Star Wars Rebels

[Wolfninjajedi]

Why indeed? One wonders why the Republic even bothered with the Clone Army, when they could have just sent an army of Jedi to ragdoll them all. That said, that didn't end very well for them in the Geonosian Arena...

 

.....Really Beni?.....Because the Jedi weren't in that great a number to even be an Army.

[Beniboybling]

.....Really Beni?.....Because the Jedi weren't in that great a number to even be an Army.

Exactly, is a joke. Like Kanaan's powers. Edited October 30, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

Exactly, is a joke. Like Kanaan's powers.

 

I don't see how you think ragdolling 2 guys(they weren't even really ragdolled just picked up and then just pulled forward) who have no defense against The Force, is overpowered.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

I don't see how you think ragdolling 2 guys(they weren't even really ragdolled just picked up and then just pulled forward) who have no defense against The Force, is overpowered.

Well clearly you never will, so I'll agree to disagree.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well clearly you never will, so I'll agree to disagree.

 

Fair enough..

[tunewalker]

Ima Gunna Die was Jedi Master who for all we know experienced a semi-oneness state, performing Jedi Master level feats, I fail to see your point. Not a single Jedi Knight in the history of ever? A bold claim, which you know to be untrue.

 

It was excessive, as I said before Kanaan abilities are not only inconsistent in terms of power, but philosophy as well. Regardless of the fact that it was a super special cover mission, it is far from the Jedi way, nor was it necessary.

 

The Inquisitor didn't come across as unfocused to me, surely he would have had his defenses raised in the presence of a Jedi. And at the very least would have put a bit of effort into breaking his Force grip, which he failed to do.

 

Can you show me one Knight that couldnt do this, just one find an example some where in a book that didnt have known TK complications, average TK level knight that couldnt do this.

 

YOu cant because they dont exist.

 

 

Your focus determines your reality, he was focused on Ezra, 100% focused on ezra, back was turned to Kanaan. Focus Determines... reality, if your focus is on one thing, then you arent focusing on the other. If his focus is on Ezra he is not focused on defending against Kanaan.

 

 

Understand the Definition of "Focus" Also never seen some one who had a Force ability "started" on them that they could easily break out of. Kanaan was putting more effort to keeping him up there then the Inquisitor was putting on breaking. "focus determines.... Say it with me..... Reality"

 

 

Edit: the more I read the more I realize, you lack an understanding of the Force. Kanaan was clearly shown as Weaker then the Inquisitor. Only able to lift him do to the Inquisitor not paying attention to him. Being more powerful doesnt nor has it ever made you immune to your opponent "your Focus determines your reality" but Kanaan was able to do nothing else and he struggled just to keep him there.

 

The difference between random Master and Random Knight is rarely overall strength and more commonly mentality. "unfocused. undisciplined" What he did was noted as "excessive" "you arent playing around are you?"

 

"The Trial of Skill was one of the oldest trials in the battery of tests preferred by the Order. While the test did consist of numerous displays of lightsaber technique, the main thing that the battlemaster looked for when judging a potential Knight was their ability to avoid distraction through self-discipline. Before its formalization, the trial was made up of acrobatic feats, while using the Force to levitate objects in the midst of storms. As the test was incorporated into the more standard academy testing, the High Council required that each participant face off against some form of adversary, though the individual or individuals they faced varied in species or allegiance, and could be made of flesh and blood or a clever simulacrum created from archived data. In some cases, Padawans were forced to compete with the battlemaster in a duel, or even the Grand Master, and outlast their attacks. Other students might face many opponents, some of them attacking with a lightsaber, others manipulating perception or altering the environment in the chamber. Additionally, the Council could opt to use the simulacrum program and send any number of Sith Lords to test the stamina of a young Padawan.[1]"

 

The Jedi Trials should not be taken lightly. From dueling grand masters to preforming martial feats WHILE levetating objects, to dealing with your opponent levitating objects, and that is just the trial of Skill, one that all Jedi must pass if they are to be a knight. Yes ALL knights can do what Kanaan did, because that is part of the Trial of Skill. Its Mandatory, if they couldnt they would not be Knights.

