The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

[Beniboybling]

So we're dismissing that Vader has an amulet himself, something stated in numerous old and relatively new sources, but when it comes to Exar Kun we're dismissing all his alter feats as amplified because he has exactly the same thing?

It's referenced in a fair amount of sources but it terms of in-universe appearances they are very scant outside the book itself and nowhere to my knowledge is it noted, in or out of universe, to amplify Vader's powers to any extent. In terms of the new Canon, its existence has not been acknowledged at all, yet Vader's powers are even more profound.

 

What it is, unlike Exar Kun's amulet, is obscure, and hardly grounds for reevaluating any of Vader's feats.

[LadyKulvax]

Except numerous sources including guides have referenced it, not to mention that the stated effects of the glove are very profound in nature, amping Sidious significantly is an example of it's extreme properties.

 

If Kun's amulet, the effects of which are obscure in their own right, is enough to warrant outright dismissing his case for a place at no.9 as you have seen fit to do. Then Vader's own amulet must be accounted for or we are looking at a selective application of the rules.

Edited September 5, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[cs_zoltan]

Two things I'd like to say about that:

1. I got all 3 books the glove is mentioned in, and none said anything about an amulet.
   
2. It was totally inconsistant, once Sidious wanted to use it to gain power, and other times Trioculus couldn't use it for anything...
   

[Beniboybling]

Care to name which rule states Kun's amulet should not be taken into account? I can't imagine how you reached the conclusion that the rules are being applied selectively.

 

If you can prove the amulet exists in Canon I'm all ears, but as far as I'm concerned its speculative to even assume they amped his EU feats, sources would also be appreciated on it amplifying Sidious.

 

On the other hand Exar Kun's amulet is only being considered to amp his powers when it is clearly in use i.e glowing, or is stated or implied to be in use. So if we are going to start talking about double standards I'm going to how to challenge you to show me some explicit mentions or visual depictions if its use by Vader.

[LadyKulvax]

Two things I'd like to say about that:

1. I got all 3 books the glove is mentioned in, and none said anything about an amulet.
   
2. It was totally inconsistant, once Sidious wanted to use it to gain power, and other times Trioculus couldn't use it for anything...
   

 

1.Sate Pestage was the one who laid the seeds for it's recovery so a weak Palpatine could restore his power quickly, the amulet was the item in question.

2.Because Trioculus couldn't discern how to use it.

[Beniboybling]

Still looking for concrete proof this amulet exists in Canon and amplifies his powers in Legends as well. I'd also raise that in terms of Legends we can't even be sure of when the amulet was fitted, especially given that:

 

 

1. Both of Vader's arms are replaced here after being buried alive.
    
    
   
2. During the Ambush on Kessel, Vader loses his right arm and is never seen to recover it.
    
    
   
3. In 0 ABY Vader's right arm was damaged and exposed by a pack of Hyenax, and yet no amulet is visible.
   

 

And I'm sure they're are other examples of this amulet failing to be upheld in larger continuity, certainly if you count Vader having his arm removed by Marek in The Force Unleashed II in-game cutscenes.

 

EDIT: I'm also remembering that it is nowhere mentioned in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, despite it describing in extensive detail the ins and outs of Vader's suit and how it was constructed.

 

EDIT: Also turns out that various plot points in the book have been contradicted and subsequently retconned over time from Han and Leia getting married (they didn't) to the Prophets of the Dark Side not actually being Prophets (they were a phony Church). So again I question whether this "glove" ever had any power at all, or existed full stop.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Beniboybling

[cs_zoltan]

1.Sate Pestage was the one who laid the seeds for it's recovery so a weak Palpatine could restore his power quickly, the amulet was the item in question.

2.Because Trioculus couldn't discern how to use it.

 

*shrug* I have them on PC, and I searched for the word "amulet", and "Kaan", but no result in any of the 3 books :/

[LadyKulvax]

So here is my final Kun related argument and it's regarding the JAT, we all know Kun was a disembodied will in this series, however the argument is made that Kun is more powerful and/or is advantaged by his state, this is flatly incorrect and contradictory to the Jedi Academy Sourcebook. Allow me to ellaborate:

 

Exar Kun, contrary to his taunts was sleeping for the four thousand years he remained on Yavin IV? He was not learning techniques as some suggest:

 

Exar Kun passed the millennia in uneasy slumber.

