Slinger vs. Underlurker

[Kacynski]

Hi there,

 

me and my team have a hard time with the Underlurker and we are pretty sure it is mostly a DPS issue. In this group I am one of the dps'ers which is a bit unfamiliar for me as I'm mostly healing these days.

But for now I'm there with my Slinger and to be honest, I just don't pull the numbers necessary for this fight.

 

I'm specc'd into Engineering, which is the disziplin I'm most familiar with. I also think it should be performing not too bad against the Underlurker. But as i said, my logfiles show the sad truth, I'm doing the lowest damage of our group and in total we just don't have enough.

 

So, time to get better. And that's where I hope some experienced Slingers (preferrably Engineering) can help me out with some specific tips for this fight, but also with some general advice on how to improve.

[myspersson]

If you wanna do it easymode you respec to SS/MM and spam sweeping gunfire when the ads are up.

You can hit 2 ads with it, and if your tank is nice you can hit the boss aswell.

 

I know you have the potential to do more dmg in engi/sab but its alot more work.

I easily break 4k DPS as MM with standard-rotation on boss and spamming sweeping gunfire when the ads are up.

[Aerilas]

If you wanna do it easymode you respec to SS/MM and spam sweeping gunfire when the ads are up.

You can hit 2 ads with it, and if your tank is nice you can hit the boss aswell.

 

I know you have the potential to do more dmg in engi/sab but its alot more work.

I easily break 4k DPS as MM with standard-rotation on boss and spamming sweeping gunfire when the ads are up.

 

Hmmm I don't use sweeping gunfire (assuming thats suppressive fire) much on the underlurker, and i still often barely scrape the bottom of 4k on the fight. I'm the one that helps the other dps with their adds and I targetswitch to get them all down at the same time. Suppressive Fire just isn't as effective as in some other bosses imo.

Oh, yes, I'm MM/SS.

 

I personally can't say anything about engineering because for some reason, no matter how much I've tried, I can't seem to make the spec work for me.

[SalvorHardin]

In MM/SS, Sweeping Gunfire/Suppressive Fire IS the best option for adds on Underlurker if you can hit the boss as well as 2 adds.

 

In fact, this AoE becomes the best DPS option as soon as you can use it on at least 2 targets: I do (and maintain - as long as I have energy) 2.5K DPS per target spamming Sweeping Gunfire while my best single target parse is at 4.67K.

[MasterKast]

i use sab/engi for that fight. actually thats the only fight i use that spec since me and my sage dps buddy we are mostly aoe **** of everything.

 

so basicly what we do is; tank pulling the boss between 2 adds, i throw a fire grenade, orbital strike followed with sweeping gun fire. numbers are very satisfying.

 

after 1 or 2 of add dies, you can go back to your sng target rotation while you look someplace to hide. you can also continue dpsing while in cover with sweeping gunfire. ( you have to place yourself with an angle so you can place an aoe to continue dps) little bit risky if you cant adjust your angle or stay out of green staff.

 

 

this is me, doin my thing. hope its helpfull

[Kacynski]

Thanks for the help so far, I think I will give MM a try next week. I spent a few hours on the dummy already and start pulling similar numbers like I do with Sabotage and the energy management seems much less tight.

Now I just need train to do good numbers while on the run ...

[Elracor]

I usually go SS/MM at Underlurker, and then save Sniper/Burst Volley for the adds phase. The 10% alacrity and extra energy regen gives you a good damage boost to Sweeping/Suppressive without running out of energy.

[Camelpockets]

i use sab/engi for that fight. actually thats the only fight i use that spec since me and my sage dps buddy we are mostly aoe **** of everything.

 

so basicly what we do is; tank pulling the boss between 2 adds, i throw a fire grenade, orbital strike followed with sweeping gun fire. numbers are very satisfying.

 

after 1 or 2 of add dies, you can go back to your sng target rotation while you look someplace to hide. you can also continue dpsing while in cover with sweeping gunfire. ( you have to place yourself with an angle so you can place an aoe to continue dps) little bit risky if you cant adjust your angle or stay out of green staff.

 

 

this is me, doin my thing. hope its helpfull

 

I pretty much do the same thing, but to ensure I dont energy strain myself, I put a sabotage charge on one of the adds, and detonate the charges with the sweeping gunfire. Also keeping dots on the boss is helpful as well.

