Star Wars Rebels

[Wolfninjajedi]

Aside from the fact that all power was centralised in a small group of key figures, who upon their deaths lead to the Empire's immediate collapse. The Empire was as stable as Nazi Germany, which for many reasons wasn't that stable.

 

Yeah except the Empire ain't Nazi Germany. Based on it?...Yeah, but it seems far more stable. A well oiled machine if you will, least until those pesky webels ruined it.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Nah I've just realized a long time ago, that looking at it...the Empire isn't all bad. It's questionable to be sure, but it's not bad, if anything by looking at it from a different POV. The Rebel Alliance were the bad guys, considering they were rebelling against the galactic government.

 

It's all how you view it really, but this has been said idk how many times over. But yeah...the Empire is good.

The Galactic Empire is/was built on questionable and in most cases morally deplorable principles, that led to the advocation of a slew of unforgivable atrocities such as slavery, xenophobia, genocide and more run of the mill vices such as corruption and repression of basic freedoms. At its core it was a broken, injust system from my point of view.

 

On top of that, the governmental structure just wasn't sustainable. You can't really build a government on infighting, there were so many political pawns and redundant agencies, just excess that wouldn't be necessary in any other case.

 

So that makes it all bad, and I don't believe the ends justify the means.

 

Also, concerning the Rebels, I draw your attention to that oft quoted quote: "If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law."

 

You get the idea, I don't think the Rebel actions can't really be undercut at all from that position.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

Superweapons that can destroy worlds in moments, bioweapons that can quickly wipe out a planet's populace, oppression and enslavement of non-human species, indoctrination and brainwashing of soldiers into mindless drones, a philosophy based on spreading fear across the galaxy, and a leader that is the very epitome of evil.

 

Yeah, the Empire is swell.

[Beniboybling]

Yeah except the Empire ain't Nazi Germany. Based on it?...Yeah, but it seems far more stable. A well oiled machine if you will, least until those pesky webels ruined it.

It was heavily based on Nazi Germany, further developed by the EU, and all the key characteristics are there.

 

This article for example, is quite revealing:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Ruling_Council

 

Add to that again, that the Empire had a life-span equal to Palpatine's. Sure the "pesky webels ruined it" but sooner or later Palpatine was going to hit the bucket one way or another, and as soon as that happened the Empire is history.

 

Is that really anyway to build a galactic government? It was doomed to fail from inception.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

The Galactic Empire is/was built on questionable and in most cases morally deplorable principles, that led to the advocation of a slew of unforgivable atrocities such as slavery, xenophobia, genocide and more run of the mill vices such as corruption and repression of basic freedoms. At its core it was a broken, injust system from my point of view.

 

On top of that, the governmental structure just wasn't sustainable. You can't really build a government on infighting, there were so many political pawns and redundant agencies, just excess that wouldn't be necessary in any other case.

 

So that makes it all bad, and I don't believe the ends justify the means.

 

Also, concerning the Rebels, I draw your attention to that oft quoted quote: "If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law."

 

You get the idea, I don't think the Rebel actions can really be undercut at all from that position.

 

Eh the GE wasn't that xenophbic, you had aliens working within the Empire as technicians, scouts and the like. Slavery there was some yes, genocide?...You have an instance? Even if, it doesn't seem like there would be much of it otherwise, I don't think people would like them at all.

 

There wasn't really that much infighting compared to the other governments before it though.

 

As I said, when you look at it from a different POV(in this case an Imperial citizen) the Rebels are the bad guys.

[Wolfninjajedi]

It was heavily based on Nazi Germany, further developed by the EU, and all the key characteristics are there.

 

This article for example, is quite revealing:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Ruling_Council

 

Add to that again, that the Empire had a life-span equal to Palpatine's. Sure the "pesky webels ruined it" but sooner or later Palpatine was going to hit the bucket one way or another, and as soon as that happened the Empire is history.

 

Is that really anyway to build a galactic government? It was doomed to fail from inception.

