Why does everyone keep asking for DT/CT.

[HanSollo]

You guys do realize that with the current class setups it would be totally useless anyways.

 

Stealthers kill us in a few globals

 

VG/PT and Commado/Merc Have HO/HtL

 

Sage/Sorc have Egress on a 15 second CD

 

Guardians/Juggernauts don't run from us.

 

GSers/Snipers yeah we would never get in range to use it.

 

That leaves only one class Sentinels and it would work on us fairly well.

 

Also...um you guys think the solution to everyone having too much movement CC is to add another movement CC ability.

Edited January 10, 2015 by HanSollo

[QuiveringPotato]

Sorry, what is DT/CT?

 

Are you talking about crippling throw?

 

I think people are asking for it because even if other classes can break roots...

10m root >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4m slow/double use root waste of 2 gcd's.

Edited January 10, 2015 by QuiveringPotato

[HanSollo]

Sorry, what is DT/CT?

 

Are you talking about crippling throw?

 

I think people are asking for it because even if other classes can break roots...

10m root >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4m slow/double use root waste of 2 gcd's.

 

Yes I get that it is a 10m root but ho would it work on now that's my point.

[Aluvi]

As a semi ranged class, PT/ Vanguard still gets automatic snares. I really feel like as a full 100% melee class, warriors need to have snares applied automatically. And I guess what I'm mainly refering to is Carnage. Get rid of the heroic double tap snare / root BS - no one is going to use it ever. Make a 2nd tier talent make Massacre slow by 50%. Done.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

As a semi ranged class, PT/ Vanguard still gets automatic snares. I really feel like as a full 100% melee class, warriors need to have snares applied automatically. And I guess what I'm mainly refering to is Carnage. Get rid of the heroic double tap snare / root BS - no one is going to use it ever. Make a 2nd tier talent make Massacre slow by 50%. Done.

 

Massacre, Vicious Slash, Furious Strike, and Annihilate and you have something right there!

[QuiveringPotato]

As a semi ranged class, PT/ Vanguard still gets automatic snares. I really feel like as a full 100% melee class, warriors need to have snares applied automatically. And I guess what I'm mainly refering to is Carnage. Get rid of the heroic double tap snare / root BS - no one is going to use it ever. Make a 2nd tier talent make Massacre slow by 50%. Done.

 

Well, we already have that 2nd tier talent that gives a 50% slow on some abilities (I think obliterate, charge, force rend, and devastating blast are the ones that do it), but they could add on Rupture, Massacre Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw, and Raging Burst if they wanted to go with a full on "most of your **** will slow people" kinda thing. But, it should have an ICD of 10s and the snare can last 8s or so, I think that'd be fair.

[Stanimir]

I know marauders aren't very good right now but some of the QQing on the forums is simply wrong.

 

Slows are not a problem for marauder. Annihilation has two roots (charge, second low slash), three slows (rend, charge, low slash) and a ranged stun (choke).

 

The problem is we lack the cooldowns/CC immunity of every other melee. And lord knows and as this forum shows, CCs are really important to TOR pvp.

 

Still I'm enjoying not being the flavor of the month, tbh. Once they "fix" us we'll see all the PvP guild marauders come back.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Stanimir

[HanSollo]

I know marauders aren't very good right now but some of the QQing on the forums is simply wrong.

 

Slows are not a problem for marauder. Annihilation has two roots (charge, second low slash), three slows (rend, charge, low slash) and a ranged stun (choke).

 

The problem is we lack the cooldowns/CC immunity of every other melee. And lord knows and as this forum shows, CCs are really important to TOR pvp.

 

Still I'm enjoying not being the flavor of the month, tbh. Once they "fix" us we'll see all the PvP guild marauders come back.

 

This exactly, we don't have enough time on target, and the general consensus is to add more as a solution. Plus I really feel it would fit the class better if it was more a I cant shake this guy rather then a I cant get away from this guy.

[Bonzenaattori]

Yes I get that it is a 10m root but ho would it work on now that's my point.

 

A better question to ask in this instance would be... "Why remove it in the first place?"

[HanSollo]

A better question to ask in this instance would be... "Why remove it in the first place?"

 

Well people were probably whining endlessly about us having a ranged root, so they took it away and tried to replace it with something they thought was more manageable.

[Atlanis]

Well people were probably whining endlessly about us having a ranged root, so they took it away and tried to replace it with something they thought was more manageable.