Edited October 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[BrianDavion]

I'm not sure really where to put Kanan at tier wise yet. But what he has shown thus far, he has had shown trouble. He's hardly shown anything wow.

 

about all we know about him is that he was the padawan of a Council member. take from what what you will

[Beniboybling]

Can you show me one Knight that couldnt do this, just one find an example some where in a book that didnt have known TK complications, average TK level knight that couldnt do this.

 

YOu cant because they dont exist.

 

 

Your focus determines your reality, he was focused on Ezra, 100% focused on ezra, back was turned to Kanaan. Focus Determines... reality, if your focus is on one thing, then you arent focusing on the other. If his focus is on Ezra he is not focused on defending against Kanaan.

 

 

Understand the Definition of "Focus" Also never seen some one who had a Force ability "started" on them that they could easily break out of. Kanaan was putting more effort to keeping him up there then the Inquisitor was putting on breaking. "focus determines.... Say it with me..... Reality"

 

 

Edit: the more I read the more I realize, you lack an understanding of the Force. Kanaan was clearly shown as Weaker then the Inquisitor. Only able to lift him do to the Inquisitor not paying attention to him. Being more powerful doesnt nor has it ever made you immune to your opponent "your Focus determines your reality" but Kanaan was able to do nothing else and he struggled just to keep him there.

 

The difference between random Master and Random Knight is rarely overall strength and more commonly mentality. "unfocused. undisciplined" What he did was noted as "excessive" "you arent playing around are you?"

 

"The Trial of Skill was one of the oldest trials in the battery of tests preferred by the Order. While the test did consist of numerous displays of lightsaber technique, the main thing that the battlemaster looked for when judging a potential Knight was their ability to avoid distraction through self-discipline. Before its formalization, the trial was made up of acrobatic feats, while using the Force to levitate objects in the midst of storms. As the test was incorporated into the more standard academy testing, the High Council required that each participant face off against some form of adversary, though the individual or individuals they faced varied in species or allegiance, and could be made of flesh and blood or a clever simulacrum created from archived data. In some cases, Padawans were forced to compete with the battlemaster in a duel, or even the Grand Master, and outlast their attacks. Other students might face many opponents, some of them attacking with a lightsaber, others manipulating perception or altering the environment in the chamber. Additionally, the Council could opt to use the simulacrum program and send any number of Sith Lords to test the stamina of a young Padawan.[1]"

 

The Jedi Trials should not be taken lightly. From dueling grand masters to preforming martial feats WHILE levetating objects, to dealing with your opponent levitating objects, and that is just the trial of Skill, one that all Jedi must pass if they are to be a knight. Yes ALL knights can do what Kanaan did, because that is part of the Trial of Skill. Its Mandatory, if they couldnt they would not be Knights.

The absence of them performing these feats is my evidence, because that absence strongly suggests they are incapable and/or unwilling to perform these abiliites. Why? Because the ability to disarm and ragdoll anything that comes in your way is a much easier and more efficient means of dispatching an enemy that using a lightsaber.

 

EDIT: In light of Kanan being a Padawan, I'll provide the following evidence.

 

Ashoka performing TK on biological targets:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJQ07Bw0Ogg&t=0m55s

 

Notice the strain, and yet Kanan tosses around Stormtroopers like there is no tommorow, may I also add that Kanan manages to catch and lift Ezra back onto the Ghost despite falling several hundred feet? With little effort?

 

I'd also add that Ashoka at one point, struggles to perform a Jedi Mind Trick.

 

The fact that Kanan is older than Ashoka is irrelevant in my opinion, not only has Ashoka demonstrated above average potential but Kanan has been out of training and out of pratice for many years. If anything his powers should have diminished. That is at least what happened to Roan Shryne, a Jedi Knight know less, who in the ensuing years after Order 66 actually found that his powers diminished, and couldn't even perform basic TK.

 

It begs the question, if Kanaan can do this, why isn't everybody else?

