The Most Lifeless Universe....

[princey]

I've already stated my reasons multiple times before, not gonna do it again.

 

Needless to say, everyone i talked to that was excited by coming over to swtor is now pretty much going to unsub next month due to this not actually being an MMO.

 

If you can't figure it out yourself why, then all the better for you. Keep enjoying the game.

 

Come on, I'm genuinely curious as to what makes this game not an MMO. I told you why I think it is. I could care less if you said it before. I'm not going to comb through your post history. I'm asking you now. If you've already stated your discontent, then why do you continually spout "It's not an MMO". Didn't you already make that point multiple times?

[Skeelol]

Come on, I'm genuinely curious as to what makes this game not an MMO. I told you why I think it is. I could care less if you said it before. I'm not going to comb through your post history. I'm asking you now. If you've already stated your discontent, then why do you continually spout "It's not an MMO". Didn't you already make that point multiple times?

 

Try clicking the post history and see the result.

 

There's also no search function on these forums.

 

Then you'll see my problem. I cba rewriting that wall of text every single time.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Skeelol

[princey]

Try clicking the post history and see the result.

 

There's also no search function on these forums.

 

Then you'll see my problem. I cba rewriting that wall of text every single time.

 

Post history doesn't work. I frankly don't really care why you don't think this is an MMO enough to have combed through your history. If you cba rewriting it, then I cba finding and reading it. I've played pretty near every MMO that's come out since I played EQ in 2001, and there's NOT ONE vital mechanic this game is missing that would define it as an MMO. Technically, it needs massive amounts of people playing in the same world. Got that down. If you get into industry standards... grouping, pvp, crafting, auctions, mail, chat, raids, guilds. There's a good list of an MMO's social requirements as is set forth by genre standards. Check, check, check, check, check, check, check, and check. Like I said, your definition is likely far too refined. Different strokes for different folks.

Edited December 25, 2011 by princey

[iMate]

Post history doesn't work. I frankly don't really care why you don't think this is an MMO enough to have combed through your history. If you cba rewriting it, then I cba finding and reading it. I've played pretty near every MMO that's come out since I played EQ in 2001, and there's NOT ONE vital mechanic this game is missing that would define it as an MMO. Technically, it needs massive amounts of people playing in the same world. Got that down. If you get into industry standards... grouping, pvp, crafting, auctions, mail, chat, raids, guilds. There's a good list of an MMO's social requirements as is set forth by genre standards. Check, check, check, check, check, check, check, and check. Like I said, your definition is likely far too refined. Different strokes for different folks.

 

massive amount of loading screens. CHECK

non responsive pvp. CHECK

game made for 2001. CHECK

[Flowerslayer]

you obviously didn't get very far in the game. Only the first planet is linear and the second somewhat so (but not much). Past that, planets are immense, fully explorable, and exploration is encouraged by hidden quests, datacrons and lore unlocks.

 

Basically, you're so far off the mark that it's not even funny.

 

Lifeless? please... That's not even realistic.

 

The game takes a lot of step forwards in the MMORPG genre, for sure not backwards.

 

Not sure what you're trying to argue here, but it is infact a rather lifeless, static universe. Have you not noticed the lack of npc chatter/patrols, background noise and ambience? The mobs are like the npc, merely statues. Even if it were a single player game it'd be quite depressing.

[Mordith]

i kno there the top game developer. d3 is also soonish......... thus swtor die's ... gj bioware

 

As of right now, there are two placeholder dates set for D3: 2/1/12, and 1/17/12. Keep in mind that these are PLACEHOLDER DATES.

 

Source? I worked for GameStop up until this fall (worked at that store since 1998, and it was Babbage's Software before it got bought out). Still don't believe that? Go ask any game retailer or game media rep (except IGN, who can't tell a release date from a hole in their head).

 

Another fact: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic sold out more than 1.6 million copies in its 1st month of sales (1.5 million in the US, 100,000 in the UK). A good chunk of those who loved that game have been asking BW to do something like this for years. Now it's here, and it's not going anywhere.

 

Business fact: BW won't sit on their butts and cease to develop their game that just garnered over 1 million copies and rising. They have an obligation to refine and further develop this game and will not take a back seat to that responsibility. And before you say it, NO: Talking how 1, 10, 100, 1000 people don't like the game / are quitting after their free period's up doesn't represent the entire population.

[Rikalonius]

i kno there the top game developer. d3 is also soonish......... thus swtor die's ... gj bioware

 

Yeah, everyone knows the brother of the wife of someone who works at a gaming company. D3 soonish. Good thing, it's only been ten years of waiting.

[iMate]

As of right now, there are two placeholder dates set for D3: 2/1/12, and 1/17/12. Keep in mind that these are PLACEHOLDER DATES.

 

Source? I worked for GameStop up until this fall (worked at that store since 1998, and it was Babbage's Software before it got bought out). Still don't believe that? Go ask any game retailer or game media rep (except IGN, who can't tell a release date from a hole in their head).