[Kacynski]

That video was very good, thanks a lot for that. I think this might help our group as a whole. Also thanks for the heads up Camel, good to have more than one assessment, your guide is very helpful, too!

 

How do you swap targets most efficiently in MM or Sabo respectivly, i.e. at which part of the respective rotation do you take off? Casting Fly-by or not? (I usually never do this mid fight). I am at a point, where I think I'm doing ok during practice (dummy), but my DPS goes completely down the drain in an actual boss fight.

Anyway I think I need practice, practice and practice mostly, but any tips are really appreciated

[-Gorlock-]

If you wanna do it easymode you respec to SS/MM and spam sweeping gunfire when the ads are up.

You can hit 2 ads with it, and if your tank is nice you can hit the boss aswell.

 

I know you have the potential to do more dmg in engi/sab but its alot more work.

I easily break 4k DPS as MM with standard-rotation on boss and spamming sweeping gunfire when the ads are up.

 

Going to have to disagree here. If you are not pulling the numbers normally then spamming sweeping gunfire isnt going to help at all. In fact its only lying to your raid and your own numbers as you are not effectively killing what needs the be killed. Instead you are fluffing your numbers to make yourself look good, when in reality you are not providing much help to your raid, that is already, as OP said, lacking in DPS. I play a sniper and run Engineering on the fight, and I put upwards past 3.7k.

[Elracor]

Going to have to disagree here. If you are not pulling the numbers normally then spamming sweeping gunfire isnt going to help at all. In fact its only lying to your raid and your own numbers as you are not effectively killing what needs the be killed. Instead you are fluffing your numbers to make yourself look good, when in reality you are not providing much help to your raid, that is already, as OP said, lacking in DPS. I play a sniper and run Engineering on the fight, and I put upwards past 3.7k.

 

What are you talkiing about? If you use Sweeping/Suppresive to hit 2 adds and boss, you're hitting targets that need to be killed. There's no fluff involved here at all.

[-Gorlock-]

What are you talkiing about? If you use Sweeping/Suppresive to hit 2 adds and boss, you're hitting targets that need to be killed. There's no fluff involved here at all.

 

Sweeping fire doesnt kill things effectively, thus you are fluffing your numbers. Everything in a raid needs to be killed, that is a given but it does not justify fluffing your numbers.

[Vaidinah]

Sweeping fire doesnt kill things effectively, thus you are fluffing your numbers. Everything in a raid needs to be killed, that is a given but it does not justify fluffing your numbers.

 

One player alone just spamming AoE and nothing else isn't good because the adds will take forever to die while your team takes damage even though this is the highest DPS for that player. However, most groups that I've seen have at least 2-3 players who do this and in that case, the adds will die significantly faster than if they were single-targeted down. This is especially true for Sages/Sorcs + Gunslingers/Snipers since they hit 3 targets with their AoE, lose damage when swapping (though, we lose the least as Sharpshooter/Marksman) and their AoE damage is ridiculously high compared to most classes due to massive area of the effect of a couple skills.

[-Gorlock-]

One player alone just spamming AoE and nothing else isn't good because the adds will take forever to die while your team takes damage even though this is the highest DPS for that player. However, most groups that I've seen have at least 2-3 players who do this and in that case, the adds will die significantly faster than if they were single-targeted down. This is especially true for Sages/Sorcs + Gunslingers/Snipers since they hit 3 targets with their AoE, lose damage when swapping (though, we lose the least as Sharpshooter/Marksman) and their AoE damage is ridiculously high compared to most classes due to massive area of the effect of a couple skills.

 

True enough, but this is not the situation the OP is having at the moment. This is indeed a suggestion but I do not see it fixing their overall dps issue.

[Kacynski]

Yeah, as I said I think we are lacking dps as a group, but first things first so I have to make sure that my contribution is up to par at least and worry about the others later. But as far as I know them they are likely going to improve their class play as well.

 

So, Sabotage and Marksman are both utilizied successfully against the Lurker, so either of these should do. I have been playing with the training dummy with both specs and I get about 200 dps more out of Sabotage consistently. But I have the feeling that MM might be the better choice for a non-expert Slinger like me, as it is much easier to maintain engergy and I think it also is much better at switching targets. I will give it a go next week.