 

1. Because it requires a lot of energy, and therefore leads to exhaustion.

 

2. It violates the tenets of the Jedi Code, being an abuse of one's power.

 

And yet Kanaan, a seemingly average (until this point) Jedi Knight, demonstrates no strain or signs of exhaustion when performing these feats and instead practically chains them with culpable ease.

 

The situation is no excuse for Kanaan's actions either, since when do the ends justify the means for a Jedi? These displays of power, which he really shouldn't be capable of, are unnecessary, his martial skills would have sufficed.

 

I fail to see how Kanaan being unfocused and undisciplined, which for the record he is not, would do anything to improve his ability to use the Force. Surely it would have the opposite effect? Regardless there is a reason that Jedi are taught to remain in a constant state of focus and discipline, so that there powers remain stable as well.

 

Concerning Kanaan vs the Inquisitor, I'll agree to disagree on that point and await further evidence.

 

And great, using TK in a state of meditation... I fail to see the point.

 

EDIT: In fact, it would appear that Kanan didn't even past the Jedi Trials!

 

P.S. There is no need to get frustrated here, we can have a civil discussion on this topic.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

about all we know about him is that he was the padawan of a Council member. take from what what you will

Wait, he's not even a Jedi Knight? Well great. Not even Ashoka is capable of these feats! Edited October 30, 2014 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

The absence of them performing these feats is my evidence, because that absence strongly suggests they are incapable and/or unwilling to perform these abiliites. Why? Because the ability to disarm and ragdoll anything that comes in your way is a much easier and more efficient means of dispatching an enemy that using a lightsaber.

 

EDIT: In light of Kanan being a Padawan, I'll provide the following evidence.

 

Ashoka performing TK on biological targets:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJQ07Bw0Ogg&t=0m55s

 

Notice the strain, and yet Kanan tosses around Stormtroopers like there is no tommorow, may I also add that Kanan manages to catch and lift Ezra back onto the Ghost despite falling several hundred feet? With little effort?

 

I'd also add that Ashoka at one point, struggles to perform a Jedi Mind Trick.

 

The fact that Kanan is older than Ashoka is irrelevant in my opinion, not only has Ashoka demonstrated above average potential but Kanan has been out of training and out of pratice for many years. If anything his powers should have diminished. That is at least what happened to Roan Shryne, a Jedi Knight know less, who in the ensuing years after Order 66 actually found that his powers diminished, and couldn't even perform basic TK.

 

It begs the question, if Kanaan can do this, why isn't everybody else?

 

1. Because it requires a lot of energy, and therefore leads to exhaustion.

 

2. It violates the tenets of the Jedi Code, being an abuse of one's power.

 

And yet Kanaan, a seemingly average (until this point) Jedi Knight, demonstrates no strain or signs of exhaustion when performing these feats and instead practically chains them with culpable ease.

 

The situation is no excuse for Kanaan's actions either, since when do the ends justify the means for a Jedi? These displays of power, which he really shouldn't be capable of, are unnecessary, his martial skills would have sufficed.

 

I fail to see how Kanaan being unfocused and undisciplined, which for the record he is not, would do anything to improve his ability to use the Force. Surely it would have the opposite effect? Regardless there is a reason that Jedi are taught to remain in a constant state of focus and discipline, so that there powers remain stable as well.

 

Concerning Kanaan vs the Inquisitor, I'll agree to disagree on that point and await further evidence.

 

And great, using TK in a state of meditation... I fail to see the point.

 

EDIT: In fact, it would appear that Kanan didn't even past the Jedi Trials!

 

P.S. There is no need to get frustrated here, we can have a civil discussion on this topic.

 

So wait Ahsoka could do EXACTLY the same until she had to deal with pain and was shot (you know loss of focus, outside interference something kanaan didnt have), so whats OP about Kanaan (A Knight) when Ahsoka (a Padawaan) could do EXACTLY the same thing... proving my point.