 

He was only awakened by the presence of powerful Force Users:

 

A few scant years later, Kun is brought sharply awake by the arrival of not one or two, but a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again.

 

On that point, Kun seeks to restore his living self and regain his lost reserves:

 

Eagerly but cautiously, Kun observes each arrival, probing for weaknesses and the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy.

 

For a time, he is able to subside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active. With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form.

 

Keeping in mind that as stated above all twelve students combined could restore his life and power:

 

a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again.

 

The suggestion has been made that Kyp Durron significantly empowered Exar Kun, this is not true as his powers are 'feeble' by comparison:

 

Behind him, Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities. His own feeble exploratory touch suddenly plunged forward like a blaster bolt. Kyp felt larger, a part of the jungle moon, then a part of the entire planetary system, until he burrowed into the heart of the gas giant itself.

 

Furthermore Kun augments Kyp's power over weeks, but also maintaining a mind control over him:

 

Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power.

 

Infact, Corran Horn accredits Kun with all of the power exoended to summon the Suncrusher and render Luke lifeless:

 

his effort to draw the Suncrusher from Yavin and to down Luke had tired him out.

 

All of his power are capable by using the emotions and energy reserves of the students that he controlled:

 

She[Tionne] supposes that the students have a chance of defeating him, since Kun no longer has his servants to draw power from, he[streen] is his only source.

 

Exar Kun himself possessed a great many other dark powers that he was unable to harness without the energy he needed to fuel his disembodied will. Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.

 

Remember, as stated above that to restore his life and lost power he needed the power of all twelve students, meaning he was never as powerful as he was in life:

 

a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again.

 

Corran Horn echoes that he had no idea how powerful Exar Kun could be despite being personally attacked by him:

 

I had no way to determine how powerful Exar Kun could be.

 

Kun even claims that his powers are on level with divinity and if Corran accepted his offer he would gain powers of divinity himself:

 

You could have been raised to the level of divinity by my hand. Now you will be destroyed by it."

 

Everything Kyp had done in his journey of the Dark Side was through Exar Kun:

 

And then the haunting voice of Exar Kun rose to a wail in his mind, an utterly forlorn scream as if he were being torn out of this universe and exiled to another place entirely, where he could torment Kyp Durron no more. Kyp snapped backward in his control seat as if an invisible tow cable had been severed. His arms and head dangled like a puppet with suddenly snipped strings. The cool wind of freedom whistled through his mind and body. He blinked his eyes and shuddered with revulsion at what he had been about to do.

 

Despite the fact Exar Kun only had the power of Kyp Durron's hate to call on he was able to defeat Jedi Master Luke Skywalker shortly after demonstrating massive sense and telekinetic proficiency:

 

Kyp made a dismissive gesture with one hand, and a sudden wave of dark ripples splashed across the air like the shock front of a concussion grenade. Luke stumbled backward. The lightsaber turned cold in his hand. Frost crystals grew in feathery patterns around the handle. At the core of the brilliant green blade a shadow appeared, a black disease rotting away the purity of the beam. The humming blade sputtered, sounding like a sickly cough. The black taint rapidly grew stronger, swallowing up the green beam. With a frizzle of sparks Luke’s lightsaber died.

Trying to control his growing fear, Luke felt a sudden brush of cold behind him. He turned to see a black, hooded*—the image that had impersonated Anakin Skywalker in Luke’s nightmare…the dark man who had lured Gantoris into a devastating loss of control.

Kyp’s voice came as if from a great distance. “At last, Master Skywalker, you can meet my mentor—Exar Kun.”

Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched. His every muscle suddenly coiled and tensed. He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic. With the Sun Crusher looming behind him, Kyp stretched out both hands and blasted Luke with lightning bolts like black cracks in the Force. Dark tendrils rose up from the gaps in the temple flagstones, fanged, illusionary vipers that struck at him from all sides. Luke cried out and tried to strike back, but the shadows of Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly force. The ancient Dark Lord of the Sith lashed out with waves of blackness, driving long icicles of frozen poison into Luke’s body.*

He thrashed, but felt helpless. To lose control to anger and desperation would be as great a failure as if he did nothing at all. Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him—but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly. Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail.*

The black serpentlike tentacles of evil force struck at him again and again, filling his body with a pain like lava coursing through his veins. As he screamed, his voice was swallowed by a hurricane from the dark side. Luke cried out one last time and crumpled backward to the blessedly cool flagstones of the Great Massassi Temple, as everything turned a smothering, final black around him…

 

Remembering that Exar Kun in life was far more powerful than he was here where he could only channel his powers through Kyp and as shown above repeatedly is accredited with defeating Luke Skywalker through his own power.

