Making it so High level characters can run with lower level without nerfing xp.

[Engeopathichero]

Long title for a problem that would be awesome if it could be solved. To explain why I think this would be an amazing thing: I have been playing for almost 3 years now, and have leveled several toons to max level over that time. Though I started on a different server then I currently play on, I still have 15 toons that are 55+.

 

Now where my problem comes in. I have 3 friends that recently started playing. I love being able to have some new friends join, except for one problem. I can't really level with them, or help them without nerfing their XP hard. I also hate roflstomping everything for them, as they can't really learn mechanics/rotations/gameplay with me basically killing everything for them. I do have the max character slots, but once they get on multiple toons it's going to be really, really hard to have fun with them while they level.

 

All three of these friends are leveling at different rates, and several have more than one toon already. So, my idea involves giving higher level characters the ability to "nerf" their own level so that they can run with characters of any level without A) Nerfing their XP, B) killing everything for them in one shot, C) forcing those that have played for awhile to delete characters just to have fun with new players.

 

As the last part of the last paragraph mentioned, I'm at the point where I might have to delete characters as soon as I get them to max level simply to level with friends. The other great thing about this is we wouldn't have to save characters simply so we can level with friends, we all could level at our own pace.

 

The idea would work somewhat like a reverse bolster. Instead of bolstering our stats to a higher amount, reverse it to be closer to lower levels instead of higher levels. That way, I can still level with my friends without having to make and delete toons just to level with them. This would help in so many ways.

 

This is a huge quality of life improvement if it can be implemented.

 

It would also solve the problem of server capacity with having only 22 character slots. That way, I could max all my toons to 60 and still be able to do stuff with my friends who are just starting. I know other MMO's use similar systems to allow their veterans to play with noob friends.

 

I hope my idea is clear enough, and I hope that someday it can be implemented. This would really help us as players out. Thanks in advance for considering the idea.

[branmakmuffin]

Long title for a problem that would be awesome if it could be solved.

Not really the solution to a problem so much as a nice QoL option. None of the 3 MMOs I have played extensively have it (unless DDO and/or LotRO have added it since I stopped playing).

Edited February 7, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[DEATHICIDE]

I made this very same suggestion over a year ago.

 

A huge problem with this game is leveling with friends, what are the odds that our levels will be "within no nerf range" for any real amount of time even when rolling new toons to try and play with leveling friends?

 

I have always thought that when joining a group, the higher level characters should be given a pop up asking "would you like to enable level matching? - your personal experience levels will not be altered however you may have your stats bolstered to match your party's level. Declining this will cause your party members to receive decreased experience- yes-no?"

 

Anything like this would surge this game with more players.

I have several friends who aren't good at games and who would like to play with me, but I'm never near their level.

This idea would most DEFINITELY result in lots more subscriptions to the game, and is a win win for everyone.

 

I will definitely be giving this post a 5 star rating, and encourage others to do the same.

[Muljo_Stpho]

My guess, from the trouble they seem to have with bolster any time the level cap goes up and/or a new tier of gear is added, is that bolster... isn't set up to scale itself dynamically. I mean, the devs have to step in and fine-tune its settings themselves every time something changes.

 

So it could be that they would have to throw out that implementation completely and replace it with a brand new implementation that is designed from the ground up to have better scaling options that can adjust to any level on demand along with also having a down-scaling ability built-in. A new bolster function that takes in parameters like min_level, min_ilevel, max_level, and max_ilevel. (And many more settings beyond those, of course. Something that tells it to balance for green, blue, or purple stat budgets? Something to tell it whether or not to account for augments (or perhaps even break the ilevel parameters down into separate settings for armoring/hilt/barrel, mod, enhancement, and augment)? Something to tell it whether or not to do anything with expertise? Something identifying a specific way to handle empty modification slots (exactly which type/variant to pretend is placed in that slot)?) It applies a fully customized buff to your character for the situation in which the buff was applied instead of having one generic bolster buff, and it makes the appropriate changes where you're outside the designated ranges for level or for an item's rating.

 

Then it's a matter of being smart about coding in the calls to that function with appropriate parameters for each different instance where bolster can be applied. (These can be wrapped up in appropriately named functions for common uses. So if there is a problem with the settings passed to the actual function through parameters they have the call with all of the parameters in one known place in the code instead of having to track down different places where that same call was copy-pasted.) Then we could have all sorts of group bolsters and heroic mission bolsters and planet bolsters and flashpoint bolsters and warzone bolsters and solo bolsters (like Makeb GSI buff with its in-combat healing, also add a significant presence boost on top of that) and whatever else... all custom tailored for the level of the content and with appropriate prompts (like the topic creator described) or stations (like the GSI thing on Makeb) so that players can opt-in / opt-out as they see fit.