 

You have missed my point by a wide Margin. He is unfocused and Undisciplined meaning he is WEAKER then your average Jedi. Meaning your average Jedi can AND DID do more then he has here. As you love to say "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" As the trials pretty much make it MANDATORY that you are able to preform AT LEAST as capable as Kanaan in the force, this means EVERY KNIGHT EVER to exist is capable of equal if not GREATER feats then Kanaan has shown.

 

The Force does not work that way. Its not some energy bar that can be depleted those are game mechanics. All the Force requires to use is the Mental Focus, the only "exhausting" part of it is "Mental exhaustion" and that ONLY happens with prolonged usage (such as when Kanaan Lifts Ezra, assuming he lifted all that high and Hera didnt lower the ship, which is highly likely that BOTH accured.), and with proper training (Knight level training, see trial of Flesh) some one can off set those exhaustions long enough to finish and then spend days resting (see NJO knights, such as Luke, and Saba and many others, and Masters such as Obi-wan.) Short Force Pulls would not be Exhausting (IE "ragdolling" Storm Troopers) the exhausting parts were all shown, Him lifting Ezra (with 0 distraction and possible help from Hera and known help from Zeb, Distractions that happened to Ahsoka, she after all SUCCESSFULLY lifted one person with out injuring them and ALMOST lifted another, until pain acted as a distraction "your focus determines your reality") Him against the Inquisitor, of whom looked annoyed but unharmed, and opening the large and complex door mechanism and locking mechanism (no actual door was lifted, other wise it would have come crashing down the moment they stopped).

 

Why do people not use force powers against force users if a weaker person can hold up a stronger person to the ceiling. That should be obvious, Mental Exhaustion as I just said. You need the Force to fight well with a saber, as well as increasing speed and the like, which can cause both physical and mental exhaustion, if you end up using enough mental focus to hold a stronger opponent at bay (you cant kill them because even with Lesser focus they can hold that off pretty easily) that by the tim you are done you are mentally exhausted and your ability to concentrate and feel The Force around you has become limited, a confrontation with an opponent further would surely spell your doom, as your ability to be mentally stable enough to defend yourself is pretty much gone, your ab out ready to pass out.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzZcZp9r2kk 2:38-2:40 Also 2:45-2:47 clearly shows Kanaan while FOCUSED on the inquisitor is hit so hard with a Force Push it almost renders him unconcious and the Inquisitor calls him "unfocused and undisciplined" its clear the intent is that the Inquistitor is the stronger of the 2. they wanted to make a threatening villain, and the best way to do that is to show how much the villian out classes the best hero. Like Vader outclassed Luke in Episode V, the Inquisitor outclasses Kanaan.

 

I am not upset, I just am trying to open the eyes of every one this has always been the truth of things. Nothing has changed, its your perception that has been wrong this whole time. What I have been trying to tell you guys from the word go, about what the Force is, how the Force works, what it means to be Jedi, what it Means to be Sith. The show is showing it time and again, whats getting in your way now has been the same thing its always been, your own perception and believes. You have been watching and enjoying the action of Jedi's and Force users, but miss understanding the mystical elements.

 

The Force is an energy field created by all living things, it takes focus and concentration to hear, understand and harnass that is all. Being "more powerful" is only a sign that you are able to hear, and understand it better. A knight, is no push over, nor have they ever been. If Kanaan is not a full fledged Knight, it doesnt change anything, he hasnt shown abilities beyond Knighthood any way. The problem is not his powers, but your belief that Knights are weaker then him, when they have always been stronger. The difference between your Average knight and your Average Master is not usually large. Most Knights are on par with Master Di, and that was no moment of oneness a Moment of oneness would allow a Master to wipe out entire armies, as it always has, that was natural ability, that is a Jedi.

Edited October 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Wait, he's not even a Jedi Knight? Well great. Not even Ashoka is capable of these feats!

 

Every Knight was a Padawaan at one point. Anakin was a Padawaan to Obi-wan, Obi-wan a Padwaan to Quigon, Quigon a Padawaan to Dooku and Dooku a Padawaan to Yoda. Saying a knight was a Master's Padwaan is like saying the Knight was Born.