 

PTS Community wanted Sents to be dead in closed beta i believe, they should really invite other people to the pts next time. If one could talk about it one could say you hit it on the head, some Devs Kid (or a majority of the PTS Pop) was pissed that they were to stupid to counter a Sent pre3.0 (you are an idiot of you back then couldn´t counter us) so they put in nerfs to apease the Kid (Majority of the PTS Pop).

[QuiveringPotato]

PTS Community wanted Sents to be dead in closed beta i believe, they should really invite other people to the pts next time. If one could talk about it one could say you hit it on the head, some Devs Kid (or a majority of the PTS Pop) was pissed that they were to stupid to counter a Sent pre3.0 (you are an idiot of you back then couldn´t counter us) so they put in nerfs to apease the Kid (Majority of the PTS Pop).

 

Pretty sure Musco/other guy said on stream that the reasoning for taking out crippling throw was because "juggs don't get 3 saber throws, so maras shouldn't either", lol. They also wanted to cut down on ability bloat, so they just merged the effects.. still, crippling throw is far better. Why even bother having a 4m root when you could have a 10m one instead? It's not like you couldn't use crippling throw <4m, lol.

Edited January 12, 2015 by QuiveringPotato

[AngusFTW]

PTS Community wanted Sents to be dead in closed beta i believe, they should really invite other people to the pts next time. If one could talk about it one could say you hit it on the head, some Devs Kid (or a majority of the PTS Pop) was pissed that they were to stupid to counter a Sent pre3.0 (you are an idiot of you back then couldn´t counter us) so they put in nerfs to apease the Kid (Majority of the PTS Pop).

Please do not spout such rubbish.

[HanSollo]

Please do not spout such rubbish.

 

I guess you think Sent/Mara is perfect right now and the devs did a great job with it post 3.0. Just wondering hows Just Pursuit working for you?

[AngusFTW]

Did i say that? Edited January 12, 2015 by AngusFTW

[Atlanis]

Please do not spout such rubbish.

If it was rubbish the Sents would be perfectly fine, Testers and Devs did a bad job or their was a massive hate against Sents from the invited Beta testers. I would rather go with the 2nd one since normally nightmare progression guilds streaming stuff and comeptent guidewriters get invited;)

[AngusFTW]

I agree that sentinels aren't in the best place right now but you can't go accusing pts testers about killing the class, they can't even say anything in defense due to nda. They are not allowed to reveal anything that went down on there so you DONT KNOW. lol

 

I mean are you seriously trying to suggest that pts was full of guys going.. ye i think we should nerf sentinels till they are useless... ;_;

 

I mean a few of the people on this forum are on a blind temper tantrum without any actual reasonable thought tbh.

Edited January 12, 2015 by AngusFTW

[HanSollo]

Did i say that?

 

No you implied it by acting like he had no right to talk badly about people that clearly screwed the pooch in a major way.

 

I agree that sentinels aren't in the best place right now but you can't go accusing pts testers about killing the class, they can't even say anything in defense due to nda. They are not allowed to reveal anything that went down on there so you DONT KNOW. lol

 

I mean are you seriously trying to suggest that pts was full of guys going.. ye i think we should nerf sentinels till they are useless... ;_;

 

I mean a few of the people on this forum are on a blind temper tantrum without any actual reasonable thought tbh.

 

So Sentinels are in a bad place. Nothing has been said for upwards of five weeks about who screwed up, and you expect people to not speculate about what happened? Sorry, but you don't get to do that either say something relevant or don't complain about speculating when that is all we are able to do.

 

And please keep to the topic which is why people are asking for DT/CT back even thought it would do them almost no good with the current everyone but Mara/Sent has a free root break meta.

[Bonzenaattori]

Well people were probably whining endlessly about us having a ranged root, so they took it away and tried to replace it with something they thought was more manageable.

 

Whining that we have a ranged root? Do you realise every melee class has a ranged root?

 

I agree that sentinels aren't in the best place right now but you can't go accusing pts testers about killing the class, they can't even say anything in defense due to nda. They are not allowed to reveal anything that went down on there so you DONT KNOW. lol

 

I mean are you seriously trying to suggest that pts was full of guys going.. ye i think we should nerf sentinels till they are useless... ;_;

 

I mean a few of the people on this forum are on a blind temper tantrum without any actual reasonable thought tbh.

 

Can't comment at that without laughing

Edited January 12, 2015 by Bonzenaattori

[waterboytkd]

So Sentinels are in a bad place. Nothing has been said for upwards of five weeks about who screwed up, and you expect people to not speculate about what happened? Sorry, but you don't get to do that either say something relevant or don't complain about speculating when that is all we are able to do.

