The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

[S_W_LeGenD]

Control

 

Beni said that because Valky said he no longer needs Voices, Hands, and Children his surivival was not dependant on the Outlander. I beg to differ. People with the ego are prone to exaggerate. Remember when Dooku claimed he is more powerful than Yoda? Well Valky doesn't lack ego either. So I wouldn't take his claim at face value.

You are overlooking developments in Yavin IV and Ziost involving Valkorion. We have (perfect) evidence of Valkorion existing in disembodied form on these planets. In-fact, some of his best showings are on these planets.

 

Valkorion's assertion is absolutely true. Anybody - who is playing all missions and expansions of SWTOR - is aware of this fact.

 

His situation is very similar to that of RotJ Sidious. They both died with two powerful force users nearby. But there were differences.

 

• Sidious was thrown down a shaft, making the distance farther than in case of Valky.
  
• At the death of Sidious the people present were a dying, half human half cyborg Vader, and a very capable Vader level Luke. In case of Valky, he had a knocked out Outlander and a knocked out Arcann. Making ET a lot easier.
  
• Valky at the start of chapter V confirmed that he and the Outlander are indivisible, suggesting that he needed him/her as an anchor.
  

Valkorion is an entity, he is not dependent upon a corporeal vessel to exist. This is apparent from his actions on Yavin IV and Ziost. He does not die after loosing his corporeal vessel in KoTFE. You can learn this from the dialogue choices between the Outlander and Valkorion in chapter 2.

 

 

Outlander: Your death was too good to be true. You can't fool me.

Valkorion: Deception was not my desire. You deserve truth.

 

 

In addition, Valkorion seems to have transformed the Outlander into a Voice; I get the feeling that he has an agenda. Lana Beniko also suspects this.

 

Sense

 

Valky still doesn't have any notable sense feats afaik, correct me if I'm wrong. Palpy takes this handily.

It doesn't makes sense for a Force-user to be lacking in Sense spectrum when he is spectacular in Control and Alter spectrums. Official training procedure in a Jedi Academy is Control -> Sense -> Alter. A padawan is motivated to hone his talents in the spectrums of Control and Sense before attempting to do the same in Alter spectrum. Reason is that Alter abilities involve use of Control and Sense talents.

 

Valkorion experienced Force visions, sensed danger in advance at times and possessed excellent telepathic abilities. He is likely to have additional Sense-oriented talents. He is not well-explored in these aspects though (surprisingly). However, I will explore this matter and see what else I can find.

 

Alter

 

Lightning to lightning I think Sidi takes this. He knocked out Yoda and killed Windu. No matter the circumstances of the later it's far more impressive than knocking out a pre-prime Arcann and killing a post-prime Marr.

Valkorion overwhelmed the defenses of Revan, a Jedi Strike Team (comprising of Tol Braga, Warren Sedoru, Leeha Narezz and Hero of Tython), Arcann and Darth Marr with Force Lightning on separate occasions.

 

Pre-prime Arcann? He is a battle-hardened warrior at this point. He had proved his mettle in various battles by killing many Jedi, Sith and elite troops.

 

Post-prime Darth Marr? Granted that he was not in his top shape during this time but he still packed considerable punch. He slaughtered scores of Skytroopers and Knights of Zakuul with ease to prove his point.

 

Overwhelming (disarmed and compromised) Mace Windu isn't far more impressive then one-shotting Arcann. I don't regard this example as a legitimate demonstration of extreme potency of Force Lightning of Palpatine.

 

Palpatine did knock out Yoda with a blast of Force Lightning early on but Yoda managed to absorb another blast. However, Yoda's effort to deflect a blast of Force Lightning unleashed by Palpatine somehow backfired. Admittedly Palpatine is a master of Force Lightning and his expressions are really intense but Valkorion have superior showings in this department.

 

This is obviously just a rudimentary rundown, but even if Valky takes control due to him shrugging off death, Palply still takes this overall.

 

Hence Yoda > Valky. I'm willing to concede on Valky > Plagueis though.

Valkorion have advantage in Control and Alter spectrums.

Edited October 29, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[PadsterPwns]

Valkorion is an entity

 

Then we shouldn't be debating on him, rule 2 on the first page. Though how do you know he is, it is mentioned that while he was Vitiate he barely did anything in Zakuul, supporting the idea that Vitiate was likely just another Voice or body he tied his essence to, therefore not an entity. Which one do you choose?

