who is retiring thier sent/mara in 3.0?

[Vodrin]

Your missing out on the 5% from Battering Assault's Beat Down effect...

 

You are also going to want to fit at least one tick of ravage in there before furious strike to make it auto crit from the set bonus.

[Hei_Atzfel]

You are also going to want to fit at least one tick of ravage in there before furious strike to make it auto crit from the set bonus.

 

Wasn't aware of what the FS autocrit was, so I left it out.

[Ashuranrx]

6s of 50% slow attach to Devastating Blast by Interceptor utility. It is no 3s root, but I can work around that.

[Vodrin]

No one was talking about moves. Talking about Utility. The way the Discipline/Utility system works, most specs after they have spent their 7 utility points come away with everything they used to have and a little more, or the ability to select better things.

 

Carnage comes away from it being forced to give things up. And what they are being force to give up looks crippling.

 

That's not true at all. Almost every spec has to give up something to get the new goodies. Even Jugs/Guardians who arguably may have the best utilities cannot come close to getting everything they used to have.

 

Carnage can be spec'd with a ranged snare now to replace it's ranged root, and can spec for a root/snare cleanse on transcendence or a total cleanse on force cammo.

 

While I am not certain that combat will not feel a little weaker in 3.0, I actually suspect it will feel about the same strength wise as it did in 2.10 but will just play differently.

 

The shorter cooldown on Ravage is a really big deal by the way, particularly if you have seen the 6 piece set bonus for the mara PvP gear.

 

Wasn't aware of what the FS autocrit was, so I left it out.

 

Every mara/sent and jug/guardian spec will have an autocrit on one of their heavy hitters due to the new PvP sets. Jug/Guardian trigger it with saber throw, and Mara/Sent trigger with MS/Ravage. I really think it should have been triggered by Twin saber throw, but I cannot complain too much.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Vodrin

[Khalil]

A: Cleanses now also have an increased CD, which means they won't be spammable like now.

 

B: Depending on the circumstances, you won't always have a healer on your team or even enough healers for that to be a reliable strategy. Oh, and LOL @ "having a healer standby", in an evenly matched game no healer is ever "on standby".

 

C: No healer is going to react fast enough to make the CC count for nothing. The PS window is only 6 seconds, even just removing a second of that will greatly diminish your burst.

 

Yea you keep thinking that until you see the Sent/Mara set bonus, thats where things come full circle and make them a monster in the Carnage/Combat spec

[Aluvi]

I'm reserving my judgement until I get some time to actually play the specs, but I can tell you this: I have been a Mara main since the beta of SWTOR, and in 3.0 I will be switching my main to my Jugg/Guardian. The buff to Massacre may offset the changes to Carnage, but it won't be an overall improvement, and it certainly won't be good for arenas, which is where Carnage shined.

 

As for the new Rage tree (Fury), Juggs do it better, plain and simple. Aoe will not be a big enough factor to deter Juggs from dominating in Fury. That was the only edge maras had for Rage. And it is now gone. Juggs get better cooldowns, better utilities, better damage output, heavy armor, and the rotation just flows better as a Jugg, and stuns don't mess you up the way they do when your berserk is delayed due to cc / stuns on a Mara.

 

If you still want to play the warrior AC at 3.0, roll a Jugg / Guardian now.

[Aztian]

i am useing my week for leveling a jugg lol

[Vodrin]

I'm reserving my judgement until I get some time to actually play the specs, but I can tell you this: I have been a Mara main since the beta of SWTOR, and in 3.0 I will be switching my main to my Jugg/Guardian. The buff to Massacre may offset the changes to Carnage, but it won't be an overall improvement, and it certainly won't be good for arenas, which is where Carnage shined.

 

As for the new Rage tree (Fury), Juggs do it better, plain and simple. Aoe will not be a big enough factor to deter Juggs from dominating in Fury. That was the only edge maras had for Rage. And it is now gone. Juggs get better cooldowns, better utilities, better damage output, heavy armor, and the rotation just flows better as a Jugg, and stuns don't mess you up the way they do when your berserk is delayed due to cc / stuns on a Mara.

