So, what's with the Jedi Revanites?

[Kyrrant]

One of the weird bits I recently realized about the Revanite stuff is that, while we get reasons for why Imperial and Republic soldiers joined the Revanites, based on a few convo's with ones, and for Sith to go Revanite, thanks to the whole quest chain on Dromund Kaas... there's not much explanation for the Jedi that join the Revanites.

 

The only Jedi Revanite we meet that we talk with is the ******e Jedi Commander at the end of the Korriban instance, who is obviously, at best, a small push away from becoming a full on Sith.

 

But we don't see how the Jedi justify abandoning/betraying the Republic and the Jedi Order, hiding their true intentions, and assisting what we now know to be a fully Dark Side Revan, working alongside Sith.

 

Now, granted, there's an obvious explanation: They were falling to the Dark Side, they just took a detour to Revanite land instead of jumping all the way to the Sith side of the equation. I suppose a mostly Light Side Jedi might still help out the Revanites out of a sense of pragmatism, but its a shame we don't get to see any of that, because... it just seems so out of character for a Jedi that's not falling to the Dark Side.

 

I mean, Sith are known for being traitorous, backstabbing bastards. They take pride in it. But it just seems like the Jedi are there so that it's clearly a force made up of both sides, and not mostly Imperial...

[jovianus]

Bioware magical handwaving basically. The same way the Revanites went from a fringe cult in the jungles of Dromund Kaas to a galactic conspiracy penetrating the highest levels of the Empire and the Republic in a few months.

 

It's best just not to think about it very hard, it will only lead to confusion and disappointment.

Edited January 20, 2015 by jovianus

[Jandi]

Bioware magical handwaving basically. The same way the Revanites went from a fringe cult in the jungles of Dromund Kaas to a galactic conspiracy penetrating the highest levels of the Empire and the Republic in a few months.

 

Uhh the space between when you are on DK and when you finish Makeb is actually years... with the war reigniting and all around chaos everywhere, not to mention most of the dark council dying in that timeframe as well.

 

It's best just not to think about it very hard, it will only lead to confusion and disappointment.

 

Nah, it's far better to ignore facts and simply bash on stuff.

[jovianus]

Uhh the space between when you are on DK and when you finish Makeb is actually years... with the war reigniting and all around chaos everywhere, not to mention most of the dark council dying in that timeframe as well.

 

Revan explicitly states that he initially ignored the Revanites, so he couldn't have even started recruiting/reforming the cult until some time after the Foundry. And either way we still have the fact that, starting with a fringe bunch of lunatics on DK, and with "Revan' being nothing more than a footnote in the history books to the overwhelming majority of the galaxy, he manages to sway significant numbers of people at all levels of the Empire and Republic to follow him in some insane plan to resurrect and then for really real kill the Sith Emperor and destroy the Empire and the Republic all in the name of leading the galaxy to sunshine and rainbows forever. All in the space of, at best, a couple of years. And in complete secret no less.

 

Yeah...sounds perfectly reasonable and carefully thought out to me.

Edited January 20, 2015 by jovianus

[Darth_Wicked]

Revan explicitly states that he initially ignored the Revanites, so he couldn't have even started recruiting/reforming the cult until some time after the Foundry. And either way we still have the fact that, starting with a fringe bunch of lunatics on DK, and with "Revan' being nothing more than a footnote in the history books to the overwhelming majority of the galaxy, he manages to sway significant numbers of people at all levels of the Empire and Republic to follow him in some insane plan to resurrect and then for really real kill the Sith Emperor and destroy the Empire and the Republic all in the name of leading the galaxy to sunshine and rainbows forever. All in the space of, at best, a couple of years. And in complete secret no less.

 

Yeah...sounds perfectly reasonable and carefully thought out to me.

 

I'm not even sure most of his followers were fully aware that was his plan. Judging from Milenec and Ivress, I didn't get that vibe at any rate.