 

Idea for tactical flashpoints or even an idea for tactical conversions of all story mode flashpoints: Add 3 GSI stations marked as a healer bolster, a dps bolster, and a tank bolster. These change the bolster effect that's automatically applied upon entering the tactical into custom options built around the role (which set of stats to put on the modifications) and add extra effects to support the role in some way (healer's damage dealt provides a small group heal, dps get small chance on hit for extra damage, tank gets a tank's shield generator stats applied (slightly less effective than the real thing) if they don't already have a shield equipped along with also getting a small increase to threat generation and they automatically extend a guard effect (weaker than a tank's normal guard) to 3 nearest allies). Or maybe skip the idea of having stations and just have group finder choose a role and apply the appropriate version of bolster on you automatically? Either way, groups that don't fit the "ideal" group formation can have someone fill in as a pseudo-healer or a pseudo-tank through these special bolster effects to help get the group through any rough encounters they might have.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho

[branmakmuffin]

I have several friends who aren't good at games and who would like to play with me, but I'm never near their level.

If you were that good of a friend, you'd start a new character and dedicate it to leveling with them rather than simply zerging yet another character to cap.

[Kalfear]

Long title for a problem that would be awesome .

 

Its called Mentoring and has been suggested often since DAY ONE of thos web site forums opened.

 

EA knows people want this option,

EA knows people been asking for it since day 1

EA has never explained why its not in game

 

You would be amazed how many issues still out there today were suggested in mass long long long before this game even went Closed beta (and they most definitely were suggested in closed beta)

 

Wish it was in game

should be a standard item in ALL MMORPGs now a days

 

but EA has never responded about the topic even once

[theUndead]

Its called Mentoring and has been suggested often since DAY ONE of thos web site forums opened.

 

EA knows people want this option,

EA knows people been asking for it since day 1

EA has never explained why its not in game

 

You would be amazed how many issues still out there today were suggested in mass long long long before this game even went Closed beta (and they most definitely were suggested in closed beta)

 

Wish it was in game

should be a standard item in ALL MMORPGs now a days

 

but EA has never responded about the topic even once

 

I usually agree with you on almost everything, but on this most definitely not. Mentoring as you put it, is not a staple in every game. But I have seen level scaling which is entirely different. I also have to echo the words of a previous poster.

 

It would seem, that the devs really struggle with bolster as it never works or scales correctly, now one could argue it is negligence on the part of the programmers, but I honestly believe it has something to do with the engine and one of the reasons why mentoring as you put it will never happen.

 

I might also remind you that not every topic EA needs or has to respond to.

[Kalfear]

I usually agree with you on almost everything, but on this most definitely not. Mentoring as you put it, is not a staple in every game. But I have seen level scaling which is entirely different. I also have to echo the words of a previous poster.

 

It would seem, that the devs really struggle with bolster as it never works or scales correctly, now one could argue it is negligence on the part of the programmers, but I honestly believe it has something to do with the engine and one of the reasons why mentoring as you put it will never happen.

 

I might also remind you that not every topic EA needs or has to respond to.

 

said should be a staple, not is

 

But it should be, I first encounterd it myself in EQ2 and it was freaking amazing truth be told

 

You would mentor a lower level character in group (had to be over 5 levels lower then you) and that would lower you to their level but allow you to keep all your abilities and skills (basically reverse bolster where your skills and abilities were lowered to the high end of that level range),

 

Plus mentored player would receive a small xp bonus while mentored

 

I LOVED IT personally as could group with any level guildie and help them out with out feeling so uber powered your bored (and also not draining normal xp from them)

 

I honestly see no downside to the concept and think is SHOULD BE a staple in every MMORPG out there.

 

Every game has something amazing in it and I would like to see devs pick and choose those for a change

 

EQ2 was mentoring and Guild XP/Leveling system (was amazing as you went up in levels new dungeons opened to guild members only (group content) for you to do as a guild, LOVED IT)

 

DAoC had RVR (seiges, Relics, ect) and Darkness Falls (area that you unlocked to your realm by capturing and owning over 50% of the worlds keeps) and a kick arse crafting system. Also had the best leveling arc I've seen thus far in MMORPGs. Not ultra easy like SW:TOR but not insanely long like EQ.

