Star Wars Rebels

[tunewalker]

Yeah hence why he seems to be in the same ballpark as Kanan in terms of Force, although he outclasses Kanan in terms of martial combat imo.

 

Probably ya, so my statement largely stands. This is what the "average" Knight has always been capable of. Lets get some credit to those average Joes.

[Aurbere]

I don't think it was mostly a Kanan feat, he clearly needed Ezra's help with lifting the door otherwise I don't think there would be any point for him to be like

 

"Hey, focus, gotta get this door up yo."

 

I mean he struggled holding the Inquistor and nearly dropped Ezra earlier in the episode, so why would he mostly be the one to lift the door? Seemed more like a conjoined effort.

 

Also I'm getting really annoyed with having to keep relogging in over and over again on this site..

 

Ezra could barely lift a bowl, I think a massive door is a bit too much for him.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ezra could barely lift a bowl, I think a massive door is a bit too much for him.

 

He did push Agent Kallus quite abit away and he did lift a crate lid up some. Not much, but better than before.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Probably ya, so my statement largely stands. This is what the "average" Knight has always been capable of. Lets get some credit to those average Joes.

 

Ain't really nothin average about em.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

He did push Agent Kallus quite abit away and he did lift a crate lid up some. Not much, but better than before.

 

That Kallus bit seemed like a desperation thing.

[Wolfninjajedi]

That Kallus bit seemed like a desperation thing.

 

It did show great power/potential though.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

It did show great power/potential though.

 

Indeed. It will be interesting to see where it goes, especially under such unorthodox training conditions.

[Beniboybling]

Edit: also and Beni I think that again is your prejudice against the "average" force user. I dont think you are giving them enough credit. Yes I believe the Average Force user can pull off Force Pulling a couple people, or Force lifting a ungaurded force opponent. Especially the Average Knight that survived Order 66.

 

I have heard of untrained force Sensitives "pulling a kanaan" and dodging blaster bolts thinking they just got lucky but the force told them to move. I have yet to see a single Jedi NOT be able to Force pull a person or Force push them especially non Force sensitives completely unprepared for the sudden physical energy moving them. I think this still is an example of the lack of credit Average Knights receive, if anything in certain areas I would call him below average, others slightly above, and others spot on with average. Which is basically the definition of an Average knight to begin with, because every character, every knight is going to have some aspect of the force that they are REALLY good at, and some aspect of the force that they struggle with.

Well again I see no examples, the only Force powers we ever see average Jedi display in the Prequel Trilogy are basic Force pushes. Even high level Jedi Knights and Masters don't reguarly display these capabilities.

 

The absence of them using this powers suggested they cannot considering how useful they would be.

 

And my inferences are based on evidence, I don't believe I'm prejudiced against this group at all.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well again I see no examples, the only Force powers we ever see average Jedi display in the Prequel Trilogy are basic Force pushes. Even high level Jedi Knights and Masters don't reguarly display these capabilities.

 

The absence of them using this powers suggested they cannot considering how useful they would be.

 

And my inferences are based on evidence, I don't believe I'm prejudiced against this group at all.

 

Why are you going off the PT movies? It wasn't about showing off, it was about telling a story and there weren't really many average Jedi on screen to watch anyway for a great deal of time.

[Beniboybling]

Why are you going off the PT movies? It wasn't about showing off, it was about telling a story and there weren't really many average Jedi on screen to watch anyway for a great deal of time.

I'm confused, your saying that Rebels isn't about telling a story?

 

The movies and TCW are the highest level of canon, so they are the most accurate.

 

The absence of Jedi Kanaan's level is irrelevant, the fact is Jedi superior to Kanaan in ability aren't performing these powers, and if this is something Kanaan does on a regular basis we should expect a lot more from them.

 

Not even touching on his ability to Force grip the Inquisitor, which suggests he is significantly more powerful.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

I'm confused, your saying that Rebels isn't about telling a story?

 

The movies and TCW are the highest level of canon, so they are the most accurate.