 

And please keep to the topic which is why people are asking for DT/CT back even thought it would do them almost no good with the current everyone but Mara/Sent has a free root break meta.

 

People are seriously unhappy with Sentinels, and the devs are dead silent on it, and you think it's the testers' fault? You do realize that things like Test Servers that go up a month out from release are a very late Beta thing, right? That the developers are looking to polish, and aren't looking to rework something from the ground up?

 

As for the ranged root: it's not meant to just hold them in place while you kill them. It's also meant to close the gap. Even if it holds them for only 1 second, it's long enough that you're on top of them again. Mission accomplished. Yes, there's counterplay to it, but it's far better to require them to use it on that than to not require them to use it at all.

 

EDIT: And he did say something relevant. You just missed it.

Edited January 12, 2015 by waterboytkd

[AngusFTW]

I am not standing up for the developers here... please don't get that impression.

 

What i am trying to say is.. blaming the TESTERS is illogcal... they don't have the magical influence you guys seem to think.. and we dunno what feedback they gave... and they can't give it out cause nda...

Edited January 13, 2015 by AngusFTW

[HanSollo]

I am not standing up for the developers here... please don't get that impression.

 

What i am trying to say is.. blaming the TESTERS is illogcal... they don't have the magical influence you guys seem to think.. and we dunno what feedback they gave... and they can't give it out cause nda...

 

I get that, and I am not blaming the testers either, but people screwed up somewhere and that needs to be noted and remembered. If the statement was made out of ignorance then factor that in and move on.

 

Do you want DT/CT back? If so why? Since the current meta would make it almost useless.

[K_osss]

There are two main issues with sentinels/marauders in my book right now.

 

1. Survivability

2. Mobility

 

I'd like the survivability fixed with changes to GbtF and transcendance personally but it needs to be addressed one way or the other.

 

The second issue is mobility. You've got 2 choices for mobility, either increase sentinel mobility or decrease other's. With the advent of 3.0 other classes got bigger mobility buffs while sentinels did not and in some cases lost mobility control (ie Crippling Throw). I personally would like Crippling Throw back for several reasons. It gives me another 10m ranged attack. It should be allowed to root possibly with a utility point. Leg slash is a terrible replacement for Crippling Throw. Laughably bad. Does it help our survivability not really - in fringe cases maybe you could root someone with Crippling Throw and then kill them quicker than they kill you but survivability is largely a seperate issue and needs to be addressed separately.

 

The other option for mobility is to give us some form of CC immunity or protection or breaker etc... Either option works but i'd still prefer to have a 10m ability than a 4m ability.

Edited January 13, 2015 by K_osss

[HanSollo]

There are two main issues with sentinels/marauders in my book right now.

 

1. Survivability

2. Mobility

 

I'd like the survivability fixed with changes to GbtF and transcendance personally but it needs to be addressed one way or the other.

 

The second issue is mobility. You've got 2 choices for mobility, either increase sentinel mobility or decrease other's. With the advent of 3.0 other classes got bigger mobility buffs while sentinels did not and in some cases lost mobility control (ie Crippling Throw). I personally would like Crippling Throw back for several reasons. It gives me another 10m ranged attack. It should be allowed to root possibly with a utility point. Leg slash is a terrible replacement for Crippling Throw. Laughably bad. Does it help our survivability not really - in fringe cases maybe you could root someone with Crippling Throw and then kill them quicker than they kill you but survivability is largely a seperate issue and needs to be addressed separately.

 

The other option for mobility is to give us some form of CC immunity or protection or breaker etc... Either option works but i'd still prefer to have a 10m ability than a 4m ability.

 

But that's the thing, Crippling Throw would not work on anyone that it was used on before since most of those classes have received the buffs you spoke about. Egress was only usable by Tanks for Inquisitor/Consular the rest of the Specs for that class did not have access to Egress before and Trooper/BH classes have HtL/HO so there is really no stopping either of those classes. GS/Scoundrel kill us before we can do anything. Guardians don't run since they have DCDs to kick our asses. The only people CT/DT will work on is us.

[K_osss]

Most of what you're really saying then is survivability is the main issue. I agree, survivability is the key issue to me, which is why I listed it first. Once that gets fixed then mobility get's more important. Even with Egress, HO, and Through Power/Consuming Rage etc... uptime isn't 100%. In fact, leg slash shares all those same problems with Crippling Throw. It's just inferior to Crippling Throw in every way other than it's spammable if you have the focus.

 

 

TLDR: fix survivability first and then Crippling Throw > Leg Slash.

Edited January 13, 2015 by K_osss