[PadsterPwns]

You are overlooking developments in Yavin IV and Ziost involving Valkorion. We have (perfect) evidence of Valkorion existing in disembodied form on these planets. In-fact, some of his best showings are on these planets.

 

Both of those planets are Dark Side nexuses, meaning his showings there were amped.

 

Pre-prime Arcann? He is a battle-hardened warrior at this point. He had proved his mettle in various battles by killing many Jedi, Sith and elite troops..

 

That still doesn't matter considering that prime Arcann managed to deflect Valkorion's Force Storm from him. So while pre-prime Arcann may be impressive he still wasn't at his prime at which point Valky can't one-shot him. The fact that Arcann could block Valkorion's Force Storm shows prime Arcann >> pre-prime Arcann

 

Post-prime Darth Marr? Granted that he was not in his top shape during this time but he still packed considerable punch. He slaughtered scores of Skytroopers and Knights of Zakuul with ease to prove his point..

 

Defeating Skytroopers with ease isn't exactly hard, Lana's been shown to do it, as have HK-55 and Koth.

 

Overwhelming (disarmed and compromised) Mace Windu isn't far more impressive then one-shotting Arcann. I don't regard this example as a legitimate demonstration of extreme potency of Force Lightning of Palpatine.

 

It's more impressive considering that Sidious was literally bending the blade of Mace's lightsaber backwards, a feat that hasn't been replicated by anyone. If making a lightsaber blade bend isn't an example of potency I don't know what is. Also even if that potency demonstration wasn't enough RotS Sidious knocked out Yoda. What Lightning feat does Valky have better than that? RotS Sids Alter > Valky's Alter.

Edited October 29, 2015 by PadsterPwns

[Beniboybling]

You are overlooking developments in Yavin IV and Ziost involving Valkorion. We have (perfect) evidence of Valkorion existing in disembodied form on these planets. In-fact, some of his best showings are on these planets.

 

Valkorion's assertion is absolutely true. Anybody - who is playing all missions and expansions of SWTOR - is aware of this fact.

I don't necessarily agree with Zoltan's point but Yavin IV and Ziost are poor examples that prove nothing, both planets where strong in the dark side, and would have provided plenty of living Force energy for Vitiate to sustain himself on.

Valkorion is an entity, he is not dependent upon a corporeal vessel to exist.

This is pretty questionable as Arcann describes Valkorion as weakening in his non-corporeal form. Valkorion can certainly exist without a body but he still chooses to inhabit one all the same.

 

Fact is Valkorion still needs a connection to the living Force, and that can only be achieved through living things that possess midichlorians, Valkorion is never going to transcend what is ultimately a fundamental law of the Force.

In addition, Valkorion seems to have transformed the Outlander into a Voice; I get the feeling that he has an agenda. Lana Beniko also suspects this.

Valkorion clearly has plans for the Outlander, the question is how dependent he is on them.

Then we shouldn't be debating on him, rule 2 on the first page. Though how do you know he is, it is mentioned that while he was Vitiate he barely did anything in Zakuul, supporting the idea that Vitiate was likely just another Voice or body he tied his essence to, therefore not an entity. Which one do you choose?

Valkorion is confirmed to be an "ancient Sith entity" in his codex entry, but as he chooses to embody a physical form, this doesn't make him exempt from consideration.

 

I think the idea BioWare is attempting to convey is that Valkorion doesn't have a "true body", he can't be limited or defined to any one physical form, they are just vessels. This isn't very different from Reborn Palpatine who shed his intial form to inhabit various clones. Reborn Palpatine effectively became an entity as well, rather than a person.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Beniboybling

[PadsterPwns]

Valkorion is confirmed to be an "ancient Sith entity" in his codex entry, but as he chooses to embody a physical form, this doesn't make him exempt from consideration.

 

I think the idea BioWare is attempting to convey is that Valkorion doesn't have a "true body", he can't be limited or defined to any one physical form, they are just vessels. This isn't very different from Reborn Palpatine who shed his intial form to inhabit various clones. Reborn Palpatine effectively became an entity as well, rather than a person.

 

Thanks for correcting me on that. Are my other points still valid?

[S_W_LeGenD]

Then we shouldn't be debating on him, rule 2 on the first page. Though how do you know he is, it is mentioned that while he was Vitiate he barely did anything in Zakuul, supporting the idea that Vitiate was likely just another Voice or body he tied his essence to, therefore not an entity. Which one do you choose?

