Dyvim Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Seriously...compare it to Serenity Shadow...basically its like taking the best parts of watchman (dots and dot spreading) and Combat (spike damage procs), improving the defenses, adding stealth, giving them better range, better cc's, AND all without a building resource mechanic (focus.rage). Its feast versus famine. And NO, I'm not saying nerf shadow, you yutz's... For example...Deflection vs Saberward...each classes two main DCDs...deflection is on a 2 minute timer, saber ward 3 minute...but each last 12 seconds...deflection has this utility called sturdiness, where for those 12 seconds, you are IMMUNE to just about all cc's. IMMUNE. This is exactly what sentinel needs...something that lets them stay on target to build focus, and go through a rotation for a flippin change, instead of cc-a-palooza as soon as I leap into range. Plus STEALTH...STEALTH and resilience and force cloak. Its like Force camo only 10x better. And it comes with spinning kick to cc and again get into your rotation largely uninterrupted...then there is always mind maze... DoT application...Force in Balance...spread DoTs from 30m away...Sever Force 30m range...Force Breach 10m range...what does watchman have to do to spread dots??? Build resource, get in range, hit with cauterize, force melt, then get a force sweep off....without getting hit by one of the 5 billion forms of cc in the game while you are trying to get the rotation off....a snowball has a better chance....and what is the damage bonus for having to overcome these melee constraints? NONE, they do the SAME DAMAGE pretty much... But what about Guarded by the Force??? Yeah, it doesn't give you any cc immunity, so basically, it is assisted suicide, where you take half your health away, while you are still stunned and just get to watch more enemy vfx weapon fire hit you for a few seconds until you finally die...all the while any heals you get are everything but a complete waste...probably the worst dcd in the game...I mean, its stupid bad... But what, Shadows are in light armor you say...yeah, except they have a utility trait that increases that by 30%...if you even feel you need to take it... I mean, it would be funny, if this wasn't all so true and glaring. Want to see what sentinels are complaining about? Want to see how to make it better? Play a Serenity Shadow. Basically my serenity shadow can double my sents damage...easy. And is a helluva lot more fun to play...oh yeah, and a 3 second precision window in this lagfest of a game is one of the stupidest design choices I've ever seen in 13 years of MMO play. Ever. Really. Its right up there with removing crippling throw...from a melee class...that has to compete with ranged classes...that have more cc than we do... We are stuck with cookie cutter builds now...no more hybrids...so where is this better ability to balance these classes at? Did it get lost somewhere in the blandness and lack of choice? Edited January 6, 2015 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themasterofevil Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 100% agree. Even though i don't play serenity, i play infiltration on my shadow. My shadow has 2018 exp just like my sentinel, yet my shadow can easily just eat people alive. I can't even play my sentinel anymore because the amount of cc and rooting in this game is so BS. Every other class in the game has some kind of cc/root or snare immunity except sentinel. Lets look at shadow: - They can grab a utility to get 100% cc immunity for 12 seconds on a 2 minute cooldown (which isnt very long) - They gain 100% Resistance to force/tech anything (including stuns) for 3 sec (or 5 if you have the talent point) on a 1min cooldown - Their force speed breaks and grants immunity to roots/snares for 1-1.5 seconds In no way am i either saying to nerf shadow, but rather comparing classes... Sentinel gets: - Bugged Expunging Camo, that does absolutely nothing - FleetFooted, which is useless because after you use trans, you're rooted/snared again And thats about it. The rest of sentinels utilities should just be implemented because you know, sent's utilities really suck. Lets look at one of the other "melee" classes, Powertech/VG: - Hold the line gives 45% EXTRA MOVEMENT SPEED! VG's literally speed run at you and you can't do anything about it except stun them, but most people are stupid and spam all their stuns within the first 10 seconds of any fight. So they're whitebarred. - Shoulder cannon deals massive amounts of damage (the 7 missile burst of death) at around 3-4 maybe 5k crits. And they have an ability to increase crit chance by 25%.. so in theory they can have 65% crit rating if they're base crit is 25% with 5% buff which makes it 30%. - 40m range harpoon/grapple - Adrenaline rush can be used while stunned and cleanses any stuns on yourself... - Tactics gains 25% increased defenses when they use sonic round Also, every other class has a self heal! Except sentinel of course. Watchman's 1% heal is so worthless. If zen didn't give me 100% burn crit then i would never use zen because healing for 6% is stupid because while im trying to heal that 6%, i just lost another 20-30% of my health. GBTF could use an upgrade or something to make it more balanced. Or they could turn it into some kind of selfheal like what Guardians/Juggs have? Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage Cooldown: 2m 30s Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage calls upon the power of the Force/the rage inside you, reducing incoming damage taken by 20% and healing you for 2350 every time you take damage. While you are guarded by the force/your rage is undying, healing received by outside sources is reduced by 50%. This ability cannot be used above 80% health. Lasts 6-8s. Then we could add some kind of talent point that grants CC immunity for the first 3 seconds (or more) of GBTF or UR. Or it could just be implemented into GBTF/UR. We could turn GBTF into some kind of reflect ability like what guardians/juggs have? That could help us close the gap on people like sorcs while sorcs sit there and spam lightning. Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage Cooldown: 1m 25s When activated, you reflect all incoming damage that is not AOE damage, back to the attacker. When attacked, the attacker also receives x amount of internal energy damage. You are also granted immunity to all snares/roots and CC for the first 3 seconds of the ability. This ability does not consume health. Lasts 6-8s Here's some ideas of how to make GBTF/UR not such an assisted suicide ability. Because as soon as you pop UR/GBTF, you're instantly stunned and i think giving us 3-5 seconds of CC immunity and snare immunity could really help. I mean, Jugg/Guardians get 4 seconds of complete cc immunity, why cant we get some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadtro Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) I know it is in the pvp forums but we have a thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=787395 More people notice that choosing a mar over a sin in pvp is now adding a disadvantage to your team. Edited January 6, 2015 by Zadtro Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzenaattori Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) 100% agree with this: Despite what arguements BW or any bandwagon Shadow/Assassin can conjure up. Sturdiness should've hands down been exclusive for Sentinels... NOT SHADOWS! This is a class that arbitrarily relied on their Shroud for Resisting cc's. When a gunslinger managed to cc a Shrouded Assassin with Flashbang, an ability that DOES NOT damage the target. Every Sin and Shadow flips **** and loses their mind. Despite the fact that the class' tooltip specifically says Resist Force and Tech DAMAGE, Flashbang itself doesn't inflict damage... now look at the backlash Flashbang for gunslingers got nerfed. Now being focused target instead of target aoe splash like Scoundrel/Operative. Which literally solves NOTHING but making a class without consistent DCD lose a desperation manuever. And then you bottle feed an already overweight fed class another "Quality of Life" that literally achieves nothing short of dropping metaphoric 30kg nappies all over the game and it's wonderfully broken combat system. Why does Bioware keep giving band-aids to a class with no cuts and bruises on it? Personally I don't like the idea of buffing GOTF/Undying I'd rather they buff Force Camoflauge, to make it so that activating abilities does not break its stealth. Where we have (+2)4 seconds of stealth that cannot be broken. Hmm... optimal 6 seconds stealth. Abilities dont break it. Precision, Master Strike + Finisher (storm, blast, dispatch), reposition Overload Saber, 4.5 second 3 global cd, for 3 stacks... reposition Sweep, Camo, Master Strike, Concentrated slash... reposition Doesn't require dumbfck stun immunity. Smart players can counter it with good reaction and brains creates unique situational utility for sentinel both defensively and aggresively. Without giving a mind-numbing cc-immunity because a class uses "WE'RE IN LIGHT ARMOR" as a viable excuse Edited January 6, 2015 by Bonzenaattori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavory Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I know it is in the pvp forums but we have a thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=787395 More people notice that choosing a mar over a sin in pvp is now adding a disadvantage to your team. There is a good argument being made that choosing ANY class over Hatred/Serenity is a disadvantage, including a tank and/or a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) There is a good argument being made that choosing ANY class over Hatred/Serenity is a disadvantage, including a tank and/or a