 

The absence of Jedi Kanaan's level is irrelevant, the fact is Jedi superior to Kanaan in ability aren't performing these powers, and if this is something Kanaan does on a regular basis we should expect a lot more from them.

 

Not even touching on his ability to Force grip the Inquisitor, which suggests he is significantly more powerful.

 

It is, but Rebels can tell more than a movie can being a TV show, it also isn't live action so it can do more.

 

What powers? TK? There was plenty use of TK in the movies, it just wasn't thrown around all willy nilly.

 

Also the PT movies are already out, so were not gonna be seeing them do anything anymore...they also have shown to be superior to Kanan anyway on screen.

 

Episode 1= Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan, Force Speed, Qui-Gon using Force Push with ease on battle droids, Qui-Gon using Mind Trick. Obi-Wan using Force Jump for a great leap.

 

Episode 2= Anakin using Force Push/Pull with ease. Yoda deflecting Force Lighting and holding up stone column, Anakin using Beast Control, Anakin using Force Leap.

 

Episode 3= Obi-Wan using Force Push against Grevious, Yoda using TK on senate pods, Yoda using Force Absorb, Anakin using Force Leap and Push.

 

Even in the OT Luke showed way better Force feats than Kanan has thus far

 

Episode 5= Using Force Pull, TKing several objects and R2, seeing the future, Force leap, seeing things in slow motion. This being not even a fully trained Jedi yet.

 

 

So I'm sure they have shown themselves on screen to be more powerful and have done things Kanan hasn't done on a greater scale.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Well again I see no examples, the only Force powers we ever see average Jedi display in the Prequel Trilogy are basic Force pushes. Even high level Jedi Knights and Masters don't reguarly display these capabilities.

 

The absence of them using this powers suggested they cannot considering how useful they would be.

 

And my inferences are based on evidence, I don't believe I'm prejudiced against this group at all.

 

Examples. Several untrained people during NJO (to many to name).

 

 

 

1:02-1:04

 

I think you have selective memory. Basically every jedi ever shown could pull off these feats. Padawans maybe not, untrained people maybe not. But a full fledged Knight yep. Not a single Knight in existance cant do it.

 

 

"you really arent playing around are you?" Even Ezra noted the AMOUNT of times he used the force was a bit excessive, but the way he used it was always possible by every knight in existence. Not only was it possible, but it was done, just not all the time.

 

 

Edit: even in the end their "your focus determines your reality" he faltered when his focus on what he was doing Faltered. Just like so many times stronger Force Users get thrown about by weaker ones, because they werent focused on their enemy.

 

So much emphasis is placed on "focusing" ones mind, the ability or loss of ability with the force is all dependent on Focus, same with their ability with a blade, offensively and defensively. "your focus determines your reality."

Edited October 29, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

It is, but Rebels can tell more than a movie can being a TV show, it also isn't live action so it can do more.

 

What powers? TK? There was plenty use of TK in the movies, it just wasn't thrown around all willy nilly.

 

Also the PT movies are already out, so were not gonna be seeing them do anything anymore...they also have shown to be superior to Kanan anyway on screen.

 

Episode 1= Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan, Force Speed, Qui-Gon using Force Push with ease on battle droids, Qui-Gon using Mind Trick. Obi-Wan using Force Jump for a great leap.

 

Episode 2= Anakin using Force Push/Pull with ease. Yoda deflecting Force Lighting and holding up stone column, Anakin using Beast Control, Anakin using Force Leap.

 

Episode 3= Obi-Wan using Force Push against Grevious, Yoda using TK on senate pods, Yoda using Force Absorb, Anakin using Force Leap and Push.

 

Even in the OT Luke showed way better Force feats than Kanan has thus far

 

Episode 5= Using Force Pull, TKing several objects and R2, seeing the future, Force leap, seeing things in slow motion. This being not even a fully trained Jedi yet.

 

 

So I'm sure they have shown themselves on screen to be more powerful and have done things Kanan hasn't done on a greater scale.