I wouldn't complain if he is removed from the rankings. His entity status is now official as pointed out by Beniboybling.

 

Valkorion's actions are similar to those of other entities such as Abeloth and Sel Makor. Valkorion have demonstrated the capability to possess a large number of individuals simultaneously and use them to do his bidding (this is apparent from his actions on Ziost). Earlier, he created Voices and Children by planting his essence into hundreds of individuals and deploying them in different worlds to expand his reach (this continued for centuries).

 

It shall be noted that Valkorion created his first Voice after the events of Revan. Therefore, I assume that he started Zakuul project at some point after the events of Revan. This time, his vast experience enabled him to develop a new superpower at a much faster pace.

 

Both of those planets are Dark Side nexuses, meaning his showings there were amped.

Per this logic, we should dismiss his showings on Dromund Kaas as well? We should assume that Valkorion could not defeat Revan in a neutral setting?

 

Valkorion corrupted the entire environment of Dromund Kaas and transformed the region of the Dark Temple into a powerful nexus of Dark Side energy. He doesn't needs a nexus to be strong, he creates them.

 

That still doesn't matter considering that prime Arcann managed to deflect Valkorion's Force Storm from him. So while pre-prime Arcann may be impressive he still wasn't at his prime at which point Valky can't one-shot him. The fact that Arcann could block Valkorion's Force Storm shows prime Arcann >> pre-prime Arcann

A codex entry reveals that Arcann specializes in defensive applications of the Force. It is possible that Arcann developed new techniques to protect himself from various powers. However, Valkorion wasn't as strong in Outlander's form as he was back then.

 

Defeating Skytroopers with ease isn't exactly hard, Lana's been shown to do it, as have HK-55 and Koth.

Darth Marr have history of (singlehandedly) taking on multiple foes and overwhelming them in battles. Whether the foes were Skytroopers, Republic forces or Knights of Zakuul; Darth Marr had no trouble in tackling entire groups of them on his own. Check this profile for details: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/darth-marr-respect-thread/103084/

 

It's more impressive considering that Sidious was literally bending the blade of Mace's lightsaber backwards, a feat that hasn't been replicated by anyone. If making a lightsaber blade bend isn't an example of potency I don't know what is. Also even if that potency demonstration wasn't enough RotS Sidious knocked out Yoda. What Lightning feat does Valky have better than that? RotS Sids Alter > Valky's Alter.

Or Mace Windu felt that way? I don't see his Lightsaber bending in the big-budget movie.

 

Valkorion's Force Lightning can be safely assumed to be intense enough to disintegrate Lightsabers by the way. This is apparent from his performance against a Jedi Strike Team and his Sith apprentice disintegrating a Lightsaber of Teneb Kel (Based on the fact that Valkorion enhanced the capabilities of his Sith apprentice). Revan and Arcann also felt that they could not contain his Force Lightning with a Lightsaber and deactivated them to prevent their loss.

Edited October 30, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[S_W_LeGenD]

I don't necessarily agree with Zoltan's point but Yavin IV and Ziost are poor examples that prove nothing, both planets where strong in the dark side, and would have provided plenty of living Force energy for Vitiate to sustain himself on.

 

Yes, those planets were strong in the Dark Side but we need to focus on additional details to determine facts. Valkorion began to regain his strength during a war (the events of SoR) on Yavin IV; he utilized his Force Drain powers to great effect during these events to regain his strength, killing many in the process (acknowledged by Darth Marr and confirmed by Valkorion himself). After regaining sufficient strength, Valkorion traversed lightyears distance in the void of space to reach Ziost and ravaged it with his powers.

 

 

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

 

Unleashed from his sanctuary on Yavin 4, the former Sith Emperor has now struck the Imperial world of Ziost. Using his immense power in the dark side of the Force, he has dominated the minds of the planet’s Imperial troops--as well as an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi--and has set them against the populace, engaging in a bloody slaughter.

 

 

Even in KoTFE, when Valkorion's primary Voice is struck down, he (laughs) and proceeds to transform the Outlander into a Voice. Later on, he informs the Outlander that he doesn't needs corporeal vessels to exist and function. He is correct; we (as players) have witnessed this truth on Yavin IV and Ziost. The Outlander agrees with him as well. The Outlander even jokes that perhaps a Star may have sufficient energy to kill him. Ignoring these developments makes no sense.