 

So for Kun to only be able to command some of his powers through them and still defeat Master Luke Skywalker regardless. That is alone evidence of being more powerful than Darth Vader whom Luke had surpassed already.

 

If not, there is yet more, Luke Skywalker states that Kyp could become even worse than Darth Vader if he'd turned to evil, power Kun had already given him:

 

If Kyp had fallen to the dark side, he could become another Darth Vader. Perhaps even worse…

 

Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail.

 

Kun's apprentice Ulic Qel-Droma was also very powerful, taking not that he's one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history:

 

he would one day become one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history.

 

Ulic coincidentally is a prefiguration of the Luke Skywalker that Tom Vietch wrote, that being Dark Empire:

 

"Ulic is a prefiguration of Luke Skywalker. He's rash and impulsive, an excellent swordsman. He acts before he thinks and has an angry streak. It was very difficult working out the story of his turning to the dark side, because we had to do it in very few pages."

 

Hopefully Kun's obviously massive Dark Side strength, far stronger than even Master Luke as of JAT can match, is respected here.

Edited September 9, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Great, but you're cherry picking information, and for the umpteenth time ignoring perhaps the most important piece of evidence in regards to this case. You already know what it is but I'll quote it again for the benefit of others:

 

Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power. He grows very powerful on Kyp's hate, and soon his hold on Kyp is so complete that he can send Kyp beyond the planet to do his will and still retain control over his subject. Ultimately, he has Kyp return to Yavin Four and helps him reclaim the Sun Crusher. He also bolsters Kyp's talents to allow him to defeat Luke and place him in a coma.

 

--Taken from Jedi Academy Sourcebook

And it's ironic that you chose to selectively quote this passage to support you're argument, however I'm afraid it makes the following facts as plain as day:

 

 

1. Exar Kun's powers were restored in their entirety by Kyp.
    
    
   
2. By augmenting Kyp's strength, not simply by using him as a conduit, Kun was able to defeat Luke.
   

 

Now you're raised the fact that 12 students where required to restore Kun to full strength. But it merely states that those dozen students had the power he needed, which leaves room for them having more than enough, nowhere is it stated that nothing more than 12 students would suffice, this being to not only restore his power but his physical form.

 

Secondly irrespective of how Kyp felt his powers compared to Kun, he remains a "frighteningly powerful" Force user, something stated by objective sources. Bearing in mind that Kun was at full strength at this point, and in spirit form, so without a physical form to limit him, would have been able to fill Kyp with immense amounts of energy.

 

Altogether we have Exar Kun at full power, unbound by physical form, and augmented by a prodigal Force user. Heck, shall we just throw in the fact that is was potentially Sith magic Luke had no experience defending against? Sure, let's, it only accentuates the fact that Exar Kun's spirit feats are not a valid means of assessing his ability.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

While I agree with you LK, I wanted to note, I dont think Kyp is getting enough credit there, when you read all of those passages and especially when you read some of the stuff Kyp does later in life. Its pretty clear to me that while Kun may have been "augmenting him" a LITTLE it wasnt pure augmentation as much as it was guidance. Bending him to his will isnt mind control either, it never was, it took time and CONVINCING not mind control, and pooring darkside into him, hate into him intocicating him on that power and that emotion. Its more akin to Palpatine's bending Anakin to his will then mind control. Kun didnt beat Luke alone, it even straight says it, the MIGHT of Kyp durron combined with the ancient and forbiden knowledge and techniques of exar kun. In that form, Kyp was the stronger of the pair, but lacked guidance, knowledge, understanding and experience, something Kun had in spades, and could give just a tiny taste to and it would sky rocket Kyp's abilities. Even the part that describes Kyp as "feeble" specifically talks about Kyp's TOUCH being feeble, he is feebly touching just hte smallest amount of things with his senses, then Kun places a hand on him and shows him how much MORE he can reach, how much more he can touch if he wasnt so narrow with his exploratory senses.

