Pathlight- Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I'm not usually one to call for nerfs but PT's AP burst is completely imbalanced at the moment. It needs a serious tone down very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanchito Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 they seem pretty balanced to me if you compare them to sorcs and sins my balance fix would be: 1) remove force storm crit / surge buff from lightning sorc tree 2) reduce dot spread damage for sins and sorcs (like dots do 50% of damage on the targets they were spread to) 3) Make shoulder cannon respect the gcd Might not fix everything but a lot of the big issues atm would be fixed like this, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega_Fallos Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) man, I have all classes excluding powertech only, but i have play with powertechs and vs powertechs in arena's, normal wz's. Powertech don't need nerf, I'm sure 100%. learn to play your class. Edited December 20, 2014 by Mega_Fallos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Powertechs do not need a nerf, they need a complete redesign. Right now pt is some sort of hybrid ranged/melee dps with good passive defensives that are weak in the current meta, but makes up for with a simple rotation and the best lol burst in the game. Edited December 20, 2014 by alexsamma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Powertechs do not need a nerf, they need a complete redesign. Right now pt is some sort of hybrid ranged/melee dps with good passive defensives that are weak in the current meta, but makes up for with a simple rotation and the best lol burst in the game. lol I actually took the extra utility that turns my tactics into a full blown ranged (but I sacrificed super speed HTL). basically, I just need you close for a gcd to apply armor debuff and bleed. everything else is like 15-30m. it's pretty stupid. all of that said, I cannot believe they didn't at least fix the ICD on shoulder cannon with that last patch. I thought for sure it was a bug. you have to fix that before you can assess this AC's output at all. All troopers/BHs need redesigned DCDs. especially if you're going to have sins running around immune to stuns and with all the big burst in 3.0. the fact of the matter is trinity matches are the exception rather than the norm (in my experience), so each AC needs to have something to keep them sturdy on their own. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilk Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Two of my AP friends said their shoulder cannon said missiles can be launched every .5 seconds. But mine says 1 second. Not really sure what is up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaladan Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 they need a nerf or at least change the broken utilities (for hydraulic and shoulder canon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirMannii Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 They are fine. Only thing that needs nerf is "Hold the Line/Hydraulic Override", the speedbuff AND the amount of time they actually can use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Chrome Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 i have been following all the conversations about Vanguards for awhile, and i have a hard time wondering why people have a problem with the new HTL talents we get...with scamper and force speed with egress talent Leaps with roots out there... dont you think that those escapes need a counter? dont you think that something should be able to chase all those fools down?...who run away "H2F" and come back instead of dying like they should have done before they hit the speedboost? prior to 3.0 the most frustrating thing i had to deal with as a VG was 75% of classes running away just before they were about to die and immune to CC or pulls so they get away! Now Finally VG have a way to catch you and you are mad about it??? "but Shoulder cannon is OP!!! and the burst is insane!" right shoulder cannon is bugged even the .5 second ICD is broken... i agree it can unload alot of burst every minute and a half.... and sometimes if you are unprepared or undergeared it can kill you super fast along with all of our other abilites. but lets be honest Vanguards havent been scary since 1.2... no one ever said oh no its an ALL VG comp we gonna lose before now.... now that VG finally are competitive with guardians and sages and shadows lets nerf them hard especially after moving in the right direction for scoundrel DPS becoming more durable(i think they are pretty good right now). how about we buff Commandos and Sentinels to the point of viability. and we can say that all classes are actually balanced (almost) IMHO people complained about sages and shadows and guardians for SOO Long that Bioware , instead of nerfing them horribly... gave them a counter... and its the vanguard... we still die fast and we still have the second worst defensive cooldowns in the game and i dont mind! let them fix the ICD on SC and then move on from there...but imho once they fix that ability VG will be right on par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 You can't balance a class around PVP, especially not Solo ranked where they're a particular problem. The issue most have is 4 dps games, and rightly so. A powertech can global anyone unprepared, and still do decent damage and survive for long enough to take out the rest, a good PT can make any game a 3v4. But balancing around good players in solo queue is kind of laughable. They