 

Considering Palps had a plan to essentially live forever, him kicking the bucket wasn't likely. Even if he did, then Vader would have taken over.

 

But there probably isn't a real way to have a galactic government no...or at least in SW, other sci fi universe, the governments seem to be ok.

 

Also peoples, got 10 more days till my sub runs out.

 

So...if anyone needs any info in regards to vehicles/tech/troops/droids, I'm open for PMs.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[BrianDavion]

the Empire Stable? ROFLMAO! the Empire is FAR from stable. The Republic had 1000 years of peace and stability. the empire lasted 30 years fighting a insurgency for the vast bulk of that time. that's pretty much the definition of a failed state. and the empire had TONS of corruption

[Wolfninjajedi]

the Empire Stable? ROFLMAO! the Empire is FAR from stable. The Republic had 1000 years of peace and stability. the empire lasted 30 years fighting a insurgency for the vast bulk of that time. that's pretty much the definition of a failed state. and the empire had TONS of corruption

 

Yes the Republic did, but then it all turned upside down and had a bunch of problems. The Empire was fine up until the Rebellion got involved, there wasn't really any corruption considering the Senate was disbanded. The only thing you really had were a couple of instances, but nothing huge.

 

But anyway, time to move on.

 

New episode tomorrow!

 

I'm rather hoping this doesn't become a lightsaber infested show.

 

I mean ya sure so far we only have Kanan and the Inquistor with lightsabers...buuut....new characters could come along and they could have lightsabers.....I like lightsabers and everything, but I don't want this to become a rave.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Eh the GE wasn't that xenophbic, you had aliens working within the Empire as technicians, scouts and the like. Slavery there was some yes, genocide?...You have an instance? Even if, it doesn't seem like there would be much of it otherwise, I don't think people would like them at all.

 

There wasn't really that much infighting compared to the other governments before it though.

 

As I said, when you look at it from a different POV(in this case an Imperial citizen) the Rebels are the bad guys.

"When have I ever shown myself to be intolerant of species indifferences? Yes, our army is human, I am human, and most of my advisers and military officers are human. But that is merely the result of circumstance."

 

So said Palpatine

 

The Empire was notoriously xenophobic, they openly promoted human superiority via groups such as COMPNOR and even went as far as to abolish Rights of Sentience clause that labelled all species equal. Any guesses why?

 

Because Palpatine perceived a widespread though suppressed xenophobic attitude in the galactic community to be a tool he could exploit to his own ends. Not only does it provide scapegoats but brainwashing sense of community.

 

Erm, ever heard of Alderaan? Falleen? Caamas? Despayre? Callos? The instances are countless. And the galaxy is a big place, the Empire has entire bureaus practically dedicated to keeping this stuff under wraps.

 

Considering Palpatine not only advocated but encouraged it, making it integral to the political system. I'd say the Galactic Empire was the most corrupt and plague by the most infighting, since the resurgent Sith Empire.

 

Well, from those Imperial citizens brainwashed by COMPNOR.

[Beniboybling]

Considering Palps had a plan to essentially live forever, him kicking the bucket wasn't likely. Even if he did, then Vader would have taken over.

 

But there probably isn't a real way to have a galactic government no...or at least in SW, other sci fi universe, the governments seem to be ok.

 

Also peoples, got 10 more days till my sub runs out.

 

So...if anyone needs any info in regards to vehicles/tech/troops/droids, I'm open for PMs.

A plan that failed, and was far from bullet proof.

 

And yeah... Vader. No way.

 

I disagree, the Republic at its core is a just and functionable system, it just so happens it is often misled by corruption and other injustices, but these are not inherent to the system, and is the best the galaxy has ever had.

[Wolfninjajedi]

"When have I ever shown myself to be intolerant of species indifferences? Yes, our army is human, I am human, and most of my advisers and military officers are human. But that is merely the result of circumstance."

 

So said Palpatine

 

The Empire was notoriously xenophobic, they openly promoted human superiority via groups such as COMPNOR and even went as far as to abolish Rights of Sentience clause that labelled all species equal. Any guesses why?

