Ways to improve some of the utilties for Guardians and Sith Juggernauts (Not all)

[adproduction]

I copied and pasted this from VeSev topic.

 

Skillful:

Payback / Second Wind: Reduces the cooldown of Unleash / Resolute by 30 seconds and causes Unleash / Resolute to heal you for 10% of your maximum health when used.

 

I think a way to improve on this would be let it critical and have it affect by the surge rating. (Not the base rating) So if you have 25% worth of surge gear, you'll get 35% heal increase on a critical Unleash/Resolution based on your health.

 

Warmonger / Battlefield Command: Getting attacked reduces the active cooldown of Force Charge / Force Leap by 1 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds.

 

How about getting attack allows a certain percentage of a chance (10% to 20%) to completely reduce the cooldown of Force Charge/Force leap by 100%.

 

Overwhelmed / Debilitation: Ravage / Master Strike immobilizes the target for the duration of the ability.

 

Just make this apart of Ravage/Master Strike anyway. Plus, I don't use this to snare people and the animation follows the person when they run around me. The only time running is a problem is if the person is fleeing. However, it's hard to run forward and shot backwards. Just chilling scream or Smash/Force sweep with skill utility, and you can perform this with little trouble. I often skill this utility and still do well in pvp.

 

Pooled Hatred / Gather Strength: When your movement is impaired, you gain a 5% damage bonus to your next ability that consumes Rage / Focus. This effect can stack up 5 times and lasts 15 seconds.

 

Change to every second you have your movement impaired, you gain 2% damage bonus to your next ability that consumes Rage/Focus in Shien and Shii-Cho form while Soresu form, you gain 2% damage reduction to all attacks. This bonus stacks up to 20%.

 

Path Carver / Trailblazer: Sweeping Slash / Cyclone Slash deals 25% more damage.

On top of this, I was hoping Sweeping Slash/Cyclone Slash skill itself get 5% more damage for every kill for 10 seconds and is used up on the next Sweeping Slash/Cyclone Slash. That way it can be more useful.

 

Stagger: Increases the duration of Force Charge / Force Leap’s immobilization effect by 1 seconds.

Useless and see Ravage/Master Strike. I rarely used this snare opponents. Rather I use it to cross the thrash whole. I would love to be to use Force Charge/Force Leap at a 8m range though.

 

Masterful:

Strangulate / Pulse: Reduces the cooldown of Force Choke / Force Stasis by 15 seconds.

I just wanted to add that I wish Force Choke/Force Stasis would be change to Force Pull. I really don't know why Bioware gave us this move. We are tanks and dps. We prefer getting close to our opponents not hang'em high or push them away.

 

Emboldening Scream / Inspiring Force: Chilling scream / Freezing Force increases the movement speed of all allies within 8 meters, excluding yourself, by 50% for 8 seconds.

 

Should include a cleansing of movement impairments only and immunity to movement impairment for the duration. Also would love for Freezing Force/Chilling Scream to get 10m instead of 8m. (Does not include yourself)

 

 

I know I'm going to get a lot of naysay for these idea and they are going to be considered stupid by some, but these are just ideas. What do you guys think?

Edited February 12, 2015 by adproduction

[AdrianDmitruk]

I copied and pasted this from VeSev topic.

 

*snip for brevity*

 

Seething Hatred / Preparation: When you exit combat, the active cooldown of Force Charge / Force Leap, Enrage/ Combat Focus, and Saber Throw are reduced by 100%

 

Rarely happens and useless. How about for every kill you get 100% cooldown on Force Charge/Leap, Enrage/Combat Focus, and Saber Throw because in PvP I'm rarely out of combat. In PvE, my cooldowns are done by the time we get to the next group during raids and flashpoints.

 

 

I know I'm going to get a lot of naysay for these idea and they are going to be considered stupid by some, but these are just ideas. What do you guys think?

 

I'm just going to point out that Seething Hatred actually does have a use, and a good one at that. It's a huge QoL utility for running dailies. Saber Throw, Force Charge, optional dot for spread, Vengeful Slam. Mob dead, or maybe there's one silver that's one hit away from dead. You're back out of combat within 4 GCDs of initiating it, maybe 5 if you're unlucky.

 

Seething Hatred resets your cooldowns right quick, allowing you to chain pull the next mob for efficient killing. Is it situational? Yes. But the utility is very good when you want to kill as much standard trash as possible, as quickly as possible (i.e. dailies).

 

If you don't do content where that is useful to you, you do have other choices...

[adproduction]

I'm just going to point out that Seething Hatred actually does have a use, and a good one at that. It's a huge QoL utility for running dailies. Saber Throw, Force Charge, optional dot for spread, Vengeful Slam. Mob dead, or maybe there's one silver that's one hit away from dead. You're back out of combat within 4 GCDs of initiating it, maybe 5 if you're unlucky.

 

Seething Hatred resets your cooldowns right quick, allowing you to chain pull the next mob for efficient killing. Is it situational? Yes. But the utility is very good when you want to kill as much standard trash as possible, as quickly as possible (i.e. dailies).