have good burst and a good opener, after that they're fine. Inquisitors/Consulars, both AC's are the worrying ones. To say which is better is really only to debate whether pressure dps or burst dps are better, but that's not the point. I think the only change actually needed is the ridiculous 0.5s ICD on shoulder canon, that should stabilise them fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 i have been following all the conversations about Vanguards for awhile, and i have a hard time wondering why people have a problem with the new HTL talents we get...with scamper and force speed with egress talent Leaps with roots out there... dont you think that those escapes need a counter? dont you think that something should be able to chase all those fools down?...who run away "H2F" and come back instead of dying like they should have done before they hit the speedboost? prior to 3.0 the most frustrating thing i had to deal with as a VG was 75% of classes running away just before they were about to die and immune to CC or pulls so they get away! Now Finally VG have a way to catch you and you are mad about it??? "but Shoulder cannon is OP!!! and the burst is insane!" right shoulder cannon is bugged even the .5 second ICD is broken... i agree it can unload alot of burst every minute and a half.... and sometimes if you are unprepared or undergeared it can kill you super fast along with all of our other abilites. but lets be honest Vanguards havent been scary since 1.2... no one ever said oh no its an ALL VG comp we gonna lose before now.... now that VG finally are competitive with guardians and sages and shadows lets nerf them hard especially after moving in the right direction for scoundrel DPS becoming more durable(i think they are pretty good right now). how about we buff Commandos and Sentinels to the point of viability. and we can say that all classes are actually balanced (almost) IMHO people complained about sages and shadows and guardians for SOO Long that Bioware , instead of nerfing them horribly... gave them a counter... and its the vanguard... we still die fast and we still have the second worst defensive cooldowns in the game and i dont mind! let them fix the ICD on SC and then move on from there...but imho once they fix that ability VG will be right on par. HTL has to much uptime and does too much for a class that is basically a ranged class at this point, and honestly the classes that have the biggest issue with htl/ho are melee classes, not ranged classes. VG/PT is broken at a very fundamental level, simple nerfs to specific abilities are not going to fix this, BW needs to decide on what they want to this class to be and then start from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Just reread your post... you pretty much lost any credibility when you said "now that VG finally are competitive with guardians and sages and shadows" Lol Edited December 20, 2014 by alexsamma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Lol, Powertechs and Vanguards are NOT OP. People are just butt hurt that they are actually viable using tactics and (whatever the pt equivalent is) in pvp now and get a speed boost like all the other cqc classes. If anything sins and shadows are STILL the most op classes cuz they have abilities to become COMPLETELY immune to all forms of cc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Lol, Powertechs and Vanguards are NOT OP. People are just butt hurt that they are actually viable using tactics and (whatever the pt equivalent is) in pvp now and get a speed boost like all the other cqc classes. If anything sins and shadows are STILL the most op classes cuz they have abilities to become COMPLETELY immune to all forms of cc. do you have any idea how inane what you just said sounds and on how many levels it sounds that way? AP/tactics was fotm s1 and was "broken" in that it could tank in full dps spec. that means 3 FULL dps and still a guard in arenas.saying that now AP/tactics is finally viable is a goddamn joke, and you know it. all they did was swap core abilities with the old pyro tree. AP/tactics is as "unviable" as it was before 3.0. it's just called plasmatech now. spec'ing into super speed HTL is fine. if you do that, you sacrifice range, defense, or breaker abilities. and frankly, I think all these various speed boosts are a joke anyway. they've always been a joke. anything other than a consular/inquis force speed is over the top, imo. but as long as everyone else can basically port 30m, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I think anyone with half a brain can agree that the ICD on AP/tactics is broken and needs to be lengthened. I also think that I'm not overstepping the bounds of reason to state that until this is done, it's impossible to assess where the spec is in terms of balance. I continued to be greatly annoyed that BW gives some classes escapes and hard (absolute) checks to dmg while other classes only have DRs, which can be burst through. what's good for the goose is good for the gander. the gander is waiting impatiently.