits and the GM just snapped. I actually have more sympathy for them as this was someone that was trusted for a long time.

 

The problem with Bioware helping you out, is that it sets a precedent. If they do it for you they have to do it for everyone else. You know what that leads to? Scamming. People "taking" all the money from the guild bank so they can complain and get more money. How do we know that wasn't the case in your situation? It's probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised. You're emotional right now and not thinking logically. Something bad happened to you online. Sh*t happens. This could've been prevented. You guys only have yourselves to blame.

 

My only problem with this logic is that Bioware can supposedly sift through enough data to pinpoint intent with regards to the Ravagers exploit, but not to determine intent with scammers originating outside the guild or being the GM in your example.

 

I agree 100% that the scam wasn't Bioware's fault. It was the fault of someone who decided that it was far easier to steal from someone else than to get the stuff themselves. I simply cannot abide a thief, and Bioware's response was underwhelming, to the point where it seems to be tacitly giving approval.

[EazyWin]

Let me ask you this: how much of that stuff sat in the guild bank for a year or more? If your guild is anything like mine...probably the overwhelming majority. The "thief" probably did your guild a favor by clearing out crap just taking up space (JOKING).

 

I realize that this is not the point; you are upset with BW's reaction. The problem is that they do in fact have to treat every one of these requests with suspicion. Think about it. How easy would it be to allow a member to "steal" everything from a guild bank, that player de-guilds, the guild claims "robbery," BW reimburses, thief returns everything, guild doubles its "net worth."

 

Or how about the fact that with there is the the complication that the thief probably sold stuff to other players. What do you say to them? "Oh we're sorry. What you bought from character X was in fact stolen from guild Y. Here's your credits back but we get the item. But oh wait, you've also bought an augment kit and installed it, I guess we have to give you that augment slot kit back too." "And, aw crap, that item is now bound to that character, we have to unbind it." (anyone know if that's EVER been done? Is it even possible?).

 

My point is that "too bad, so sad" is the standard line for events like this, because it would take an entire development team to unravel it and restore it properly.

 

I agree with most of this, and I am aware that there are those who would actually try to pull a stunt like this, and this is why we can't have nice things. BUT... isn't that what customer service is supposed to be for? They really should have a bunch of people for things just like this. That's why it is called Customer Service. If you bring your car to a shop for some work and they go nah, it would take too much work, would you keep bringing your car there? I realize that example is imperfect but keeping a skeleton crew around to only fix minor issues and let the rest atrophy is not Customer Service. It's business to be sure but I'll just take my business somewhere else.

[EazyWin]

Can I have your stuff? Since BW not going to do anything because its not their fault that your office is a ****** or scamming you. Never in any guild I have been part of has someone had an alt invite without saying something voice com or in guild chat on their main.

 

This guy wait till you logged off and claimed to be you. So this guy had to know all your alts and that you weren't in voice com with guild. Sound very fishy.

 

I realize that this is the internet, and you don't truly know anyone on here. I just have an extreme level of doubt that it was an inside job. Doesn't change whether it was or not in reality, but there's just not that level of douchebaggery present in the time the game has been live until now.

 

Also, if my sub time runs out as I expect, I'll dump what I have into the GB, and we'll see how long it takes for someone else to make an attempt on it.

[EazyWin]

Or how about the fact that with there is the the complication that the thief probably sold stuff to other players. What do you say to them? "Oh we're sorry. What you bought from character X was in fact stolen from guild Y. Here's your credits back but we get the item. But oh wait, you've also bought an augment kit and installed it, I guess we have to give you that augment slot kit back too." "And, aw crap, that item is now bound to that character, we have to unbind it." (anyone know if that's EVER been done? Is it even possible?).

 

Forgot to address this part. I don't think people who bought the stolen goods should be punished because there is no way to tell. Delete the scammer's toons, blacklist his IP, no refunds if he bought a sub (which I doubt) for violating the ToS, and restore what was lost to us. I would expect they could tell which items were transferred to his guild's bank, remove those and only those. Does that really sound that involved? Sure, it's a lot tougher than simply Too Bad So Sad, but again, that's what I think Customer Service is for.

