Shout-Out to Maras who PVP

[Ridickilis]

No, all white damage for marauders runs off melee accuracy. The only move that a carnage marauder has with 100%+ accuracy is devastating blast. The reason for this is that it runs off force/tech accuracy, which is baseline 10% higher than melee/ranged.

 

You sure about that?

 

This conflicts with other posts I've read by those who study combat logs (in the pve operations forum and gear advice threads) who say that the only melee/ranged attack that uses the 90% accuracy is your one basic, resource building, attack. All other white damaging attacks (such as massacre/leap/ravage/obliterate/sunder/etc) use the "special melee" attack accuracy, which is the same as your force/tech accuracy.

 

If not, what is a special melee attack and why do I have an accuracy rating for such on my character sheet?

[L-RANDLE]

You sure about that?

 

This conflicts with other posts I've read by those who study combat logs (in the pve operations forum and gear advice threads) who say that the only melee/ranged attack that uses the 90% accuracy is your one basic, resource building, attack. All other white damaging attacks (such as massacre/leap/ravage/obliterate/sunder/etc) use the "special melee" attack accuracy, which is the same as your force/tech accuracy.

 

If not, what is a special melee attack and why do I have an accuracy rating for such on my character sheet?

 

Ta-da...

 

Ty Riddie!

[Evanouss]

Those are both random pugs, which I solo queued for. The lowbie match had no healers. The level 60 match had two operative healers, but keep in mind that my entire team (including a vanguard and guardian dps) had access to those same healers yet did not manage to match my kills or my 0 deaths. That is not to say that I am the best mara there is, but rather that the class can perform very well in capable hands.

 

Lets see one where your team, as a whole , is full of bads and no healer/support and you still top the charts. Because i have done and have seen good "fotm" classes do really well even on bad teams with little or no support. Your lowbie team completely dominated a horrible team which allowed you to go hog wild. Now , don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're not a good or even great mara/sent.

 

however, to say that it is simply a L2P issue is missing the mark. For some it might be, but over all it's not. Sent/Mara is not nearly as equipped to deal with all the controlling effects out there as sin/jugg/PT/sorc...hell even merc/sinper/Op have sustained ways to deal with being controlled. Mara/sent need a boost, not a huge boost but something in the form of a non utility root break/sustainted root/slow immunity...Hell id even take moving the force cloak root break to masterfull or skillfull as well as Predation root break.. Also for the love of pete would they just get rid of leg slash and give us crippling throw with a root or slow please, utilitied of course.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Evanouss

[Nekrall]

Yes, BUT, there are two classifications of "melee accuracy", and there only there, you shall find the master.

 

Regards,

Shonuff

 

No, there are not two classifications. Now you're just making yourself look worse.

 

If you mean off-hand accuracy, cool, that's way lower than 91% even.

[Ridickilis]

No, there are not two classifications.

 

There is. If you hover over your melee accuracy on your character sheet it breaks it down into two different melee accuracy ratings, one at 91 (basic) and one at 101 (special).

Edited January 23, 2015 by Ridickilis

[L-RANDLE]

No, there are not two classifications. Now you're just making yourself look worse.

 

If you mean off-hand accuracy, cool, that's way lower than 91% even.

 

*sigh

 

This is becoming painful. I expect more from the "best Mara on PoT5".

 

You sure about that?

 

This conflicts with other posts I've read by those who study combat logs (in the pve operations forum and gear advice threads) who say that the only melee/ranged attack that uses the 90% accuracy is your one basic, resource building, attack. All other white damaging attacks (such as massacre/leap/ravage/obliterate/sunder/etc) use the "special melee" attack accuracy, which is the same as your force/tech accuracy.

 

If not, what is a special melee attack and why do I have an accuracy rating for such on my character sheet?

 

Now with this knowledge your training is complete.

 

 

and my game knowledge got questioned? Wow..

 

[L-RANDLE]

Anyway, on a side note for those that don't know.

 

As Riddie said, only spammy basic resource attack has a base accuracy of 91%. We know this, not just by parse observations, but the actual coding of the attack, in the "effects details". "Isabilityspecial=1". If that is present then you have a base 100%+1%(companion) Accuracy on said attack.