 

Plus, the ones on Yavin 4 were so faceless we have no idea what they thought. Only thing we have going is Darkspanner's codex entry but then again, she was the Master.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[DarthDymond]

One of the weird bits I recently realized about the Revanite stuff is that, while we get reasons for why Imperial and Republic soldiers joined the Revanites, based on a few convo's with ones, and for Sith to go Revanite, thanks to the whole quest chain on Dromund Kaas... there's not much explanation for the Jedi that join the Revanites.

 

The only Jedi Revanite we meet that we talk with is the ******e Jedi Commander at the end of the Korriban instance, who is obviously, at best, a small push away from becoming a full on Sith.

 

But we don't see how the Jedi justify abandoning/betraying the Republic and the Jedi Order, hiding their true intentions, and assisting what we now know to be a fully Dark Side Revan, working alongside Sith.

 

Now, granted, there's an obvious explanation: They were falling to the Dark Side, they just took a detour to Revanite land instead of jumping all the way to the Sith side of the equation. I suppose a mostly Light Side Jedi might still help out the Revanites out of a sense of pragmatism, but its a shame we don't get to see any of that, because... it just seems so out of character for a Jedi that's not falling to the Dark Side.

 

I mean, Sith are known for being traitorous, backstabbing bastards. They take pride in it. But it just seems like the Jedi are there so that it's clearly a force made up of both sides, and not mostly Imperial...

Revan's super!charisma is a fairly consistent character trait, and his ability to sway Jedi to his side in particular. (Your millage may vary on whether it's a believable character trait, though.)

 

In KotOR the whole Sith Order you're fighting is made up of Jedi who chose to follow Revan over the Jedi Order and whatever new recruits they could find/train over a few years. If he could tempt Jedi to declare themselves full-on Sith, then I can see him getting Jedi to believe they needed to take a third option between the Republic (which had largely turned its back on the Jedi after the Sacking of Coruscant) and the Empire - especially if he is sharing with them that stopping the Emperor is his ultimate goal.

 

On the Foundry, it's not clear how much the Jedi there are 'in' on his genocidal plans, but they are willingly fighting alongside an army of 'extermination droids' led by an assassin. My head!canon is that the survivors of that group form the core the Republic branch of the Revanites when he returns.

[jovianus]

In KotOR the whole Sith Order you're fighting is made up of Jedi who chose to follow Revan over the Jedi Order and whatever new recruits they could find/train over a few years. If he could tempt Jedi to declare themselves full-on Sith, then I can see him getting Jedi to believe they needed to take a third option between the Republic (which had largely turned its back on the Jedi after the Sacking of Coruscant) and the Empire - especially if he is sharing with them that stopping the Emperor is his ultimate goal.

 

While I'll grant that Revan is charismatic, it's important to keep the context of KotOR in mind. Revan didn't just go Sith and sway vast numbers of Jedi to his side with his winning smile and smoldering eyes. He started out, and drew followers, by going out to fight the Mandalorians who were burning the Republic, because the Jedi Council of the time was composed of morons who felt that the best course of action was to meditate really hard at the Mando's until they realized peace was the way.

 

And after he turned to the Dark Side I'm pretty sure it's explicitly said that he turned a lot of the Jedi to Sith by breaking them under the pervasive Dark Side energy at Malachor V.

 

No similar situation exists in the TOR time frame, and after the events of the Foundry I can't see a lot of Jedi being like, "A little genocide is a small price to pay to stop the Emperor." .

[Kyrrant]

Revan's super!charisma is a fairly consistent character trait, and his ability to sway Jedi to his side in particular. (Your millage may vary on whether it's a believable character trait, though.)

 

In KotOR the whole Sith Order you're fighting is made up of Jedi who chose to follow Revan over the Jedi Order and whatever new recruits they could find/train over a few years. If he could tempt Jedi to declare themselves full-on Sith, then I can see him getting Jedi to believe they needed to take a third option between the Republic (which had largely turned its back on the Jedi after the Sacking of Coruscant) and the Empire - especially if he is sharing with them that stopping the Emperor is his ultimate goal.