[-Gorlock-]

Yeah, as I said I think we are lacking dps as a group, but first things first so I have to make sure that my contribution is up to par at least and worry about the others later. But as far as I know them they are likely going to improve their class play as well.

 

So, Sabotage and Marksman are both utilizied successfully against the Lurker, so either of these should do. I have been playing with the training dummy with both specs and I get about 200 dps more out of Sabotage consistently. But I have the feeling that MM might be the better choice for a non-expert Slinger like me, as it is much easier to maintain engergy and I think it also is much better at switching targets. I will give it a go next week.

 

Good luck, its all about preference, never forget that.

[Metthew]

There is no "fluff damage" in PvE unless the adds are healing up. It's a concept for mostly PvP where heals are always existant in some form.

 

Using AoE increases TTK slightly, which is instead a somewhat greater load on your healers. But in total adds do die faster with increased total DPS.

[Camelpockets]

Hmm... Charged burst or sweeping gunfire? I think I know my choice in that situation :3

[MasterKast]

"fluffing" would be aoe dps load-lifters or mine carts on bulo fight that is going for maintank or dpsing hands on brontes fiight after 1st phase.

 

its not "fluffing" if you dps the targets that needs to be killed. while using sab, you buff all your aoe dmg with incendary grenade + 25% dmg buff from utilities, sweeping gun fire + flyby you do as much as you would on regular single target dmg (2,5-3,5k hits for each target). after 3.0 sweeping gun fire became very powerfull and my personal idea is, it need to be used when there is 2+ targets to dps. (without starving yourself out of energy ofc)

 

your raid composition is also important for your spec. in our case we have 1 vanguard and commando dps on sng target spec, slinger + sage does aoe, which is enough to make the kills in time. if there is enough aoe already in your team, then you might have to go on SS (MM) spec. (do not also forget to take hunkerdown cd reduction + speed buff after HD + 60% aoe dmg reduction which are very helpfull on this fight - i dont remember utility names right now.)

[Elracor]

Sweeping fire doesnt kill things effectively, thus you are fluffing your numbers. Everything in a raid needs to be killed, that is a given but it does not justify fluffing your numbers.

 

I 100% disagree with this. There is no way you can fluff numbers at Underlurker unless you're hitting adds when boss is below ~5-10% as you usually just burn the boss at that point.

 

With Sweeping you can hit 2-3 targets during the adds phases, and especially in MM/SS Sweeping is your hardest hitting skill when there's 2 targets or more. When there's only 1 lurkerling alive you should swap to single target DPS to kill that last lurkerling faster, but until that point there's IMO zero reason not to AoE.

Even if the rest of your DPS can't do decent AoE (and if that's the case the other DPS are the problem IMO), you'll still be getting your group closer at killing all three adds before Rage Storm starts.

Edited February 24, 2015 by MFollin

[Camelpockets]

I don't like fluff. Do you guys? Like PB and Fluff sandwiches? It's just gross. I can't even.

[Kacynski]

So, had another couple of tries at the UL last this week, although just 3 or 4 pulls because we didn't have enough time. Anyway this time I tried it with SS and it didn't seem to go well

 

Hitting the adds with Sweeping Gunfire did work well, but dps'ing the UL was a pain. I felt completely immobile because all skills are casted or channeled and nothing can be done on the run. I will go back to Sabo for this fight, I guess. While it does have less burst, the damage output while moving should be much higher.

 

Also hitting at least two (preferrably 3) targets needs some practice to be able to quickly place the AoE markers on the right spot. I think if we have this fight figured out completely and on farm, Sweeping Gunfire will be the best move to get adds down quickly, but as we are still learning, I will stay with the more mobile specc.

 

Does anyone have some good pointers how this fight can be learned? Like marking people that they know where to run to and where to stand in the cross and things like that?

[-Gorlock-]

Good choice

 

There are two ways of doing this, splitting up the dps (I have never tried this but I assume it works well) to each add or everyone bursts each add one by one (This works but if you are having trouble getting to the next add you might way to split up the dps). It is ideal for everyone to get behind one rock. That way the boss is already at everyone and you stand in the cross just like storymode. It is best to pop a defensive before he finishes the cast, to negate the damage that sometimes seems to hit for pretty high on one person. I think there is a tank swap or something, I have not tanked in Hardmode so I do not know.

 

P.S. Target the closest add if you are going to burst them all down one by one.