More than CGI and a Hollywood budget? I don't follow.

 

I'd talking about twin Force ragdolling, one of which required a significant degree of manipulation to get them to collide with his fists, followed by pinning a powerful Force User to a ceiling with a Force grip.

 

The basic pushes and pulls in the Prequel Trilogy, are inferior displays to this, performed by superior masters. And as for the OT, TK on a large scale in a state of meditation and a few Padawan level abilities is not exactly impressive.

 

Luke being the son of the Chosen One and all.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Examples. Several untrained people during NJO (to many to name).

 

 

 

1:02-1:04

 

I think you have selective memory. Basically every jedi ever shown could pull off these feats. Padawans maybe not, untrained people maybe not. But a full fledged Knight yep. Not a single Knight in existance cant do it.

 

 

"you really arent playing around are you?" Even Ezra noted the AMOUNT of times he used the force was a bit excessive, but the way he used it was always possible by every knight in existence. Not only was it possible, but it was done, just not all the time.

 

 

Edit: even in the end their "your focus determines your reality" he faltered when his focus on what he was doing Faltered. Just like so many times stronger Force Users get thrown about by weaker ones, because they werent focused on their enemy.

 

So much emphasis is placed on "focusing" ones mind, the ability or loss of ability with the force is all dependent on Focus, same with their ability with a blade, offensively and defensively. "your focus determines your reality."

Ima Gunna Die was Jedi Master who for all we know experienced a semi-oneness state, performing Jedi Master level feats, I fail to see your point. Not a single Jedi Knight in the history of ever? A bold claim, which you know to be untrue.

 

It was excessive, as I said before Kanaan abilities are not only inconsistent in terms of power, but philosophy as well. Regardless of the fact that it was a super special cover mission, it is far from the Jedi way, nor was it necessary.

 

The Inquisitor didn't come across as unfocused to me, surely he would have had his defenses raised in the presence of a Jedi. And at the very least would have put a bit of effort into breaking his Force grip, which he failed to do.

[Wolfninjajedi]

More than CGI and a Hollywood budget? I don't follow.

 

I'd talking about twin Force ragdolling, one of which required a significant degree of manipulation to get them to collide with his fists, followed by pinning a powerful Force User to a ceiling with a Force grip.

 

The basic pushes and pulls in the Prequel Trilogy, are inferior displays to this, performed by superior masters. And as for the OT, TK on a large scale in a state of meditation and a few Padawan level abilities is not exactly impressive.

 

Luke being the son of the Chosen One and all.

 

Yes because TV can show more than what a movie can, TV isn't really restricted to 1 or 2 hours. Plus animation is able to do a heck of a lot more than live action.

 

Right and it's not that out of realm for those characters to ragdoll for what they have shown.

 

It's still greater than what Kanan has shown, he has had trouble holding Ezra and holding the Inquistor.

 

Also we don't know how powerful the Inquistor is as of yet, so that feat isn't all that impressive, especially when again he was distracted with Ezra.

 

What does Luke being the son of the Chosen One have to do with anything? He still showed far greater levels of Force ability than Kanan has thus far and he wasn't even a fully trained Jedi during Episode 5, even before this whole Chosen One thing came about, so either way...Luke had great power.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Right and it's not that out of realm for those characters to ragdoll for what they have shown.

 

It's still greater than what Kanan has shown, he has had trouble holding Ezra and holding the Inquistor.

 

Also we don't know how powerful the Inquistor is as of yet, so that feat isn't all that impressive, especially when again he was distracted with Ezra.

 

What does Luke being the son of the Chosen One have to do with anything? He still showed far greater levels of Force ability than Kanan has thus far and he wasn't even a fully trained Jedi during Episode 5, even before this whole Chosen One thing came about, so either way...Luke had great power.

No, but they are more powerful. The fact that they don't use these powers however suggests they cannot do so with such nonchalant ease, or that its simply excessive.