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) do you have any idea how inane what you just said sounds and on how many levels it sounds that way? AP/tactics was fotm s1 and was "broken" in that it could tank in full dps spec. that means 3 FULL dps and still a guard in arenas.saying that now AP/tactics is finally viable is a gosh darn joke, and you know it. all they did was swap core abilities with the old pyro tree. AP/tactics is as "unviable" as it was before 3.0. it's just called plasmatech now. spec'ing into super speed HTL is fine. if you do that, you sacrifice range, defense, or breaker abilities. and frankly, I think all these various speed boosts are a joke anyway. they've always been a joke. anything other than a consular/inquis force speed is over the top, imo. but as long as everyone else can basically port 30m, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I think anyone with half a brain can agree that the ICD on AP/tactics is broken and needs to be lengthened. I also think that I'm not overstepping the bounds of reason to state that until this is done, it's impossible to assess where the spec is in terms of balance. I continued to be greatly annoyed that BW gives some classes escapes and hard (absolute) checks to dmg while other classes only have DRs, which can be burst through. what's good for the goose is good for the gander. the gander is waiting impatiently.... You can still spec into the speed boosts and spec into defense a bit, its only 2 utility points, I know it is still not on par with other classes :cough: assassins :cough: but it is much better than it previously was. Edited December 20, 2014 by mmmbuddah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acteaon Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 VG and PT is abit Overpowered. a VG/PT can burst my 42k+ hp away in seconds on my Guardian in pvp even when i am fully expertise geared. They realy need to make a few changes to it since that burst is just insane and unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bob- Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Waaaah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) VG and PT is abit Overpowered. a VG/PT can burst my 42k+ hp away in seconds on my Guardian in pvp even when i am fully expertise geared. They realy need to make a few changes to it since that burst is just insane and unbalanced. Guardian is one of the better classes to fight an AP PT right now, though. Saber Reflect: watch as the PT kills himself, /lol. However, if it is on cooldown, then yes, I'm pretty sure that burst will eat through your enraged defense stuff. Edited December 20, 2014 by QuiveringPotato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battosei Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 i think devs should be fired and they will be remplaced by real competent employeed, they killing PVP by their **** works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScytheEleven Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 PT/VG's are fine. Yes, their burst is killer...however, there's a reason we are typically focused first: we are squish. Seriously. PT/VG are the 3rd easiest kill right now. I'd say Mercs/Mando's are number 1, and Operatives/Scoundrels are #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) PT/VG's are fine. Yes, their burst is killer...however, there's a reason we are typically focused first: we are squish. Seriously. PT/VG are the 3rd easiest kill right now. I'd say Mercs/Mando's are number 1, and Operatives/Scoundrels are #2.BW simply hates us troopers / bounty hunters. Edited December 20, 2014 by mmmbuddah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzMeshurik Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Stil waiting for SC ICD fix BW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishbindeinvater Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 PT players say it's fine Not PTS players say it's OP As always. I play all of them and PT in PVP is really OP. I would add a ICD to shoulder cannon, but still off GCD. Then let's see. Explosive fuel plus shoulder cannons plus the rest of the burst skills no class stands a chance, it just happens too fast. It's not even funny to play such an OP spec. Try out marauder and then tell me about PT is fine... And assassins have just a lot of fluff damage. Deception is just as always, but probably weaker than before because of the higher health pools. Hatred has high numbers but half of that is fluff. But it probably comes second as OP because it's a stealth class, otherwise 2nd place would go to sorc. Some tweaks here and there and it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 PT players say it's fine Not PTS players say it's OP As always. I play all of them and PT in PVP is really OP. I would add a ICD to shoulder cannon, but still off GCD. Then let's see. Explosive fuel plus shoulder cannons plus the rest of the burst skills no class stands a chance, it just happens too fast. It's not even funny to play such an OP spec. Try out marauder and then tell me about PT is fine... And assassins have just a lot of fluff damage. Deception is just as always, but probably weaker than before because of the higher health pools. Hatred has high numbers but half of that is fluff. But it probably comes second as OP because it's a stealth class, otherwise 2nd place would go to sorc. Some tweaks here and there and it's fine. sins are immune to ccs pretty much all the time, they are not , by any measure, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishbindeinvater Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) sins are immune to ccs pretty much all the time, they are not , by any measure, fine. They can give that skill to marauders. They would need that. This skill isn't that OP. It's on a 3 minute CD, and I don't need it that much. When I am focused this skill won't help me to survive and in a 1:1 I don't need it either. I would not miss it! Edit: what do you mean all the time? Edited December 20, 2014 by ishbindeinvater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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