Oh joy. J.J.Abrams ruined lightsabers.

[BrianDavion]

Considering the fact that George Lucas didn't care one bit about the EU and contradicted it repeatedly (forcing a ton of EU "retcons") I'd say the EU was tossed out long long ago.

The only difference is this:

George Lucas on EU: "Don't care about it, they can do their stuff but I'll do whatever I want and if it contradicts the EU they'll have to change it in the EU".

Disney on EU: "That stuff is not confirmed, but we might use it in the future and if we do, it will become canon, but until then it's just legends"

 

I'd say Disney is the more gentle way of handling it.

 

 

Indeed, if you watch rebels it seems like every episode at least one aspect of the EU is canonized in each episode.

[Edzew]

Considering the fact that George Lucas didn't care one bit about the EU and contradicted it repeatedly (forcing a ton of EU "retcons") I'd say the EU was tossed out long long ago.

The only difference is this:

George Lucas on EU: "Don't care about it, they can do their stuff but I'll do whatever I want and if it contradicts the EU they'll have to change it in the EU".

Disney on EU: "That stuff is not confirmed, but we might use it in the future and if we do, it will become canon, but until then it's just legends"

 

I'd say Disney is the more gentle way of handling it.

 

that's not true about Lucas and the EU... everything had to go by him and get aproval and he also had a lot to say about what went on in the EU... HE was the reason Chewie was killed off and when one writer wanted to make modifications to the Falcon Lucas told him NO. its been said by Timothy Zahn, R.A. Salvatore, and one other Author that has written a lot of Star Wars books.... forget his name now... kinda short and fat with a beard and a lil older B^P

[Gentleman_snow]

Really guys, for all the things in Star Wars we already suspend our disbelief for, I'm not getting hung up on a lightsaber hilt, y'know?

[Gentleman_snow]

that's not true about Lucas and the EU... everything had to go by him and get aproval and he also had a lot to say about what went on in the EU... HE was the reason Chewie was killed off and when one writer wanted to make modifications to the Falcon Lucas told him NO. its been said by Timothy Zahn, R.A. Salvatore, and one other Author that has written a lot of Star Wars books.... forget his name now... kinda short and fat with a beard and a lil older B^P

 

Stackpole?

[Khevar]

that's not true about Lucas and the EU... everything had to go by him and get approval and he also had a lot to say about what went on in the EU.

This statement contradicts what I've read about GL and his relationship to the EU.

 

Can you provide any links to back up your claim?

 

Or is this just wishful thinking on your part?

Edited December 5, 2014 by Khevar

[Edzew]

This statement contradicts what I've read about GL and his relationship to the EU.

 

Can you provide any links to back up your claim?

 

Or is this just wishful thinking on your part?

 

there was a youtube video or i think R.A. Salvatore where he talking about wanting to modify the falcon and lucas told him absolutely not that no one touches the falcon... and there was an interview back in early 2000s where he actually said it in the interview. also other Authors have said in panels at conventions... i didn't take video but if they said it in one panel im sure they said it in others and other people recorded it. the TV interview i believe it was for something like 60 min or something like that.

 

Stackpole?

 

ha ha ha sorry it took me a while to figure out what you were saying/asking B^P i was like "stackpole?? whats that and who brought that up?? did i misspell something??" then i looked over and saw I, Jedi and the authors name Michael A. Stackpole B^P no i think it was Dave Wolverton... the photo in the back of the book looks a lot younger than when i saw him a few years ago B^P so i may be wrong.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Edzew

[Khevar]

there was a youtube video or i think R.A. Salvatore where he talking about wanting to modify the falcon and lucas told him absolutely not that no one touches the falcon... and there was an interview back in early 2000s where he actually said it in the interview. also other Authors have said in panels at conventions... i didn't take video but if they said it in one panel im sure they said it in others and other people recorded it. the TV interview i believe it was for something like 60 min or something like that.

Interesting. So do you think that GL had to approve this, too?