 

If you still want to play the warrior AC at 3.0, roll a Jugg / Guardian now.

 

Ever since FD/ED got buffed and UR/GBTF got nerfed Guard/Jugg has had better defensives than the sen/mara. 3.0 is not changing this. As long as that is the case any Jug/guardian spec that can match sent/mara burst specs for damage is going to outperform mara/sent. This makes focus/rage more appealing than fury/concentration on paper anyways. I am going to have to see how they play to make an absolute determination. And since I have every republic side AC at 55 right now, I will be able to adjust. I suspect I will just keep playing my sent though and find a spec I can make work until BW comes to their senses and reworks UR/GBTF.

[Aluvi]

Ever since FD/ED got buffed and UR/GBTF got nerfed Guard/Jugg has had better defensives than the sen/mara. 3.0 is not changing this. As long as that is the case any Jug/guardian spec that can match sent/mara burst specs for damage is going to outperform mara/sent. This makes focus/rage more appealing than fury/concentration on paper anyways. I am going to have to see how they play to make an absolute determination. And since I have every republic side AC at 55 right now, I will be able to adjust. I suspect I will just keep playing my sent though and find a spec I can make work until BW comes to their senses and reworks UR/GBTF.

 

There's more to it than just the UR nerf and ED buff though. The meta of the game has changed. The only thing Mars have ever really had over Jugs in Rage was the 30% Aoe reduction, and of course UR. Jugs have a better cooldown than UR now, and Death Field is the only really dangerous AOE, and it has a long enough cooldown that 30% reduction is no longer mandatory for pvp. In that way, the game meta has shifted, and classes that were previously handicapped by not having Aoe reduction no longer suffer a big disadvantage. Literally everything else about Jugs is better. They get push, taunt, higher dps, friendly leap, 30m Saber throw root, new retaliation, better rotation that is more forgiving to stuns and cc, baked in 20% armor debuff, and the list goes on. Jugs are currently the superior class with regards to the shared pvp spec. Reverting UR would be a nice gesture, but I feel that it would not be enough at this point to bring Maras up to participate for 3.0. Unless Carnage or annihilation receive significant buffs to put their single target burst up there with what a fury Jugg can do, the mara class is dead for competitive pvp. And I ain't even mad. I'll just play jugg.

[Vodrin]

There's more to it than just the UR nerf and ED buff though. The meta of the game has changed. The only thing Mars have ever really had over Jugs in Rage was the 30% Aoe reduction, and of course UR. Jugs have a better cooldown than UR now, and Death Field is the only really dangerous AOE, and it has a long enough cooldown that 30% reduction is no longer mandatory for pvp. In that way, the game meta has shifted, and classes that were previously handicapped by not having Aoe reduction no longer suffer a big disadvantage. Literally everything else about Jugs is better. They get push, taunt, higher dps, friendly leap, 30m Saber throw root, new retaliation, better rotation that is more forgiving to stuns and cc, baked in 20% armor debuff, and the list goes on. Jugs are currently the superior class with regards to the shared pvp spec. Reverting UR would be a nice gesture, but I feel that it would not be enough at this point to bring Maras up to participate for 3.0. Unless Carnage or annihilation receive significant buffs to put their single target burst up there with what a fury Jugg can do, the mara class is dead for competitive pvp. And I ain't even mad. I'll just play jugg.

 

With the anti-kiting it has and the new set bonuses annihilation may be pretty good in 3.0, but it may also suck. We will have to play it to see. That said you are correct from a competitive standpoint. Jugs have numerous advantages right now, and most of the advantages that maras have over them (additional snares, shorter defensive cooldowns, etc.) are just not as good as what jugs get. We will see how it goes after 3.0 hits and dev's get to see their metrics, but I fully expect I will see a lot more guardians and jugs in DPS roles in 3.0 competitive PvP.

