Beniboybling Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) I don't see how that makes my point moot. You realize there's plenty of people who are more knowledgeable in the force than Anakin but lack enough power that it doesn't matter? Knowledge of the force =/= raw power which is what this thread is about. It's literally about who is the strongest. Not who will win in a duel, who has more knowledge, etc. If Yoda has more force knowledge than Sidious but his power is close enough to be able to stand against him there is reason to assume that this might allow him to match him as an equal. This is why I gave the bladesman example.The thread is analyzing command over the Force, not just raw power. To be more clear it's assessing both how much raw power an individual possesses, and to what extent they are able to apply that power. Anyway honestly don't get you're point, and I don't think you're getting mine, I don't plan on predicating any argument of Yoda's superiority over ROTS Sidious on a quote anyway so I'm not going to press this point.The problem here is I think people are a bit biased because it goes very against the grain of what we originally thought. That there are two dark side users above Yoda. I understand this but sometimes we have to take a step back and look at the facts.Calling your opponents biased because they disagree with you is not a good strategy, not saying I'm offended but I would advise against it, you'll persuade nobody, and only present yourself as entrenched in your own opinions. I'm happy to concede Valkorion's superiority over Yoda if a good argument is made, so far no one's even tried. Edited November 4, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 lol @ the biased card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 https://memecrunch.com/meme/13OY2/she-s-right-you-know/image.png?w=400&c=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 https://memecrunch.com/meme/13OY2/she-s-right-you-know/image.png?w=400&c=1 I though the issue of Zoltan being a she was covered in a few threads Beni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 i though the issue of zoltan being a she was covered in a few threads beni. Yes. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 If only... PS: That's my color Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) If only... PS: That's my color Why don't you just make your avatar a male picture? Edited November 4, 2015 by Jarons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Why don't you just make your avatar a male picture?The colour, so violent. And yeah Zoltan, conform to heteronormative conventions already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 If only... PS: That's my color Mine's slightly more purple. Besides all the cool people have this colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Mine's slightly more purple. Besides all the cool people have this colour. Silenceo will Remember this action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 The colour, so violent. And yeah Zoltan, conform to heteronormative conventions already. You're one to talk, your avatar is masked, how do we know you're conforming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Silenceo will Remember this action I've lost conquest already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Why don't you just make your avatar a male picture? Gief Grievous, Starkiller, Nihl, Kenobi, etc avatar and I might. Most of these look ****. Edited November 4, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 You're one to talk, your avatar is masked, how do we know you're conforming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Called it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Is nobody actually going to address the evidence to the contrary? You mean the script? Yeah, the script does nothing to help your case. It says they both flew off the podium. What, you think Yoda just jumped off on his own? :/ The novel describes that particular scene a. differently, b. from Yoda's point of view and c. is an inferior source to the script. However the fact that Sidious was barely able to cling to a senate pod strongly indicates he was pooped. You mean the novel that was reviewed and edited by George Lucas himself per Stover? I'd think they are on similar grounds given Lucas' involvement in each. And just because it's in Yoda's perspective does not invalidate it at all. It provides the detail that shows that Yoda was putting everything he had into it. And heck the script helps my case. It says he went searching for Yoda. Why would he do that if he was 'pooped'? He may have expended a great deal of energy, but Yoda had reached his highest limit, per the novel. The script does not contradict this nor does the film itself. Edited November 4, 2015 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) The colour, so violent. And yeah Zoltan, conform to heteronormative conventions already. Its to match me new faction. Edited November 4, 2015 by Jarons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Its to match me new faction. Maybe our factions won't ally then lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Oh good...Red. You'll forgive me if I find your posts difficult to read. I have slight colorblindness when it comes to reds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 You mean the script? Yeah, the script does nothing to help your case. It says they both flew off the podium. What, you think Yoda just jumped off on his own? :/ You mean the novel that was reviewed and edited by George Lucas himself per Stover? I'd think they are on similar grounds given Lucas' involvement in each. And just because it's in Yoda's perspective does not invalidate it at all. It provides the detail that shows that Yoda was putting everything he had into it. And heck the script helps my case. It says he went searching for Yoda. Why would he do that if he was 'pooped'? He may have expended a great deal of energy, but Yoda had reached his highest limit, per the novel. The script does not contradict this nor does the film itself. Let's also not forget that Sidious isn't one to make unnecessary risks. So if he felt he could pursue and kill Yoda it wasn't out of arrogance. He truly felt he could pursue and kill Yoda. If he was losing or being overpowered this would be incredibly stupid. Something we know Sidious isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Maybe our factions won't ally then lol. We will be but it's complicated let's say my faction blends the line between the light and dark side. Edited November 4, 2015 by Jarons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Like side? Is that a facebook faction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 You mean the script? Yeah, the script does nothing to help your case. It says they both flew off the podium. What, you think Yoda just jumped off on his own? :/I mean the script and the film, the film depicts Palpatine being visibly overwhelmed. That is not what a stalemate looks like, this is what a stalemate looks like. Can you spot the difference? And the scripts says that Yoda "throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium" i.e. he overpowered him. Yoda is described as being "knocked off the Podium", but this is not attributed to Sidious directly, instead we are left to assume it was a result of the excess energy Yoda failed to contain, the backlash of deflecting the attack. If it were a stalemate as you describe the film would depict them both struggling as equals, however it is Yoda pushing forward with an expression of resolve, and Palpatine floundering in desperation as the is pushed back. Secondly he script would not use language partial to Yoda i.e. "they both fly off the podium." They do not because it was not. However I forgot to add TCW to the list, which also depicts Yoda defeating Palpatine in the hallucination scene, but with Yoda's superiority being more obvious: Both are blown back, but it is more obvious that Yoda is blowing Sidious away, and being stumbled by the backlash.You mean the novel that was reviewed and edited by George Lucas himself per Stover? I'd think they are on similar grounds given Lucas' involvement in each.I'm not saying the novel is not in keeping with Lucas' vision, but the films, the script and TCW (which also had Lucas' heavy involvement) are ultimately going to be more accurate. Stover's writing of the scene for example, is more symbolic, generalised and metaphorical than the film. And just because it's in Yoda's perspective does not invalidate it at all. It provides the detail that shows that Yoda was putting everything he had into it. That wasn't my point, my point is it only tells you what Yoda is experiencing, not Palpatine, we do not know what Palpatine is feeling in this situation, only what Yoda percieves. The fact that it doesn't mention Palpatine's exhaustion is therefore irrelevant, as it doesn't mention Palpatine's condition at all.And heck the script helps my case. It says he went searching for Yoda. Why wouldn't he? Palpatine had the high ground, ergo he had won, hence why he cackles despite hanging vulnerably from a pod. Yoda retreated because he didn't have the energy to reclaim it. But do you think Sidious would have attempt to reengage if the roles were reversed?Why would he do that if he was 'pooped'? He may have expended a great deal of energy, but Yoda had reached his highest limit, per the novel. The script does not contradict this nor does the film itself.If he were not exhausted, why didn't he Force leap onto the Senate pod, why didn't he pursue Yoda immediately rather than clinging on to the rungs of the pod for dear life? If he can't even pull himself onto a pod he's obviously exhausted. Furthermore, if Palpatine had not expended his energy, why was he unable to sustain his Force lightning attack against Yoda? Why was Yoda able to push his energy back, and throw him off the platform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Like side? Is that a facebook faction? What are you talking about zoltan its says light side.Check again. Edited November 4, 2015 by Jarons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 we will be but it's complicated let's say my faction blends the line between the light and dark side. omg it's darth revan, he's a master of both the light and the dark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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