Why does the Knight seem to advance so relatively slowly in rank?

[dcaleb]

I'd say that Anakin 'slaughter the younglings' Skywalker is worse then what the dark side consular does. Especially if you assume that he also killed several full grown jedi off screen while he was in there like some of the EU material suggests.

[Darth_Wicked]

I'd say that Anakin 'slaughter the younglings' Skywalker is worse then what the dark side consular does. Especially if you assume that he also killed several full grown jedi off screen while he was in there like some of the EU material suggests.

 

As I said earlier, doubtful.

The moment you choose to kill "Parkanas", dozens of Jedi throughout the galaxy die instantly. Not even Vader on his own kills that fast.

 

Edited December 19, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Kyrrant]

Here's the thing, though.

 

 

Killing Parkanus will definitely kill several Jedi, indeed. It will also definitely stop the threat, limiting the damage to a comparative handful of Jedi.

 

Meanwhile, trying the Force technique on Parkanus, it's not so certain, not at all. Maybe it will save the day and everyone infected, including Parkanus... or maybe it will fail, and the last hope for stopping the threat will die with it.

 

 

The latter is the Jedi thing to do, no question. But the former... its not neccessarily evil, depending on the Jedi. It could be considered an ugly, horrific pragmatic choice... but maybe also the correct one.

 

Still, there should have been consequences for the LS path. I know, I know, you can't nerf the player for teh whole thing... but you could make the fight against the boss a lot harder if you went Dark Side previously without affecting PvP gameplay.

 

Its like with the end of the Act 2 with the Jedi Knight story...

 

 

What I would've liked would be to have the Jedi Knight start out Act 3 mind controlled, with Scourge as your minder as you run through Belsavis. Do what was done with teh Agent storyline in Act 2, making the dialog wheel say what the character would WANT to say... and have it overwhelmed by the Emperor's control.

 

And, of course, put in some BS about how the JK needs to act all super nice for the other Republic peeps, to explain why you're still doing pro-Republic stuff on Belsavis. Show the Emperor's power and control, and make the Knight's ability to break free seem like a strong will finally breaking through, and not just five minutes under his control and then you're free.

 

 

This is the reason why the best story, hands down, is the Agent one. It took risks, tried new things, pushed the boundaries of what could be done in the format... and delivered something excellent. It wasn't successful 100% of the time, but it never felt like it was being held back by the format, a problem that hit the JK and JC stories way too much .

[Darth_Wicked]

This is the reason why the best story, hands down, is the Agent one. It took risks, tried new things, pushed the boundaries of what could be done in the format... and delivered something excellent. It wasn't successful 100% of the time, but it never felt like it was being held back by the format, a problem that hit the JK and JC stories way too much.

 

Deus Ex did most of the stuff the Imperial Agent story did, and in a far superior fashion truth be told.

 

Some stuff even feels almost verbatim.

 

I am also a fan of the Agent story mind you, but the way people go on about it feels nauseating at times. During chapter three, the suspension of disbelief required is awkward at times.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Kyrrant]

Deus Ex did most of the stuff the Imperial Agent story did, and in a far superior fashion truth be told.

 

Some stuff even feels almost verbatim.

 

I am also a fan of the Agent story mind you, but the way people go on about feels nauseating at times. During chapter three, the suspension of disbelief required is awkward at times.

 

Oh, no question, act 3 of the Agent story pushes things a bit too much... but at least it was trying.

 

I haven't played Deus Ex, sadly enough (every time I try these days, the aged mechanics and REALLY aged graphics just hamstring the experience), so I can't speak to the amount of comparison... but its an old line that just about every story's been told already, the only difference is HOW it gets told.

 

Even if the Agent story lifts major story elements and themes from Deus Ex... its not Deus Ex. It's not a single player FPS with a self-contained story, its one of eight class stories in an MMORPG, a genre not well known for its storytelling ability.

 

That it was able to create an appealing story at all, given the limitations of the MMORPG medium, deserves that praise. In this context, that's why I'm praising it, because it could get that story across well, pushing past the limitations that hobbled the JK and JC stories... and all the other ones, too.

[Darth_Wicked]

Even if the Agent story lifts major story elements and themes from Deus Ex... its not Deus Ex. It's not a single player FPS with a self-contained story, its one of eight class stories in an MMORPG, a genre not well known for its storytelling ability.

 

I am not sure where you are trying to go with this to be honest.

 

Aside the possibility to group for other quests, having played every single Class Story quite extensively, they pretty much play the EXACT same way as they do in any other solo game.

 

You just have the possibility to group for other stuff, again, assuming we're merely discussing the Class Stories themselves and their format.

 

That it was able to create an appealing story at all, given the limitations of the MMORPG medium, deserves that praise. In this context, that's why I'm praising it, because it could get that story across well, pushing past the limitations that hobbled the JK and JC stories... and all the other ones, too.

 

They should be praised for creating eight UNIQUE stories within the MMO genre. The fact it was an RPG, given it's a Bioware game, is a no-brainer I guess.

 

That was the game's main selling point, in addition to the SW setting.

 

Regardless, as I mentioned earlier, it still plays like your standard solo game if you wish. You're doing too much ado over nothing IMHO.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[jovianus]

You seem to be deflecting the issue, namely the mere possibility that the Consular could, hypothetically, go down in history as the greatest Jedi mass murderer in history, in one millisecond.

 

Judging from your earlier posts, plus your rage about the Jedi Knight being a Special Snowflake, while the Consular in fact is NOT -- apparently -- this is not surprising.

 

This, in addition to the fact you claimed that killing "Parkanas" would only kill the Jedi Masters, which was untrue.

 

You seem to be deflecting the issue that the Council itself explicitly tells the Consular not to take any chances in trying to save Parkanas. And that while it it will cost lives, the Dark Side option is ultimately a permanent end to the threat of the plague because Morrhages spirit is destroyed. Meanwhile the LS option saves lives now but only temporary resolves the plague, because Morrhage survives to find another Force user to corrupt.

 

And in any case my complaint about the JK is not about individual decisions and apparent lack of consequences, which as you've noted is common to all classes. It's about the whole overwrought theme of the story.

 

By the end of Act 1 the Consular has managed to protect 6 out of some hundreds of plagued Jedi, and manages to defeat the plaguemaster, whether temporarily or permanently. .

 

By the end of the JK Act 1 he's saved 3 planets, prevented the crippling of the Republic, taken a Padawan, confronted the Emperor and redeemed one of his Children, and been told by Satele that the fate of the Jedi, the Republic, and the entire galaxy depends on him.

 

Sorry, but there's no comparing the JK's special snowflake status to...really any other class story.

 

Who says that again?

 

IIRC a Master you encounter sometime in Act 2.

Edited December 20, 2014 by jovianus

[Kyrrant]

By the end of the JK Act 1 he's saved 3 planets, prevented the crippling of the Republic, taken a Padawan, confronted the Emperor and redeemed one of his Children, and been told by Satele that the fate of the Jedi, the Republic, and the entire galaxy depends on him.

 

What I think saves the Jedi Knight story is that... s/he fails.

 

Sure, s/he saves a bunch of planets, including Tython (twice, sorta)... but s/he's too late to save one world, arrives too late, wasn't fast enough, and see's an entire world utterly devastated by a weapon they were unable to destroy in time.

 

Maybe it needed a bit more focus and exploration, but that they fail and a massive number of people are dead helps a great deal. And it builds towards the Leeroy Jenkins failure at the end of Act 2.