 

On the Foundry, it's not clear how much the Jedi there are 'in' on his genocidal plans, but they are willingly fighting alongside an army of 'extermination droids' led by an assassin. My head!canon is that the survivors of that group form the core the Republic branch of the Revanites when he returns.

 

...that last part... that I can easily believe.

 

The reason I struggle with teh comparison to KOTOR, though, is because there is this huge, obvious threat present during the Mandalorian Wars that pushed the Jedi into action against the council's wishes, and it wouldn't be impossible to get the Jedi there to take a few more steps down that path. No single dark action, just one step, after another, after another... and then you look up and you're no longer a Jedi anymore.

 

The Foundry explanation could do it, though. And it'd be helped by the Republic's announcement that the Emperor's dead (and thus no longer be hunted by the Republic). How many of those from the Foundry who knew Revan was dedicated to defeating the Emperor, hearing about how he's still alive, and needing to be dealt with... maybe they'll take a few more steps forward, no matter how much they dislike their supposed allies in the Empire...

 

It's a good point and could explain a bit. I do wish Bioware would, you know, put some sort of explanation or exploration into the game, of course...

[Darth_Wicked]

The expansion, as far as exposition is concerned, failed miserably IMO.

 

Earlier on, in another thread, I had considered the possibility that Revan would have made known to his followers of the threat the Emperor still represented, in addition to the fact both the Republic and Empire lied to them, when they claimed or inferred the Emperor was dead.

 

This kind of stuff is hardly hinted at or inferred throughout the expansion.

 

In fact, judging from Milenec and Ivress, one truly has to wonder if they ever knew what exactly they were fighting for. The stakes should be higher than ever but instead, at the first sight of trouble, they were far more eager to stab each other in the back; the urgency, given the situation, was nowhere to be seen or felt.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[DarthDymond]

Completely agree that the circumstances are different, but I'm not sure that the circumstances just after the Foundry are such that they'd make Jedi less likely to throw in with Revan. The Republic/Jedi tensions were still high after the Republic turned their back on the Jedi after the Great War, but many individual Jedi probably respected members of the Republic and vice versa (so he's offering a setup that can bring everyone back together under his banner), you had a looming threat with the Empire and the Emperor.

 

Revan, who footnote or not was remembered as the person who pretty much single-handedly saved the Republic, comes along and says he can kill the Emperor, can end the War, and can both save and bring peace to the Galaxy. He's got people inside the Empire already loyal to him, so his plan isn't outright extermination of the other side (which Jedi might be squeamish about), but a plan that could potentially bring both civilizations under a single banner - and (as an 'added bonus' that'll speak to the less scrupulous potential converts) will even put those who follow him in some pretty prime positions in the new order.

 

But at the end of the day, it's a cult of personality or a fledgling religion - a powerfully charismatic individual who has followers that earnestly believe he will save the world (or galaxy, in this case) so they're willing to lay down their lives and either disavow their old loyalties in favor of him or at least rationalize that his way is the way to honor the 'true' spirit of those loyalties (he's saving the Republic by bringing it to its knees... again).

[dcaleb]

Well, the JK story made it clear you can force persuade force sensitive people if you are powerful enough and the entire first chapter of the Consular story is devoted to stopping a magical plague that makes people turn evil. It is entirely possible some sort of mind altering force technique was involved. This would also help explain how his cult got so many new recruits in the Empire despite starting off as some losers hiding in a swamp.

[Kyrrant]

Well, the JK story made it clear you can force persuade force sensitive people if you are powerful enough and the entire first chapter of the Consular story is devoted to stopping a magical plague that makes people turn evil. It is entirely possible some sort of mind altering force technique was involved. This would also help explain how his cult got so many new recruits in the Empire despite starting off as some losers hiding in a swamp.

