Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Galactic Alliance vs Phantom Hegemony

[Beniboybling]

I support you Beni! I am rooting for the PH all the way. But space isn't my forte and my time is (as always) limited. I'll pitch in when I can!

Yay! Lawls.

[Aurbere]

It was not a hunch, as Trench said "I have dealt with its kind before."

 

I suppose its an assumption to say that Grievous has also dealt with its kind, and knows how to deal with them, though he is a superior tactician. However lets not forget Imperial Intelligence, who have schematics on the Phantom itself.

 

Put Grievous in contact with them (which can be achieved instantly and securely thanks to the Munificents) and they can no doubt inform him of the TIE Phantom's weaknesses and how to counter it, I expect this would be among the intel.

 

Bear in mind that every tri-fighter is armed with discord missiles, and one hit could prove fatal for a Phantom.

 

P.S. There are two types of stealth devices, one is crap and useless and one is not, I suspect they are using the latter.

 

This is a good point. I'm certain that if the Phantoms attack, their image will be picked up by scanners. Then Grievous can send it to the Hegemony's Intel service to get some info from them.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Aurbere

[Silenceo]

I suppose its an assumption to say that Grievous has also dealt with its kind, and knows how to deal with them, though he is a superior tactician. However lets not forget Imperial Intelligence, who have schematics on the Phantom itself.

 

 

Lets agree to disagree here.

 

Don't want to say more, since that would derail the thread, and it can be saved for if we ever face each other.

[Beniboybling]

This is a good. I'm certain that if the Phantoms attack, their image will be picked up by scanners. Then Grievous can send it to the Hegemony's Intel service to get some info from them.

Indeed, I misread the tri-fighter speed however, they are fast but not as fast as the Phantoms. However the difference is negligible so I doubt it will hinder their effectiveness. They were after all able to keep pace with Jedi interceptors.

[karadron]

Lets agree to disagree here.

 

Don't want to say more, since that would derail the thread, and it can be saved for if we ever face each other.

 

Further derailment:

 

Did Beni just say that Grievous was better than Trench? Blasphemy!

 

If anything Trench is a better battlefield commander than Grievous.

[Aurbere]

Further derailment:

 

Did Beni just say that Grievous was better than Trench? Blasphemy!

 

If anything Trench is a better battlefield commander than Grievous.

 

Lol, no.

[Wolfninjajedi]

OMG! Such miss spread information and Kara, why you no use ...'them'?! But I'll straighten everything out with my sourcebook knowledge.

 

Another thing....why is it that Jaina has to go into the Malevolence alone?

 

I'll get to that in a minute, I'm back folks for another month so you all have me! I returned mostly cause I couldn't take the misinformation spreading....on another thread though, not so much here and among other things.

 

But i'll get to all this in a minute.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Further derailment:

 

Did Beni just say that Grievous was better than Trench? Blasphemy!

 

If anything Trench is a better battlefield commander than Grievous.

Indeed, which is why Trench was appointed Supreme Commander of the... oh wait.

[Beniboybling]

OMG! Such miss spread information and Kara, why you no use ...'them'?! But I'll straighten everything out with my sourcebook knowledge.

 

Another thing....why is it that Jaina has to go into the Malevolence alone?

 

I'll get to that in a minute, I'm back folks for another month so you all have me! I returned mostly cause I couldn't take the misinformation spreading....on another thread though, not so much here and among other things.

 

But i'll get to all this in a minute.

Good to see you back Wolf.

 

Choose your allegiance wisely.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Good to see you back Wolf.

 

Choose your allegiance wisely.

 

Don't fret, I has info for you too to help.

[Aurbere]

OMG! Such miss spread information and Kara, why you no use ...'them'?! But I'll straighten everything out with my sourcebook knowledge.

 

Another thing....why is it that Jaina has to go into the Malevolence alone?

 

I'll get to that in a minute, I'm back folks for another month so you all have me! I returned mostly cause I couldn't take the misinformation spreading....on another thread though, not so much here and among other things.

 

But i'll get to all this in a minute.

 

Welcome back Wolf.