 

Considering how much power he lost when Kyp wasnt around that the other students thought they could take him them is why people consider Kyp to have provided him with so much energy, and remember the energy it takes to bring a being back from the dead does not = the strength that being had originally, it would have to be massively greater since... people dont just come back from the dead all willy nilly.

 

 

Edit: basically as far as we know he could draw on enough power to become 10x stronger then he was when he was alive and potentially still not have enough to come back from the dead.

Edited September 9, 2015 by tunewalker

[Rhyltran]

Even though I'm of the opinion Kun should be ranked 9 I will counter this point..

 

"A few scant years later, Kun is brought sharply awake by the arrival of not one or two, but a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again."

 

Does not state that it required all twelve of them to bring him to his full power. It pretty much states that each of those 12 had the power to awaken Kun.

[LadyKulvax]

@Beni

 

Firstly, it nowhere states Kun returned to full power there that's an assumption on your part that doesn't stand up to the other statements made. Kyp's hate made Kun temporarily very powerful, yet Kun in life is described as an extremely powerful figure. Yet Kyp himself is 'feeble' compared to Kun and even his power combined with Gantoris' only returned some of Kun's power.

 

Furthermore it isn't so much as what Kun did there, it's the fact that we know outright Kun was stronger in life than he ever was as a disimbodied will. Corran states he has no idea how powerful Kun really was, Luke agrees and calls Kun a very powerful focal point of the Dark Side alongside Palpatine.

 

Kun in a weaker state stomped Master Luke, at full power he'd do so even easier, his full power and lost reserves of energy would only return by becoming alive again.

 

Regardless seems we have 3 votes for Exar Kun so far unless I missed someone.

Edited September 10, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Firstly, it nowhere states Kun returned to full power there that's an assumption on your part that doesn't stand up to the other statements made.

Care to be specific? I'm failing to see any statements that suggest Kun's strength was temporary and not considerable, other than you're subjective slants on the evidence in so far brought up.

Kyp's hate made Kun temporarily very powerful, yet Kun in life is described as an extremely powerful figure.

This isn't a valid argument, the quote needs to be taken in the contexts of the passage, not some statements from other sources that used stronger adjectives. And in the contexts of the passage we are given no reason to believe that Kun becoming "very powerful" constitutes less than full strength, it certainly debunks any notion he was weak.

 

And even if "very powerful" doesn't constitute full strength, it's still very powerful, and augmented by Kyp.

Yet Kyp himself is 'feeble' compared to Kun and even his power combined with Gantoris' only returned some of Kun's power.

Tune hit the nail on the head, Kyp's exploration into the Force is feeble in comparison to Kun's, but that doesn't change the fact that he wields tremendous power and potential, which Kun tapped in to.

Furthermore it isn't so much as what Kun did there, it's the fact that we know outright Kun was stronger in life than he ever was as a disimbodied will. Corran states he has no idea how powerful Kun really was, Luke agrees and calls Kun a very powerful focal point of the Dark Side alongside Palpatine.

Sure we do, and these statements support this how?

Kun in a weaker state stomped Master Luke, at full power he'd do so even easier, his full power and lost reserves of energy would only return by becoming alive again.

Without Kyp, in physical form and without Sith magic? Speculation, and unlikely.

Regardless seems we have 3 votes for Exar Kun so far unless I missed someone.

Unfortunately this isn't a popularity contest.

[LadyKulvax]

Care to be specific? I'm failing to see any statements that suggest Kun's strength was temporary and not considerable, other than you're subjective slants on the evidence in so far brought up.

 

His strength was clearly temporary::

 

his effort to draw the Suncrusher from Yavin and to down Luke had tired him out.

 

The power he had was stated to be borrowed and dissipated whenever he became overtly active.

 

This isn't a valid argument, the quote needs to be taken in the contexts of the passage, not some statements from other sources that used stronger adjectives. And in the contexts of the passage we are given no reason to believe that Kun becoming "very powerful" constitutes less than full strength, it certainly debunks any notion he was weak.

 

And even if "very powerful" doesn't constitute full strength, it's still very powerful, and augmented by Kyp.

 

Very powerful does not equate to full strength, you are making a leap in judgement, Kun is only at full power in his body and failed to bring his full might to bear in his appearances:

 

Exar Kun himself possessed a great many other dark powers that he was unable to harness without the energy he needed to fuel his disembodied will. Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.

 

Kun was augmenting Kyp, not the other way around:

 

Behind him, Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities.

 

Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power.

