Most powerful & intelligent sith and jedi

[Ravanofdarkness]

I would have to say Jedi/Darth Revan.

[andrewtwofivetwo]

sidous isnt the most powerful sith but he may be the most cunning,thats a BIG thing in my book for a good sith

[Oonkeh_]

sidous isnt the most powerful sith but he may be the most cunning,thats a BIG thing in my book for a good sith

 

By both EU and Movie standards, he is the most powerful Sith Lord.

 

Darth Caydos lerned all the force thechnics he was the most power sith and jedi not luke

 

Darth Caedus, you mean. In the EU, Luke was holding back from killing Caedus because Ben would've fallen to the Dark Side. Caedus attests that Luke would've killed him with ease had he intended to do so. In the EU, Luke also demonstrates that Caedus is nowhere near as powerful as Sidious or he himself is, simply by dominating Caedus with telekinesis alone.

 

For a Force-user to be able to dominate another Force-user with telekinesis they need to be in a totally higher league due to the natural aura's permeating from them, which grant them some immunity from the effects of telekinesis etc, or the user is worn down from an initial battle which enables the use of Telekinesis. Luke out-right dominates Caedus with a single gesture, which tells you just HOW powerful Luke was in comparison to Caedus. They didn't even duel, Luke simply walked in and pinned Caedus against a wall with the flick of a hand.

 

In a duel between Luke and Sidious, Leia attested that they were moving so fast that she couldn't actually even see them - but sensed that the Light was winning over the Darkness. Caedus is not capable of these speeds against Luke at his peak, where as Sidious was; this is not taking into account Luke's capability when he achieved oneness with the Force during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, where it was described that he was moving so fast that it was like he were wielding 12 lightsabers at once against the Vong. Luke also anchored himself in the Heart of the Force that not even a black-hole could move him. Nothing could move him. He was, in given form, the Force itself at that point.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Oonkeh_

[Axsagon]

yes but after he learned the shuter point thechnic he could beat luke in one toch

[Jackedlance]

Palpatine is obiviously the best Sith. He brought down the jedi order and the republic practically single handedly. I'll admit Revan had cooler clothes but he's no match for Palpatine.

 

Best jedi would be Yoda of course. He embodied everything a jedi is supposed to be and was still probably the humblest one. He was grand master of the order for a reason.

[Gestahlt]

This isn't even a question.

 

Sith = Palpatine.

Jedi = Luke.

 

There are a lot of people near them, but those two stand above the rest.

[Downsizeit]

Considering I know practically nothing about EU stuff, I can't really comment on Luke. Based on what I've read in this thread, he apparently becomes the ultimate bad***. Who would've guessed. Seemed like a pansy to me in the movies.

 

Personally, I'd go with Mace Windu. Dude was a serious bad*** and actually beat Sidious except for Anakin's interference. Granted, he doesn't sling the force mojo around like Yoda or Sidious does, but Windu was one of the few Jedi who could harness his darker emotions and not allow them to take control. (Hence the effectiveness of the saber form he invented.) Anyway, I know I will get batted down by all you guys who know more than I do on the subject.

 

For Sith, Sidious is hard to argue with even without the EU. He did what no nother Sith ever did, conquered the galaxy and defeated the Jedi. Although I love Revan and Nihilus and Bane, Sidious really stands above all the rest of the Sith.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Downsizeit

[LordQordisz]

I would not say he is the most intellegent Sith but Bane did institute a new order which actually allowed the Sith you conquer the Republic. "The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves. They had become new."

[mdhtwo]

For Jedi and Power I'd have to say Luke, though I'm not sold on the wisdom/intelligence. There Yoda probably gets my vote.

 

Sith it's Palpatine all the way, he had everything, both in terms of power and intellect, the guy not only led the Jedi and Senate around by the noses, but he managed to win over Dooku, who was himself considered one of the most powerful and intelligent of the Jedi of his day. In short the Emperor had it all.

[Mikemartel]

Have you all forget about darth plagueis, the most powerful sith lord

[COLOSAL]

There are no intelligent sith,or jedi... only bounty hunters have the intellect... better switch toons...

[EnsignSorrow]

By both EU and Movie standards, he is the most powerful Sith Lord.

 

 

 

Darth Caedus, you mean. In the EU, Luke was holding back from killing Caedus because Ben would've fallen to the Dark Side. Caedus attests that Luke would've killed him with ease had he intended to do so. In the EU, Luke also demonstrates that Caedus is nowhere near as powerful as Sidious or he himself is, simply by dominating Caedus with telekinesis alone.

