Nood Marauder (PvP) - Advice / Guidance?

[AizaTalzin]

I am a noob with my Carnage Marauder. I am a long time OP Healer and Guardian Tank pvper. I wanted a challenge and decided to truly focus on my Marauder in PVP over the past 5 days. Ive run into the same consistent issues; survivability and dps output.

 

Over the past five days I have done 50 pvp Warzones and Arenas ( I just finished my 50th match minutes ago). Warzones were 32 and Arenas were 18. I have been keeping close numbers on my young gent and they aren't pretty:

 

Warzones:

DPS Average of 32 Warzones: 119,738 damaged output over entire match.

Average Amount of Deaths: 16

Average Amount of Kills: 14

Notable Problems I am facing: AOE Attacks (which tear through me faster than I can flee), Sorcs, Assassins, and Snipers.

 

Arenas:

DPS Average of 18 Arenas: 22,729

Average Amount of Deaths: 2

Average Amount of Kills: 0 (thats right not a single kill in 18 matches)

Notable Problems I am facing: I get focused at the onset if my team does not have a healer. If we do, then I am focused second.

 

My issues is I hate seeing myself at the bottom of every warzone recap. Its embarrassing and I feel like I am letting my teammates down. Granted I know Marauders/Sentinels "struggle" in PVP. I also noticed there are some in this forum that brag about their sent/mara output damage and auto reply "its a learn to play issue". I firmly believe its a mix of L2P and issues with the mara/sent classes based on my experience thus far. I am truly trying to learn but without a pocket healer on their game I cannot get anything done over a sustained period. So yes I admit again I am 100% noob.

 

What I want to ask is there a simple rotation in pvp when I focus on a target that I can learn from and expand on? I studied Dulfys old guides and some others on the net but they tend to be geared towards PVE. I tried adapting those to pvp (for example not leaping into the fight immediately) and though Dulfy in particular had some pointers I still use, its not the best when it comes to pvp usage so I wanted to come to the source. Is there anyone here who is skilled or knowledgeable with their Marauder that can give me some tips so I can minimize how often I fail my teammates?

 

Notes about my Mara:

Level: 60

PVP Style: Solo Regs

Gear: Full Exhumed Weaponmasters (just need the two pvp relics now)

How often I get sworn at in a match for bad dps: One out of Three matches.

[VtTethias]

Are you wedded to carnage? Try Fury. The addition of an extra leap helps your mobility out quite considerably. You're still going to have a tough time solo queued because of survivability, though.

[AizaTalzin]

how much of a difference is fury from carnage? any tips of a potential rotation in a 1v1 scenario?

[Aluvi]

I don't want to be a downer, but every one of the best maras and sentinels have rerolled to another class as their main at this point. Mara / Sent is that bad off right now.

 

If you really enjoy the warrior, I would say play a Jugg or Guardian. They have 3 viable specs for pvp, and they all perform very well in the correct setting. Hell, they even can go hybrid tank and be OP as hell in solo queue.

[Aluvi]

I'll give you some advice. But first, I have to ask, do you click your abilities or keybind them all? If you aren't keybinding all of your abilities, and if you aren't used to using them, then you need to simply take the time to build up muscle memory to do your rotations properly, use defensive cooldowns properly, etc. This might take a few days, or a few weeks. If you have to learn keybinds from scratch, it could take a while, but if you can't do the basics, you are not ready to read the advanced stuff in here, and I guarantee you're going to get crapped on by better players.

 

Some general play tips:

 

-Use Force Camo or Predation to get out of roots and to let you keep up with Vanguards with their speed boost up.

-Always try to flank your enemy. They can't it you if you're behind them, and it makes hitting you with aoe effects and conal effects difficult.

-Remember that you can use Force Choke while moving now, so use it as a gap closer.

-Many sorcs use bubble stun again. You can use Precision + Dispatch + Clashing Blast to pop those bubbles from 10 meters so that you won't get stunned by it.

-Master Strike is like a huge "STUN ME / INTERRUPT ME / CC ME" sign. Only use it in a Precision window if you are sure you can get it off.

-Clashing Blast is up for every Precision Window. Dispatch and Master Strike are up for every other Precision Window. Ideally, you would rotation between Precision + Dispatch + CB and Precision + MS + CB, however, it is difficult to fit MS + CB into a Precision window. You have to "clip" the edge of your MS by .2 seconds to fit it in.

 

This is the hardest class in the game to master, and it is not in a good spot right now for PvP. It's entirely dependent on the rest of the group to do decent, and some matches (like Ancient Hypergate) you just won't do well vs a ranged team.