[Rankyn]

This person waited until he knew the GM was offline and had given the reins to someone else. He created an alt specifically to mimic the GM.

This right here is what's bothered me about this bit of drama since I first read about it.

 

Sorry, but it really does sound like an inside job.

Best case scenario: Someone in the guild coordinated with someone outside the guild to do it.

Likely scenario: Someone in the guild did it.

Worst case scenario: GM did it.

 

It sucks that Customer Service wouldn't help (I thought there was an outside chance that they might) but it all comes down to the fact that the guild leadership holds the keys to the guild bank and the responsibility for controlling access to the bank rests squarely on their shoulders.

[GDukin]

To add to this (I am the GM of the guild in question),

 

The concern is that BW's initial response discusses someone taking advantage of a guild rank that they have been rightfully given. Not scammed into.

 

I then wrote a second, nicely worded ticket asking for clarification, which was only replied to by the automated bot.

 

This person clearly violated the terms of service:

From the Rules of Conduct (http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct)

 

To keep the Service a compliant, fun, fair and safe gaming environment for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

 

...

 

Impersonate another person (including celebrities), indicate falsely that you are an EA or BioWare employee or a representative of EA or BioWare, or attempt to mislead users by indicating that you represent EA or BioWare or any of EA’s partners or affiliates.

 

...

 

 

Further, their minimal help or assistance is not in line with their published guidelines in their own help center (which I was directed to in the initial ticket):

http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/4513

 

What should I do if my Guild has been scammed and have lost items from our Guild Bank?

 

Given the customizable nature of the Guild Bank vault access settings, we hope that Guild Banks will be well protected from unscrupulous players. However, we also recognize that the availability of these settings are not protection enough against some players who will use tactics like social engineering to gain increased access to Guild Banks. We sympathize with any Guild who find themselves targeted in this manner, and would ask that the Guild Leader contact our Customer Service team for their assistance in the matter.

 

 

As to the argument that this could be used to further scam BW, if they can track everyone who used the Ravager's exploit, how often, what schematics they got from RE'ing materials, and how much they made from selling said items, they can easily track a single character's actions in regards to an action such as this.

 

The ledger is there. The character's name (which is unique) is there. They can easily track that to a specific account. If the items were then transferred to another guild's bank, or to another account, that can also be easily tracked.

 

 

 

 

While I feel for the guild who's GM basically shut down the guild and kept it all for himself, that really sucks, but that person was the GM, they did have that power, and they didn't violate the TOS in order to do it. In that case, BW's response to me (their initial response) is entirely accurate, that person was given power rightfully, which they used. It may have violated trust, but it didn't break the "rules."

 

 

As to the lovely trolls who like to state it was an "inside job" please see my argument against that, stated above. Secondly, the person knew that I wasn't around, as I am barely on ATM, as I have a 10-day old daughter, who is more important than this game. That is the reason that it was a different person with the GM powers.

 

Yes, someone should have asked for my identity to be confirmed via voice chat, logging into my main, on our guild website, through Facebook, or any of a number of other methods. But that someone would do this just didn't cross their mind. (Which is why I made my original thread, to inform people who also weren't as suspicious as we now need to be).

 

However, if someone scams your credit card, you aren't responsible for their purchases, even if a significant level of suspicion may have prevented that from happening. If someone steals your car, you're not responsible for the damage they cause, even if you left it unlocked. I don't really understand how this is different.

[Warrgames]

Where is your issue with CS? Is it that they aren't restoring your guild items because of your guild's mistake? All items lost due to your guild mistake. Nothing BW did allowed this happen. You did. So they shouldn't restore an item.

 

Or because CS isn't taking action against said player? Because whatever they do that player they aren't going to tell you. They could have banned that player and you will never know it and they wouldn't even hint to the action taken against another player account.

[georgemattson]

Wait, you are turning to the INTERNET to get away from the a-holes and bullies in real life!?

 

to a medium where everyone is anonymous and there are no consequences to being a dick?

 

 

This is like expecting the government to pay for your burnt down house because you didn't have insurance. Fires are rare, just like this case, and it sucks, but it is still your fault.

 

I had to laugh at this.

 

One of the truest statements, ever.

 

For the OP, though; you have my sympathies. I still think everyone else here is right and you should take responsibility for your own mistakes, but I do feel bad for you.

