[BUG] All tank stances are lowering damage dealt by 20% instead of the listed 10%

[revcrisis]

Any word on if this bug will be fixed? Edited January 5, 2015 by revcrisis

[howieloader]

How has this not been addressed???

[Jonathanx]

Oh crap at first I was going to say why the hell you would report this wouldn't you want the damage received to be as high as possible till I reread it and realized you said damage output. I hope they fix it I don't have any threat issues but I get off to being able to provide valuable dps with solid tanking.

[Cortimi]

Just a couple screens to highlight this on Juggernaut.

 

With Soresu Form:

http://jan.imghost.us/9Tk0.jpg

 

Without Soresu Form:

http://jan.imghost.us/9TlC.jpg

 

Using the lowest possible value of the two Assault skills and the correct formula for the difference between two inegers, we see the following:

V1 = 1065 and V2 = 1315

( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100

= ( | 1065 - 1315 | / ((1065 + 1315)/2) ) * 100

= ( | -250 | / (2380/2) ) * 100

= ( 250 / 1190 ) * 100

= 0.210084 * 100

= 21.0084% difference

 

All other skill values follow the same trend.

 

I get the feeling the combat team will answer something like:

 

"Following internal testing, the team decided to not implement the change as they were happy with where it was when using high end level 60 gear.

 

With that being said, we are happy with DPS numbers as they are right now and therefore have no plans currently to adjust tank stances. As always we will continue to monitor DPS and will make changes as needed.".

 

They will say that, but we all know the real reason is because it is easier to just change to tooltip to state %20 rather than change the math on the skill itself.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Cortimi

[Cortimi]

Update: To make matters worse, the Fuel Additives utility also DOES NOT WORK for Ion Gas Cylinder on Powertech. Don't bother wasting the utility point, Ion Cylinder STILL reduces damage by %20.

My Primary Damage at my level and gear is 1188-1650.

Base attack (Rapid Shots) w/ Ion Cylinder: 962-1336

Base Attack (Rapid Shots) W/O Ion Cylinder: 1188-1650

 

This is with the same gear, simply switching cylinders. The values are exact same with and without the Fuel Additives utility.

 

This is what makes it all hilarious:

"The team is actively discussing taking Retaliation/Riposte off the GCD. Normally, we do not want damage abilities to be off the GCD, however, both the Shield Tech/Shield Specialist and Darkness Assassin/Kinetic Combat Shadow already have major rotation skills (Dark Ward/Kinetic Ward and Heat Blast/Energy Blast) off the GCD. If these changes are made, we will definitely readdress the current changes to the Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian.

 

To those confused by the Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian changes: We found that the Discipline was not performing to our DPS goals for tanks. "

 

Have ya thought about fixing them rather than changing yet even more?

Edited January 13, 2015 by Cortimi

[Aieranda]

I'm concerned by the silence on this issue while they actively engage in skill by skill changes on 3.1 PTS and the feedback threads they've started. These things include changes to the damage profile and statements that would inherently imply they are treating the existing damage profiles as the models upon which to make new decisions.

 

I realize I can just taunt to win back threat, but this is starting to get a little pressing in a couple fights where extra taunts aren't available due to mechanics or where you need to correct a mistake made by another tank or player. Lowering damage would just push that line further. It just doesn't seem wise.

 

I am generally not a fan of the other new design challenges to tanks, which appears to be an increasing amount of bosses with seemingly endless knockbacks/downs, lifts, and stuns that are not avoidable, not able to be countered or interrupted by any of your skills, or not able to broken by your stun break. It's just not fun for me to spend half of a fight flat on my tail and forcibly having threat removed because of scripted stuns, scripted threat drops, and scripted stuns plus threat drop combinations. So piling more damage nerfs on top of the current apparent design philosophy for challenging tanks makes the game just not fun for me to tank anymore.

 

Maybe they wonder why there are not enough tanks in their game. Maybe they should realize that spending a bunch of time out of control of your character and unable to use active skills to counter the things that rob you of that control is quite possibly NOT fun. Continuously being challenged for active control of your character in a manner that prevents you from doing your job to hold threat is quite possibly NOT fun. Doing less and less damage as your character grows or moves through new content cycles is quite possibly NOT fun. At least not for me. I'm sure plenty of folks that can't stand to see a critical word against EA/BW, or who are somehow entertained by the seeming challenge this design creates will argue that it is just fine and that it actually is very fun for them. That's fine. They can think that. It is their right to have an opinion too. But they can't convince me that I'm supposed to be having fun tanking when I'm very certainly not having fun tanking.

 

I can only imagine the uproar if numerous no-counter, unbreakable stuns forced DPS into the same situation. It used to be very challenging with no recourse for DPS with all the new movement fights, especially for turret-style DPS. I know. I played Gunnery. I played Lightning. It lowered my DPS to break off channels because of scripted/forced moves. But now, with all the movement based utilities for DPS to mitigate that, the movement fights are a load of fun for them. They get an ability that lets them counter and respond to a game mechanic when confronted with it. Meanwhile, the tank is figuring out where to best restart their rotation when the latest no-counter, unbreakable stun or knockdown ends.

[Vaidinah]

I'm fairly sure that the issue here is that the tooltips are wrong and the actual damage reduction is correct as it lowers damage by 10%, not 20%. Based on all the posts on this thread, I don't see any proof of this working incorrectly for the damage itself.

 

I'd rather not test every single skill all the tanks have, but I know for a fact that on my Juggernaut tank, Force Choke deals the correct damage to a dummy with no modules used on both crits and non-crits (though I tested mostly with non-crits). In Soresu form, it was 301 damage per tick and with no stance at all and nothing else changed, it was 334. This is a 10% difference. Force Choke is a good example because the damage values don't have a range like most other damage skills do.

 

Under the same conditions, I tested my Assassin. I used Depradating Volts without any Harnessed Darkness stacks since it also does static damage. It was 994 with tank stance (Dark Charge) and 1104 without any stance. This is also a 10% difference.

 

Lastly, I checked my Vanguard with the same results. I used Ion Storm since it does static damage. It was 1562 with tank stance and 1735 without any stance. This is another 10% difference.

 

If you guys can find any proof that any other skills are actually being reduced by 20%, please post it. Right now, it appears to be an issue solely with the tooltip being inaccurate.

[Cortimi]

I'm fairly sure that the issue here is that the tooltips are wrong.

 

So you are saying in fact, that tank stances are not bugged, because they only throw off the tooltip for every single skill related to damage for that character? Sounds legit.

[Kryand]

He's right. The tooltip damage values on your abilities are wrong, not the tank stance. You will see that your damage is only being reduced by 10% if you actually attack a target, watch the numbers, and do the math. I've also determined that on my Juggernaut, every lightsaber form causes all ability tooltips to give the wrong damage values. Edited January 26, 2015 by Kryand