[merovejec]

Am I the only one who noticed that Force Sweep/Smash is doing 50% less dmg? Making Focus(Concentration) a not-aoe spec!!

[Klemor]

Am I the only one who noticed that Force Sweep/Smash is doing 50% less dmg? Making Focus(Concentration) a not-aoe spec!!

 

50% less when you use aoe, but with the new power you got, you can round with the 2 and do a lot of damage ! Now it's better than Combat discipline... In PVP you won't do the same damage against the other team but you can do a lot to one guy and do it to the others when you want with cyclon too

[oJebuso]

A lot of baddies in this thread with obvious FOTM mentality. The good players will adapt and excel.

[Projawa]

A lot of baddies in this thread with obvious FOTM mentality. The good players will adapt and excel.

 

True. Some cannot adapt. Others have been playing mara since launch and want a change of pace.

[Ramtar]

Am I the only one who noticed that Force Sweep/Smash is doing 50% less dmg? Making Focus(Concentration) a not-aoe spec!!

 

Devs can't figure their heads from their 6s when dealing with Knight/Warrior ACs. Single Target/DOT/AOE that RDPS can enjoy doesn't apply to Knight/Warrior which the devs want only to play as a Single Target (4-10m only, few 30m attacks) with DOT/AOE sprinkled in.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ramtar

[Bonzenaattori]

Somewhere in a Parallel Universe.

Combat spec was OP

[Mrdann]

Somewhere in a Parallel Universe.

Combat spec was OP

 

funny fact thats probably why they nerfed it so hard too.....

[aate]

Add my Sent to the retired list also. You can call me bad player.

[cmorea]

I'm really not liking any of the changes, I voiced my opinion on the PTS but for the most part I found the devs wanted to hear our opinions but had their minds made up on how Sentinels should play and didn't really care that the players they asked to test it did not enjoy it.

 

I'm gonna keep playing the Sent for a little while but the Shadow is on deck.

 

I think changes need to be made in 3.1. I would have rather not had a new ability than getting vital shot.

 

If you don't like combat in 3.0, the PvPers got what they wanted and now we're all stuck with 3 sec PS... So thanks!

[Mrdann]

Exactly. And U start kiting. He can't leap to U again because he has leap on cooldown. He doesn't have normal hard stun, he can stun u by channeling FS for 3 sec but why should he do that? He can't root u because........ well they will take away our 10m root:D And u kite even more becasue using abilities while moving is apparently devs new idea:)

 

The best thing ever is using leg slash twice to root target for 3 sec. It's so ridiculous, someone should get Nobel Price for that idea:D

 

Ofc it's PvP point of view. Combat in PvE will be more than fine.

 

not really the 3 second PS is pretty useless it won't even finish a master strike, i have been testing combat so far and i'm 58 right now and i am not liking the change at all, and the discipline tree is worse... freedom of choice HAH choice my eye.

 

here's the way i see it since PS seems to be the root of combats problem, and why it was nerfed so hard i think they really need to

A: either remove it completely and give us a new ability to replace it that does something else,

B: raise our flat armor ignore to 30% or 40% instead of 20% put PS back to 4.5s but only have the armor pen to 20% instead so that the total armor ignore is 60% total instead of 100%

C: Revamp the combat tree into something more interesting and unique to the class keep blade rush and ataru form, but since this is form IV and the most aerobatic of the forms focus on that, and maybe getting a second free extra attack, or something.

 

this is why the combat jedi pose a problem we have an identity crisis bioware has NO clue what were supposed to do, if we are supposed to be the burst spec then WHY in the name of Jacques Yves Cousteau did they nerf us into the ground with PS?

 

because when you look the jedi classes what do we have?