 

Put your mouse pointer on your melee accuracy number, it will then show you that all main hand special attack accuracy is 100%. So worst case, on bread and butter attacks, on AVERAGE, miss 9 times out of every 100 attack rolls. Again, worst case.

 

What this means is that your likelihood to miss is moot due to that factor alone unless you are debuffed, or someone has a Defense Rating increase active. Those things are why people "miss", the difference between 91% and 100% is moot by comparison. And they are clothies, with lower armor rating. There needs to be balance somewhere.

[Nekrall]

Anyway, on a side note for those that don't know.

 

As Riddie said, only spammy basic resource attack has a base accuracy of 91%. We know this, not just by parse observations, but the actual coding of the attack, in the "effects details". "Isabilityspecial=1". If that is present then you have a base 100%+1%(companion) Accuracy on said attack.

 

Put your mouse pointer on your melee accuracy number, it will then show you that all main hand special attack accuracy is 100%. So worst case, on bread and butter attacks, on AVERAGE, miss 9 times out of every 100 attack rolls. Again, worst case.

 

What this means is that your likelihood to miss is moot due to that factor alone unless you are debuffed, or someone has a Defense Rating increase active. Those things are why people "miss", the difference between 91% and 100% is moot by comparison. And they are clothies, with lower armor rating. There needs to be balance somewhere.

 

I'll check this out when I get home. Was this an addition to 3.0? Because if not, then the miniscule amount of accuracy gear most maras ran with would completely push defense off the table.

 

Off hand accuracy still got dumped on by the change. And 4%/9% chance to parry is still not something I would like to have up in the air. Too many parrys on executes, massacre procs, etc.

[Foambreaker]

I've always been that it might end so well everything it is no longer. Maras had anyway and no one wanted to ask but you can't beat at the very end, also for Juggs.

 

^

 

What he said, whatever he said

[L-RANDLE]

I'll check this out when I get home. Was this an addition to 3.0? Because if not, then the miniscule amount of accuracy gear most maras ran with would completely push defense off the table.

 

Off hand accuracy still got dumped on by the change. And 4%/9% chance to parry is still not something I would like to have up in the air. Too many parrys on executes, massacre procs, etc.

 

It's always been like that. The only reason why Carnies were higher was because of spec and stance, but realistically, the add didn't "matter" due to this factor.

 

Besides that, any of the specs for this AC is built around dealing critical damage on Force based attacks:

Bleeds, Scream(pre 3.0)/DevBlast(post3.0), Smash

 

None subjected to accuracy adds or native defense rating. Realistically, with no accuracy adds, no debuffs, or Defense Rating increases Maras probably operate close to 96-97% hit rates on all attacks(Force+Weapons).

 

As for offhand, it follows the same notion. OH accuracy HAS to be somewhat low to keep the game balanced. It goes back to the sledgehammer, versus hammer analogy. The tooltips for Maras have plenty powerful, insta attacks. If the OH hit more than 50% of the time, we could drop people in 3-4 globals(which I know can happen anyway, but that's for another day). Now, as the spec was previously, OH accuracy on special attacks was already kinda low, a coin flip, even adding 10% still made it a "coin flip". Like the difference between 50/50 or 60/40. Of 68% versus 78% (which is what I think the delta would be now). It's not as drastic a change as it might seem on the outside...

 

 

PS: 100% serious here. I'm glad the banter, and general trolling has gotten us somewhere. I want to reiterate, I k.ow Maras have issues, but really it's a tweak in DFCD. If you make them any more mobile than they already are, your just making them into a Jugg/Sin/PT that can facetank just about anything.

[Nekrall]

It's always been like that. The only reason why Carnies were higher was because of spec and stance, but realistically, the add didn't "matter" due to this factor.

 

Besides that, any of the specs for this AC is built around dealing critical damage on Force based attacks:

Bleeds, Scream(pre 3.0)/DevBlast(post3.0), Smash

 

None subjected to accuracy adds or native defense rating. Realistically, with no accuracy adds, no debuffs, or Defense Rating increases Maras probably operate close to 96-97% hit rates on all attacks(Force+Weapons).