 

Another fact: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic sold out more than 1.6 million copies in its 1st month of sales (1.5 million in the US, 100,000 in the UK). A good chunk of those who loved that game have been asking BW to do something like this for years. Now it's here, and it's not going anywhere.

 

Business fact: BW won't sit on their butts and cease to develop their game that just garnered over 1 million copies and rising. They have an obligation to refine and further develop this game and will not take a back seat to that responsibility. And before you say it, NO: Talking how 1, 10, 100, 1000 people don't like the game / are quitting after their free period's up doesn't represent the entire population.

 

i sure hope they further develop their game... i did put up $70 bucks for it.. maybe when they fix it ill re sub.. till then .. no way

[princey]

massive amount of loading screens. CHECK

 

You expect to go from planet to ship to space to another planet, land, and get out of your ship without a loading screen? Expect to load into a FP without a loading screen? Expect to get into a WZ without a loading screen? The planet themselves are seamless. Everything else is an issue in pretty much every MMO. You get a load screen when you enter instance, when you change planets (or continents), and when you enter a BG. Loading screens don't make it less of an MMO.

 

 

non responsive pvp. CHECK

 

Haven't PVPed since beta (it was fine then except for lag, but I fail to see how the existence of lag means it's not an MMO.

 

game made for 2001. CHECK

 

Wow. Just...wow. Exaggerate much?

[iMate]

You expect to go from planet to ship to space to another planet, land, and get out of your ship without a loading screen? Expect to load into a FP without a loading screen? Expect to get into a WZ without a loading screen? The planet themselves are seamless. Everything else is an issue in pretty much every MMO. You get a load screen when you enter instance, when you change planets (or continents), and when you enter a BG. Loading screens don't make it less of an MMO.

 

 

 

 

Haven't PVPed since beta (it was fine then except for lag, but I fail to see how the existence of lag means it's not an MMO.

 

 

 

Wow. Just...wow. Exaggerate much?

 

i never said it wasn't a mmo. its a mmo just a bad one atm.

 

as for the load screens.. eq has less screens then this and thats what 50000 years old? a

[princey]

eq has less screens then this and thats what 50000 years old? a

 

That's blatantly untrue and you know that. Or you're trying to troll.

[Skeelol]

I'll give you a couple of tips why this doesn't feel like an MMO:

 

- Tons of loading screens which don't really create a believable connected world (i know it's alot of planets so they have to have loading screens but that's only an excuse, it's simply an issue that makes it feel disconnected)

 

- No night / day cycle (yes i realize it's cumbersome since it's different planets and whatnot but still nothing changes, it's so static and fake)

 

- Lots of linear environments, planets like nar shaddaa being nothing but corridors, even the planets are linear because it's basically 1 big box you can't go out of and connect with other things and you're just stuck in its' corridors (the pathways and such), no surprise there's no flying mounts of any kind and there won't ever be

 

- Some planets are huge but empty, got tons of examples

 

a) planet hangars which are huge and in some areas there's absolutely no npcs at all

b) planet areas which are huge as well but the mobs are spread out so much that you can go 2-3 minutes at times riding on your speederbike without meeting either a mob/npc or player

c) lack of ambiental sounds to create a living breathing world

d) the sharding / instancing system splitting the world even further apart (the number of players in your corner is the total unlike others might say, you can even cross chat with other shards proved by the fact that i saw chat from other instance's players which i invited afterwards for a group quest)

e) extreme npcs pop-in (go in the cantina on tatooine for ex, i can see characters popping in almost in front of me breaking immersion completely)

 

- Unclear endgame content, mmos thrive on end game and they need good heroics/raids to keep players subbing to the game and forming communities

 

- Lack of LFD which actually doesn't help with socializing because instead of exploring the world and being queued at the same time (you know, playing having fun) you're stuck in the city spamming for 30-1h-2h for a tank/healer and you're literally stuck there (there's also no global lfg channel to help)

 

- Lack of server -based forums which means no tight communities being formed, no guild progression topics, no way for newcomers to see what's going on on X server and decide if it suits them, no way for them to find a guild that suits them etc

 

There's more but i won't write everything i find wrong with this game. Fact is it doesn't feel like an MMO at all. And if things don't change fast (i doubt) it will go f2p asap.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Skeelol

[iMate]

That's blatantly untrue and you know that. Or you're trying to troll.

 

wasn't so much a troll.. i was just trying to show my point... to many loading screens for a 2012 game. if its not to many for u .. awesome.. but i can't handle spending so much time looking at a loading screen...

 

kills the feeling of a mmo for me... feels to single player

[princey]

Snip

 

Aaaah, so your definition of an MMO is a sandbox with a day/night cycle and lots of NPCs walking around. I won't argue the LFD point. Spamming doesn't help socialize. A galactic LFG channel would be acceptable, though. Server based forums are coming.

 

So, if the game doesn't meet your criteria for what makes an MMO, then it's doomed to F2P.