 

You are missing a massively important piece of the picture here, Kun was more powerful but had no reserves of energy to project it, all his energy he gained from Kyp, Gantoris or Streen:

 

She supposes that the students have a chance of defeating him, since Kun no longer has his servants to draw power from, he is his only source.

 

Furthermore, it's clearly stated he needs a nucleus of followers to gain his full strength and live again:

 

With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form.

 

If that was not the case he would have simply done so whilst he had Streen, Gantoris and Kyp under his influence.

 

Tune hit the nail on the head, Kyp's exploration into the Force is feeble in comparison to Kun's, but that doesn't change the fact that he wields tremendous power and potential, which Kun tapped in to.

 

Because Kun feeds on other's negative energies to project his will, because he has no reserves of his own energy/power left:

 

the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy.

 

Sure we do, and these statements support this how?

 

Read the above.

 

Without Kyp, in physical form and without Sith magic? Speculation, and unlikely.

 

Kyp would be irrelevant once Kun was alive again and his powers would be far greater:

 

Exar Kun himself possessed a great many other dark powers that he was unable to harness without the energy he needed to fuel his disembodied will. Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.

 

Unfortunately this isn't a popularity contest.

 

Fortunately convincing you solely is irrelevant when any four people and an arbiter is all that is required.

Edited September 11, 2015 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Fortunately convincing you solely is irrelevant when any four people and an arbiter is all that is required.

Um actually the council needs to be in consensus before anything gets passed, but yeah, totally. Edited September 11, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

OK, so let's address what's important. While yes it is true that as a spirit Exar Kun's Force reserves do not replenish, and he's therefore reliant on external sources of energy for power, this doesn't mean he can't store up energy and as a spirit to an infinite degree. So while Kun's power may have depleted after taking out Luke, the fact remains that when he performed the act he was "very powerful", and what's more important is that power is exclusive of Kyp.

 

Yes, that power came from Kyp, but only in the respect that he was siphoning Kyp's hatred to build his own power. More importantly, Kyp was not drained by this action, given that as a corporeal Force user, his reserves would replenish. So what we have is a very powerful Kun, with strength independent of Kyp, augmenting Kyp's preexisting strength. Kun and Kyp may as well be separate entities, something made pretty clear in the narrative depiction:

Kyp stretched out both hands and blasted Luke with lightning bolts like black cracks in the Force. Dark tendrils rose up from the gaps in the temple flagstones, fanged, illusionary vipers that struck at him from all sides. Luke cried out and tried to strike back, but the shadows of Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly force. The ancient Dark Lord of the Sith lashed out with waves of blackness, driving long icicles of frozen poison into Luke’s body...

 

...Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail.

 

--Taken from Jedi Academy Trilogy

Clearly, it was through the combined might of Kyp Durron and Exar Kun, that they were able to overcome Luke. Heck, they even perform separate attacks, Kyp with his lightning and Kun with his waves of dark side energy. This not merely Kun realizing his power through Kyp, with Kyp adding nothing to the equation at all. This is Kyp and Kun working together, tag-teaming Luke to bring him down. With Kyp's dark side strength alone being enough to generate lightning.

 

So again I'm unconvinced that a "very powerful" Exar Kun combined with the power and potential of Kyp Durron, who with his "full might" could toss freighters and manipulate black holes is supposed to be lesser to Kun in his prime.

 

Especially considering that Luke believed that if Kyp fell to the dark side, he could become even more powerful than Vader, which for the record he did, which speaks volumes as to how potent a tool Kun had at his disposal. Both to replenish his lost power and augment his application of that power.

 

And for the record, no, consuming Kyp completely a la Gantoris would not have provided Kyp with the totality of his strength. There is a reason that Kun tried to seduce Luke's students as opposed to consuming them outright, and that's because as coporeal beings, the totality of their strength isn't housed within their body, it's something they draw upon, through their connection to the Force. Meaning Kun could experience infinitely greater returns by keeping Kyp alive, and continually siphoning the vast amounts of energy being channeled through him.

 

As for the claim that despite having Kyp to bolster his strength, there would still be powers unavailable to him, I've finding that pretty non-descript, especially considering that Kun prior to this absorbed the Force power of thousands of Massassi to empower his spirit that may very well have increased his capacity to wield the Force. And that Kun was capable of many abilities that went beyond his natural capabilities using amulets, apparatus, temples etc. Finally the amount of energy Kun could store up would be infinite as a non-coporeal being.