 

If you insist on playing Sent / Mara, you really need to play with a team and use some kind of voice communication. You need an amazing healer, and preferably a tank + another burst dps. Vanguard + Sent works very well.

 

Mark the important targets in the match, and agree upon a marking system before hand. For us, Tanks = Shield, Assassins = Gear (you want to know where they are at all times so that your nodes don't get ninjad), Healer = Target / Lightning, or they can also be a high priority dps if there are no enemy healers present, Vanguard = Fire, Snipers or Mercs can be Gun, DPS Warrior = saber. Another high priority dps is usually star.

 

Prioritizing targets is something that takes a long time to understand and just "get" intuitively. It's going to take practice. The gist of it is, you want to be focusing on the lowest hp / most vulnerable target to take them out quickly with huge burst (Vanguard + Combat set is super good burst). When you are on a target, call it out. Just quickly say "on Saber" or "on Target", or "Switching to lightning". And don't be afraid of calling the wrong target. Having focus fire on the wrong target is better than having split dps. In general, when someone pops their DCDs, you switch targets. You'll learn to expect when they will pop them, and you'll be ready to swtich to your next target ahead of time. You can even call out "Switch to X when he pops Cooldowns".

 

Also call out your CCs, interrupts etc. When you are killing a healer, when you interrupt a heal just say "kicked" or "interrupted" to let your other dps know that they should get the next interrupt if they can. If you are stunning, call out "hard stun".

 

Try to keep an eye on your healer, and don't be afraid to use Force camo to get out of a bad situation and retreat to your healer. Better to run and live to fight another day than to die and have to wait 30 seconds for respawn. If your healer is getting hit, they need to let you know so that you can help peel. Mara / Sent doesn't have a ton of peeling ability anymore since our root was removed, but if a dps is on YOUR healer, they are likely over extended and out of range of their own healer. This means that you can likely kill them with a good set of burst before their healer gets into range, and worst case scenario, you draw out their heals.

 

I could go on and on and on. From the sound of it, you need to master the basics if you're only putting out 100k damage on average per warzone, and it's going to be a long time before you are proficient enough at basic play to be able to look into some of this advanced stuff.

 

Keybind your stuff, get on a target dummy, and spend some time learning your binds until it is muscle memory.

[The_X]

My advice? Play a different class. I was Carnage main since the game launched. Now? I rarely play it. Its broken. Marauders are worthless in 60 PVP even against scrubs. Against a legit team or a premade? No chance.

[BurnedRemains]

My advice? Play a different class. I was Carnage main since the game launched. Now? I rarely play it. Its broken. Marauders are worthless in 60 PVP even against scrubs. Against a legit team or a premade? No chance.

This is simply not true. I find I am doing quite well even getting near top dps most matches. I've not abandoned the class at all.

[TheCourier-]

This is simply not true. I find I am doing quite well even getting near top dps most matches. I've not abandoned the class at all.

 

Marauder is awful right now. Getting top DPS on a marauder in a regular WZ does not mean that the class is okay. Marauders are extremely reliant on a healer specifically healing them, and that does not work well for PVP. A juggernaut and/or assassin do not have to heavily rely on a healer as much as a marauder does. No class in SWTOR is as reliant on healers as marauders are.

[BurnedRemains]

Marauder is awful right now. Getting top DPS on a marauder in a regular WZ does not mean that the class is okay. Marauders are extremely reliant on a healer specifically healing them, and that does not work well for PVP. A juggernaut and/or assassin do not have to heavily rely on a healer as much as a marauder does. No class in SWTOR is as reliant on healers as marauders are.

I'm not arguing that point at all. I'm simply saying I am not having trouble at this current time.

[Aluvi]

I'm not arguing that point at all. I'm simply saying I am not having trouble at this current time.

 

There are worse specs for pvp, but not many. A really amazing sent / mara is going to do decent no matter what. Yes, I get top damage every game still unless there is someone farming damage like sorc / assassin. However, those classes have a ton more utility than I do as well.

 

The thing is, I am worth so much more on my sage or shadow. More damage, taunts, self heals, less death, stealth node guarding, the ability to stealth / sap cap enemy nodes, better scoring ability in huttball, the list goes on and on.

 

What you have to remember is that the average player in this game is really really bad. Like horribly bad. A good player on a mara / sent can definitely out perform them simply via the virtue of being good. But against decent players, or measured up against decent players on your own team, you will fall short playing this class.

 

It can also be misleading because a good sent / mara will rip through bad players like tissue, very quickly. This is misleading because people mistake that for the mara / sent being a good class, when in fact it is just the difference between a skilled and unskilled player.