[Beniboybling]

OK, so I'd like to expand on the storm commando strategy, I've already explained how it will work if Gilad is not aboard his flagship, but for a moment lets assume he is not and it is a decoy. Firstly Lumiya will likely suspect such a move, at the very least she will ensure her troops are thorough and have them get a visual on the bridge. After all Lumiya is hoping that by eliminating the Chimera she will eliminate Gilad and win the Kaggath. It is essential his death is confirmed.

 

Anyway, so it turns out Gilad is not there, the Storm Commandos immeditately establish covert contact with Lumiya and explain the situation, she thinking quickly makes a change of plans and orders them to take the bridge.

 

Why? Because once the bridge is under their control they can trace the communications Gilad is no doubt relaying to the rest of his fleet and pin-point his location. Then all Lumiya has to do is send a back-up squad to eliminate that ship too.

 

Assuming that it is Garm, rather than Gilad commanding the Chimera, then he will be eliminated too, leaving the Alliance commandless. And without their direction incapable of performing the strategies laid out by the opposition. In such circumstances they will undoubtly succumb to Grievous' straightforward yet effective offensive.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Alright so...where to begin....boarding parties..

 

Beni

 

His Storm Commandos will be fine with space operations and boarding actions.

 

As regular Stormtroopers, they are trained for boarding actions...

 

Stormtroopers perform both space based and ground based duties, perfectly at home with both ship boarding and planetary assault.

 

- Taken from Rebel SpecForce Handbook

 

Then taking into account that Storm Commandos are Special Forces, they are trained for different types of terrain including space.

 

The elite units have been trained for special terrain, including, but not limited to, radiation conditioned areas, underwater and space operations. As such they often face smaller scale missions, such as commando raids.

 

- Taken from Galaxy Guide 9: Fragments from the Rim.

 

So they are trained for space boarding/actions from regular Stormtrooper training and then add more ontop of the Commando training.

 

Then you have it, if speed is nessecary, the leader of the Commando unit can carry a Light Repeating Blaster(such as a T-21) or a Grenade Launcher.

 

Assault units carry 2 concussion grenades as well as the unit commander's choice of heavier weaponry(where speed is of the essence, light repeating weapons and/or grenade launchers may be used to retain mobility).

 

- Taken from Galaxy Guide 9: Fragments from the Rim

 

This is additional equipment that they can carry, for standard they carry blaster carbine(most likely E-11 carbine) and blaster pistol with standard utility belt.

 

Considering Beni only had 40 though....best to use them sparingly for this. Anyway moving on...

========

 

I'll go over fighters in a few.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Don't mean to be a bummer, but I think Zero-G assault stormtroopers would be too elite as opposed to specialised to be aloud by the ruling. Though perhaps not for the light variant, though that will be down to Aurbere to decide.

 

That said, as a general argument against boarding parties I raise the following points.

 

1. Each and every warship in the Hegemony fleet is equipped with point-defense laser cannons, and a bulk of tri-fighters will be held back to act as a fighter screen, unless the enemy gets in close I doubt boarding pods will get through.

 

2. Both the Munificents and the Recuscants are very skeletal in appearance, providing less surface area to target.

 

3. The most important vessels in the fleet will be protected by Carbonite war droids, one of these alone would be more than enough to wipe out an entire platoon of stormtroopers, rebel troopers and even zero-G troopers.

 

And concerning Storm Commandos, being on high alert is one thing, but no starship is going to have anything but light sensors detecting movement about the ship. So I really don't see what or who is going to detect them.

[Aurbere]

The spacetroops come from the 501st, right?

[Wolfninjajedi]

Don't mean to be a bummer, but I think Zero-G assault stormtroopers would be too elite as opposed to specialised to be aloud by the ruling. Though perhaps not for the light variant, though that will be down to Aurbere to decide.

 

That said, as a general argument against boarding parties I raise the following points.

 

1. Each and every warship in the Hegemony fleet is equipped with point-defense laser cannons, and a bulk of tri-fighters will be held back to act as a fighter screen, unless the enemy gets in close I doubt boarding pods will get through.