 

I'll reserve judgement on the Inquisitor, but it makes little sense for Kanaan to be much stronger than him.

 

I means he can't be compared with Kanaan, and he really hasn't/didn't. Again Padawan level powers.

[Wolfninjajedi]

No, but they are more powerful. The fact that they don't use these powers however suggests they cannot do so with such nonchalant ease, or that its simply excessive.

 

I'll reserve judgement on the Inquisitor, but it makes little sense for Kanaan to be much stronger than him.

 

I means he can't be compared with Kanaan, and he really hasn't/didn't. Again Padawan level powers.

 

So him being able to lift several objects which is something shown that Kanan hasn't even done, says that he can't do what Kanan has done?....Really?

 

...Honestly Beni I don't see how/why you think ragdolling 2 non force sensitives is 'overpowered' and why Jedi Knights/Masters can't do it from the movies, just because they haven't shown it when they have shown greater skill than what Kanan has thus far.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

I agree with Beni, some of Kanan's displays of the Force are a bit excessive. Not everyone can throttle Stormtroopers with such ease. Heck, I only recall Mace Windu thrashing enemies in such a manner in TCW.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I agree with Beni, some of Kanan's displays of the Force are a bit excessive. Not everyone can throttle Stormtroopers with such ease. Heck, I only recall Mace Windu thrashing enemies in such a manner in TCW.

 

What displays?....His displays aren't anything special really, Obi-Wan also has force lifted and crushed 2 assassin droids with no strain.

 

You also have Anakin Force pushing Dooku in TCW and making dust storms which is a far greater showing that what Kanan did to the Inquistor.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

What displays?....His displays aren't anything special really, Obi-Wan also has force lifted and crushed 2 assassin droids with no strain.

 

You also have Anakin Force pushing Dooku in TCW and making dust storms which is a far greater showing that what Kanan did to the Inquistor.

 

Thrashing Stormtroopers about is excessive, and I would consider Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Dooku to be well above any Jedi Knight.

[Beniboybling]

What displays?....His displays aren't anything special really, Obi-Wan also has force lifted and crushed 2 assassin droids with no strain.

 

You also have Anakin Force pushing Dooku in TCW and making dust storms which is a far greater showing that what Kanan did to the Inquistor.

Exactly, so why are these powers being given to a two-bit Jedi Knight?

 

It depreciates everything we see in TCW and PT, these kind of displays should be reserved for Jedi Masters. Rebels has gone to a great effort of establishing Kanaan as a capable not powerful Jedi Knight who only gets out his lightsaber when necessary. And now he is is ragdolling/mind tricking every Stormtrooper he sees like a Mary Sue.

 

Toning down his powers would make for a much more interesting character, as opposed to someone who Stormtroopers pose no real threat, and can just be chucked out of the way with a wave of one's hand.

[Aurbere]

At this point, Stormtroopers are more of a threat to the Empire than they are to anyone else.

[Beniboybling]

At this point, Stormtroopers are more of a threat to the Empire than they are to anyone else.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Exactly, so why are these powers being given to a two-bit Jedi Knight?

 

It depreciates everything we see in TCW and PT, these kind of displays should be reserved for Jedi Masters. Rebels has gone to a great effort of establishing Kanaan as a capable not powerful Jedi Knight who only gets out his lightsaber when necessary. And now he is is ragdolling/mind tricking every Stormtrooper he sees like a Mary Sue.

 

Toning down his powers would make for a much more interesting character, as opposed to someone who Stormtroopers pose no real threat, and can just be chucked out of the way with a wave of one's hand.

 

Stormtroopers don't have any defense against The Force, so why wouldn't they be pushed out of the way easily?

[Beniboybling]

Stormtroopers don't have any defense against The Force, so why wouldn't they be pushed out of the way easily?

Why indeed? One wonders why the Republic even bothered with the Clone Army, when they could have just sent an army of Jedi to ragdoll them all. That said, that didn't end very well for them in the Geonosian Arena...