 

As for offhand, it follows the same notion. OH accuracy HAS to be somewhat low to keep the game balanced. It goes back to the sledgehammer, versus hammer analogy. The tooltips for Maras have plenty powerful, insta attacks. If the OH hit more than 50% of the time, we could drop people in 3-4 globals(which I know can happen anyway, but that's for another day). Now, as the spec was previously, OH accuracy on special attacks was already kinda low, a coin flip, even adding 10% still made it a "coin flip". Like the difference between 50/50 or 60/40. Of 68% versus 78% (which is what I think the delta would be now). It's not as drastic a change as it might seem on the outside...

 

 

PS: 100% serious here. I'm glad the banter, and general trolling has gotten us somewhere. I want to reiterate, I k.ow Maras have issues, but really it's a tweak in DFCD. If you make them any more mobile than they already are, your just making them into a Jugg/Sin/PT that can facetank just about anything.

 

Yeah, I learned something new man. That is such a counter intuitive idea. Your melee accuracy is 91%, but for all intents and purposes it's 101%. Accuracy should just be rolled into one stat, not like auto attacks matter anyway.

 

So, if you put a carnage mara at 95% melee, you're effectively bypassing the standard defense chance of all non tanks completely, except inquisitors.

 

Is there data on which attacks this affects? Or is it everything except the auto attack? Not sure if ravage would go by that accuracy.

 

Still, hopefully some mobility concerns are addressed. I'm going by the idea that bioware just threw everything in a pile for this xpac. Giving every class tons of roots, tons of mobility options, and cc immunity. It's to the point of being ridiculous. Most people see an ability like PT hydraulics as a very heavy handed change. Not sure if maras will get something similar, but it looks like they're going to take pred off the fury system and make it pretty much exactly like hydraulics is currently.

 

Defensive cooldowns are another topic entirely. Hopefully something is done to fix dying rage.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Nekrall

[L-RANDLE]

Yeah, I learned something new man. That is such a counter intuitive idea. Your melee accuracy is 91%, but for all intents and purposes it's 101%. Accuracy should just be rolled into one stat, not like auto attacks matter anyway.

 

So, if you put a carnage mara at 95% melee, you're effectively bypassing the standard defense chance of all non tanks completely, except inquisitors.

 

Is there data on which attacks this affects? Or is it everything except the auto attack? Not sure if ravage would go by that accuracy.

 

Still, hopefully some mobility concerns are addressed. I'm going by the idea that bioware just threw everything in a pile for this xpac. Giving every class tons of roots, tons of mobility options, and cc immunity. It's to the point of being ridiculous. Most people see an ability like PT hydraulics as a very heavy handed change. Not sure if maras will get something similar, but it looks like they're going to take pred off the fury system and make it pretty much exactly like hydraulics is currently.

 

Defensive cooldowns are another topic entirely. Hopefully something is done to fix dying rage.

 

Torhead. Pick a specific attack, and drill down of "effect details. Then check to see if the code "isabilityspecial" code line.

 

This is one of the reasons why Maras didn't need accuracy from gear. It ultimately had very little to do with viability.

[Nekrall]

Fresh one from solo q

 

http://i.imgur.com/jkq6Dbm.jpg?1

[ElcorHamlet]

Fresh one from solo q

 

http://i.imgur.com/jkq6Dbm.jpg?1

 

you have a very strange key layout

[Arkerus]

I remember when we all posted after the class changes came out:

 

Bioware, this won't work. We will be kited by range, don't have any great damage options and we have little to no defense.

 

I'm not even saying Bioware should have done anything as its their game and they thought it would work out. In this case, however, the community was right.

[L-RANDLE]

I remember when we all posted after the class changes came out:

 

Bioware, this won't work. We will be kited by range, don't have any great damage options and we have little to no defense.

 

I'm not even saying Bioware should have done anything as its their game and they thought it would work out. In this case, however, the community was right.

 

They did do some though. Energy management is a bit better, and it's a good thing that the two other specs can talent things like the pred/camo perks without spending a TON of points in Carnie.

 

I guess my issue is with specs having weaknesses or not. When you start handing out blanket immunities and leave certain specs out, that's a problem. That's why I am a proponent of changing UDR.

 

Remove the health penalty so it acts like a "damage immunity" like it did prior.

Add a proc to increase crit rating, or give blanket immunity if activated when under 20-30%.

 

After that, test it to see and adjust accordingly.

Edited January 23, 2015 by L-RANDLE