 

This is pretty questionable as Arcann describes Valkorion as weakening in his non-corporeal form. Valkorion can certainly exist without a body but he still chooses to inhabit one all the same.

 

Fact is Valkorion still needs a connection to the living Force, and that can only be achieved through living things that possess midichlorians, Valkorion is never going to transcend what is ultimately a fundamental law of the Force.

Can you provide a link for that claim? I would like to understand the context.

 

My personal observation is that Valkorion is restricted in his capabilities while utilizing the Outlander as a corporeal vessel. Reason is that he risks harming the Outlander if he goes overboard and he is not planning to kill the Outlander yet. Do keep in mind that he one-shots Arcann again (with a second blast of energy) after the first blast fails to overwhelm him.

 

Valkorion's power may fluctuate depending upon various factors. Corporeal vessels, in particular, seem to put a cap on his capabilities. This is the situation with corporeal vessels:

 

 

Taken from Star Wars: The OId Republic: Revan

 

The dark side had radiated from him in palpable waves, his physical shell barely able to contain the crackling energy.

 

 

As pointed out above, Valkorion risks destroying a corporeal vessel if he makes a big move while possessing it. Valkorion's true strength becomes apparent in non-corporeal form. His performance on Ziost is testament to this fact.

 

Valkorion clearly has plans for the Outlander, the question is how dependent he is on them.

Valkorion is apparently manipulating the Outlander. In-fact, this is a smart move on his part. In this manner, he remains fully aware of all activities of the Outlander and his allies. Lana Beniko is not comfortable with this situation and is trying to convince the Outlander to not fall for his trap. They even have a dialogue in which Lana Beniko asserts that they will find a way to get rid of Valkorion's influence over the Outlander (if memory serves me correctly).

 

Valkorion is confirmed to be an "ancient Sith entity" in his codex entry, but as he chooses to embody a physical form, this doesn't make him exempt from consideration.

 

I think the idea BioWare is attempting to convey is that Valkorion doesn't have a "true body", he can't be limited or defined to any one physical form, they are just vessels. This isn't very different from Reborn Palpatine who shed his intial form to inhabit various clones. Reborn Palpatine effectively became an entity as well, rather than a person.

Yes, I perceive Darth Sidious (DE) as an entity. I have even asserted that he is stronger then any corporeal Force-user during this time.

Edited October 30, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[tunewalker]

Just wanted to point to one thing, I do not think Valkorien can take over the Outlander with out some permission from the outlander himself.

 

 

If you refuse him all the time he never takes over your body, if you let him in once, you gave him the keys to the castle and if you try to refuse him against Arcann in Chapter 9 he will take over any way, but that to me suggests that he IS trying to manipulate the Outlander, but with out the Outlander letting him in, with out the keys to the castle, he CANT get in, no matter how much he wishes to, meaning that even as a incorporeal being Valkorien has very real limits, even when acting on Zoist, he only ever acted through the bodies of others, taking over their minds and using their bodies to affect the physical plain, for his rituals and other ends.

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by tunewalker

[S_W_LeGenD]

Just wanted to point to one thing, I do not think Valkorien can take over the Outlander with out some permission from the outlander himself.

 

 

If you refuse him all the time he never takes over your body, if you let him in once, you gave him the keys to the castle and if you try to refuse him against Arcann in Chapter 9 he will take over any way, but that to me suggests that he IS trying to manipulate the Outlander, but with out the Outlander letting him in, with out the keys to the castle, he CANT get in, no matter how much he wishes to, meaning that even as a incorporeal being Valkorien has very real limits, even when acting on Zoist, he only ever acted through the bodies of others, taking over their minds and using their bodies to affect the physical plain, for his rituals and other ends.

This sounds like plot armor.

 

Valkorion have forged a telepathic link with the Outlander and decides to assist him in dire situations but the Outlander can refuse his help. Now, from story-telling perspective, if Valkorion takes control of the Outlander by force, then the (players) would feel lack of control. Therefore, what we are witnessing is good from story-telling angle.

 

 

The Outlander might be a Hand at this point. Valkorion's relationship with the Hands (in the past) is apparently similar to this one.

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[Beniboybling]

If Tunewalker is correct in saying that Valkorion can override your choice in Chapter 9, then that's not true.