Guardians:

Vigelence armor ignore + DOT burns

Defence: Tank

Focus: Force dmg + Aoe

 

Sentinel:

Focus: Force dmg + Aoe

Watchman: Pure DOT burns + minor heal

Combat: Pure Armor Ignore

 

maybe what bioware needs to do to make combat way more interesting is focus on pure energy damage instead of armor ignore with really really minor energy burn DOTs on critical strikes. Since clashing blast is pure energy damage maybe thats where they should be shifting the focus too i don't know. but its a thought and its better then the garbage we have now.

[ScarlettDiablo]

On my last day of sub I just want to say that BW I love u for the great pvp rewards (weapons are awesome).

but... FU BW for changing so much my sentinel-marauder. Fu like big time (big time on love u for the pvp rewards).

But really... smash "tree" where I would do dailies so nicely and fast using berserk, 3 stacks of koan (now koan) then using smash-force sweep I just killed mobs instantly. So the BH daily runs were so fast, as well as in Oricon or wherever I went... now u made it single targetted (the combo, not force sweep) and feels lots less powerful, I was doing next to 9k smashes to mobs now it's SINGLE TARGET 5.5K ... REALLY FCKING BW!?!!? I am so pissed off I really could slap u in the face...

 

And I konw u won't fkcing do anything about this, prob will delete my post, whatever... I think u sck balls so much right now... is this why I preordered and bought some sub time? Just for 5 more lvls... more of the same planets.... new gear... that's it?

 

No new gameplay, classes feel worse now (yeah, sage and guardian are op).

Still no balance. bolster scks...

 

I'm this close to uninstalling but want to see how pvp feels at lvl 60.. but that's it... and .. that the pvp reward weapons are so cool... damn u BW...

 

and to whoever antagonizes me.. yeah, fu too... so pissed off....

[DhanRahl]

A lot of baddies in this thread with obvious FOTM mentality. The good players will adapt and excel.

Big difference between FOTM mentality and those who simply do not enjoy the disciplines/class even with proper knowledge/experience therefore there is no long a reason to adapt. Only real reason I'm still using mine is because it is the one class I hate least at the moment...and because it's been my main toon/class since beta.

 

But yeah, probably 80% FOTM mentality.

 

The spec most definitely requires tuning if not a minor overhaul and the Devs do know how little most of us hardcore marauders/sentinels are impressed if not in contempt for what's it's been transformed into. Just keep in mind that they have a LOT to fix with such a rushed release most of which are very major issues that directly affect the game and gameplay, meaning that the 24 disciplines that will require their undivided attention will simply have to wait their turn.

[Evanouss]

Going Guardian Concentration spec....My god the difference is night and day between my conc sent and guardian...

 

Guardian so many more root snare breaks and immunity.

More all in one moves, such as saber throw, root and armor pen.

Just seems alot smoother, plus to add the ability to taunt for team assistance.

Force push...

 

the list goes on and on and on...no reason to play sent in pvp now at all.

[Evanouss]

The only way they are going to notice how bad sents got screwed is by a giant drop in sent attendance, stop playing yours now.

This goes simply for pvp.

 

I'm sure in pve they are still quite good.

 

No one can deny sent mara kiting is ez in pvp.

Control = power. If you can control it, you can kill it.

 

I'm sure there will be a bunch of "it's a team game, wz's and arenas are team activities, sentinels just need to pick their battles....." That's a game for classes with all the time stealth, anyone w/o stealth is out there ready to be rooted snared and killed just like the rest.

 

Sentinels need pvp love, I hope devs see that and respond.

[Vodrin]

Going Guardian Concentration spec....My god the difference is night and day between my conc sent and guardian...

 

Guardian so many more root snare breaks and immunity.

More all in one moves, such as saber throw, root and armor pen.

Just seems alot smoother, plus to add the ability to taunt for team assistance.

Force push...

 

the list goes on and on and on...no reason to play sent in pvp now at all.

 

Guardian is focus spec not concentration, but otherwise you are correct. The defensives are vastly better. A rework to undying rage/GBTF is needed to close the gap, although it would only be the first step and not everything that is needed.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Vodrin