 

Ugh, it'd explain it, but it'd feel like a cheat. I'd rather avoid obscenely powerful force techniques as much as possible, especially if its never so much as hinted in the story proper.

[Darth_Wicked]

 

"The Force did it".

^^ There.

 

Ugh, it'd explain it, but it'd feel like a cheat. I'd rather avoid obscenely powerful force techniques as much as possible, especially if its never so much as hinted in the story proper.

 

That's because it is truth be told.

 

Again, as pointed out earlier, the whole trope as to how the Revanites became this ultra-powerful cult-like organization, possibly matching the likes of the GenoHaradan, Star Cabal or even the Shroud's network, is as believable as the Earth being flat.

 

Same with countless Jedi flocking to Revan's cause, just because.

 

At the time of the events of the original KotOR, the information and background were properly contextualized, and further more expanded by the time TSL was introduced. In this case though?

 

Not so much.

 

In the end, it had to happen to move the story along, not because there was an intrinsic raison d'être to the whole affair; in fact, Revan's involvement with his cult throughout the expansion -- and even prior to it -- feels as weightless as his presence throughout its duration.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Kyrrant]

After all's said and done, my thoughts on the whole Revanite arc is basically: The main plot sucked, but its good for the game.

 

Because, yeah, the Revanite plot is full of holes and weirdness and odd ideas not nearly fleshed out enough, but...

 

- We've gotten development on four entertaining, nuanced characters that can be used in future content.

- We got more character development out of Satele and Marr that make their central role in the faction stories stronger.

- There's a new villain that's a clear threat to both sides, but whose status and powers are nebulous and undefined enough that the writers can do just about anything they want with it.

- There's a strong precedent in-story for a cross-faction cease fire to deal with major threats, which are inevitable for out of story Budgetary reasons

- The experiment with single class stories was a success, something they might revisit in the future.

 

(Dear lord, the Satele/Marr double-act needs to come back)

 

Basically, there's a ton of fertile ground laid here for great things moving forward. So I can't hate the Revanite arc that much.

 

I just wish they... you know, explored it a bit more. Maybe we'll get some content on cleaning up the Revanites that does go into that, who knows?

[Darth_Wicked]

I just wish they... you know, explored it a bit more. Maybe we'll get some content on cleaning up the Revanites that does go into that, who knows?

 

To be honest, I think this game is pretty much done with the Revanites.

 

Going forward, I can imagine the game will try to focus on whoever is left from those closest to the Emperor, namely his Hand and perhaps the most hardcore of the Imperial Guard.

 

Also...

There was some stuff, kinda old, that centered on this insurrection led by Grand Moff Regus. The dialogues were there, but I have no idea if they ever recorded it, prior to the game's release.

 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[jovianus]

After all's said and done, my thoughts on the whole Revanite arc is basically: The main plot sucked, but its good for the game.

 

Because, yeah, the Revanite plot is full of holes and weirdness and odd ideas not nearly fleshed out enough, but...

 

- We've gotten development on four entertaining, nuanced characters that can be used in future content.

- We got more character development out of Satele and Marr that make their central role in the faction stories stronger.

- There's a new villain that's a clear threat to both sides, but whose status and powers are nebulous and undefined enough that the writers can do just about anything they want with it.

- There's a strong precedent in-story for a cross-faction cease fire to deal with major threats, which are inevitable for out of story Budgetary reasons

- The experiment with single class stories was a success, something they might revisit in the future.

 

(Dear lord, the Satele/Marr double-act needs to come back)

 

Basically, there's a ton of fertile ground laid here for great things moving forward. So I can't hate the Revanite arc that much.

 

I just wish they... you know, explored it a bit more. Maybe we'll get some content on cleaning up the Revanites that does go into that, who knows?