 

 

wasn't so much a troll.. i was just trying to show my point... to many loading screens for a 2012 game. if its not to many for u .. awesome.. but i can't handle spending so much time looking at a loading screen...

 

kills the feeling of a mmo for me... feels to single player

 

 

Wait, I don't get it. Loading screens make it feel single player. Just what are you doing that makes you spend so much time in a loading screen, getting off and on your ship? If you queue and requeue for PvP, that should be expected. It's like that in any MMO.

Edited December 25, 2011 by princey

[Skeelol]

Aaaah, so your definition of an MMO is a sandbox with a day/night cycle and lots of NPCs walking around. I won't argue the LFD point. Spamming doesn't help socialize. A galactic LFG channel would be acceptable, though. Server based forums are coming.

 

So, if the game doesn't meet your criteria for what makes an MMO, then it's doomed to F2P.

 

Well, part of being a successful MMO is creating a living breathing world for players to feel immersed in. Bioware doesn't manage that.

[Jhonen]

Well, part of being a successful MMO is creating a living breathing world for players to feel immersed in. Bioware doesn't manage that.

 

I feel plenty immersed, no problems here.

 

I do however notice some of the things you pointed out, but on a much smaller scale.

 

It also seems to me that most of the things you find wrong with the game BioWare can easily fix.

[princey]

Well, part of being a successful MMO is creating a living breathing world for players to feel immersed in. Bioware doesn't manage that.

 

I'm going to use an example of a successful MMO. Bear with me, it's going to be WoW. I'm not saying that you like WoW, that you should go play WoW, or that WoW sucks. I am using it to illustrate a point.

 

When I played WoW, I never saw anything that made the gameworld a living and breathing space. It was hardly immersive. Silence and walls of text aren't immersive. Pop-culture references aren't immersive. Never once in my time there did I walk by some NPCs engaged in an audible conversation. Never did an NPC speak to me in a conversation that was any more interactive than "Accept/Decline".

 

In my opinion, Blizzard doesn't manage what you suggest with WoW, yet it remains a wildly "successful MMO" after seven years.

Edited December 25, 2011 by princey

[iMate]

I'm going to use an example of a successful MMO. Bear with me, it's going to be WoW. I'm not saying that you like WoW, that you should go play WoW, or that WoW sucks. I am using it to illustrate a point.

 

When I played WoW, I never saw anything that made the gameworld a living and breathing space. It was hardly immersive. Silence and walls of text aren't immersive. Pop-culture references aren't immersive. Never once in my time there did I walk by some NPCs engaged in an audible conversation. Never did an NPC speak to me in a conversation that was any more interactive than "Accept/Decline".

 

In my opinion, Blizzard doesn't manage what you suggest with WoW, yet it remains a "successful MMO" after seven years.

 

good gameplay > being immersed everytime baby.

[dannyboi]

I think what i agree most with is this:

Cities are dull empty shells.

 

Although I think that SWTOR is no worse then any other Bioware title or MMO out there in this area, I feel whats missing most are small details to fill the empty space.

 

Example: I was at a club at Nar Shadda, and there was absolutely no music. Just ambient noises. There wasn't even any sounds from the people. You could only here the sounds from distant machines. It makes the game feel empty.

 

I'd love to see improvements in this area.

[dronepilot]

The whole game is linear.

 

<- Already lv50 SI Sorc Healer.

 

There is absolutely no reason to go back to any of the planets.

* Hopefully they expand them and add RvR into the game.

 

Not entirely true. You can re play heroic missions, you wont get much XP for them, but you can certainly pick up more loot and creds. It would be nice though to be able to replay Heroic missions you already completed several levels ago, to be able to go back and play them again on a harder setting, - considering you are very much higher than when you first did the heroic mission.

 

Also I hope they are working on new content that WILL give you some thing more beneficial to return to those planets for, such as new crisis missions etc.

 

My two cents.

Edited December 25, 2011 by dronepilot

[princey]

good gameplay > being immersed everytime baby.

 

Ah well, then TOR has nothing to worry about then, at least in my opinion. It succeeds on both sides of that comparison.

[Jhonen]

good gameplay > being immersed everytime baby.

 

ToR has very fluid, dynamic, responsive, and consistent gameplay.

 

I'd like to think the above statement is hardly subjective.

[iMate]

Ah well, then TOR has nothing to worry about then, at least in my opinion. It succeeds on both sides of that comparison.

 

clunky combat doesn't qualify for good game play in my books. but whatever floats your boat i guess..

[iMate]

ToR has very fluid, dynamic, responsive, and consistent gameplay.

 

I'd like to think the above statement is hardly subjective.

 

DYNAMIC LOL... where???? they have quests with talking.. not dynamic

[princey]

clunky combat doesn't qualify for good game play in my books. but whatever floats your boat i guess..

 

That's your opinion and your experience. *shrug* It's been fine for me, and loads of other people. *prepares for inevitable attack at the use of an ambiguous quantifier*