[Tulinof]

i am a warlord rank 91 and are prebeta my char are from pre day one.

 

and marauder have it bad right now .. i have full pvp gear and ranked weapons and trust me it sucks

 

my level 55 jugg with green gear due to 12x exp are geting 15+ medels as a tank spec i am lucky if i get 10 on my marauder .. and i know how to play , pre 3.0 in pve nr 1 of the dps 98% of the time in a HM / Nim guild

 

and in pvp its just a joke the problem is that no matter your shield or deff skils u have you are target 1 aasin will stun you are then u have 30 / 40 % health and sometimes 0 Rage .. it happes

 

my tank jugg EVER runs out off Rage in fact i don't even look at it anymore it full all the time.

 

last night i had 4-5 people hiting at me, and i am not going down.

 

i have to say when i se a sorc. for the most part they run away from me. i have 8% to Alac and it helps ALOT

as carnge spec but remmber you force camp is the key. when you play that spec.

 

but as soon as my jugg are level 60 ( my loved maraduer with so meny things gear pets mounts etc etc is going on pause ) :(

 

I think BW really always hated us. i don't felll the warrior in the class. when i picked the class back in the days it sad WARRIOR but where? i don't see it all .. i see it my jugg

 

i am more a sorc with 2 lightsabers with all the cool things a sorc have

[ishbindeinvater]

I do quite good in some warzones like huttball which is rarely crowded in 1 place. Those warzones are ok for a marauder because you can force cloak and run to the heal thing or fight 1:1 most times. I hate the wz with those pylons.

 

Tried carnage. Does not work for me. Too much cc and no immunity.

 

Annihilation does work ok for me try this out.you don't need to stay on target because you've got dots some of them you can deliver from range.

 

Still, it's a kind of insult playing marauder when you played a jugg before. Or any other class.

[BurnedRemains]

There are worse specs for pvp, but not many. A really amazing sent / mara is going to do decent no matter what. Yes, I get top damage every game still unless there is someone farming damage like sorc / assassin. However, those classes have a ton more utility than I do as well.

 

The thing is, I am worth so much more on my sage or shadow. More damage, taunts, self heals, less death, stealth node guarding, the ability to stealth / sap cap enemy nodes, better scoring ability in huttball, the list goes on and on.

 

What you have to remember is that the average player in this game is really really bad. Like horribly bad. A good player on a mara / sent can definitely out perform them simply via the virtue of being good. But against decent players, or measured up against decent players on your own team, you will fall short playing this class.

 

It can also be misleading because a good sent / mara will rip through bad players like tissue, very quickly. This is misleading because people mistake that for the mara / sent being a good class, when in fact it is just the difference between a skilled and unskilled player.

Just feels a little gimped not to much honestly. Guess I must be good at the class then. Just did this and came into the WZ late as well.

[ishbindeinvater]

Just feels a little gimped not to much honestly. Guess I must be good at the class then. Just did this and came into the WZ late as well.

 

You had good healers keeping you up. Marauder is probably one of the better classes in combination with a healer, but the worst right now without. And of course, you must be a quite good player too.

[SlimGenre]

You had good healers keeping you up. Marauder is probably one of the better classes in combination with a healer, but the worst right now without. And of course, you must be a quite good player too.

 

agree on this. I've been a pvp junkie and assassin since I joined the game just before Hutt Cartel came out, and right when I get a ridiculous buff in 3.0 I, for some reason decide to start playing more on my sentinel in pvp? Glutton for punishment I suppose.

 

Anyway, yes mara/sent NEEDS a good healer. One trick I've learned, the more often I pop transcendence/predation, the more likely i am to get heals. That's one trick, everyone loves the speed boost, and your healers will want to keep you in there if you're doing it all the time. You'll do more damage the longer you stay in there, even if you sacrifice your solo buff for one that benefits your whole team. I'm probably half geared in exhumed now, still rolling on combat and averaging about 400k dps per round, so i'm happy thus far, nothing like the mil + i put out with my far better geared assassin, but everyone needs a change, right?

 

I'll be playing around with the other specs more too, but the flow of combat (middle tree, cant remember what it's called for mara) just feels the most natural for me.

 

I will be honest though, I do miss the smashmonkey we used to have, but hatred sin/sorc is the new smashmonkey, so it'll get changed too.