Edited October 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

Every Knight was a Padawaan at one point. Anakin was a Padawaan to Obi-wan, Obi-wan a Padwaan to Quigon, Quigon a Padawaan to Dooku and Dooku a Padawaan to Yoda. Saying a knight was a Master's Padwaan is like saying the Knight was Born.

No it actual says on Wookieepedia (sourced) he is a Padawan, he never completed his training. Edited October 30, 2014 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

No it actual says on Wookieepedia (sourced) he is a Padawan, he never completed his training.

 

Ok, well doesnt change my point. Ahsoka could do the same things he is doing. She DID do the same things, only she had a distraction that caused a drop, and Kanan just lost Focus, which caused a drop, so in that Respect Ahsoka> Kanaan, and with my statement that kanan is intended to be (and is) WEAKER then most Jedi well guess what.

 

Ya Jedi were always this strong always able to, and when the situation demanded it, always did. Its still the same, the only difference is that your perception has been wrong since the word go and if CANNON sources cant get you to realize that, you wonder why I felt that Argueing it here with you was a waste of time. Trying to change your incorrect perception was a waste of time. All I am hearing right now is

 

 

Edit: the information available does suggest that like Ahsoka at the end Kanaan was close to taking (and likely completing) his trials. He Is still on Average Weaker then your Average Knight from what I have seen any way... so ya there you have it, like I said its part of the Trials, if you cant preform AT least as well as Kanan, then you are not knight material, and thus arent a knight, kanan isnt above average, he is below average. Now that you understand that, give a hand to your average Knight because they are awesome, even better then Kanan.

Edited October 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

So wait Ahsoka could do EXACTLY the same until she had to deal with pain and was shot (you know loss of focus, outside interference something kanaan didnt have), so whats OP about Kanaan (A Knight) when Ahsoka (a Padawaan) could do EXACTLY the same thing... proving my point.

 

You have missed my point by a wide Margin. He is unfocused and Undisciplined meaning he is WEAKER then your average Jedi. Meaning your average Jedi can AND DID do more then he has here. As you love to say "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" As the trials pretty much make it MANDATORY that you are able to preform AT LEAST as capable as Kanaan in the force, this means EVERY KNIGHT EVER to exist is capable of equal if not GREATER feats then Kanaan has shown.

 

The Force does not work that way. Its not some energy bar that can be depleted those are game mechanics. All the Force requires to use is the Mental Focus, the only "exhausting" part of it is "Mental exhaustion" and that ONLY happens with prolonged usage (such as when Kanaan Lifts Ezra, assuming he lifted all that high and Hera didnt lower the ship, which is highly likely that BOTH accured.), and with proper training (Knight level training, see trial of Flesh) some one can off set those exhaustions long enough to finish and then spend days resting (see NJO knights, such as Luke, and Saba and many others, and Masters such as Obi-wan.) Short Force Pulls would not be Exhausting (IE "ragdolling" Storm Troopers) the exhausting parts were all shown, Him lifting Ezra (with 0 distraction and possible help from Hera and known help from Zeb, Distractions that happened to Ahsoka, she after all SUCCESSFULLY lifted one person with out injuring them and ALMOST lifted another, until pain acted as a distraction "your focus determines your reality") Him against the Inquisitor, of whom looked annoyed but unharmed, and opening the large and complex door mechanism and locking mechanism (no actual door was lifted, other wise it would have come crashing down the moment they stopped).

 

Why do people not use force powers against force users if a weaker person can hold up a stronger person to the ceiling. That should be obvious, Mental Exhaustion as I just said. You need the Force to fight well with a saber, as well as increasing speed and the like, which can cause both physical and mental exhaustion, if you end up using enough mental focus to hold a stronger opponent at bay (you cant kill them because even with Lesser focus they can hold that off pretty easily) that by the tim you are done you are mentally exhausted and your ability to concentrate and feel The Force around you has become limited, a confrontation with an opponent further would surely spell your doom, as your ability to be mentally stable enough to defend yourself is pretty much gone, your ab out ready to pass out.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzZcZp9r2kk 2:38-2:40 Also 2:45-2:47 clearly shows Kanaan while FOCUSED on the inquisitor is hit so hard with a Force Push it almost renders him unconcious and the Inquisitor calls him "unfocused and undisciplined" its clear the intent is that the Inquistitor is the stronger of the 2. they wanted to make a threatening villain, and the best way to do that is to show how much the villian out classes the best hero. Like Vader outclassed Luke in Episode V, the Inquisitor outclasses Kanaan.