 

Simply put, we cannot assume that these "powers" that are referred to, would be realised through the same natural capacity to wield the Force as Kun in life, when for many reasons, Kun is capable of going beyond is natural ability.

 

Finally in regards to Kun, with his body restored, being capable of reaching divinity, what could have been etc. etc., irrelevant frankly, unless it can be proven that this new body, no doubt created through Sith magic purely out of the Force, would be equal to the fleshy body he came into the world in. I find that highly unlikely. We are talking about a dark side avatar, not a normal human form. We no reason to believe the capacity to wield the Force it would provide Kun would be equal to his former body, and ever reason to believe this new and improved version would be superior.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Another interesting piece of evidence I've discovered:

He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple.

--Taken from Dark Apprentice

This is describing Kyp Durron attempting to manipulate the Sun Crusher, which he did not only with Exar Kun's help, but by focusing power of the Great Temple. What's more Luke confronts him directly after.

The Sun Crusher hung suspended over the temple, still steaming in the morning air, resurrected from its tomb at the core of the gas giant. Kyp Durron spun around to stare at Luke, his black cape swirling with the rapid motion.

 

--Taken from Dark Apprentice

Kyp Durron then proceeds to whoop his @ss, on a focal point of dark side energy, which he has just prior tapped into, and with the assistance of Exar Kun. Who would also be empowered by the Temple. I again question how this is an unamped, unassisted feat for Kun, when Kun had an environmental advantage and a powerful ally.

[LadyKulvax]

Whilst I will concede on the majority of that, it is important to consider two things:

 

1.Kun's human body was shattered and then restored and imbued with Dark Side energy by Freedon Nadd, something stated to have made him a purely dark Force user, not capable of redemption. Presumably his new body would be the same.

 

2.Exar Kun is not a spirit and does not share the attributes of spirits like Nadd, he is much closer to the likes of Vitiate, another disembodied will. Noting that Kun ascended, he did not die.

[LadyKulvax]

Another interesting piece of evidence I've discovered:

He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple.

--Taken from Dark Apprentice

This is describing Kyp Durron attempting to manipulate the Sun Crusher, which he did not only with Exar Kun's help, but by focusing power of the Great Temple. What's more Luke confronts him directly after.

The Sun Crusher hung suspended over the temple, still steaming in the morning air, resurrected from its tomb at the core of the gas giant. Kyp Durron spun around to stare at Luke, his black cape swirling with the rapid motion.

 

--Taken from Dark Apprentice

Kyp Durron then proceeds to whoop his @ss, on a focal point of dark side energy, which he has just prior tapped into, and with the assistance of Exar Kun. Who would also be empowered by the Temple. I again question how this is an unamped, unassisted feat for Kun, when Kun had an environmental advantage and a powerful ally.

 

I already posted that, what you ignored is the fact that Kyp whilst using said focal point was still described as feeble in comparison to once Kun reinforced him, expanding his comparatively minor sense to feeling as if he was a part of the entire solar system. The temples served to anchor him there so as to withstand the wall of light that obliterated the surface, if he could use the temples he'd have been far more potent.

[Jarons]

Um actually the council needs to be in consensus before anything gets passed, but yeah, totally.

For someone to get on the list doesn't that force user need to have two supporters and a council member to make it on the list?

[cs_zoltan]

First off it's important to make the decision making process clear, to ensure the discussion progresses smoothly and stays organised final decisions will be made by a council of prominent debaters on these forums, which consists of Myself, Aurbere and Selenial. The decision has to be unanimously accepted by all three of us and endorsed by at least two other participants in the discussion. This way we can ensure verdicts are made on merit and without bias.

 

/5char

[Jarons]

/5char

Then it seems we will never have a number 9.Since all three believe someone different should get the spot.

[cs_zoltan]

Then it seems we will never have a number 9.Since all three believe someone different should get the spot.

 

That's why we are debating.

[Jarons]

That's why we are debating.

You been debating for a few months now about the same 3 Characters doe.I don't think anyone going to change their minds anytime soon.I believe just give it to all three their too close to one another to place one on top of the other.

[cs_zoltan]

Well so far 4 of us of the mind that Vader > Kun, back in the 423rd page we kinda agreed on Starkiller > Vader. We only have to place Revan in the mix.