Karkais Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Why they chose not to make Force Camo a true purge is beyond me. Because apparently **** marauders? Seems like they really want that marauders will not be used in pvp ever. Edited November 23, 2014 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightTyler Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Troopers and Bounty Hunters would like to have a word with you... ANDDDD Stealth Scan. Thanks Venom forgot that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ld-Siris Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well I do believe the did say that the sniper's evasion loses its purging effect so at least our anti class will eventual come down to our level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I'm not a fan of the Gore change myself. However on the other hand, Fury looks like it's going to be massively OP, or at least much much more powerful burst wise than most of the other stuff the streams have shown. It will be, and people have to remember that activating master strike will give a buff to combat that makes dispatch auto crit (at least it will if you have the full 6 piece PvP set bonus). I'm not convinced that combat/carnage will be bad in 3.0 as many have said. It is going to play very differently though. More of it's damage will come outside the PS/Gore windows, and the burst will set up differently. Just how good it is will really be determined by how beserk/zen affects cooldowns while active. The effective cooldown for PS/Gore may be much shorter than we anticipate. And lets not forget that although the spec is losing the ranged root that was crippling throw, there is a utility that gives a 10m ranged 6 second snare to every sentinel spec (although it is admittedly better for both fury and annihilation). All that said, Fury/concentration will be much easier to play and will have better burst than anything we currently have on the live servers. So I think that will be the primary spec most use. Annihilation/Watchman will also be quite viable for regs, and may even be pretty good in ranked arenas. All the class will really need to be in a very good place for 3.0 is a rework of undying/GBTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) And lets not forget that although the spec is losing the ranged root that was crippling throw, there is a utility that gives a 10m ranged 6 second snare to every sentinel spec (although it is admittedly better for both fury and annihilation). Repeating for the umpteenth time since people apparently don't pay attention. Abovementioned utility "inescapable" is a heroic utility, which means the top tier of utilities. You are limited to how many heroic utilities you can take for your build (afaik two). There are a whole bunch of things that the old skilltrees used to take for granted that are now ALSO moved to utilities, specifically heroic utilities. For my carnage marauder for example, expunging camouflage and brooding. These are ALSO heroic utilities. You can take afaik maximum of two. So if I take the new root utility I cannot take something else that my build previously had. If I take whatmy build previously had, I cannot take the new root. So the build will ALWAYS be INFERIOR to what it used to be. I am pretty sure same goes for other skill trees, people just don't pay attention. Devs seem to think that damage is all that matters which I very much disagree with. Not to mention the "player DoTs are now uncleansable" which was major *** for me, if it means force camouflage is even WORSE. In any case the main reasons why someone would take carnage in the first place are now moved to class-wide utilities, which begs the question why would anybody want to take carnage anymore. Especially with the major buff to player DoTs. If I am wrong, I wish people would point it out in detail where I am wrong. Not "I think there is this thing I saw somewhere that supposedly replaces what marauders lost. IMO" Edited November 25, 2014 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Repeating for the umpteenth time since people apparently don't pay attention. Abovementioned utility "inescapable" is a heroic utility, which means the top tier of utilities. You are limited to how many heroic utilities you can take for your build (afaik two). There are a whole bunch of things that the old skilltrees used to take for granted that are now ALSO moved to utilities, specifically heroic utilities. For my carnage marauder for example, expunging camouflage and brooding. These are ALSO heroic utilities. You can take afaik maximum of two. So if I take the new root utility I cannot take something else that my build previously had. If I take whatmy build previously had, I cannot take the new root. So the build will ALWAYS be INFERIOR to what it used to be. I am pretty sure same goes for other skill trees, people just don't pay attention. Devs seem to think that damage is all that matters which I very much disagree with. Not to mention the "player DoTs are now uncleansable" which was major *** for me, if it means force camouflage is even WORSE. In any case the main reasons why someone would take carnage in the first place are now moved to class-wide utilities, which begs the question why would anybody want to take carnage anymore. Especially with the major buff to player DoTs. If I am wrong, I wish people would point it out in detail where I am wrong. Not "I think there is this thing I saw somewhere that supposedly replaces what marauders lost. IMO" Interceptor is what he's talking about, which is a masterful utility which grants a 6 second 50% slow on a rotational 10m ability and another 6 second 50% slow on your gap closer. Inescapable was a 10m 3 second root. Take the 3 second root and