[EazyWin]

This right here is what's bothered me about this bit of drama since I first read about it.

 

Sorry, but it really does sound like an inside job.

Best case scenario: Someone in the guild coordinated with someone outside the guild to do it.

Likely scenario: Someone in the guild did it.

Worst case scenario: GM did it.

 

It sucks that Customer Service wouldn't help (I thought there was an outside chance that they might) but it all comes down to the fact that the guild leadership holds the keys to the guild bank and the responsibility for controlling access to the bank rests squarely on their shoulders.

 

The suspicion is natural coming from an outside source. I get it, but really, I would put better odds on me winning the lottery (if I ever bought a ticket) than it being the GM or that it was coordinated from the inside. My theory (which is only a theory) is that this person joined with a "normal" toon a few days to a week before and looked at the guild members on the list to see who the GM was and if he had similiarly named alts.

[EazyWin]

Where is your issue with CS? Is it that they aren't restoring your guild items because of your guild's mistake? All items lost due to your guild mistake. Nothing BW did allowed this happen. You did. So they shouldn't restore an item.

 

Or because CS isn't taking action against said player? Because whatever they do that player they aren't going to tell you. They could have banned that player and you will never know it and they wouldn't even hint to the action taken against another player account.

 

My issue is that CS seems to just be an automated response factory and this person is making out like a bandit with the work that my guildmates put in to get all of that stuff. What would prevent them from disclosing that the player in question had been banned or punished in some way? You would think that would discourage others from attempting a similar action.

[Warrgames]

The suspicion is natural coming from an outside source. I get it, but really, I would put better odds on me winning the lottery (if I ever bought a ticket) than it being the GM or that it was coordinated from the inside. My theory (which is only a theory) is that this person joined with a "normal" toon a few days to a week before and looked at the guild members on the list to see who the GM was and if he had similiarly named alts.

 

Funny you say that after this

I realize that this is the internet, and you don't truly know anyone on here.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Warrgames

[Warrgames]

My issue is that CS seems to just be an automated response factory and this person is making out like a bandit with the work that my guildmates put in to get all of that stuff. What would prevent them from disclosing that the player in question had been banned or punished in some way? You would think that would discourage others from attempting a similar action.

 

Because its not your account so you have no rights to know anything about it.

[EazyWin]

Wait, you are turning to the INTERNET to get away from the a-holes and bullies in real life!?

 

to a medium where everyone is anonymous and there are no consequences to being a dick?

 

 

This is like expecting the government to pay for your burnt down house because you didn't have insurance. Fires are rare, just like this case, and it sucks, but it is still your fault.

 

I wasn't even going to respond to this, but since others have I will weigh in. I think it would be more like if someone stole your credit card at an airport and bought a bunch of stuff with your money. Sure would suck but hey, maybe you shouldn't be carrying that thing around in your pocket and now you're on the hook for all of that. It's not the bank's fault you didn't feel that guy's hand in your pocket. Nothing they did made that guy steal from you. Also, in general the internet is a terrible place to be yes, but we can talk to the "gods" here and they have the power to make things a lot better here than other random places on the internet. The problem is that the gods only speak in the language of money.

[EazyWin]

Funny you say that after this

 

Right. Because nothing is guaranteed, but we still have to make judgements anyway. I have stated mine and you have stated yours.

[EazyWin]

Because its not your account so you have no rights to know anything about it.

 

A fair point. It's hard to believe in justice though if the courtroom is inaccessible.

[Warrgames]

A fair point. It's hard to believe in justice though if the courtroom is inaccessible.

 

This isn't court. There is no jury of their peers.

[EazyWin]

This isn't court. There is no jury of their peers.

 

You're right, my metaphor was imperfect. I should say there is no reason to abide by the Terms of Service if there is no discernible reason to do so. Regardless, you seem hostile... any reason?

 

Edit: This isn't because I'm not giving you my stuff, is it? Because this is not how you go about getting free stuff. Reference the first post of this thread for the how-to.

Edited February 27, 2015 by EazyWin

[Theeko]

really think they should refund the guild it was the officers faults anyway but in the best interest of the game I really do think it should be counted as lost items.