Beniboybling Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Plagueis was obsessed with corporeal immortality. Not spiritual. He didn't even really regard the existence of spirits and kind of scoffed at the idea. It's not that surprising he never achieved spiritual form and achieving spiritual form isn't a display of power as we've seen lesser spirits do it as well. Plagueis had a very "Scientific" view of the force. Also I thought spirits aren't being included as they kind of break certain rules and become more entity than sith? If this is the case shouldn't we be focusing on Vitiate in a mortal frame? I also believe the most durable thing about Plagueis is the fact that Sidious WAS trying to kill him asap with his lightning and was having trouble doing so. Infact, after releasing a force storm on him, Plagueis was still able to rise which is when Sidious began to force choke him. Even then, even with that, the main reason he died was a lack of his breathing apparatus which is what Sidious made sure to destroy. His ability of withstanding force attacks is BEYOND impressive.Yeah did I not make that clear? I'm not faulting Plagueis at all for failing to achieve immortality of this kind, but it remains a demonstration of the Sith Emperor's powers of self control nonetheless. And again, I'm not concerned about the feats he actually performed, but merely his ability to achieve that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 We've seen lesser sith lords do the same. It's really not that impressive. At the end of the page I made a rebuttal to this if you don't mind looking back and checking. Such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Check my last page. And Caedus never changed the very environment with his power of the dark side. Vitiate, Plagueis, and Palpatine all have. Not Caedus. And Caedus hasn't withstood the level of force powers leveled at him the way Plagueis has. Not from an opponent like Sidious and Sidious was doing everything to KILL him as for his raw power feats? That was impressive. TPM Sidous, who is massively weaker then Pre-ANH Sidious, who had his lightning partially absorbed by galen who < Star Killer < Vader < Caedus. Caedus wasnt as "dark" as any of those characters either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Plagueis was obsessed with corporeal immortality. Not spiritual. He didn't even really regard the existence of spirits and kind of scoffed at the idea. It's not that surprising he never achieved spiritual form and achieving spiritual form isn't a display of power as we've seen lesser spirits do it as well. Plagueis had a very "Scientific" view of the force. Also I thought spirits aren't being included as they kind of break certain rules and become more entity than sith? If this is the case shouldn't we be focusing on Vitiate in a mortal frame? I also believe the most durable thing about Plagueis is the fact that Sidious WAS trying to kill him asap with his lightning and was having trouble doing so. Infact, after releasing a force storm on him, Plagueis was still able to rise which is when Sidious began to force choke him. Even then, even with that, the main reason he died was a lack of his breathing apparatus which is what Sidious made sure to destroy. His ability of withstanding force attacks is BEYOND impressive. I had considered the damage Plagueis suffered when Plapatine was killing him, but not to the extent that you showed here. I'm trying to figure out why. I feel so ashamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Nah, all evidence suggests Vitiate is far less powerful in spirit form then an actual body.Would you like to provide this evidence? Serious request. Edited January 21, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Such as? Such as many of the sith lords you consume as Kallig in the sorcerer story? Not all of them are special are important sith lords. Some are relatively nameless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I had considered the damage Plagueis suffered when Plapatine was killing him, but not to the extent that you showed here. I'm trying to figure out why. I feel so ashamed. I was on the "Vitiate wins 4th" boat but now I'm leaning towards plagueis. Especially since scouring the book Sidious calls himself "Your equally strong apprentice." so even Sidious, who is in the process of killing him, admits at that point in time Plagueis is his EQUAL. Edited January 21, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Would you like to provide this evidence? Serious request. Marr, Shan, Wrath, Spirit Revan, and everyone else state that if Revan successfully resurrects Vitiate, he will be far more powerful then in Spirit form. Shan and Marr specifically state this at the end (one for Republic, one for Empire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I was on the "Vitiate wins 4th" boat but now I'm leaning towards plagueis. All part of my plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Such as many of the sith lords you consume as Kallig in the sorcerer story? Not all of them are special are important sith lords. Some are relatively nameless. There are a lot of Sith spirits. Heck, the Dark Temple is full of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 There are a lot of Sith spirits. Heck, the Dark Temple is full of them. That too. I forgot the dark temple. Many of them are REALLY nameless. Surviving after death isn't a major feat for most Sith. It seems relatively easy to linger on as a ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 That too. I forgot the dark temple. Many of them are REALLY nameless. Surviving after death isn't a major feat for most Sith. It seems relatively easy to linger on as a ghost. The ghosts there are actually quite powerful, though apparently no match for welded doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Such as many of the sith lords you consume as Kallig in the sorcerer story? Not all of them are special are important sith lords. Some are