 

Skippy

[Edzew]

Interesting. So do you think that GL had to approve this, too?

 

Skippy

 

well that is the comics the comics were under different rules than the novels. im speaking strictly Novels EU. the comics were if im correct in a completely different section of cannon. especially when the comics would change things from the Novels when they made a comic version of the novels. Now the comics EU i could see Lucas saying what you said you had read him saying but not the Novel's EU.

[Edzew]

http://iwatchstuff.com/2014/12/the-force-awakens-retro-trailer-feels-ev.php

 

the retro trailer for some reason looks way better ... though im still not sure about soccer ball droid B^(

Edited December 6, 2014 by Edzew

[Arkerus]

that's not true about Lucas and the EU... everything had to go by him and get aproval and he also had a lot to say about what went on in the EU... HE was the reason Chewie was killed off and when one writer wanted to make modifications to the Falcon Lucas told him NO. its been said by Timothy Zahn, R.A. Salvatore, and one other Author that has written a lot of Star Wars books.... forget his name now... kinda short and fat with a beard and a lil older B^P

 

Not true at all. Products were licensed out from LUCAS ARTS. While GL retained the rights to contradict anything, at any time, Lucas arts controlled most of the writing. The fact that GL could waltz into a board room and change anything, at any time just adds more proof that the EU was not sustainable because good old boy George could change it on a whim... and he did.

 

Many times during the development of the cancelled Star Wars video games, GL decide to just change things on a whim.

 

 

You need to face reality. The EU was always fan fiction. GL and Lucas Arts always maintained that the movie canon was the main story. I'm sorry man. You need to get a grip and face reality. The EU was and always will be fan faction,

[Edzew]

Not true at all. Products were licensed out from LUCAS ARTS. While GL retained the rights to contradict anything, at any time, Lucas arts controlled most of the writing. The fact that GL could waltz into a board room and change anything, at any time just adds more proof that the EU was not sustainable because good old boy George could change it on a whim... and he did.

 

Many times during the development of the cancelled Star Wars video games, GL decide to just change things on a whim.

 

 

You need to face reality. The EU was always fan fiction. GL and Lucas Arts always maintained that the movie canon was the main story. I'm sorry man. You need to get a grip and face reality. The EU was and always will be fan faction,

 

um actually everything i said was true. GL read and approved all the novels, he told the authors what to do i.e. kill chewbacca. everything else in your post still dose not explain how the EU was not sustainable... its been around for 20 sum odd years now and was going very strong. and from what you did say, you could say the same thing about the original movies... just "good ole george" went in and did the same thing with the original movies.. Greedo shooting first! young anakin ghost!! ewoks with eyelids!!

[MiaRB]

um actually everything i said was true. GL read and approved all the novels, he told the authors what to do i.e. kill chewbacca. everything else in your post still dose not explain how the EU was not sustainable... its been around for 20 sum odd years now and was going very strong. and from what you did say, you could say the same thing about the original movies... just "good ole george" went in and did the same thing with the original movies.. Greedo shooting first! young anakin ghost!! ewoks with eyelids!!

 

that isn't really accurate as far as I know. lucas has said many times that he doesn't read any of the EU books. for Chewbacca, lucas didn't tell the author to kill Chewbacca, he just said that it was ok if the author did it.

[DarthDymond]

um actually everything i said was true. GL read and approved all the novels, he told the authors what to do i.e. kill chewbacca. everything else in your post still dose not explain how the EU was not sustainable... its been around for 20 sum odd years now and was going very strong. and from what you did say, you could say the same thing about the original movies... just "good ole george" went in and did the same thing with the original movies.. Greedo shooting first! young anakin ghost!! ewoks with eyelids!!

LucasArts read and approved everything that went into the EU, George himself sure didn't. That's the whole reason there was a staff at LucasBooks and people like Leland Chee on the payroll.