 

2. Both the Munificents and the Recuscants are very skeletal in appearance, providing less surface area to target.

 

3. The most important vessels in the fleet will be protected by Carbonite war droids, one of these alone would be more than enough to wipe out an entire platoon of stormtroopers, rebel troopers and even zero-G troopers.

 

And concerning Storm Commandos, being on high alert is one thing, but no starship is going to have anything but light sensors detecting movement about the ship. So I really don't see what or who is going to detect them.

 

Beni....all Stormtroopers are elite troops, the Zero Gs are specialized Stormtroopers, trained for space related things. The Empire had specialized Stormtroopers for various terrains and the like.

 

But if they aren't allowed, then fair enough.

 

1. True, but boarding pods, not really gonna be needed as they do also have heavy transports.

 

2. Fair enough but....doesn't make them immune to boarding.

 

3. Carbonite war droids cannot take out a full platoon of anything, sure they have a carbonite cannon but that isn't exactly a long range weapon and the projectiles are rather slow to hit. Not to mention, it's not like they can't be flanked and taken out.

 

Just saying, Storm Commandos can be detected by a determined scan and they aren't exactly invisible to the human eye. Eventually they would get noticed, in that event that hardly means they are done for, you're relying too much on stealth here....it's good...but not really needed considering their training and equipment.

[Wolfninjajedi]

The spacetroops come from the 501st, right?

 

In Star Wars? No they are just Stormtroopers.

 

Here? I guess, though does Kara have the Stormtroopers and 501st?...Or just Stormtroopers?

Edited October 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Beni....all Stormtroopers are elite troops, the Zero Gs are specialized Stormtroopers, trained for space related things. The Empire had specialized Stormtroopers for various terrains and the like.

 

But if they aren't allowed, then fair enough.

 

1. True, but boarding pods, not really gonna be needed as they do also have heavy transports.

 

2. Fair enough but....doesn't make them immune to boarding.

 

3. Carbonite war droids cannot take out a full platoon of anything, sure they have a carbonite cannon but that isn't exactly a long range weapon and the projectiles are rather slow to hit. Not to mention, it's not like they can't be flanked and taken out.

 

Just saying, Storm Commandos can be detected by a determined scan and they aren't exactly invisible to the human eye. Eventually they would get noticed, in that event that hardly means they are done for, you're relying too much on stealth here....it's good...but not really needed considering their training and equipment.

The point is though that they are more elite than the average Stormtrooper, they are not simply a variant, like a Scout Trooper or a Jumptrooper, they are notably more advanced. Else we'd be allowing things like Delta Squad and the like.

 

But in this case it is not my decision to make.

 

1. I was including craft under that argument, which should be even easier to shoot down considering they are larger and slower. Against a horde of tri-fighters they simply wouldn't stand a chance.

 

2. True, but is decreases the likelihood and size of boarding parties.

 

3. No platoon will see it coming, if the targets fail to get out of the way they could easily take out a dozen or so with one wide spray. No weaponry they possess will be able to penetrate that shield, a swing of which can take out a dozen more.

 

Unless they are prepared, they will succumb to shock and be slaughtered.

 

4. I'm relying on skill as well, moving unseen is more than about slapping on a stealth device and go, the very training you mention will make them adapt at avoiding the human eye. Couple that with the fact that B2s are proving a distraction, that they have a full layout of the ship and perhaps even patrol rotas (thanks to I.I) and it will be a cake walk.

 

Worse case scenario, they are forced to eliminate a target and hide the body en route.

 

P.S. Avoiding detection will be vital if they want to ensure Gilad/Iblis does not escape alive.

 

EDIT: Bearing in mind that Asajj Ventress, who lacked half of those advantages, did not even need a cloaking device to sabotage the ship and rescue Nute Gunray, avoiding detection with stealth will be infinitely less of a challenge.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

In Star Wars? No they are just Stormtroopers.

 

Here? I guess, though does Kara have the Stormtroopers and 501st?...Or just Stormtroopers?