 

Rift has Public Grouping (Rifts) and a kick arse class system (though its less appealing now that its been massively dumbed down. (At start was really interesting designing your sub classes you took)

 

SWG, UO, EQ2, DAoC, Rift, SW:TOR all have really strong design points for housing/stronghold/dimensions

 

EQ really set the bar for expansions and how to maintain longevity in a game through them

 

SW:TOR has its individual class storylines, and playable areas (at start)

 

WOW set the bar for promotion/marketting, how to sell a MMORPG to the masses. No one comes close to them in selling their product.

 

Point is imo these should ALL be staples of MMORPGs going forward.

You take was has worked excellently and then add in your own twists and designs around the concepts that have been home runs. As technology advances they will have to be adjusted, so no worries about the genre going stale because its just concepts, not stagnant design.

 

Hope that makes it more clear

 

I really do beleive every MMORPG shoudl have some kind of mentoring system in place to promote players ability to play with each other, regardless of level difference.

 

PS: Plus I like allot of the old world heroics when I was at level. But going back now makes them so freaking boring and its a cake walk.

 

But lets be clear, the mentoring has to be downwards, not bolstering upwards.

The high level is going down to lower level setting,

not lower level being bolstered upwards.

[theUndead]

said should be a staple, not is

 

But it should be, I first encounterd it myself in EQ2 and it was freaking amazing truth be told

 

You would mentor a lower level character in group (had to be over 5 levels lower then you) and that would lower you to their level but allow you to keep all your abilities and skills (basically reverse bolster where your skills and abilities were lowered to the high end of that level range),

 

Plus mentored player would receive a small xp bonus while mentored

 

I LOVED IT personally as could group with any level guildie and help them out with out feeling so uber powered your bored (and also not draining normal xp from them)

 

I honestly see no downside to the concept and think is SHOULD BE a staple in every MMORPG out there.

 

Every game has something amazing in it and I would like to see devs pick and choose those for a change

 

EQ2 was mentoring and Guild XP/Leveling system (was amazing as you went up in levels new dungeons opened to guild members only (group content) for you to do as a guild, LOVED IT)

 

DAoC had RVR (seiges, Relics, ect) and Darkness Falls (area that you unlocked to your realm by capturing and owning over 50% of the worlds keeps) and a kick arse crafting system. Also had the best leveling arc I've seen thus far in MMORPGs. Not ultra easy like SW:TOR but not insanely long like EQ.

 

Rift has Public Grouping (Rifts) and a kick arse class system (though its less appealing now that its been massively dumbed down. (At start was really interesting designing your sub classes you took)

 

SWG, UO, EQ2, DAoC, Rift, SW:TOR all have really strong design points for housing/stronghold/dimensions

 

EQ really set the bar for expansions and how to maintain longevity in a game through them

 

SW:TOR has its individual class storylines, and playable areas (at start)

 

WOW set the bar for promotion/marketting, how to sell a MMORPG to the masses. No one comes close to them in selling their product.

 

Point is imo these should ALL be staples of MMORPGs going forward.

You take was has worked excellently and then add in your own twists and designs around the concepts that have been home runs. As technology advances they will have to be adjusted, so no worries about the genre going stale because its just concepts, not stagnant design.

 

Hope that makes it more clear

 

I really do beleive every MMORPG shoudl have some kind of mentoring system in place to promote players ability to play with each other, regardless of level difference.

 

PS: Plus I like allot of the old world heroics when I was at level. But going back now makes them so freaking boring and its a cake walk.

 

But lets be clear, the mentoring has to be downwards, not bolstering upwards.

The high level is going down to lower level setting,

not lower level being bolstered upwards.

 

Yes indeed your point of view makes more sense. I will say, that I could potentially see the gain in some sort of system that encourages high levels to take on low levels. However, as I mentioned while the design for it is most definitely there and your examples of games that do it and could run it are sound, I feel this game can't do it.

 

Now look I am not trying to be just a hater, but I see it from a practical point of view. The purpose of bolster as I am sure you know is to balance out stats so they are all equal to that of a max level player. Such is the case for WZ. The problem comes when people wear specific items of gear that do not scale correctly and negatively affect bolster to the point that it does not function correctly for said player.

 

That's why I feel that even a mentoring system that scales downwards, it would only work after bolster has been tweaked to work correctly, because if the devs struggle with bolster, I worry about different systems involving xp.

 

Yet saying all of that, if by some chance they fixed it all and it worked, then good I am happy for those who will use it. But I personally wouldn't and would not encourage others to do so, nothing personal but I feel the game is better learn't on ones own.