Aurbere Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I agree, and I believe it is what we should be focusing on. But the fact of the matter is, if Guri manages to bypass these traps, Kilran is dead, plain and simple. Well, look at what Kilran put in the way of our Republic heroes. Honestly, a single Sith with Kilran should be enough to take Guri out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Or Imperial Intelligence's counter intelligence leaves Black Sun as blind as the SIS. That's true. Because Imperial Intelligence tracks all the movements of the entire underworld. And it's so easy to find them and infiltrate them. Everyone knows where to find Black Sun. That's why they were so influential Kilran will die because he's prideful, 'cuz pirates? Why does that kind of reason keep coming up? Kilran is a proud man, but he isn't stupid. He's cautious, he prepares traps, he knows what he's doing. Just because these guys are pirates doesn't mean he's going to take a nap. Because the only time he technically lost was the same battle he died at. He has a hubris, and it is pride. When you think of pirates, do you think of a master assassin and some of the most deadly droids to ever exist? I doubt it. So the CIC doesn't care about its fighters, and will fire with them in the line of fire anyway? That's a morale boost... If it means they win, they will sacrifice soldiers. Would Kilran not kill a few men to secure victory? Almost every tactician has done something of this nature to win. It's war. not everyone will live. And if you can kill a few of yours to end it all, would you? Xizor and Kilran both would. Most people would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 1. I agree that the droids are tough to beat. That's why I love Separatist droids. They're awesome. However, we look over one crucial factor: Dooku. Yes, Dooku knows the CIC's droids and he knows how they work. His knowledge will be a boon to the Fist's ability to deal with the droids. 2. OK, fair point. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm dismissing boarding parties, because I'm not. They'll obviously happen. I, however, believe that the CIC will be careful in what they send.1. Yeah, I have to say. Dooku will likely know very little about the droids, he never fought on the front lines and to my knowledge never commanded any armies. However we have Ventress, Ventress is who Kilran will turn to for advise (and protection?) and I'm sure she'll know about Droidekas (though note this are the Mark II variant) and commando droids. B3s are still an issue however. 2. I just want to make sure you provide all the counter argument you can, tis all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) I need a whistles innocently smiley face... But nope. My job is to question your silly antics, you know this.That doesn't answer my question. I also don't recall ever appointing you to such a role... what is this a republic? Edited August 10, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) That's true. Because Imperial Intelligence tracks all the movements of the entire underworld. And it's so easy to find them and infiltrate them. Everyone knows where to find Black Sun. That's why they were so influential For an organization like Imperial Intelligence that was able to infiltrate every level of the Republic and even the Jedi Order? Yeah. And now they know where Black Sun's HQ is, imagine that. Because the only time he technically lost was the same battle he died at. He has a hubris, and it is pride. When you think of pirates, do you think of a master assassin and some of the most deadly droids to ever exist? I doubt it. Dooku. Dooku will make Kilran aware of the abilities of the droids and the skill of pirates. He knows the latter through personal experience. If it means they win, they will sacrifice soldiers. Would Kilran not kill a few men to secure victory? Almost every tactician has done something of this nature to win. It's war. not everyone will live. And if you can kill a few of yours to end it all, would you? Xizor and Kilran both would. Most people would. It's still not a morale boost. Their willingly firing on their own soldiers, and pirates are not patriotic by any means (unlike the Imperials). If the CIC starts killing its own men, prospective pirates are going to start questioning whether or not they're ready to die. After all, you can't spend your credits if your boss decides to kill you. Edited August 10, 2014 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 That doesn't answer my question. I also don't recall ever appointing you to such a role... what is this a republic? Pfft, that's the role of the three deputy Arbiters. I should know, I created them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Well, look at what Kilran put in the way of our Republic heroes. Honestly, a single Sith with Kilran should be enough to take Guri out.I never did that flashpoint, so you'll have to enlighten me. (Unless your talking about Esseles) I concur actually, I think a head on assault on the bridge will be very dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 1. Yeah, I have to say. Dooku will likely know very little about the droids, he never fought on the front lines and to my knowledge never commanded any armies. However we have Ventress, Ventress is who Kilran will turn to for advise (and protection?) and I'm sure she'll know about Droidekas (though note this are the Mark II variant) and commando droids. B3s are still an issue however. 2. I just want to make sure you provide all the counter argument you can, tis all. 1. Dooku was involved in the testing of the C-B3 and used Commando Droids regularly. Good point about Ventress, too. 2. Completely understand your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I never did that flashpoint, so you'll have to enlighten me. (Unless your talking about Esseles) I concur actually, I think a head on assault on the bridge will be very dangerous. It's been forever since I've done Taral V or Maelstrom Prison, or any other flashpoint, but he put a lot of effort into stopping four of the Republic's greatest heroes. Crazy Sith, big droids, entire armies, the whole nine yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) I never did that flashpoint, so you'll have to enlighten me. (Unless your talking about Esseles) I concur actually, I think a head on assault on the bridge will be very dangerous. Off the top of my head: A massive Tarentatek 3 Sith Lords A Sith Lord and his beast horde A Sith with a bird or something A massive droid who kicks *** A commander with stupid OP one shotting laser eyes. And a hell of a lot of Imp troops and droids. Edited August 10, 2014 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 That's true. Because Imperial Intelligence tracks all the movements of the entire underworld. And it's so easy to find them and infiltrate them. Everyone knows where to find Black Sun. That's why they were so influential I think the point Aurbere is making here (or at least the point he should be making) is that rather than going out and closing the eyes at their source, they merely shield the eyes from what they are trying to see. Simply put, if Black Sun tries to peer into the Fist's buisness, they will find themselves