[Ottoattack]

OP, as someone who mains PT and plays also sorc and sin, do not play carnage marauder. The shortening of gore window, removal of root and lack of reliable root breakers make it near impossible to play without a baby sitter (aka pocket healer). I would advice leaving marauder to either jugg or sin if melee is your thing. Jugg is much more suvivable with ton of utilities and sin deals gazillion more damage. If you insist on marauder, just do not use carnage. Fury and annihilation perform better now a days.

[Vodrin]

There are worse specs for pvp, but not many. A really amazing sent / mara is going to do decent no matter what. Yes, I get top damage every game still unless there is someone farming damage like sorc / assassin. However, those classes have a ton more utility than I do as well.

 

The thing is, I am worth so much more on my sage or shadow. More damage, taunts, self heals, less death, stealth node guarding, the ability to stealth / sap cap enemy nodes, better scoring ability in huttball, the list goes on and on.

 

What you have to remember is that the average player in this game is really really bad. Like horribly bad. A good player on a mara / sent can definitely out perform them simply via the virtue of being good. But against decent players, or measured up against decent players on your own team, you will fall short playing this class.

 

It can also be misleading because a good sent / mara will rip through bad players like tissue, very quickly. This is misleading because people mistake that for the mara / sent being a good class, when in fact it is just the difference between a skilled and unskilled player.

 

This pretty much nails it. You can do ok on a sent/mara right now, especially in regs, but you could do much better than ok on a sin/shadow, sorc/sage, or jug/guardian.

[FerrixWGW]

Engagement timing is extremely important now. If you jump in too early, you'll draw too much attention. Force camo if focused, take the AE dmg reduction utility & longer faster camo to get out of focused & AE situations. Use force choke & camo to lolololol @ hydraulic overrides.

 

With our struggles to stay on target with all the snares & roots try annihilation. DoT spread your two Dots, and when you are rooted at least you have DoTs ticking while you are closing the gap again or camo'd avoiding/abs'ing enemy DoTs.

 

Marauders take timing & situational awareness to play well, especially after 3.0, just play as many wzs as you can and while your respawning, review each fight in your head and figure out what should have been done better.

[Ld-Siris]

I still main carnage and I see there is some good feed back. I will say this tho. You should play carnage differently now than pre 3.0. You should no long gore ravage for three reasons. 1) every other class has some kind of duration root immunity and will slide right out of it. 2) ravage dmg has been heavily nerfed. The 3rd tic in a gore window only hits for about 7k now vice before it was 12k. 3) Gore's window is a lot shorter and it is a lot harder to fit it in, especially with all the lag.

 

Your rotation now should be to ravage now just get the auto crit on your vicious throw from you 6 piece set bonus. Then massacre and battering assault. Once you have both your procs for devastating blast and vicious throw, then use gore with DB and VT. My DB in a gore just for about on adv 13-14k and VT is 11-12k

 

If you do that you should notice a huge leap in DPS. My dps in all the war zones this far are right up there with hatred sins/madness sorcs. In fact just had a game yesterday where I hand 1.39 mil and the only one above me was a hatred sin with 1.41mil. Carnage is doable. You just need to play smart. Definitely it is the hardest class and spec to play at the moment.

 

I also made a little video guide here:

Edited January 1, 2015 by Ld-Siris

[Vodrin]

I still main carnage and I see there is some good feed back. I will say this tho. You should play carnage differently now than pre 3.0. You should no long gore ravage for three reasons. 1) every other class has some kind of duration root immunity and will slide right out of it. 2) ravage dmg has been heavily nerfed. The 3rd tic in a gore window only hits for about 7k now vice before it was 12k. 3) Gore's window is a lot shorter and it is a lot harder to fit it in, especially with all the lag.

 

Your rotation now should be to ravage now just get the auto crit on your vicious throw from you 6 piece set bonus. Then massacre and battering assault. Once you have both your procs for devastating blast and vicious throw, then use gore with DB and VT. My DB in a gore just for about on adv 13-14k and VT is 11-12k

 

If you do that you should notice a huge leap in DPS. My dps in all the war zones this far are right up there with hatred sins/madness sorcs. In fact just had a game yesterday where I hand 1.39 mil and the only one above me was a hatred sin with 1.41mil. Carnage is doable. You just need to play smart. Definitely it is the hardest class and spec to play at the moment.

 

This guy has some good advice, although I still gore to devastating blast sometimes, but this is mostly when the target is distracted or when I can force choke them to make them eat the whole thing.

[Ld-Siris]

This guy has some good advice, although I still gore to devastating blast sometimes, but this is mostly when the target is distracted or when I can force choke them to make them eat the whole thing.

 

I take it you mean you still gore ravage sometimes?

 

I do sometimes as well but only in small certain situations.