 

My whole thought process while going through it was, "You know what would have been awesome? The False Emperor expansion." I mean hell, you could even have kept most of the elements. Malgus arranges the assault on the Foundry for the explicit purpose of claiming it, so Rakata-tech supersoldiers works just fine. Need to bring back the Emperor? Okay, Malgus found something on Yavin that is allowing him to leech power from the dormant Emperor, but is in danger of awakening him. Voila, super-powered Malgus (for awesome end battle) and a reawakened Emperor.

 

And, no desperate handwaving and retconning about nutjobs in the bushes transforming into galaxy spanning army of conspirators in a couple of years. Malgus is a war hero of the Empire, the Emperor is absent and Dark Council scheming is screwing things up, there's his Imperial defectors. Republic side, you have the example of Havoc Squad, tired of a corrupt, cowardly Republic leaving them out to dry, why not turn to Malgus, skilled commander who offers order and authority and loyalty, while discarding the anti-alien racism and other negative aspects of the Empire, boom, Republic defectors.

 

But no, they have to try to milk fond memories of KotOR by flogging Revan's 300 years rotting corpse one more time. (we hope)

Edited January 21, 2015 by jovianus

[Ghisallo]

Why would a Jedi join Revan? Well first, at least as a Consular, more than once on a quest I encountered corrupt politicians taking bribes or trying to get slave collar tech, or those looking to betray the Republic's ideals and align with the Empire. If you are an idealist you could well look at these people and say "the Republic is Corrupt and incapable of upholding the ideals."

 

So along comes Revan. He survived against the Emperor how many times? He sees the Emperor and the Empire as the threat it is. It is a classic cult tactic. He has a fanatic's certainty and brings a singular sense of purpose. He has a plan. This sense of direction and purpose easily exploits an idealist who sees the Empire as "the enemy" but also may suspect that the Republic is an aging and corrupt bureaucracy that inevitably will fall to the Empire that, while evil, has a similarly singular sense of purpose enforced by the Emperor and his Hands.

 

Now if Revan had come along in a time of peace it likely would not have worked on as many as it did, especially the Jedi. It hasn't been a time of peace however. If you go back to the Sith's retaking of Korriban when Satele was but an apprentice we have been at war for decades.

 

So, to speak as a Revanite Jedi....

 

The Empire is wrong and the Republic is doomed by the weight of its own bureaucracy and corruption to be defeated by it. We have been at war for decades, the Republic and Empire will fight regardless so let them, hell help bring them together. While they fight each other they weaken each other and we can kill the Emperor? After the Emperor is gone the Empire will fall. When the Empire falls at the hands of our forces the people of the Republic will see what I see, that their leaders became fat and corrupt in their complacency. These leaders deceived them in order to maintain their personal power and engaged in petty politics in furtherance of this when they should have been engaged in protecting the people. They will embrace us and the Galaxy will know peace.

 

What did you do in this mindset as a Jedi? You let the Empire and Republic do what they would have done anyway, fight, and you helped to kill the Emperor. These are bad things?

 

Well of course it is... IF as a Jedi you know that Revan is going to arrange for the attack on Tython and slay fellow Jedi BUT cults are also heavily compartmentalized so it is more than possible that the Jedi were not entirely in the "know"

Edited January 21, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Yezzan]

All that is well and good but there is no link between Revan and the Jedi. The Revanites by virtue of their fanaticism would have follow Revan to their demise whether they were aware or not.

 

The 3.0 expansion should have developed how these people (imps, pubs, sith, jedi-not revanites) came to be so influenced by Revan to the extent that they were willing to die for his cause. There is no Causal link. Dark Council Members and Powerful Jedi Masters being swayed by a relic of the past?

Edited January 21, 2015 by Yezzan

[Ghisallo]

All that is well and good but there is no link between Revan and the Jedi. The Revanites by virtue of their fanaticism would have follow Revan to their demise whether they were aware or not.

 

The 3.0 expansion should have developed how these people (imps, pubs, sith, jedi-not revanites) came to be so influenced by Revan to the extent that they were willing to die for his cause. There is no Causal link. Dark Council Members and Powerful Jedi Masters being swayed by a relic of the past?