 

Because Palpatine perceived a widespread though suppressed xenophobic attitude in the galactic community to be a tool he could exploit to his own ends. Not only does it provide scapegoats but brainwashing sense of community.

 

Erm, ever heard of Alderaan? Falleen? Caamas? Despayre? Callos? The instances are countless. And the galaxy is a big place, the Empire has entire bureaus practically dedicated to keeping this stuff under wraps.

 

Considering Palpatine not only advocated but encouraged it, making it integral to the political system. I'd say the Galactic Empire was the most corrupt and plague by the most infighting, since the resurgent Sith Empire.

 

Well, from those Imperial citizens brainwashed by COMPNOR.

 

Alright point, forgot about those instances. Although point.

 

The Empire didn't like aliens sure, but they did have them in the the Empire, some worked for Imperial Intelligence, some were scouts(Shistavanens), how about Thrawn? Palps advisers? There were aliens in the Empire, it wasn't completely xenophobic to the point where they didn't allow aliens at all, is my point.

 

But moving on.

[Wolfninjajedi]

A plan that failed, and was far from bullet proof.

 

And yeah... Vader. No way.

 

I disagree, the Republic at its core is a just and functionable system, it just so happens it is often misled by corruption and other injustices, but these are not inherent to the system, and is the best the galaxy has ever had.

 

Right it only failed because of certain circumstances, not just because.

 

Also why not Vader?

 

Sure it is, but it still turned over and it was the longest lasting, but that's only because the others never really get a chance to last as long.

 

But moving on...again.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

I don't think Vader really possess any political skills, at all.

 

I mean come on Anakin Skywalker for Chancellor? I don't think so.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I don't think Vader really possess any political skills, at all.

 

I mean come on Anakin Skywalker for Chancellor? I don't think so.

 

He could always learn? Or hire people for political dealings.

[Beniboybling]

He could always learn? Or hire people for political dealings.

By the time he did the Empire would have collapsed, and Vader would probably be dead.

[Wolfninjajedi]

By the time he did the Empire would have collapsed, and Vader would probably be dead.

 

Collapsed from what? Also dying?...Force Users can live a long *** time...so...dunno on that.

[Beniboybling]

Collapsed from what? Also dying?...Force Users can live a long *** time...so...dunno on that.

Well Palpatine holds all the political power, so the same thing that happened post-Endor would happen here. In Vader's case it would be trying to stop of jenga tower from collapsing. Any in terms of dying, consider that pratically everyone in the political aspect of the Empire percieves Vader as Palpatine's hitman, nothing more than a thug, nobody is going to consider him as Palpatine's successor, and everyone is going to be gunning for the throne.

 

Simply put, they will all attempt to remove Vader, who has without Palpatine become nothing more than an irksome obstacle, from the picture, by killing him. Sure Vader is tough, but how many assassination attempts can he survive.

 

At the very least, he will be rendered powerless, and forced into an exile of sorts.

 

And if you think Vader will have the support of the military, I draw your attention to the Force choke.

 

I mean seriously without Palpatine the guy has no friends, save the 501st, no backers, none.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well Palpatine holds all the political power, so the same thing that happened post-Endor would happen here. In Vader's case it would be trying to stop of jenga tower from collapsing. Any in terms of dying, consider that pratically everyone in the political aspect of the Empire percieves Vader as Palpatine's hitman, nothing more than a thug, nobody is going to consider him as Palpatine's successor, and everyone is going to be gunning for the throne.

 

Simply put, they will all attempt to remove Vader, who has without Palpatine become nothing more than an irksome obstacle, from the picture, by killing him. Sure Vader is tough, but how many assassination attempts can he survive.

 

At the very least, he will be rendered powerless, and forced into an exile of sorts.

 

And if you think Vader will have the support of the military, I draw your attention to the Force choke.

 

I mean seriously without Palpatine the guy has no friends, save the 501st, no backers, none.

