Aurbere Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Well unless anyone is trying to say Nomi > Traya in either sabers or force powers, I believe we can quite happily say Nomi will lose. Let's at least agree on that. No one has said that she won't lose. Literally everyone has said that she would lose. We simply disagree that she will be brutally massacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 No one has said that she won't lose. Literally everyone has said that she would lose. We simply disagree that she will be brutally massacred. You disagree, but haven't formed an argument that suggests otherwise (because you cannot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I'm enjoying myself with soloing the entire SWTOR debate team. Quite satisfactory seeing them say, "whatever, it doesn't matter. Let's move on because I don't' want to admit I can't form an argument that beats yours." 'Soloing'? Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Kolar has superior hype, and Trebor has superior feats. We aren't discussing Force feats either. We are talking about combat abilites. Provide me with feats better then slaughtering through waves of enemies (like Trebor did) or being among the finest lightsaber combatant in the Order's history (like Kolar did, as stated from numerous sources). The problem is you're bringing the classic absence of evidence argument up, so has Selenial but no one with half a brain is going to accept that someone with such a clear strength in combat is a noob with no talent. Despite having no prior training at all she is hailed as a natural duelist by the author. Despite barely Luke level training under Vodo and Thon she is fighting swathes of Krath/Ommin forces without injury and is 'decimating' them with her blade. The Krath and Ommin's forces were not average joes they were genuine warriors, both fought the Republic and Jedi themselves and claimed victories. On Coruscant barely weeks later she fought Mandalorians and won without injury. This is all before her prime, she is given high accolades. But as I have ststed before she is a duelist second and Force Power slinger first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 So many excuses. It's a fact. I'm not putting any real effort into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 You disagree, but haven't formed an argument that suggests otherwise (because you cannot). Correction: I don't want to. Simply for Sel's sake, since she's been upset with me for siding with Rayla for the majority of the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 No one has said that she won't lose. Literally everyone has said that she would lose. We simply disagree that she will be brutally massacred. Well I don't even think she'll be brutally massacred. She just won't last as long as Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) The problem is you're bringing the classic absence of evidence argument up, so has Selenial but no one with half a brain is going to accept that someone with such a clear strength in combat is a noob with no talent. Despite having no prior training at all she is hailed as a natural duelist by the author. [/quote She was being guided by the spirit of her husband. Not impressed. Despite barely Luke level training under Vodo and Thon she is fighting swathes of Krath/Ommin forces without injury and is 'decimating' them with her blade. The Krath and Ommin's forces were not average joes they were genuine warriors, both fought the Republic and Jedi themselves and claimed victories. On Coruscant barely weeks later she fought Mandalorians and won without injury. In none of these encounters did we ever see her fight over above 5 enemies besides with Thon. She was with a large group, and they were doing majority of the work. In fact, sourcebooks heavily imply that Ulic Qel-Droma did majority of the labor when they went and freed Arca Jeth from Ommin. Trebeor manually slicing through "wave after wave of droid battalions and Geonosian warriors" is far more impressive. Accept it and concede. Edited November 23, 2014 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 The problem is you're bringing the classic absence of evidence argument up, so has Selenial but no one with half a brain is going to accept that someone with such a clear strength in combat is a noob with no talent. Despite having no prior training at all she is hailed as a natural duelist by the author. Despite barely Luke level training under Vodo and Thon she is fighting swathes of Krath/Ommin forces without injury and is 'decimating' them with her blade. The Krath and Ommin's forces were not average joes they were genuine warriors, both fought the Republic and Jedi themselves and claimed victories. On Coruscant barely weeks later she fought Mandalorians and won without injury. This is all before her prime, she is given high accolades. But as I have ststed before she is a duelist second and Force Power slinger first. No one is using absence of Evidence to say she sucks, we're using it to say she is not on the level of the finest duelists or combatants in history, because she has never shown herself, or been stated, to be that level. You are elevating her above anything she's ever shown herself to be, or beyond those her accolades state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Well I don't even think she'll be brutally massacred. She just won't last as long as Revan. Ah good, if we can actually have a debate here instead of imbecilic lowball throwing and petty superiority claims then I would be a lot happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Ah good, if we can actually have a debate here instead of imbecilic lowball throwing and petty superiority claims then I would be a lot happier. Literally the only person who's said 5 second slaughter was Ant, I've said that at least 100 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 No one is using absence of Evidence to say she sucks, we're using it to say she is not on the level of the finest duelists or combatants in history, because she has never shown herself, or been stated, to be that level. You are elevating her above anything she's ever shown herself to be, or beyond those her accolades state. 