 

They do directly tell you about the Order of Revan as it exists in the Empire through a quest line. As for the Pub side it makes sense to be more... Mysterious. Here is why. On the Imp side there is no freedom of speech, belief or assembly. As such you will have laws against cults, spies trying to infiltrate them, informers calling the local garrison and dropping a dime etc.

 

From the in game codex

The secret society known as the Order of Revan is known only to its members and a few inquisitive outsiders. The society is believed to be several hundred strong, ranging from powerful and influential Sith Lords to military officers and alien slaves–low status is no barrier to entry, but personal power and fervor are everything. Some so-called Revanites devote their lives to the cult’s teachings and exist outside of mainstream Imperial society; others study and meet in secret while maintaining ordinary lives. The Order of Revan takes its name from an ancient Sith Lord–a fallen Jedi who used both the dark side and the light side of the Force during his lifetime. Revan drew strength from passion, as well as tranquility; took allies who were human and alien, weak and strong. Revanites seek to emulate Revan’s ways, seeing him as the greatest of all teachers."

 

On Imp side it even predates the coldwar by decades. Pub side it is a little more difficult to figure out. First as it has freedom of speech, belief and assembly you don't have informers, laws against cults etc so we would have no clue if the group existed or how long on Pub side. Also it doesn't take long to get impressive numbers. RL example Aum Shinrykio. In less than a decade they went from a Yoga class to a cult with an estimated 40k members world wide that committed a terrorist attack with Sarin on the Tokyo Subway.

 

The fact we do not have a time frame for the in game events does add a complication. How long does he spends with the Republic and on Tython (that has to be months tbh since they say he told ALL he knew about the Emperor and the Empire...being mind linked to the Emperor means QUITE a lot). Then how long is he on the Foundry... Before the Imp strike team...then how long between his escape and the attack on Korriban... There is obviously a lot of time though. Since he alludes to his plans when he mentions the Foundry in the reduxed Pub rescue mission, when he is on Tython he could actively be recruiting. As a matter of fact the Jedi being there makes MORE sense to me. He is on Tython for much of the time. He was the Emperor's prisoner. So he has direct access to recruit Jedi to his cause. Once you get your Jedi how hard is it for these Jedi to then recruit jaded soldiers with the respect Jedi have in the Republic?

[Leaveshill]

 

I mean, Sith are known for being traitorous, backstabbing bastards. They take pride in it. But it just seems like the Jedi are there so that it's clearly a force made up of both sides, and not mostly Imperial...

 

On this path; A lot of Jedi are turning to the Dark side. This happends all the time. Tyranus (Dooku), Vader, (Skywalker) from the movies, both Jedi (Amongst the very elite of Jedi as well). Revan and Malak was former jedi, both had a legion of Dark Jedi turning Sith under them.

Both SI and SW gets a former Jedi padawan as their apprentice, as well as the Agent having the posiblity to turn a Dark jedi into Sith at Taris.

On Tython, the JK defeats a former Jedi, now turned to the dark. This is happening everywhere, just as often as Sith betray eachother. Blindly trusting a Jedi is just as mad as blindly trusting a Sith. They're both religious, often zealous. When you admit to kill Zash as SI,(when holding your little speech before the fight on Corellia), he'll claim that you're as corrupt and that you're not even trying to cover it up, clearly showing what he thinks about the betrayal(killing your master is betrayal, after all).

Also, killing Skotia wasn't that far from Zash own downfall by Thanaton's hands, as the punishment for treason (murdering another Sith is in most cases deemed as treason; is death).

 

Jedi and Sith are both doubtfully the best allies in some ways, as it's a number of treasons from both. Zealous people, believing only in one thing (the Force, no matter which side), and finding it "difficult" to swallow that a lot of Jedi turn dark isn't needed. Jedi turn dark all the time, for power, for freedom, for knowledge, it's no telling what might turn them.