spread the speed reduction over 6 seconds and what is it? A 50% slow. And because its a masterful utility, you can grab it and still grab 2 Heroic utilities if you want. Or you can grab 3 masterfuls + 1 heroic. Or whatever. Also remember my maths on page 1? I forgot Carnage has a 12 second Battering Assault, which means if you use every second one under berserk its a 21-seconds-for-2 cooldown, which means less assault, MOAR MASSACRE Think something more like this: OPENER: 30 stacks of Fury Force Charge -> Rotation Rotation (Berserk -> BA -> MS -> Gore -> RV -> DB -> MS -> MS) -> DST -> BA -> MS -> Gore -> VT -> DB -> MS -> MS -> AS -> MS -> Boom. Edited November 25, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Force Charge -> Overload, you're rooted -> bupkiss. Assuming you have taken expunging camouflage, a heroic utility, you can try unrooting yourself and approach again. If not, youre likely dead before you get there, and in the best scenario merely slowed by force lightning. Should you ever get close enough, the sorcerer can just force barrier and wait for his pals to beat the remaining 10% of your lifebar. That is, if the sorcerer does not have force speed lined up which the immobilize would have stopped but the slow does not. He will just run away and re-apply ranged attacks. I see very little reason to not play sorcerers only after 3.0, but hopefully its just me. The world seems full of various slows and DoT's and ranged attacks, while the marauder got what little was going for them taken away. Edited November 25, 2014 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dras_Keto Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I see very little reason to not play sorcerers only after 3.0 Unless youre a powertech or juggernaut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Unless youre a powertech or juggernaut. Or serenity shadow or it's mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Overload, you're rooted -> bupkiss. Assuming you have taken expunging camouflage, a heroic utility, you can try unrooting yourself and approach again. If not, youre likely dead before you get there, and in the best scenario merely slowed by force lightning. Should you ever get close enough, the sorcerer can just force barrier and wait for his pals to beat the remaining 10% of your lifebar. That is, if the sorcerer does not have force speed lined up which the immobilize would have stopped but the slow does not. He will just run away and re-apply ranged attacks. I see very little reason to not play sorcerers only after 3.0, but hopefully its just me. The world seems full of various slows and DoT's and ranged attacks, while the marauder got what little was going for them taken away. that's only if they leap at you from the front if he leaps you from behind your overload wouldn't help you at all since it is frontal only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomlash Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Overload, you're rooted -> bupkiss. Assuming you have taken expunging camouflage, a heroic utility, you can try unrooting yourself and approach again. If not, youre likely dead before you get there, and in the best scenario merely slowed by force lightning. Ooor you Awe him, preventing him from moving away while the root expires, Stasis him as the Awe expires, and then close in while he's stunned. Remember, the changes to Force Stasis/Force Choke mean that you can move while channeling it (and I think maybe you only have to channel the first second of it or something, not sure). Unless Overload magically pushes you back by a whole 10m, you'll be able to keep him from escaping if you react well. Honestly, I see Expunging Camouflage less as a defense against knockback-roots and more as an escape utility, allowing you to break slows and roots when you camo out so that by the time you're visible again you can have put some distance between the enemy and yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Ooor you Awe him, preventing him from moving away while the root expires, Stasis him as the Awe expires, and then close in while he's stunned. Remember, the changes to Force Stasis/Force Choke mean that you can move while channeling it (and I think maybe you only have to channel the first second of it or something, not sure). Unless Overload magically pushes you back by a whole 10m, you'll be able to keep him from escaping if you react well. Honestly, I see Expunging Camouflage less as a defense against knockback-roots and more as an escape utility, allowing you to break slows and roots when you camo out so that by the time you're visible again you can have put some distance between the enemy and yourself. Awe will be out of range after Overload, although if you leap at a sorc from the front who has overload up you are probably going to lose that encounter anyways. If you manage to run in with LoS so you don't take too much damage then you can awe as you are knocked back and that will work. Also if that is a madness sorc they will probably have a DoT on you and the root will break in 2 seconds. If you have rebuke or saber ward up you will lose only a little health before reaching him, particularly if you use expunging cammo or better yet transcendence with root/snare break (the better heroic for combat in my opinion) you can quickly re-close. Also note that if you can initially close without using leap, it is available to use after the knockback, and if he follows with a stun you are whitebarred and can break with with immunity after. In any case, I think sent/mara will be fine against sorcs in a 1v1 in 3.0. I worry more about jugs, sins, and possibly snipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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