 

Lucas personally was probably only involved on particularly major decisions ("George, DelRay want's permission to kill off Luke in order to kick off their new book series with a bang." "No, they can't kill Luke." "They really want to make a 'things will never be the same' statement, how about killing Chewie?" "Okay, that they can do.") and I'm sure there were random times - as with any company's 'big boss' - when he passed through the department and gave feedback/input on what was going on (I'm sure anyone who's worked in a medium/large company can tell stories about just how much fun it is when the head honcho comes in and says "I think it would be better if you guys did what you're doing this way, instead of the way you have been").

Edited December 6, 2014 by DarthDymond

[Edzew]

that isn't really accurate as far as I know. lucas has said many times that he doesn't read any of the EU books. for Chewbacca, lucas didn't tell the author to kill Chewbacca, he just said that it was ok if the author did it.

 

LucasArts read and approved everything that went into the EU, George himself sure didn't. That's the whole reason there was a staff at LucasBooks and people like Leland Chee on the payroll.

 

that's quite odd seeing as how in an interview he actually said he did read them and approve them.

 

also the author that killed chewbacca surly did not want to do so... he actually begged not to.

[DarthDymond]

that's quite odd seeing as how in an interview he actually said he did read them and approve them.

 

also the author that killed chewbacca surly did not want to do so... he actually begged not to.

George Lucas interview in Starlog Magazine (August 2005):

STARLOG: "The Star Wars Universe is so large and diverse. Do you ever find yourself confused by the subsidiary material that's in the novels, comics, and other offshoots?"

 

LUCAS: "I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

Edited December 6, 2014 by DarthDymond

[Arkerus]

George Lucas interview in Starlog Magazine (August 2005):

 

And the debate is over. The debate was over before it started. As I always said, the EU wasn't even canon to begin with. It was always grey area, fan fiction that was occasionally considered interesting.

 

All Disney did was make it official (officially not part of the movie canon).

 

Lets go back to talking about the lightsaber.

[AlemaTarkona]

I personally think the new J.J. Saber is stupid and should not have been made. But I have thought of only one reason why it was made that way. Since lightsaber construction knowledge has been lost over the years and only a few know how to construct one, this "cross-guard saber" could be a crude design and the two "mini blades" are a way of venting the raw and unstable energy of the primary blade. That being said, that is my only reason I believe would be a decent explanation as to why it looks the way it looks.

 

Still either way, I will never accept this saber as a true lightsaber or even canon...

[Edzew]

And the debate is over. The debate was over before it started. As I always said, the EU wasn't even canon to begin with. It was always grey area, fan fiction that was occasionally considered interesting.

 

All Disney did was make it official (officially not part of the movie canon).

 

Lets go back to talking about the lightsaber.

 

first of all that is jut wikipedia anyone can just go in and change crap around and say anything. That being said George has gone around and changed his mind over things so many times in the past 10 years who knows what the real truth is? i can only go by what i saw him say on TV and you can go by what wikipedia says. neither one of is wright or wrong really. BUT the Novel EU was a part of cannon! right under the movies. they were never fan fiction and to say that is just absurd.

[MiaRB]

that's quite odd seeing as how in an interview he actually said he did read them and approve them.

 

also the author that killed chewbacca surly did not want to do so... he actually begged not to.

 

you're just making stuff up now. ive never seen or read and interview with GL saying he has read even one EU book, let alone all of them. but I have seen and read many interviews were lucas says doesn't read any of the EU books or really pay that much attention to it.

[jedimasterjac]

Sure, let's complain about this.

 

Not light whips.

 

Or the sabers that point the blade at your forearm.

 

Or doublehanded sabers.

 

Or a lightsaber cane.

 

Or the protosaber.

 

Or the lightsaber pike.

 

Man, lightsabers have always just been so logical, haven't they? Pure blades of energy with all the weight in the hilt, making the impossible to handle? Oh no. Those two extra beams, now that will ruin it!

[DarthDymond]

first of all that is jut wikipedia anyone can just go in and change crap around and say anything.