 

But yes, you have a point with the post. The republic should have a "clear" insight in the matter as well, getting feel their position etc.

[Kyrrant]

Jedi and Sith are both doubtfully the best allies in some ways, as it's a number of treasons from both. Zealous people, believing only in one thing (the Force, no matter which side), and finding it "difficult" to swallow that a lot of Jedi turn dark isn't needed. Jedi turn dark all the time, for power, for freedom, for knowledge, it's no telling what might turn them.

 

But yes, you have a point with the post. The republic should have a "clear" insight in the matter as well, getting feel their position etc.

 

Here's the thing, though: One motivation won't work for every single Jedi and every single Sith. That's what was interesting about the Revanite quest chain on Dromund Kaas, they actually provide a few reasons why different people joined the same banner.

 

Sure, Jedi falling could do it. But knowing reasons for why non-fallen Jedi are getting involved would be interesting too. I like to think that people aren't easily defined, after all .

[light_senshi]

No similar situation exists in the TOR time frame, and after the events of the Foundry I can't see a lot of Jedi being like, "A little genocide is a small price to pay to stop the Emperor." .

 

*snip* I'll have to disagree very strongly with this statement. What's going on in the galaxy is a full fledged intergalactic war. Virtually every planet you visit after you leave the capital world has some sort of armed conflict taking place. The entirety of chapters one, two, and three all happen in war zones (even Alderaan is caught up in this armed conflict).

[Leaveshill]

Here's the thing, though: One motivation won't work for every single Jedi and every single Sith. That's what was interesting about the Revanite quest chain on Dromund Kaas, they actually provide a few reasons why different people joined the same banner.

 

Sure, Jedi falling could do it. But knowing reasons for why non-fallen Jedi are getting involved would be interesting too. I like to think that people aren't easily defined, after all .

 

Yeah I do agree on the fact that you should have a quest-line about the Revanites as well. As I stated in the end, after all it's a bit dull to have no insight in why lots of your own turn rogue. It's easy to imagine, but it's still nice to see it "live"; having quests with it etc.

[Jandi]

Any reason they might join up simply vanishes when Marr and Satele show up. Before, it's conceivable that they join because both sides are not taking the threat seriously, but after? Yavin makes 0 sense.

 

Add the fact that Revan already failed then tried to commit genocide on the Sith so imps joining makes even LESS sense, and no Jedi would ever condone his actions.

 

The only reasonable alternative is mind control, which is the laziest and dumbest cop-out right up there with random "insanity". It's amateur writing, barely above fan-fiction in terms of depth and imagination.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Jandi

[Kyrrant]

Any reason they might join up simply vanishes when Marr and Satele show up. Before, it's conceivable that they join because both sides are not taking the threat seriously, but after? Yavin makes 0 sense.

 

Maybe... but maybe not.

 

I can see three arguments for why a LS Revanite Jedi would stay with the Revanites on Yavin.

 

Option 1: "Wait, Satele's here?"

 

They might not know who the attacking force is. Satele stays off the front line, after all, and we mostly just see soldiers and a handful of Jedi running around. The Revanites could spin this as being... any number of possibilities, really, via internal propoganda.

 

Option 2: "...its too late to change back now."

 

This would be a step towards falling to the Dark Side... but also a very human (for lack of a better word) thing to do, being afraid of the consequences, so you double-down instead, and hope that you can make it through to the other side.

 

I mean, what they did IS treason. They won't see too much mercy facing treason charges during a war, something that Revanite internal proganda would easily reinforce.

 

Option 3: "...they're helping the Sith? This is just insanity..."

 

Yes, hypocracy in spades... but that's also a very human thing. Jedi helping the Sith could easily be seen as the Jedi falling under the influence of the Dark Side, and maybe the corruption of the Republic had infested the Jedi Order as well. All that war, all that darkness... its not like Satele's lineage is immune to falling, after all.

 

Just some thoughts on that part.