 

For a Force-user to be able to dominate another Force-user with telekinesis they need to be in a totally higher league due to the natural aura's permeating from them, which grant them some immunity from the effects of telekinesis etc, or the user is worn down from an initial battle which enables the use of Telekinesis. Luke out-right dominates Caedus with a single gesture, which tells you just HOW powerful Luke was in comparison to Caedus. They didn't even duel, Luke simply walked in and pinned Caedus against a wall with the flick of a hand.

 

In a duel between Luke and Sidious, Leia attested that they were moving so fast that she couldn't actually even see them - but sensed that the Light was winning over the Darkness. Caedus is not capable of these speeds against Luke at his peak, where as Sidious was; this is not taking into account Luke's capability when he achieved oneness with the Force during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, where it was described that he was moving so fast that it was like he were wielding 12 lightsabers at once against the Vong. Luke also anchored himself in the Heart of the Force that not even a black-hole could move him. Nothing could move him. He was, in given form, the Force itself at that point.

 

That is intense.

 

I didn't know Luke was that powerful. In that case for Jedi I'd have to say Luke, and then possibly Anakin Skywalker. I think he could of been potentially the strongest Jedi ever if he hadn't betrayed everyone, and turned to the dark side of the force.

 

For Sith, I'd have to go with Emperor Palpatine. Although, I really liked Darth Nihilus, while he wasn't the most powerful, he was a wound in the force, and I always thought that was a interesting concept.

Edited December 14, 2011 by EnsignSorrow

[CodenameMaul]

Master Yoda is only true jedi in my opinion.The strongest with force and so on...

[Castiel]

Darth Sidious, Luke Skywalker.

 

Why? Because it's canon. And as people are going by EU Lore, you have to consider the EU behind Luke and Sidious because Revan is 100% EU as well. Ignore their EU, I can ignore Revan ever existing.

 

.

 

I chose to ignore that Sidious ever existed

 

BTW anyone thought about Sion, and what he could have achieved had he learned more ? He was, for all intents and purposes, immortal without resorting to clone bodies.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Castiel

[MarbleDaemon]

Hi guys,

 

It's kinda weird when you discuss about a Jedi/Sith's intelligence as intelligence does not play any role in judging a Jedi or a Sith. Only wisdom is important for Jedi/Sith. And if you insist, I don't think Luke is not really brilliant nor intelligent. Palpatine might be intelligent but all his plans demonstrate how wise he is. And if you want someone more wise than Luke, then think about Obi Wan or Yoda.

 

Revan is not really intelligent nor wise as he went right into the hand of the Sith Emperor. Later on he once again was manipulated by the Jedi to fight against the Sith.

 

Finally, a wise Jedi/Sith might not be a powerful one nor inverse.

[Calkinator]

sidious or nihilus

exar kun is a cool character but he's not all that powerful up against other sith

 

luke or yoda

i like obi-wan and although he's real powerful he just doesnt stack up at all

[coloroutloud]

Most powerful sith in my opinion is either Darth Caedus, Darth Bane(started the rule of two) or Exar Kun, Jedi would go to Yoda and Luke. i'll give you a link to the sith pages to explore.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Caedus

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Bane

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Exar_Kun

 

Anyways, read more into the series. Its good stuff.

[Sirenn]

use the swartz

hmm mayby darth helmet now that i think of it

or mark hamels sith on jay and silent bob strike back darth cockknocker

Edited December 14, 2011 by Sirenn

[coloroutloud]

By both EU and Movie standards, he is the most powerful Sith Lord.

 

 

 

Darth Caedus, you mean. In the EU, Luke was holding back from killing Caedus because Ben would've fallen to the Dark Side. Caedus attests that Luke would've killed him with ease had he intended to do so. In the EU, Luke also demonstrates that Caedus is nowhere near as powerful as Sidious or he himself is, simply by dominating Caedus with telekinesis alone.

 

For a Force-user to be able to dominate another Force-user with telekinesis they need to be in a totally higher league due to the natural aura's permeating from them, which grant them some immunity from the effects of telekinesis etc, or the user is worn down from an initial battle which enables the use of Telekinesis. Luke out-right dominates Caedus with a single gesture, which tells you just HOW powerful Luke was in comparison to Caedus. They didn't even duel, Luke simply walked in and pinned Caedus against a wall with the flick of a hand.