relatively nameless.While true, I don't think they retained many of their abilities, indeed few were able to even act on physical world. The Sith Emperor however was capable of performing complex ritual, and traversing the galaxy. I think this ability to effect the environment in more profound ways speaks to a much greater level of self-mastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Marr, Shan, Wrath, Spirit Revan, and everyone else state that if Revan successfully resurrects Vitiate, he will be far more powerful then in Spirit form. Shan and Marr specifically state this at the end (one for Republic, one for Empire).Fair point, that might require a reassessment of his Force Drain abilities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 TK is by far the most important Alter power, why are we not discussing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 While true, I don't think they retained many of their abilities, indeed few were able to even act on physical world. The Sith Emperor however was capable of performing complex ritual, and traversing the galaxy. I think this ability to effect the environment in more profound ways speaks to a much greater level of self-mastery. So was Kallig. I don't think he has anything on Plagueis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So was Kallig. I don't think he has anything on Plagueis. Nox is probably over Plagueis too. Unsure about Kallig, some sources suggest he is Tulak Hord level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Also a better one for you Control When Luke Fought Vader, he got to see Vader's Control limits, by calling "caedus" more powerful its safe to call Caedus's control Stronger.... Look at Vader's durability feats and compare them to Plaegus's. Vader wins.. and BOTH have been pushed to their limits before so this isnt a "limitation" thing Caedus was never pushed to his limits, yes he was injured but no injury was any where near fatal until he allowed it to be and turned back to the good side. While both Plageus and Vader have nearly died with their feats, and Vaders are better. With Luke calling Caedus better and Luke's knowledge of Vader's Limitations that means something. Sense: We have already called Caedus better here and this points heavily to his understanding of hte inner workings of the Force. Alter: Caedus has better accolades to his TK, Others have better accolades to their lightning. Both require power. Caedus is the only one that wasnt ALWAYS sith, and thus the only one not used to amping up his lightning. Of course he would use his lightning the same way he did prior to his fall. That doesnt mean he couldnt just as easily ramp it up to the others levels. TK on the other hand is used by sith and Jedi Alike. The Sith here have no excuse for why their TK accolades dont match Caedus's There is that better for you????I don't really think so, I don't see how Vader's endurance feats are better than Plagueis... I mean in a weakened state Plagueis was able to perform feats that outstrip Vader's capabilities at full fighting strength. I would appreciate specifics, if you are able to provide, concerning Caedus' lightning feats so we can confirm that possibility, however you do make a good point and it is one that I had not considered, requires further thought. I don't see what your referring to in regards to Caedus have superior telekinetic abilities however. Both Plagueis and Caedus were capable of generating powerful Force waves so I'm not sure I see what your getting at. Yes it is, because your applying your theories specifically, it makes it much easier to engage in proper debate. Edited January 21, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Fair point, that might require a reassessment of his Force Drain abilities... I highly doubt any of those characters have any real knowledge of what the Emperor is actually capable of aside from Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Nox is probably over Plagueis too. Unsure about Kallig, some sources suggest he is Tulak Hord level. Nox isn't stronger than Plagueis. There is zero evidence of that. Unless I am misunderstanding you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) So was Kallig. I don't think he has anything on Plagueis.Erm, all Kallig could do was TK. TK is by far the most important Alter power, why are we not discussing it?In regards to what?I highly doubt any of those characters have any real knowledge of what the Emperor is actually capable of aside from Revan.Authorial intentions Aurbere, the authors are trying to tell us something here, and nowhere do they drop any hints this characters are misinformed. Edited January 21, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Erm, all Kallig could do was TK. He could also appear in different parts of the galaxy as well. It doesn't matter. Want to argue how much Vitiate can do as a spirit? Then we need Exar Kun in this discussion. The contenders for 4th place keeps growing. Edited January 21, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Nox isn't stronger than Plagueis. There is zero evidence of that. Unless I am misunderstanding you. *glances at him utterly dominating Thanaton* mmhk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 In regards to what? Vitiate/Caedus vs Plagueis in TK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) *glances at him utterly dominating Thanaton* mmhk. Sure. Care to quantify how powerful his lightning was? Also Sidious was potentially doing the same thing at the end to Plagueis. Plagueis died because his respirator was destroyed. He was unharmed and this was against Sidious. In fact, it was more like Sidious was thanaton when he was unleashing his force storm on Nox. Except Sidious was doing it to Plagueis. Sidious has more accolades and feats than Thanaton. So Plagueis surviving it as long as he did was far more impressive. Edited January 21, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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