Well, not that it's that big a deal but here's a scan of the actual article & quote if it helps.

As I always said, the EU wasn't even canon to begin with. It was always grey area, fan fiction that was occasionally considered interesting.

BUT the Novel EU was a part of cannon! right under the movies. they were never fan fiction and to say that is just absurd.

Totally just depends on your definition of 'canon' since it's a loose term at best - if your definition is:

 

• Canon = something that some other material has to treat as part of the continuity/having happened.

 

Then yes, the novels are definitely canon with respect to other novels, video games, comics, etc. When Raven Software was making their "Jedi Academy" video game, they weren't at liberty to say "we want Luke's academy to be set on Hoth!" they had to have it on Yavin because, as far as the video game was concerned the Jedi Academy Trilogy novels are canon and had to be adhered to. When Troy Denning was writing a novel set 35 ABY, he couldn't have had Han and Chewie flying around the galaxy, because as far as the novels were concerned, Chewie's death in 25 ABY was canon.

 

If, on the other hand, your definition is:

 

• Canon = something that can absolutely not be changed by any other material ever.

 

Then no, the novels weren't canon, because future movies or Lucas's pet TV shows were free to overwrite them.

 

Pick your definition, and understand which definition you're using vs which definition someone else is using. It's not a legal term or scientific definition - it's more of a colloquialism.

[Edzew]

Well, not that it's that big a deal but here's a scan of the actual article & quote if it helps.

 

 

Totally just depends on your definition of 'canon' since it's a loose term at best - if your definition is:

 

• Canon = something that some other material has to treat as part of the continuity/having happened.

 

Then yes, the novels are definitely canon with respect to other novels, video games, comics, etc. When Raven Software was making their "Jedi Academy" video game, they weren't at liberty to say "we want Luke's academy to be set on Hoth!" they had to have it on Yavin because, as far as the video game was concerned the Jedi Academy Trilogy novels are canon and had to be adhered to. When Troy Denning was writing a novel set 35 ABY, he couldn't have had Han and Chewie flying around the galaxy, because as far as the novels were concerned, Chewie's death in 25 ABY was canon.

 

If, on the other hand, your definition is:

 

• Canon = something that can absolutely not be changed by any other material ever.

 

Then no, the novels weren't canon, because future movies or Lucas's pet TV shows were free to overwrite them.

 

Pick your definition, and understand which definition you're using vs which definition someone else is using. It's not a legal term or scientific definition - it's more of a colloquialism.

 

but by your second definition the movies are not cannon either.. because lucas went in and changed them as well B^P

 

 

and i really wish i could find that interview with Lucas i never have been a good googler and the interview was before we had DVRs

[DarthDymond]

but by your second definition the movies are not cannon either.. because lucas went in and changed them as well B^P

 

 

and i really wish i could find that interview with Lucas i never have been a good googler and the interview was before we had DVRs

One of the many reasons I personally use the first definition - I've always considered the novels, comics, etc 'canon' with respect to the EU (what is now called "Legends"). I'm just aware that other people may have a different definition and because there is no official authority to establish a 'correct' definition, it's easier to just understand when we're using the same word to talk about two different things and move on from there.

Edited December 7, 2014 by DarthDymond

[Cyberwoman]

Not sure why some are getting so mad at this lightsaber... it is just a first look at one lightsaber. I doubt every Force-wielder will be carrying an exact copy. Anyway, I quite like it.

[mefit]

Stories for EP7-9 was written by George Lucas and it is likely the Saber was his idea not Abrams.

 

And to those discussing EU and Movies .

EU was never Canon , it being Legends now is pretty much what it has and always was .

Movies are the definitive Canon as they were always and will always be .

 

No matter how you feel about it , what you put in your own mind , and what you will except ..........Movies ,CW a,nd Rebels . are the Canon not the EU !

 

George Lucas stated this many times over that his Canon is above others. Disney is pretty much following that still .

Edited December 7, 2014 by mefit