 

In a duel between Luke and Sidious, Leia attested that they were moving so fast that she couldn't actually even see them - but sensed that the Light was winning over the Darkness. Caedus is not capable of these speeds against Luke at his peak, where as Sidious was; this is not taking into account Luke's capability when he achieved oneness with the Force during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, where it was described that he was moving so fast that it was like he were wielding 12 lightsabers at once against the Vong. Luke also anchored himself in the Heart of the Force that not even a black-hole could move him. Nothing could move him. He was, in given form, the Force itself at that point.

 

You are right about Luke being the most powerful, but your argument is flawed. When Luke fought Palpatine, he was merely beginning to understand the force. Palpatine was bested by Mace Windu as well and would have died had Anakin not saved him. Luke would not fight Palpatine either for fear of turning into his father in episode 6 and would not fall to the dark side. Anakin Skywalker kills Palpatine and Luke is left to deal with the clones of palpatine, and also falls to the dark side for a brief period of time(was pretty cool). Now if you were to say wisest, maybe palpatine, but your argument is going off of power so i will say you are wrong in picking palpatine. Darth Bane is destroyed an entire order of sith with a force technique he learned The Thought Bomb. That he tricked an enitre order of sith into activating a bomb into their deaths along with killing over 3/4ths of the jedi assaulting them at the same time. Now sheer power, Bane was pretty much undefeated in battle. He knew techniques no other sith ever learned. His lore is quite incredible. Caedus is also very strong. Yes, luke could have killed him, but that doesnt make him less powerful. You are comparing two different things here. Luke has had 40 years or more at this time that he fought Caedus. Then you are comparing luke when he was new to the force against palpatine. Now if you were to put luke from the portion of star wars history where he has had 40 years to attune his powers against palpatine, luke could have easily killed him too. Caedus, did the same thing palpatine did, took over the government and eventually called himself leader, yet jacen... sorry Caedus knew soo many techniques that it made him a huge threat. What made him powerful wasnt entirely his power in the force, but his diplomacy and sheer ability to make people follow him. I'm not saying Caedus is the most powerful, but compared to palpatine, i would think they are close together. He killed Mara Jade which, Palpatines assassin, and Lukes wife and she is a more than competent jedi. Caedus burnt Kashyyyk. I will not deny, even encourage your arguments about luke being the best jedi, because he is. Hands down, no one comes close. Exar kun is another to be considered in the most powerful sith. I will not even begin to talk about his exploits on here, and im sure you are well aware. These are just my opinions of course and neither of us can be proven right or wrong i suppose. But just throwing out some othersides of the arguments here.

[coloroutloud]

For Sith, I'd say it is Naga Sadow for most powerful and intelligent Sith with Darth Bane coming in a close second place. As for Jedi... I'm not really sure, but it DEFINITELY isn't Luke... Luke doesn't really know much at all. And his power leaves a bit to be desired. Quite a few of his Jedi disciples surpass him in the faculties of power as well a wisdom eventually. The wisest and most powerful Jedi might actually be the reborn Revan. But I'm really not sure.

 

How much EU have you read after episode six? Because Luke is way more powerful than i ever thought a jedi would come to be.

[Ldogg]

Simply it's Luke and Sidious. Why? 'cause GL said so and G-canon rules overall. But neither are my favorite. And their are some other ******es out there. Revan was considered the heart of the force. The Emperor in this game is pretty sick. I haven't read the Revan book that just came out yet, but I heard a little about it and the Emperor sounds like he is almost on par with Sidious. And like like someone else said Yoda was the greatest Jedi up until Luke.

[Kellan]

^ This.

 

However if we look at some the examples we DO have, you can make arguments for Luke and Palps.

 

Palpatine/Sidious - Existed during the Rule of Two, orchestrated by Bane to increase the power of the Sith. Sidious went toe to toe with Yoda which demonstrates his knowledge of the force I'd say. He went toe to toe with Windu. He set into a motion a plan which would dissolve the Republic and formed the Galactic Empire, he took over the known universe. Hid his presence from the ENTIRETY of the Jedi, they had no idea he was a Sith until he basically told Anakin he was. Those examples definitely highlight his power, cunning, deception, and intelligence I'd say.

 

Luke - Learns about the force and a couple hours later uses it to block blaster bolts from training droid....hmmm think that decisively says he's a natural. By RotJ he's using Mind Trick, putting Gammoreans to sleep, seems to have mastered force jumping, and is pretty decent at levitation. Keep in mind he also hid himself from Vader on Death Star II when earlier in the movie he sensed him across the fleet. From just the movies Luke is showcasing some amazing ability and power...the scary part is that like Anakin it comes naturally to him.