 

Interesting find Tunewalker, very interesting. I also believe its implied Valkorion can't dominate the HoT.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Beniboybling

[S_W_LeGenD]

If Tunewalker is correct in saying that Valkorion can override your choice in Chapter 9, then that's not true.

 

Interesting find Tunewalker, very interesting. I also believe its implied Valkorion can't dominate the HoT.

We should not forget that Valkorion is manipulating the Outlander and it is expected from him to hype the Outlander at times. As I stated, this seems to be plot armor.

 

If Valkorion can possess hundreds of Jedi simultaneously (as witnessed on Ziost), he can possess any single Jedi. There is a codex entry which asserts that Valkorion can break even the most powerful Jedi.

[Rhyltran]

We should not forget that Valkorion is manipulating the Outlander and it is expected from him to hype the Outlander at times. As I stated, this seems to be plot armor.

 

If Valkorion can possess hundreds of Jedi simultaneously (as witnessed on Ziost), he can possess any single Jedi. There is a codex entry which asserts that Valkorion can break even the most powerful Jedi.

 

Except when he overrites your choice the game says at the bottom..

 

"You have given up too much power to Valkorion and he ignores your choice."

 

So apparently by agreeing to accept his power you're giving up power and control.

 

Plus it's different here than before. He has no body. You might point to Ziost but I think there's a fact most people aren't considering. He can't be entirely incorporeal in those events. Why? He still has a body. He has Valkorion and has had Valkorion for centuries. He directs "Vitiate" as his will but he's still using Valkorion as an anchor. During chapter 2 he has no body. His last body (Valkorion) is dead. So we don't know exactly how much of his old power he has left. Arcann notes that he's weakening and this happens regardless if you accept Valky's power or not. So that's based on his father's presence when he encounters you at the end.

 

Remember the HOT fight? We're told directly that he has been weakened. We know he was weakened from losing his voice on Voss. We know he was weakened from the Jedi knight story. How much was he weakened from losing his main body (Valkorion)?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Beniboybling]

If Valkorion can possess hundreds of Jedi simultaneously (as witnessed on Ziost), he can possess any single Jedi.

Proof? This is a baseless assumption. As is you're idea that this is a dismissable "story element."

[tunewalker]

If Tunewalker is correct in saying that Valkorion can override your choice in Chapter 9, then that's not true.

 

Interesting find Tunewalker, very interesting. I also believe its implied Valkorion can't dominate the HoT.

 

He can only override your decision if you let him in once. If you let him in prior to the fight with Arcann in Chapter 9, and then refuse his help in that fight, he will say something along the lines of "NO I will not miss this opportunity" and he will take over any way, I am trying to find the video of this, but I have seen it, but obviously if you chose light the whole time he cant get in, and wont try to, if you chose dark the whole time then he always got in with your permission any way so it doesnt matter.

Edited October 30, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

He can only override your decision if you let him in once. If you let him in prior to the fight with Arcann in Chapter 9, and then refuse his help in that fight, he will say something along the lines of "NO I will not miss this opportunity" and he will take over any way, I am trying to find the video of this, but I have seen it, but obviously if you chose light the whole time he cant get in, and wont try to.

 

I picked dark side when Lana was in danger...for reasons. But I refused in the Arcann fight, and he didn't took over. You either have to pick a specific DS option, or more than 1.

[tunewalker]

I picked dark side when Lana was in danger...for reasons. But I refused in the Arcann fight, and he didn't took over. You either have to pick a specific DS option, or more than 1.

 

Ok, not sure which ones it is then, cus I have seen the whole "choose light side" against arcann, and he takes over any way, thought it was any dark side choice... maybe its kneel, or maybe its more then 1, still he needs you to let him in....

[Rhyltran]

He can only override your decision if you let him in once. If you let him in prior to the fight with Arcann in Chapter 9, and then refuse his help in that fight, he will say something along the lines of "NO I will not miss this opportunity" and he will take over any way, I am trying to find the video of this, but I have seen it, but obviously if you chose light the whole time he cant get in, and wont try to, if you chose dark the whole time then he always got in with your permission any way so it doesnt matter.

 

No. He overrides you if you chose his side twice. Kneeing counts as one by the way.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Rhyltran

[tunewalker]

No. He overrides you if you chose his side twice. Kneeing counts as one by the way.