 

Vader is seen as the 2nd most powerful man in the galaxy, why would anyone challenge him or see him as a lowly hitman? The only reason the Empire collasped was because both Palpatine, Vader and the huge vacuum of a ton of officers dying aboard the Executor, and the fact morale just went straight into the ground, was the cause of all that.

 

If Palps just died?....Not the same thing, Vader would most likely take command of it and he certainly has the backing of his entire fleet and the Imperial officers at his back(namely Veers and Piett) while also including the 501st.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Vader is seen as the 2nd most powerful man in the galaxy, why would anyone challenge him or see him as a lowly hitman? The only reason the Empire collasped was because both Palpatine, Vader and the huge vacuum of a ton of officers dying aboard the Executor, and the fact morale just went straight into the ground, was the cause of all that.

 

If Palps just died?....Not the same thing, Vader would most likely take command of it and he certainly has the backing of his entire fleet and a couple of Imperial officers at his back while also including the 501st.

Vader is seen as the 2nd most powerful man in the galaxy for one reason, and one reason alone, because he is the right hand man of the most powerful man in the galaxy, without that man Vader has no power.

 

The fact is everyone knows this, they only follow his orders because they are effectively the orders of the Emperor. I really don't think without the Emperor Vader has any real political power, nor do I feel he will be missed.

 

I mean just think, what would happen to the Empire if Vader died? Politically, nothing much. And ultimately, Vader is just not in a position to man the vast political framework that Palpatine has built up around himself, not Vader.

 

P.S. I can say with absolute certainty everyone aboard the Executor could be replaced in a heartbeat. Not Palpatine.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Vader is seen as the 2nd most powerful man in the galaxy for one reason, and one reason alone, because he is the right hand man of the most powerful man in the galaxy, without that man Vader has no power.

 

The fact is everyone knows this, they only follow his orders because they are effectively the orders of the Emperor. I really don't think without the Emperor Vader has any real political power, nor do I feel he will be missed.

 

I mean just think, what would happen to the Empire if Vader died? Politically, nothing much. And ultimately, Vader is just not in a position to man the vast political framework that Palpatine has built up around himself, not Vader.

 

P.S. I can say with absolute certainty everyone aboard the Executor could be replaced in a heartbeat. Not Palpatine.

 

Except for the power of The Force at his back.

 

Politically, yeah I can agree he has no political power. But that doesn't mean that he couldn't run the Empire via some other means, yes by comparison everyone could be replaced on the Executor next to Palpatine.

[Beniboybling]

Except for the power of The Force at his back.

 

Politically, yeah I can agree he has no political power. But that doesn't mean that he couldn't run the Empire via some other means, yes by comparison everyone could be replaced on the Executor next to Palpatine.

 

And unfortunately, Vader is not in a position to Force choke everyone who holds this opinion.

 

In time perhaps, but as I said that is exactly what Vader doesn't have, time and experience.

[Wolfninjajedi]

 

And unfortunately, Vader is not in a position to Force choke everyone who holds this opinion.

 

In time perhaps, but as I said that is exactly what Vader doesn't have, time and experience.

 

Why wouldn't he have time? If just Palps died, this would still mean that Vader now has his political advisers which could help him with political dealings.

[Beniboybling]

Why wouldn't he have time? If just Palps died, this would still mean that Vader now has his political advisers which could help him with political dealings.

Vader has no political advisers, he has to carve out a powerbase for himself from scratch.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Vader has no political advisers, he has to carve out a powerbase for himself from scratch.

 

Right, he could take Palps political advisers seeing as they wouldn't have Palps anymore.

[Beniboybling]

Right, he could take Palps political advisers seeing as they wouldn't have Palps anymore.

Exactly, and if you read that article I posted you'd know that every one of Palpatine's advisers was loyal to him due to various reasons personal to Palpatine and Palpatine alone. This is why the system is defunct because without him everything falls to pots, and the advisers have no reason to be loyal anymore, to Vader or anyone.

 

Simply put, they would not follow Vader, and more likely attempt to kill him, or assist others in doing so.

 

This is the reality of the Galactic Empire's deplorable political system.