 

I am not upset, I just am trying to open the eyes of every one this has always been the truth of things. Nothing has changed, its your perception that has been wrong this whole time. What I have been trying to tell you guys from the word go, about what the Force is, how the Force works, what it means to be Jedi, what it Means to be Sith. The show is showing it time and again, whats getting in your way now has been the same thing its always been, your own perception and believes. You have been watching and enjoying the action of Jedi's and Force users, but miss understanding the mystical elements.

 

The Force is an energy field created by all living things, it takes focus and concentration to hear, understand and harnass that is all. Being "more powerful" is only a sign that you are able to hear, and understand it better. A knight, is no push over, nor have they ever been. If Kanaan is not a full fledged Knight, it doesnt change anything, he hasnt shown abilities beyond Knighthood any way. The problem is not his powers, but your belief that Knights are weaker then him, when they have always been stronger. The difference between your Average knight and your Average Master is not usually large. Most Knights are on par with Master Di, and that was no moment of oneness a Moment of oneness would allow a Master to wipe out entire armies, as it always has, that was natural ability, that is a Jedi.

So you did not perceive the obvious difficulty and as you put it, mental exhaustion Ashoka was experiencing that Kanan did not when performing, as you say, "exactly the same thing"? Really? Was it not quite obvious?

 

And I'm dealing with the part before she was shot, obviously, considering that broke her concentration totally.

 

Fact is based on the evidence we have to hand, Kanan would have been able to lift Steela, probably one handed, within seconds, well before the gunship had a chance to take a shot. Which makes little sense considering his status.

 

Though if we assume that Ashoka is stronger than Kanan, then there is no way he could have lifted Ezra over a distance more than ten times that of Ashoka, without being totally exhausted, Ashoka was at her limit just from lifting Steela to her height (before the gunship took its shot, rendering it a non-factor), how could Kanan have possibly lifted Ezra more than ten times higher without experiencing ten times the amount of strain and dropping him to his death?

 

He is unfocused and undisciplined according to the Inquisitor, who was clearly using Dun Moch. I personally do not take that as a valid source and considering Kanan's attitude and performance so far, do not believe it for a second. Bearing when I said absence it was a mere choice of words, in fact in that absence is a presence, empirically speaking, because it is saying something i.e. evidence, it says that these are feats they cannot regularly perform else they would.

 

On the other hand I have yet to see evidence that suggests otherwise, the Jedi Trials being countered and now voided.

 

I'm not sure what your point is regarding mental exhaustion, that is exactly what I'm referring to here. These feats should have mentally exhausted Kanan al la Ashoka. I agree, this only occurs after prolonged usage.

 

But the fact is though time and ability are inextricably bound up, the time it takes to perform a feat is totally bound to your ability. For one person lifting a heavy object takes seconds, for another weaker person it could take minutes, and that prolonged exposure would result in them becoming exhausted and potentially failing. But what needs to be taken away from this is that that mental exhaustion is rooted not in the time it took, but in the ability of the person themselves.

 

Simply put, Ashoka did not strain because it took longer for her to lift Steela, she strained because she was not strong enough to lift Steela quickly, result in prolonged exposure. Whereas Kanan seems strong enough to cut this time in half. When really those feats should have required prolonged concentration and therefore exhausted him. Time and subsequently exposure, is a link in a chain and should not be treated as you are treating it as root of a person's ability.

 

That said, we shouldn't assume that mental concentration begins as the feat is performed, the user has to build up energy first to initially interact with their environment and that takes both time and concentration i.e. exposure. Though again the weaker you are, the longer it takes, and so the more you are exposed, and more exhausted you become.