They are Stormtroopers of the 501st i.e. 501st Stormtroopers. Edited October 13, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

The point is though that they are more elite than the average Stormtrooper, they are not simply a variant, like a Scout Trooper or a Jumptrooper, they are notably more advanced. Else we'd be allowing things like Delta Squad and the like.

 

But in this case it is not my decision to make.

 

1. I was including craft under that argument, which should be even easier to shoot down considering they are larger and slower. Against a horde of tri-fighters they simply wouldn't stand a chance.

 

2. True, but is decreases the likelihood and size of boarding parties.

 

3. No platoon will see it coming, if the targets fail to get out of the way they could easily take out a dozen or so with one wide spray. No weaponry they possess will be able to penetrate that shield, a swing of wish can take out a dozen more.

 

Unless they are prepared, they will succumb to shock and be slaughtered.

 

4. I'm relying on skill as well, moving unseen is more than about slapping on a stealth device and go, the very training you mention will make them adapt at avoiding the human eye. Couple that with the fact that B2s are proving a distraction, that they have a full layout of the ship and perhaps even patrol rotas (thanks to I.I) and it will be a cake walk.

 

Worse case scenario, they are forced to eliminate a target and hide the body en route.

 

Yes, but they kind of have to be more advanced in terms of equipment considering the job description, but shall wait till Aurbere calls.

 

1. Heavy transports are usually....heavily armed and armored with shields, thick hulls, laser cannons and so on. Easily taking them down...not likely.

 

2. They don't have to taken out the shield, again flanking maneuvers could work and they do have the range on the War Droid which needs to get in close to make a wide spread of carbonite.

 

There is also this glaring weakness on said War Droid, with the back canister. Destroy that with blaster shots and that thing goes boom and no more war droid. Or a well placed grenade.

 

4. Right they will be great at avoiding detection, but not for 100% of the time.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Wolfninjajedi]

They are Stormtroopers of the 501st i.e. 501st Stormtroopers.

 

Ah.....well then crap, forget everything I just mentioned if it's the 501st.....they didn't have anything in terms of specialized Stormtroopers or anything.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Ah.....well then crap, forget everything I just mentioned if it's the 501st.....they didn't have anything in terms of specialized Stormtroopers or anything.

 

If this is the case, then I don't see the GA having spacetroopers.

[Wolfninjajedi]

If this is the case, then I don't see the GA having spacetroopers.

 

Hence why I said forget everything I said. Although this means, that the GA has no specialized Stormtroopers at all, ah well...that sucks, eh least the ground is good for all kinds.

 

Which means all the info I gave you Karadron....useless, sorry. XD Thought you just had Stormtroopers not the 501st..

 

Although I do have some info regarding Rebel SpecForce, so you're not completely out of info...will get that set.

 

After I do the fighter thing.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Yes, but they kind of have to be more advanced in terms of equipment considering the job description, but shall wait till Aurbere calls.

 

1. Heavy transports are usually....heavily armed and armored with shields, thick hulls, laser cannons and so on. Easily taking them down...not likely.

 

2. They don't have to taken out the shield, again flanking maneuvers could work and they do have the range on the War Droid which needs to get in close to make a wide spread of carbonite.

 

There is also this glaring weakness on said War Droid, with the back canister. Destroy that with blaster shots and that thing goes boom and no more war droid. Or a well placed grenade.

 

4. Right they will be great at avoiding detection, but not for 100% of the time.

I prefer the term specialized.

 

1. Any heavy transport capable of withstanding the firepower of multiple tri-fighters and point-defense cannons will be slow enough to be targeted by turbolaser cannons. On top of that they'd have to cut through the hull to gain access, seeing as the Hegemony's warships aside from the Malevolence possess no hangars, making them sitting ducks.

 

2. As I say, shock factor will render them incapable of reacting fast enough. Remembering we are dealing with small corridors here, a single war droid could block such a corridor completely, making them impossible to flank. As an additional point, the smoke produced by the carbonite gun seriously reduces visibility.

 

I'm afraid that is weakness that applies only the the incinerator war droid, which I opted not to take.

 

3. As I say, worst case scenario...

[Aurbere]

I forget, didn't carbonite war droids have a tendency to freeze themselves in TFU II?