 

like I said, clearly made the mistake I thought it was just once, I was wrong... and with THAT fact... it suggests an even greater limit to his power then the first one did. He needs familiarity with you.

[Beniboybling]

Interesting, very interesting, if you find a video do share.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Proof? This is a baseless assumption. As is you're idea that this is a dismissable "story element."

Here:

 

 

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

 

Unleashed from his sanctuary on Yavin 4, the former Sith Emperor has now struck the Imperial world of Ziost. Using his immense power in the dark side of the Force, he has dominated the minds of the planet’s Imperial troops--as well as an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi--and has set them against the populace, engaging in a bloody slaughter.

 

&

 

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

 

Obsessed with achieving immortality, the Sith Emperor has targeted his own former subjects on the planet Ziost, with every death seemingly extending his dark power. Speaking through those he’s possessed, he controls powerful pawns like Master Surro, the leader of a team of elite militarized Jedi known as the Sixth Line.

 

 

&

 

 

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight)."

 

The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi's connection to the light side.

 

 

Clear enough?

Edited October 30, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[PadsterPwns]

If Valkorion can possess hundreds of Jedi simultaneously (as witnessed on Ziost), he can possess any single Jedi. There is a codex entry which asserts that Valkorion can break even the most powerful Jedi.

 

Really? We've seen people break out of his control before like Kira Carson, a Jedi Knight, who was already a Child of the Emperor. Also in the examples you posted above just because they're "elite militaristic Jedi" doesn't mean they're really powerful, same goes for Master Surro. In addition, are you suggesting that because he possessed some "elite" Jedi he could possess someone like DE Luke? If so that is woefully untrue.

[cs_zoltan]

Here:

 

 

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

 

Unleashed from his sanctuary on Yavin 4, the former Sith Emperor has now struck the Imperial world of Ziost. Using his immense power in the dark side of the Force, he has dominated the minds of the planet’s Imperial troops--as well as an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi--and has set them against the populace, engaging in a bloody slaughter.

 

&

 

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

 

Obsessed with achieving immortality, the Sith Emperor has targeted his own former subjects on the planet Ziost, with every death seemingly extending his dark power. Speaking through those he’s possessed, he controls powerful pawns like Master Surro, the leader of a team of elite militarized Jedi known as the Sixth Line.

 

 

&

 

 

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight)."

 

The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi's connection to the light side.

 

 

Clear enough?

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/TjZjp1gx0lfFu/giphy.gif

Edited October 31, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[S_W_LeGenD]

Really? We've seen people break out of his control before like Kira Carson, a Jedi Knight, who was already a Child of the Emperor. Also in the examples you posted above just because they're "elite militaristic Jedi" doesn't mean they're really powerful, same goes for Master Surro. In addition, are you suggesting that because he possessed some "elite" Jedi he could possess someone like DE Luke? If so that is woefully untrue.

Do not forget that Valkorion broke Revan and Malak simultaneously at some point in history. Valkorion's telepathic showings are among the best in the mythos without an iota of doubt.

 

Among the Sixth Line Jedi commandos, Jedi Master Surro was strongest. Not sure about her holistic standing but Valkorion was able to dispatch groups of individuals (easily and simultaneously) through her.

 

Besides, I have discussed this matter before with another member:

 

That is possible since Vitiate was expending lot of energy on possessing countless beings so a few may have been able to resist his telepathic subjugation effort. However, the number of possessed individuals was actually increasing with passage of time. At one point, nearly the entire planet's populace had fallen under the influence of Vitiate. In addition, Vitiate was not only possessing individuals, he was involved in a lot of activity. Furthermore, some agents of the Republic and Sith Empire were trying to counter Vitiate's influence via electrostatic guns and/or weapons.

 

Now imagine Vitiate channeling much of his power [in telepathic form] into a 'single' opponent, he risks destroying the mind of the target. This have happened in some cases:

 

 

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

 

He was a living embodiment of the dark side of the Force who delighted in destroying the minds and spirits of those Jedi who came too close to him.

 

 

It shall also be kept in mind that Vitiate does not necessarily goes all-out against an opponent with his telepathic powers. Particularly against those opponents whom he desires to use as his pwns. I can provide several examples to support this point, if you are interested.

 

Luke Skywalker is not insusceptible to telepathic subjugation. Lord Nyax almost broke him during their confrontation but Luke's allies managed to save him by telepathically augmenting his will to resist. If this had been a [1 on 1] confrontation, Luke would have ended-up as a pwn of Lord Nyax.