[Beniboybling]

Ok, well doesnt change my point. Ahsoka could do the same things he is doing. She DID do the same things, only she had a distraction that caused a drop, and Kanan just lost Focus, which caused a drop, so in that Respect Ahsoka> Kanaan, and with my statement that kanan is intended to be (and is) WEAKER then most Jedi well guess what.

 

Ya Jedi were always this strong always able to, and when the situation demanded it, always did. Its still the same, the only difference is that your perception has been wrong since the word go and if CANNON sources cant get you to realize that, you wonder why I felt that Argueing it here with you was a waste of time. Trying to change your incorrect perception was a waste of time. All I am hearing right now is

 

Ever heard of the phrase, "agree to disagree", lecturing me about how I'm wrong and not worth your time does not improve your position, nor engender me towards it or yourself. So I'd politely request that you refrain from doing it.

[tunewalker]

So you did not perceive the obvious difficulty and as you put it, mental exhaustion Ashoka was experiencing that Kanan did not when performing, as you say, "exactly the same thing"? Really? Was it not quite obvious?

 

And I'm dealing with the part before she was shot, obviously, considering that broke her concentration totally.

 

Fact is based on the evidence we have to hand, Kanan would have been able to lift Steela, probably one handed, within seconds, well before the gunship had a chance to take a shot. Which makes little sense considering his status.

 

Though if we assume that Ashoka is stronger than Kanan, then there is no way he could have lifted Ezra over a distance more than ten times that of Ashoka, without being totally exhausted, Ashoka was at her limit just from lifting Steela to her height (before the gunship took its shot, rendering it a non-factor), how could Kanan have possibly lifted Ezra more than ten times higher without experiencing ten times the amount of strain and dropping him to his death?

 

He is unfocused and undisciplined according to the Inquisitor, who was clearly using Dun Moch. I personally do not take that as a valid source and considering Kanan's attitude and performance so far, do not believe it for a second. Bearing when I said absence it was a mere choice of words, in fact in that absence is a presence, empirically speaking, because it is saying something i.e. evidence, it says that these are feats they cannot regularly perform else they would.

 

On the other hand I have yet to see evidence that suggests otherwise, the Jedi Trials being countered and now voided.

 

I'm not sure what your point is regarding mental exhaustion, that is exactly what I'm referring to here. These feats should have mentally exhausted Kanan al la Ashoka. I agree, this only occurs after prolonged usage.

 

But the fact is though time and ability are inextricably bound up, the time it takes to perform a feat is totally bound to your ability. For one person lifting a heavy object takes seconds, for another weaker person it could take minutes, and that prolonged exposure would result in them becoming exhausted and potentially failing. But what needs to be taken away from this is that that mental exhaustion is rooted not in the time it took, but in the ability of the person themselves.

 

Simply put, Ashoka did not strain because it took longer for her to lift Steela, she strained because she was not strong enough to lift Steela quickly, result in prolonged exposure. Whereas Kanan seems strong enough to cut this time in half. When really those feats should have required prolonged concentration and therefore exhausted him. Time and subsequently exposure, is a link in a chain and should not be treated as you are treating it as root of a person's ability.

 

That said, we shouldn't assume that mental concentration begins as the feat is performed, the user has to build up energy first to initially interact with their environment and that takes both time and concentration i.e. exposure. Though again the weaker you are, the longer it takes, and so the more you are exposed, and more exhausted you become.

 

By difficulty Kanan "didnt" have you mean the fact that Kanan failed and dropped Ezra and was calling for Zeb to grab him. Are you even watching the same thing.

 

Ahsoka strained, because she had to lift her WITH OUT hurting her, meaning a percise amount of force needed to be used for lifting, she also just finished lifting some one else the same way... 100% successfully, do not mistake concentration needed for percise action as lack of strength, as she has flung MUCH heavier things around the room with ease.

 

Trials say they can regularly preform, and they do when the time calls for it. Simply put you are wrong, show me one jedi that tried and failed to do this. I know you cant because all Jedi can, the only reason they didnt is because there was a better way, or easier way or they were in a situation that doing such a thing ould have been more harmful then helpful.