healer. Wow, like I said, the best of watchman and combat...dot and burst, add in great cc, STEALTH, utility, and range... again, I would rather see other classes brought up...There are so many obvious ways to improve sent...especially combat sent... On a more general note, there is WAY too much CC in this game...it is ridiculous...anything that lessens it is a step in the right direction...melee classes that have to BUILD resource and maintain proximity to their target SHOULD BE INHERENTLY LESS SUSCEPTIBLE TO CC, otherwise you get the craptasm of imbalance we are seeing now... Edited January 7, 2015 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themasterofevil Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Wow, like I said, the best of watchman and combat...dot and burst, add in great cc, STEALTH, utility, and range... again, I would rather see other classes brought up...There are so many obvious ways to improve sent...especially combat sent... On a more general note, there is WAY too much CC in this game...it is ridiculous...anything that lessens it is a step in the right direction...melee classes that have to BUILD resource and maintain proximity to their target SHOULD BE INHERENTLY LESS SUSCEPTIBLE TO CC, otherwise you get the craptasm of imbalance we are seeing now... Yep.. With the amount of CC's in pvp, I wonder how people even play the game considering the game requires no skill for PVP anymore due to the amount of stunning. There is no way to even punish people that spam you with CC all game! The only thing you can do is roll one of these stupid mindless classes and play it. I play a sage on telekinetics and let me tell you. After 3.0, sage got even more OP and although i like playing my sage, they're stupidly OP. When i use my alacrity ability, i can kill someone in almost 6 GCD's. I also have a shadow. They were JUST FINE before 3.0 and now BW swoops in and is like: Oh right, because shadow was consistantly being CC'd out the ***, so lets just give them 12s of 100% CC immunity, +2 more sec of resilience, plus 90% slow on Spike/Kick. Oh right lets also give them 2s of shroud/resilience after cloaking. Oh and lets buff their burst even more. This is great and all, but you made a pretty good class into an OP trolling frenzy. Not that im saying nerf shadow or anything, just that sentinel needs to be on an equal playing field. I mean, if the devs ever played the game, i think they would see how crappy sentinel really is. I really love my sent, and he's my favorite class to play, but i can't really play him to the best of my abilities when im constantly Rooted, Snared, and CC'd the entire match. It's pretty sad that the game has come to where you can only play a few classes or else you can't really compete. And even though there are so many FOTM's right now, i still try and stick to classes that i love. Again though, can't really play sentinel when everything in pvp isn't about objectives, its about who can stun the most and get off the most stuns and roots and snares. Sentinels can stay on target pretty well, but transcendence shouldn't require fury/centering to use, because if you play watchman, you're losing SO MUCH DAMAGE by not using zen! And sure, we have 2 slows, 1 being a ranged 30m slow and another being a 4m slow. Thats good and all, but every class except sentinel has someway of breaking snares or roots. - Sniper/Slinger: Roll - Operative/Scoundrel: Roll and Dodge bubble and Cleanse - Shadow/Assassin: Force speed with utility and resilience - Sage/Sorc: Force speed with utility, Force barrier, And Cleanse - Guardians/Juggs: Enure with utility - Vanguards/Pts: OH/HTL - Mercs/Commandos: OH/HTL and Cleanse And what do sentinels have? - FleetFooted: Purges all roots and snares WHEN TRANSCENDENCE IS ACTIVATED. - Force camo purges roots and slows when speced into FleetFooted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadtro Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Sentinels can stay on target pretty well, but transcendence shouldn't require fury/centering to use, because if you play watchman, you're losing SO MUCH DAMAGE by not using zen! And sure, we have 2 slows, 1 being a ranged 30m slow and another being a 4m slow. Thats good and all, but every class except sentinel has someway of breaking snares or roots. - Sniper/Slinger: Roll - Operative/Scoundrel: Roll and Dodge bubble and Cleanse - Shadow/Assassin: Force speed with utility and resilience - Sage/Sorc: Force speed with utility, Force barrier, And Cleanse - Guardians/Juggs: Enure with utility - Vanguards/Pts: OH/HTL - Mercs/Commandos: OH/HTL and Cleanse And what do sentinels have? - FleetFooted: Purges all roots and snares WHEN TRANSCENDENCE IS ACTIVATED. - Force camo purges roots and slows when speced into FleetFooted... That is the big issue. We leap we then get kited or stuned, we need a utility to keep up with all the movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themasterofevil Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 That is the big issue. We leap we then get kited or stuned, we need a utility to keep up with all the movement. Yep. Also, most of the utilities/abilities other classes get give immunity for a duration while we only get a purge every so often. Also they could give sentinel something like what sins/shadows have? Deflection is basically saber ward without the 25% damage reduction. And transcendence needs to be moved from a raid buff to some kind of personal speed buff and remove centering/fury stacks and make it a cooldown. Cooldown: 50s Uses the force to grant you extra speed and defenses in battle. You gain 30-50% more movement speed and your defense chance is increased by 10-15%. During the first 3-5 seconds of transcendence, you are immune to all roots and snares, and cc times are reduced by 1 second. Something like this would be cool. And it would allow us to be dealing damage while keeping on target and not being cc'd as much? or whatever Force Determination Utility Point When Saber Ward is activated, you gain Force Determination, which makes you immune to CC's and grants you 10% additional movement speed. Forceful Bonding/Unjust Defiance Utility Point Clashing Blast/Devastating Blast, Concentrated Slice/Furious Strike, and Force Melt/Force Rend apply Forceful Bonding/Unjust Defiance on the target. This mark lasts up to 10 seconds and cannot occur more than once every 20 seconds. While marked, the target's accuracy is reduced by 20%. Only 1 mark can be applied at the same time. If Force Melt/Force Rend is spread to other targets, the primary target is still affected by Forceful Bonding/Unjust Defiance. Justified Relentlessness/Unstoppable Force Utility Point Twin Saber Throw grants Justified Relentlessness/Unstoppable Force which lasts for 10 seconds and grants immunity to roots, snares, hard stuns, knockbacks, and hinder effects. This effect cannot occur more than once every 24 seconds. Just a few ideas i came up with that could fix some of our problems :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olteron Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Want to see why a pistol sucks? compare it to bunker buster shell. While I agree with your argument that sents need work. The logic behind your title is flawed. Go ahead and rant at me. But that logic bugs me. You cant write off a class as being crap by comparing it to another class. I have yet to find an MMO out there that had perfect class balance. You will never get it. This month your crying. Next month another class is crying. Have fun. Forget balance. Learn to play with your strengths and weaknesses. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishbindeinvater Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Want to see why a pistol sucks? compare it to bunker buster shell. While I agree with your argument that sents need work. The logic behind your title is flawed. Go ahead and rant at me. But that logic bugs me. You cant write off a class as being crap by comparing it to another class. I have yet to find an MMO out there that had perfect class balance. You will never get it. This month your crying. Next month another class is crying. Have fun. Forget balance. Learn to play with your strengths and weaknesses. Just my 2 cents. says the hatred assassin ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramtar Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Want to see why a pistol sucks? compare it to bunker buster shell. While I agree with your argument that sents need work. The logic behind your title is flawed. Go ahead and rant at me. But that logic bugs me. You cant write off a class as being crap by comparing it to another class. I have yet to find an MMO out there that had perfect class balance. You will never get it. This month your crying. Next month another class is crying. Have fun. Forget balance. Learn to play with your strengths and weaknesses. Just my 2 cents. Comparing classes against other classes is the proper way to balance. IMO, Sentinel/Marauder have to be compared in 3 different areas: * Melee, how it stacks up against other Melee classes * Medium Armor, how it stacks up against other Medium Armor classes * Pure DPS, how it stacks up against other Pure DPs classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderbirdV Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) comparing classes against other classes is the proper way to balance. Imo, sentinel/marauder have to be compared in 3 different areas: * melee, how it stacks up against other melee classes - sucks * medium armor, how it stacks up against other medium armor classes - doesn't * pure dps, how it stacks up against other pure dps classes - miserably xxxxx Edited January 25, 2015 by ThunderbirdV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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