 

You may mention UnuThul but Luke managed to resist UnuThul's telepathic influence by projecting thoughts into the mind of UnuThul about their (shared) earlier history in which UnuThul used to be a good guy. Experiencing those thoughts, UnuThul stopped telepathically assaulting Luke.

 

In case of Vitiate, Luke's tricks are unlikely to work like they did against UnuThul; they don't have a shared history and Vitiate was never a good guy. Moreover, Luke doesn't have much idea about Vitiate's telepathic expressions and may not suspect them to be incredibly intense due to lack of experience. Vitiate's telepathic assault can be lot more intense then that of Lord Nyax's; I can make a comparison, if you are interested.

 

BioWare needs to tell a story and make it interesting. Now, to make a story interesting, PIS is sometimes intentionally implemented. For example, Abeloth did not kill Luke Skywalker and Ben Skywalker when she had a chance.

 

In KoTFE, Valkorion is playing nice so far. But deep down, companions of the Outlander are skeptical of his motives (and us (players) should be as well). Point is that Valkorion cannot be trusted.

 

Now, if the Outlander could really resist telepathic influence of Valkorion, he would have prevented Valkorion from forging a telepathic connection between them in the first place and/or terminated it soon after. I am not asserting that Valkorion's telepathic powers are infallible but they are potent and effective in most situations and some big names have fallen victim to them.

Edited October 31, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[PadsterPwns]

Master Surro was strongest among the Sixth Line Jedi commandos. Not sure about her holistic standing but Valkorion was able to (easily) dispatch groups of individuals simultaneously through her.

 

I don't know if I'm forgetting something (only did Ziost twice and that was two times too many) but AFAIK we only saw Master Surro killing innocent civilians and terrified soldiers. Also sorry if I sounded harsh with my reply before. The point about Kira breaking his control is still an issue though, especially since we have quotes saying he has weakened, despite how bs that sounds (IMO) considering he has displayed some of his best feats in KotFE.

 

B/W I have discussed this matter before with another member:

 

Interesting. I do have one question; which version of Luke was it that faced Lord Nyax? Depending on the answer my response will be different as I don't know much about Luke past Dark Empire. Also don't worry about comparing Lord Nyax to Valky (in TP) as I'd expect the result would be Valky >>> Nyax and I'd be sad if it wasn't.

 

Do not forget that Valkorion broke Revan and Malak simultaneously at some point in history. Valkorion's telepathic showings are among the best in the mythos without an iota of doubt.

 

I wouldn't argue against that, his TP is undeniably top tier in the mythos, however that was a pre-prime Revan (me saying anything positive about him is rare lol). Also the Kira issue still remains.

 

Now, if the Outlander could really resist telepathic influence of Valkorion, he would have prevented Valkorion from forging a telepathic connection between them in the first place and/or terminated it soon after. I am not asserting that Valkorion's telepathic powers are infallible but they are potent and effective in most situations and some big names have fallen victim to them.

 

The one problem with this argument is that when Valky does enter the Outlander, it looks more like an Essence Transfer rather than TP. Zoltan, Rhyltran and I were discussing this earlier and we pretty much settled on that Valky likely used some form of Essence Transfer that allows both essences to survive. Also when the PC does what Valky wants it likely isn't TP but instead Valkorion's essence is literally controlling the Outlander's body, the fact that everyone thinks they're inseparable hints towards Valkorion's essence being inside the Outlander because how do you separate two essences? In addition just because some big names have fallen to it, it doesn't mean the likes of DE Luke, RotS Yoda or DE Sidious would be dominated by him. Another thing to consider is that essences are usually involved when battles of wills take place, when Valky forces the Outlander to do something it could literally be that (due to the idea of a variant of ET) he is overpowering the latter's will without destroying it rather than getting them to do it through TP.

 

BioWare needs to tell a story and make it interesting. Now, to make a story interesting, PIS is sometimes intentionally implemented.

 

Like you said we don't know Valky's goal, though my bet would be that he's grooming the Outlander to become his vessel and then he can rule Zakuul again.

[Beniboybling]

Clear enough?

No, that still doesn't prove this:

 

If Valkorion can possess hundreds of Jedi simultaneously ... he can possess any single Jedi.

 

To be the case. Nor do I see any reason to believe that last statement is not hyperbole.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Beniboybling