'Legendary skill with the Jedi weapon' sounds to me like high level dueling skill, a general statement applied to all the 'famous knights' of the Sith War. I am not elevating her because she is already at a strong level, btw Revan and the Exile are not some of the finest duelists of all time, neither is Nomi. None of them would stand up well against the actual master duelists. Yoda, Dooku, Caedus, Luke, Vader, Windu, Sidious, Jaina and the rest they are the best with mountains of evidence to prove so. Perhaps only Kun and Ulic would have a chance against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) 'Legendary skill with the Jedi weapon' sounds to me like high level dueling skill, a general statement applied to all the 'famous knights' of the Sith War.. Source for that? And isn't that referring to her encounter with the pirates? She was guided by the spirit of her husband and the Force for that. Edited November 23, 2014 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Well I don't even think she'll be brutally massacred. She just won't last as long as Revan. I would say against Windu Revan would last 3-5 minutes but Nomi vs Meetra i wouldn't think she will more then a minute at most against Revan 30 seconds am not saying Nomi isn't a good fighter but Revan and the Exile is just better as a team and one on one. side note:everyone on here agree's that Nomi will lost the battle her only saving grace is WIndu if she runs he will be cut down and the next time they meet she will be killed. As long as windu is still alive Nomi will still have a chance to win the only real way for Selenial to win is to kill him first and the rest will fall like dominoes without him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Source for that? And isn't that referring to her encounter with the pirates? She was guided by the spirit of her husband for that. Something along those lines exists in POTJ, TOTJ:C and a few others. I'm simply drawing from memory but the GSW Jedi have always been highly praised, if you gather them all up you can make an argument that they were the second greatest Order ever. TheForce.net has already held that debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) @Jaros Revan can take on the Nomi and Mace duo for the brief time it takes for Nomi to drop. Plus Meetra can aid Revan in holding back Mace for Revan to finish off Nomi. Edited November 23, 2014 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Something along those lines exists in POTJ, TOTJ:C and a few others. I'm simply drawing from memory but the GSW Jedi have always been highly praised, if you gather them all up you can make an argument that they were the second greatest Order ever. TheForce.net has already held that debate. I request a scan, direct quote, or a full direct source for me to find and check. Your reliability is lacking these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 'Legendary skill with the Jedi weapon' sounds to me like high level dueling skill, a general statement applied to all the 'famous knights' of the Sith War. I am not elevating her because she is already at a strong level, btw Revan and the Exile are not some of the finest duelists of all time, neither is Nomi. None of them would stand up well against the actual master duelists. Yoda, Dooku, Caedus, Luke, Vader, Windu, Sidious, Jaina and the rest they are the best with mountains of evidence to prove so. Perhaps only Kun and Ulic would have a chance against them. Actually, Surik probably is, given all her major achievements happen with the blade. She bests Traya and Atris through skills with the blade, Atris is a Juyo Master, and a masterful duelist. Being a Juyo Master requires mastery of many other forms. She beat Atris through bladework alone, despite the fact that Atris was drawing on the power of many different Sith Artifacts in her own personal Nexus. Traya was a "Master of Lightsaber combat" and "Master of Telekinetic combat" who was "More powerful" than Surik, yet Surik's bladework allowed her to kill Traya in the heart of a Dark Side Nexus. To best a master like that, despite her more powerful force powers and her situational advantage puts her in the league of the best. Not to mention her slaughter of IK's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 @Jaros Revan can take on the Nomi and Mace duo for the brief time it takes for Nomi to drop. Plus Meetra can aid Revan in holding back Mace for Revan to finish off Nomi. I never said he wouldn't be able too but when he start to focus on Nomi. Windu will turn his full attention on Revan if Meetra not fast enough he will be cut down Windu is the best Duelist out of the 4 and it will take both Revan and Meetra to take him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) I never said he wouldn't be able too but when he start to focus on Nomi. Windu will turn his full attention on Revan if Meetra not fast enough he will be cut down Windu is the best Duelist out of the 4 and it will take both Revan and Meetra to take him out If a weaker Revan can hold his own and nearly beat Tython, Marr, Beniko, Theron, and Jakarro amped by Shan's battle meditation, he can hold his against just Windu for a very long time (or perhaps best him). Edited November 23, 2014 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 If a weaker Revan can hold his own and nearly beat Tython, Marr, Beniko, Theron, and Jakarro amped by Shan's battle meditation, he can hold his against just Windu for a very long time (or perhaps best him). i didn't say he couldn't but we are not using that Revan we are using a different Revan less crazy Revan so you post mean nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 i didn't say he couldn't but we are not using that Revan we are using a different Revan less crazy Revan so you post mean nothing That incarnation of Revan is of Darth Revan, not a never before seen version. If Darth Revan's feats are allowed, so is that one. To ignore it is pretty lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 That incarnation of Revan is of Darth Revan, not a never before seen version. If Darth Revan's feats are allowed, so is that one. To ignore it is pretty lame. A dark version of Revan is not Darth Revan its completely different but its no point of talking about it at the beginning of this Kaggath we all were told this was Revan reborn Foundry Revan not the expansion Revan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Well I don't even think she'll be brutally massacred. She just won't last as long as Revan. Tell Ant to stop saying she will be. Maybe then we can actually have some genuine debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 A dark version of Revan is not Darth Revan its completely different but its no point of talking about it at the beginning of this Kaggath we all were told this was Revan reborn Foundry Revan not the expansion Revan :facepalm: You really have no clue what you are talking about, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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