 

and from what I am reading here, Absence of Evidence, is not evidence of absence, if and when YOU say. Wow talk about high on one's self. Proven wrong still giving the "I Dont believe it".

 

No matter what tone I take, you wont change, that's the point. People could go back, and focus on every knight in the order, show all of them, and show them all doing feats = to or better then kanan, and your response would still be the same. "I dont believe it"

 

yes Mental is dependent on the person AND how it used, Percision can cause as much if not MORE difficulty in concentration then strength. Ever heard the Phrase "I dont know my own strength" it usually comes from people accidentally using to much strength and either breaking something they were trying to fix, or hurting some one they were trying to help.

 

Keep watching, maybe you'll learn something about how strong the average knight is, but most likely you will just live in continual rage and denial. It is the very fact that you are even upset about this that proves exactly what I said, anyone trying to change your mind on how you percieve this stuff is wasting their time. There is no point to "argue" anything with you, you already made up your mind before even seeing the arguement. A Canon source doesnt even change it, instead it just fills you with anger, and leaves you in denial.

[tunewalker]

Oh something else I wanted to note. Did you guys catch the fact that they pretty much confirmed that All Jedi have more then 1 form they trained with and used.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzZcZp9r2kk 1:30

 

"close quarter fighting Balaba's EMPHASIS was always on form III, which you FAVOR to a rediculous degree" the words Emphasised, and FAVOR shows that more then 1 form is still being used, even if Form III is the one he is falling back on the most he still uses the others, and likely has them just as mastered, but like any martial artist, they fall back onto what they find most comfortable. Since its mostly reflexive.

Edited October 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

Oh something else I wanted to note. Did you guys catch the fact that they pretty much confirmed that All Jedi have more then 1 form they trained with and used.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzZcZp9r2kk 1:30

 

"close quarter fighting Balaba's EMPHASIS was always on form III, which you FAVOR to a rediculous degree" the words Emphasised, and FAVOR shows that more then 1 form is still being used, even if Form III is the one he is falling back on the most he still uses the others, and likely has them just as mastered, but like any martial artist, they fall back onto what they find most comfortable. Since its mostly reflexive.

 

All Jedi are given training with all lightsaber forms from the Jedi Battlemaster, that's been confirmed for quite some time.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

All Jedi are given training with all lightsaber forms from the Jedi Battlemaster, that's been confirmed for quite some time.

 

But this more confirms that a "practitioner" didnt ever JUST use that Form in combat, and its highly likely those Masters also mastered all 6 forms. So being a "master of all 7 forms or a Master of 6 forms" is kind of a given if you are a knight at this point, and doesnt really point ot anyting special.

[BrianDavion]

But this more confirms that a "practitioner" didnt ever JUST use that Form in combat, and its highly likely those Masters also mastered all 6 forms. So being a "master of all 7 forms or a Master of 6 forms" is kind of a given if you are a knight at this point, and doesnt really point ot anyting special.

 

there is a differance between being proficant and being a MASTER

[Beniboybling]

OK I'm just going to agree to disagree, because this is getting out of hand.

[Beniboybling]

there is a differance between being proficant and being a MASTER

This.

[Selenial]

there is a differance between being proficant and being a MASTER

 

This.

 

And the emphasis was on Ridiculous, not Favor, indicating 90% of Kanans style was form 3.

[Beniboybling]

This.

 

And the emphasis was on Ridiculous, not Favor, indicating 90% of Kanans style was form 3.

Yeah lets be honest, if every knight was a master of all seven forms then Cin Drallig would be a little redundant.

 

Bearing mind that Kanan is a Padawan.

[Silenceo]

Yeah lets be honest, if every knight was a master of all seven forms then Cin Drallig would be a little redundant.

 

Bearing mind that Kanan is a Padawan.

 

"Aren't you a little old to be a Padawan?" (Directed at Kanan)

 

Couldn't resist... Must of been held back due to his lack of restraint.