 

If you don't do content where that is useful to you, you do have other choices...

 

Wouldn't "per kill" do the do same "exiting combat" in this example you provided considering you're using the utility to kill trash mobs?

[AdrianDmitruk]

Wouldn't "per kill" do the do same "exiting combat" in this example you provided considering you're using the utility to kill trash mobs?

 

No, "per kill" would be drastically OP, and not just for doing dailies. Per kill would break PVP as well--Guardians already have a leap reset.

 

I could just imagine this:

 

Guardian kills ballcarrier in huttball, somewhere around mid

Guardian leaps to someone at low health, crossing a firepit in the process (with unremitting!), vengeful slams them and one hit kills them

Guardian leaps to someone coming out of the respawn with his kill reset on leap, more unremitting, then Force pushes the respawner past the goal line

Guardian leaps to the push victim, past the goal line, scores all while still CC immune

 

Basically allowing kills to reset leap cooldown opens the door to absolutely crazy chains of CC immunity with unremitting/unstoppable--now the leap reset option has its own cooldown, and the exit combat restriction generally prevents chaining Unstoppable more than twice in a row (and again, that has a cooldown). Removing exit combat restriction will result in 3-4 chains of unremitting/unstoppable becoming fairly common, and I could see skilled players able to chain upwards of 20 seconds of full CC immunity. That's just too much.

 

Like I said, the utility does have use, and it is currently decently balanced; if you don't run content that makes good use of the utility, nothing is forcing you to pick a utility that you won't use!

[adproduction]

No, "per kill" would be drastically OP, and not just for doing dailies. Per kill would break PVP as well--Guardians already have a leap reset.

 

I could just imagine this:

 

Guardian kills ballcarrier in huttball, somewhere around mid

Guardian leaps to someone at low health, crossing a firepit in the process (with unremitting!), vengeful slams them and one hit kills them

Guardian leaps to someone coming out of the respawn with his kill reset on leap, more unremitting, then Force pushes the respawner past the goal line

Guardian leaps to the push victim, past the goal line, scores all while still CC immune

 

Basically allowing kills to reset leap cooldown opens the door to absolutely crazy chains of CC immunity with unremitting/unstoppable--now the leap reset option has its own cooldown, and the exit combat restriction generally prevents chaining Unstoppable more than twice in a row (and again, that has a cooldown). Removing exit combat restriction will result in 3-4 chains of unremitting/unstoppable becoming fairly common, and I could see skilled players able to chain upwards of 20 seconds of full CC immunity. That's just too much.

 

Like I said, the utility does have use, and it is currently decently balanced; if you don't run content that makes good use of the utility, nothing is forcing you to pick a utility that you won't use!

 

I'm not calling you a liar, but I haven't seen a single Vengeance/Vigilance video where a guy killed someone less than 6 seconds unless that person was extremely under-geared. Also as a Tank Spec, taking a Vengeance/Vigilance one on one isn't too much of a problem even though I don't use CCs much. The only way, I can see a Jedi/Sith flying around like this is if the whole team in pvp is under-geared or he gets lucky chain killing enemies who are already 2/10th of their health.

Edited February 11, 2015 by adproduction

[AdrianDmitruk]

I'm not calling you a liar, but I haven't seen a single Vengeance/Vigilance video where a guy killed someone less than 6 seconds unless that person was extremely under-geared. Also as a Tank Spec, taking a Vengeance/Vigilance one on one isn't too much of a problem even though I don't use CCs much. The only way, I can see a Jedi/Sith flying around like this is if the whole team in pvp is under-geared or he gets lucky chain killing enemies who are already 2/10th of their health.

 

I did stipulate that the initial leap was to someone who was low health, did I not?

 

Also I am not evaluating Vengeance/Vigilance spec as it is now. I am evaluating where it would be if Seething Hatred allowed a kill to reset leap without the exit combat requirement. Of course you don't have issues with it now, and of course there aren't videos of 20 second Unstoppable chains now, because now the utility is balanced. It might not be very useful for what content you play, but it's balanced and it has a viable purpose.

 

You are proposing a change to the utility that can, and probably will, alter that balance considerably. I also suspect you underestimate the population of mouth breathers in PVP who 1) don't know what a DCD is, 2) barely know what CC is, let alone when to use and when not to use it against Vengeance, and 3) would be more than happy to provide even average, let alone skilled, Vengeance players with free kills and therefore free leap resets.

 

(As my main is a PVP healer, I have some familiarity with the squishiness and prevalence of these mouth breathers.)

Edited February 12, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[adproduction]

I did stipulate that the initial leap was to someone who was low health, did I not?

 

Also I am not evaluating Vengeance/Vigilance spec as it is now. I am evaluating where it would be if Seething Hatred allowed a kill to reset leap without the exit combat requirement. Of course you don't have issues with it now, and of course there aren't videos of 20 second Unstoppable chains now, because now the utility is balanced. It might not be very useful for what content you play, but it's balanced and it has a viable purpose.