repelled by Sith Intelligence. However I'm wary about allowing intelligence operations to occur prior to the Kaggath, so this is a general point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I think the point Aurbere is making here (or at least the point he should be making) is that rather than going out and closing the eyes at their source, they merely shield the eyes from what they are trying to see. Simply put, if Black Sun tries to peer into the Fist's buisness, they will find themselves repelled by Sith Intelligence. However I'm wary about allowing intelligence operations to occur prior to the Kaggath, so this is a general point. Why? Canino gets to upgrade his ships, so why not intel? Seems fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 1. Dooku was involved in the testing of the C-B3 and used Commando Droids regularly. Good point about Ventress, too. 2. Completely understand your position.He was? I assumed it was a private venture of Tambor's, considering Sidious effectively shut it down. I'm glad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 For an organization like Imperial Intelligence that was able to infiltrate every level of the Republic and even the Jedi Order? Yeah. And now they know where Black Sun's HQ is, imagine that. Infiltrating the Republic is very different from infiltrating Black Sun. I'll just leave it at that. And do they? I doubt Imperial Intelligence knows to much about Durga. Hell, they won't know he is even a Vigo. Dooku. Dooku will make Kilran aware of the abilities of the droids and the skill of pirates. He knows the latter through personal experience. While true, that doesn't mean Kilran will tell his troops, or if they will listen. And I doubt many of your troops can exploit the weakness of a C-B3. It's still not a morale boost. Their willingly firing on their own soldiers, and pirates are not patriotic by any means (unlike the Imperials). If the CIC starts killing its own men, prospective pirates are going to start questioning whether or not they're ready to die. After all, you can't spend your credits if your boss decides to kill you. It isn't. But that would be at the end of the battle, or if absolutely necessary. They won't just shoot them for fun. It will be to secure victory. Don't take this out of context, please. Kilran, or any general, would do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I think the point Aurbere is making here (or at least the point he should be making) is that rather than going out and closing the eyes at their source, they merely shield the eyes from what they are trying to see. Simply put, if Black Sun tries to peer into the Fist's buisness, they will find themselves repelled by Sith Intelligence. However I'm wary about allowing intelligence operations to occur prior to the Kaggath, so this is a general point. Yep, that's the point I was making. Manipulation and deception are among the tools of Imperial Intelligence, they'll be able to undermine the Intelligence of the Black Sun. These aren't necessarily occurring before the Kaggath. Imperial Intelligence operated everywhere, I think even on Nar Shaddaa. If not, at least in Hutt Space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 He was? DO NOT QUESTION AURBERE ON DOOKU. He is the almighty, the chosen. None shall question his reign. *cowers in fear* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Why? Canino gets to upgrade his ships, so why not intel? Seems fair?As I have said to you already, intelligence operations i.e. actions, does not come under weapons or supplies. After all, if we allow intel, then why not all other activities? They are no different. On top of that, intelligence operations are actual blows against the enemy, we can hardly allow that before the Kaggath has even begun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Yep, that's the point I was making. Manipulation and deception are among the tools of Imperial Intelligence, they'll be able to undermine the Intelligence of the Black Sun. These aren't necessarily occurring before the Kaggath. Imperial Intelligence operated everywhere, I think even on Nar Shaddaa. If not, at least in Hutt Space. Imperial intelligence had a rather large operation on Nar Shadaa actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 He was? I assumed it was a private venture of Tambor's, considering Sidious effectively shut it down. I'm glad. He was indeed. He was there when Anakin attacked Metalorn. At least, he should have been, considering he had to invade Skywalker's mind to make him see a Doppelganger. Unless that Doppelganger was created through Sorcery, which is fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 DO NOT QUESTION AURBERE ON DOOKU. He is the almighty, the chosen. None shall question his reign. *cowers in fear* Did he? I don't see anything on him in the new essential guide to weapons... Aurbere, is it in there? If so, where? Not to be offensive, I'm just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 As I have said to you already, intelligence operations i.e. actions, does not come under weapons or supplies. After all, if we allow intel, then why not all other activities? They are no different. On top of that, intelligence operations are actual blows against the enemy, we can hardly allow that before the Kaggath has even begun. But Intel won't be blows against the Enemy until the Kaggath starts, it's basically the same as fitting weapons or getting supplies. Besides, of course the sides are prepping beforehand... Just seems logical. And yes, this is coming from someone without an intel agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) While true, that doesn't mean Kilran will tell his troops, or if they will listen. And I doubt many of your troops can exploit the weakness of a C-B3.Even B3s are probably quite stupid, that is a weakness. They might also be acting under a control signal, another weakness. Edited August 10, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Did he? I don't see anything on him in the new essential guide to weapons... Aurbere, is it in there? If so, where? Not to be offensive, I'm just curious The C-B3 isn't in the New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 But Intel won't be blows against the Enemy until the Kaggath starts, it's basically the same as fitting weapons or getting supplies. Besides, of course the sides are prepping beforehand... Just seems logical. And yes, this is coming from someone without an intel agency.By which point space will be already underway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) The C-B3 isn't in the New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology. Oops. I meant droids Silly me EDIT:Dooku was not there. It was clone of him. "A doppelgänger of Dooku, seemingly identical to the real Count Dooku although less adept in the Force, served the Confederacy of Independent Systems as one of the real Dooku's Dark Acolytes during the Clone Wars. It is later stated that Anakin defeats another clone of Dooku on Serenno. "Later in the war, Skywalker killed another clone of Dooku on Serenno, the real Count Dooku's home planet." Edited August 10, 2014 by Canino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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