 

These are just instance from the movies to showcase some examples for the argument, the EU expands upon this even more.

[Oonkeh_]

You are right about Luke being the most powerful, but your argument is flawed. When Luke fought Palpatine, he was merely beginning to understand the force. Palpatine was bested by Mace Windu as well and would have died had Anakin not saved him. Luke would not fight Palpatine either for fear of turning into his father in episode 6 and would not fall to the dark side. Anakin Skywalker kills Palpatine and Luke is left to deal with the clones of palpatine, and also falls to the dark side for a brief period of time(was pretty cool). Now if you were to say wisest, maybe palpatine, but your argument is going off of power so i will say you are wrong in picking palpatine. Darth Bane is destroyed an entire order of sith with a force technique he learned The Thought Bomb. That he tricked an enitre order of sith into activating a bomb into their deaths along with killing over 3/4ths of the jedi assaulting them at the same time. Now sheer power, Bane was pretty much undefeated in battle. He knew techniques no other sith ever learned. His lore is quite incredible. Caedus is also very strong. Yes, luke could have killed him, but that doesnt make him less powerful. You are comparing two different things here. Luke has had 40 years or more at this time that he fought Caedus. Then you are comparing luke when he was new to the force against palpatine. Now if you were to put luke from the portion of star wars history where he has had 40 years to attune his powers against palpatine, luke could have easily killed him too. Caedus, did the same thing palpatine did, took over the government and eventually called himself leader, yet jacen... sorry Caedus knew soo many techniques that it made him a huge threat. What made him powerful wasnt entirely his power in the force, but his diplomacy and sheer ability to make people follow him. I'm not saying Caedus is the most powerful, but compared to palpatine, i would think they are close together. He killed Mara Jade which, Palpatines assassin, and Lukes wife and she is a more than competent jedi. Caedus burnt Kashyyyk. I will not deny, even encourage your arguments about luke being the best jedi, because he is. Hands down, no one comes close. Exar kun is another to be considered in the most powerful sith. I will not even begin to talk about his exploits on here, and im sure you are well aware. These are just my opinions of course and neither of us can be proven right or wrong i suppose. But just throwing out some othersides of the arguments here.

 

Actually, you're quite incorrect. Luke was actually very experienced in the force by the time of RotJ. He was not "new" at all. Read his EU that is set during the timeline of the OT.

 

About Mace Windu "besting" Sidious. He won the lightsaber duel, but he didn't defeat Sidious. In the RotS Novel which is considered as canon as the movie itself, Sidious bent Windu's lightsaber blade with a lightning surge even while he was holding back. Mace Windu STRUGGLED to keep his defenses against a Sidious whom was feigning weakness infront of Anakin - to turn Anakin. If Sidious, par the novel, had wanted to destroy Mace Windu outright with the force.. he would have there and then. No other force user has ever bent a lightsaber blade with lightning.

 

Again Darth Caedus wasn't as powerful as people were making him out to be. He was nowhere near Sidious's level of Force Expertise (Sidious knew ALL Force powers and Lightsaber forms and could create force powers on the spot, he mastered each lightsaber form to be exact). In the EU Caedus attests that had Luke intended, Caedus would have been dead in seconds. I read the EU involving it. Caedus was no more than a Vader-level Sith. Luke was even holding back in the duel where Caedus managed to wound him, and that was all he was able to do. Wound. And he still could not win because he simply was no where near Luke or Sidious's measure of power. Compared to Abeloth, Caedus isn't even that much of an impressive Force user - Abeloth DOMINATED Luke who was going all-out the second time they fought, so much as to make Luke look like an amateur, which was what Luke did to Caedus and what Sidious did to Luke prior.

 

Unlike Caedus, Sidious could destroy planets. That's a huge gap between the two in terms of force power.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Oonkeh_

[Aeryel]

Sith,

 

I would vote for dee Emprah of the true Sith Empire. Palpatine can be the one but he screwed up at the Death Star II by ordering hold position on his fleet. I havent found Tenebre's mistake yet. Maybe starring in this game?

 

Jedi,

 

Tera Sinube. Although he is not as powful as Yoda, Obi, and others, his relaxed and precise style shows what is the light side should be. As you know, light side is not glory and honor in battlefield but close to mental training. He practices well to limit recklessness while finishing important job. In other words, he reminds me Yang Wenli in the Legend of Galactic Heroes.

[Judalos]

IMO simply Starkiller aka Galen Marek