 

You are proposing a change to the utility that can, and probably will, alter that balance considerably. I also suspect you underestimate the population of mouth breathers in PVP who 1) don't know what a DCD is, and 2) would be more than happy to provide even average, let alone skilled, Vengeance players with free kills and therefore free leap resets.

 

(As my main is a PVP healer, I have some familiarity with the squishiness and prevalence of these mouth breathers.)

 

In said scenario, Vigilance/Vengeance spec character would not be in the wrong if he killed people that fast because this either means the team needs to update their gear, use protection measurements like shields, or have a stealth character take him out. Because if you have a character like this in pvp, then having a immediate cooldown after death is the least of that team's problems. I can see it being unfair to non-seasoned PUGs or under geared players who join wearing green, blues, and outdated modifications, but it would have no bearing on a team well geared and prepared.

 

I also played a Sith Assassin so I know a lot about cloth too, but I also know how to sneak up on people. BTW, in the various video, most fight last at 10 seconds and the character is often too heavily wounded to fight the next person. So he may kill a Sith Assassin, but maybe not be in shape to beat the Sith Sorcerer dps afterwards.

Edited February 12, 2015 by adproduction

[Djiini]

Seething Hatred / Preparation: When you exit combat, the active cooldown of Force Charge / Force Leap, Enrage/ Combat Focus, and Saber Throw are reduced by 100%

 

Rarely happens and useless.

 

HAHAHAHAHA.

 

You're dreaming.

[adproduction]

HAHAHAHAHA.

 

You're dreaming.

 

I pvp a lot and I'm rarely out of combat. One wave come as soon as we finish that way...literally a split second after finish that wave another wave comes at us. And in the RARE EVENT that we are out of combat, they are most likely attacking something else or someone else at which point it is no different from PvE.

 

In PvE, by the time I rest up most of my cooldowns are already done.

Edited February 12, 2015 by adproduction

[AdrianDmitruk]

In said scenario, Vigilance/Vengeance spec character would not be in the wrong if he killed people that fast because this either means the team needs to update their gear, use protection measurements like shields, or have a stealth character take him out. Because if you have a character like this in pvp, then having a immediate cooldown after death is the least of that team's problems. I can see it being unfair to non-seasoned PUGs or under geared players who join wearing green, blues, and outdated modifications, but it would have no bearing on a team well geared and prepared.

 

I also played a Sith Assassin so I know a lot about cloth too, but I also know how to sneak up on people. BTW, in the various video, most fight last at 10 seconds and the character is often too heavily wounded to fight the next person. So he may kill a Sith Assassin, but maybe not be in shape to beat the Sith Sorcerer dps afterwards.

 

Yeah, it's specifically the "non-seasoned PUGs" you mentioned that I'm worried about LOL.

 

It's not often that I stick up for PUGs because let's face it, I hate carrying them, but consider also the state of dotspread atm. The dotspread available to juggs themselves is NOT OP in any way, they don't really have a dedicated dot spec. However there ARE FOTM classes out there that DO have OP dotspread (hatred, I'm looking at you), and let's just say that I very, very frequently triage multiple pugs all around 20-30% health as a healer in PVP. Yes, I see this a lot. Yes I brave the solo queues.

 

On my server, a 2 hatred, 1 vengeance, 1 healer comp is common for premades. It's usually manageable now, even with hatred in its...current state. In that comp Vengeance isn't there to burst someone down 100-0; that's simply not what the spec is for. It's to mop up the AOE-dotted (lol) pugs with CC immunity; the pugs have already been dotted down to execute or near execute, the Vengeance just leapt to them, is ravaging with CC immunity and the root, and has a vicious throw at the ready. There's not a whole lot the pugs can do at this point, and bear in mind my only two options to help them out now are 1) to triage heals according to skill of the recipient, or 2) to attempt to AOE heal through the dots since they haven't been cleansable for a long time..

 

As it is now, I can manage the situation by triaging at least somewhat based on the skill of the recipient of my heals. You propose to turn every hapless pug from someone whom I can let die in favor of healing a more-skilled player, into a direct liability for me. I don't care if the mouth breather who can't deal 200 dps over the course of the warzone dies, because he's not really contributing, UNLESS it resets your leap and gives you more CC immunity that you clearly won't be needing. (Or unless it's hypergates and the derp's death just gave your team free points.)

 

Given some of the premades I regularly play against, given your proposed change, you may as well just remove the cooldown on leap entirely. I have no love for pugs but sadly my schedule working 2 jobs often separates me from guildies and friends, and I see this often when I can come on.

Edited February 12, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[adproduction]

Yeah, it's specifically the "non-seasoned PUGs" you mentioned that I'm worried about LOL.

 

Fair enough. I'll remove said move from the list as I play PUGs too. I hate premades as they feel like someone is holding your hand.

Edited February 12, 2015 by adproduction