Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Empire of Plagues vs Imperial Droid Division

[Aurbere]

Yeh, as well as slowing down.

 

More would carry on forward than back, but it'd spray in a 180 degree come in the front as well, on top of slowing down.

 

Well, then that's pretty much my final argument in a nutshell. Plus poor tactics on Lomi's part, but I think that's pretty obvious. Lomi isn't exactly a tactician, and I've always remembered the Killiks as a faction that Zerg-rushes. So I don't really see anything sophisticated coming from the AiR as far as tactics go.

[Canino]

I think any inadequacy by Trench will be made up for due to the fact that Killiks are using Vong tech, instead the Vong themselves.

It is their faction though. It would be stupid to assume that the naval officers of the faction cannot use their own ships to maximum efficiency.

[Selenial]

It is their faction though. It would be stupid to assume that the naval officers of the faction cannot use their own ships to maximum efficiency.

 

Its a two way street Canino.

 

But no, he'd know anything he can get from the Holonet, and the new republic publicised every victory against the Vong. But yeh, he'd know enough, like their weaponry being plasma etc.

 

[Silenceo]

I think Tune said he was going to write a full analysis and post it sometime today, so don't be too hasty.

[Beniboybling]

Leadership know general details about the enemy to specifically combat this problem Canino.

On the contrary:

 

#104 Combatants have limited knowledge of their opponents. They are only aware of the nature of the enemies Head of State and Second-in-Command, not their allies of whom they do not know exist, finally they are aware of the size and firepower of military forces.

 

So the fact that they are Vong wouldn't really come under that.

[Beniboybling]

I think any inadequacy by Trench will be made up for due to the fact that Killiks are using Vong tech, instead the Vong themselves.

The Killiks know how to pilot the ships.

[Selenial]

On the contrary:

 

#104 Combatants have limited knowledge of their opponents. They are only aware of the nature of the enemies Head of State and Second-in-Command, not their allies of whom they do not know exist, finally they are aware of the size and firepower of military forces.

 

So the fact that they are Vong wouldn't really come under that.

 

It specifically states Firepower, so the Plasma cannons and stuff, he'd know.

 

That's the only thing he'd really need to know to win.

 

However, we did find yet another reason why Beni's an idiot to allow Vong stuff.

 

#Winning.

[Selenial]

The Killiks know how to pilot the ships.

 

F*** it, I'm challenging this.

 

If the Killisk know how to pilot it, then that means the ships have been around long enough for the Killiks to learn their way around, which means Trench would know the basics of the Vessel.

 

If Trench knows nothing about these ships at all because they exist in a timeframe outside of his and he never saw them, then the Killiks have the exact same thing.

 

Otherwise, that's blatant displays of favoritism. At least be fair in your ridiculous attempts to stay biased Beni.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Selenial

[Warren-Stride]

Kaggath bends the rules in some places, makes rules in others. It's not meant to be the epitome of realism, it's meant to be fun.

 

Selenial, you need to slow your roll. And listen to your own advice.

[Beniboybling]

F*** it, I'm challenging this.

 

If the Killisk know how to pilot it, then that means the ships have been around long enough for the Killiks to learn their way around, which means Trench would know the basics of the Vessel.

 

If Trench knows nothing about these ships at all because they exist in a timeframe outside of his and he never saw them, then the Killiks have the exact same thing.

 

Otherwise, that's blatant displays of favoritism. At least be fair in your ridiculous attempts to stay biased Beni.

Forgive me, but I don't see how it would be at all fair if the Killiks were incapable of piloting their ships as for obvious reasons this would hand the victory to the opposing faction defacto.

 

A ship that cannot move or fire is a lump of metal, or in this case fleshy mass.

 

I fail to see the favourtism, when Silenceo's forces are capable of piloting their ships.

 

RL explanation: they went to Vong Naval Academy before the Kaggath or something to that effect.

 

I realise that you are upset about Vong tech. But in so far the Kaggath has run just fine with it, no need for the uproar. Giving Trench knowledge disallowed by the rules essential "cause Vong are OP" is a biased decision.

 

Consider Warren's position in this matter please, I doubt she would appreciate the nerf.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Warren-Stride]

I fail to see the favourtism, when Silenceo's forces are capable of piloting their ships.

 

Maybe Selenial wants the IDD's ships to all be piloted by Dark Troopers.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Warren-Stride]

But no, he'd know anything he can get from the Holonet, and the new republic publicised every victory against the Vong. But yeh, he'd know enough, like their weaponry being plasma etc.

 

#109 Access to the HoloNet and other communications networks is permitted but for the purposes of communication only – it cannot be used as a source of intelligence.

 

No, he wouldn't be able to use the HoloNet to those ends.

[Silenceo]

Maybe Selenial wants the IDD's ships to all be piloted by Dark Troopers.

 

Jerec approves of this message. *Imagine pilots jettisoning from doomed ships, and using jetpacks to enter the vessels...*

 

Jokes aside, I would think Trench would at least get to know the basics concerning the Vong...

Edited July 18, 2014 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

Jokes aside, I would think Trench would at least get to know the basics concerning the Vong...

Honestly I'd rather stick with them knowing very little, the issue being that when we start introducing things like this, it become arbitrary as to exactly what they know, and what they don't know. At least with this system its clear.

 

But yeah I'll call this tommorow.

[Selenial]

Forgive me, but I don't see how it would be at all fair if the Killiks were incapable of piloting their ships as for obvious reasons this would hand the victory to the opposing faction defacto.

 

A ship that cannot move or fire is a lump of metal, or in this case fleshy mass.

 

I fail to see the favourtism, when Silenceo's forces are capable of piloting their ships.

 

RL explanation: they went to Vong Naval Academy before the Kaggath or something to that effect.

 

I realise that you are upset about Vong tech. But in so far the Kaggath has run just fine with it, no need for the uproar. Giving Trench knowledge disallowed by the rules essential "cause Vong are OP" is a biased decision.

 

Consider Warren's position in this matter please, I doubt she would appreciate the nerf.

 

The favouritism comes in the aspect that the Vong supposedly know everything about the enemies ships, because they do. They were galactic Standard.

 

But again, picking Vong gives an unfair advantage in the fact that no one except the latest era actually knows of their existence. They bend the already ridiculously impossible laws of Physics in the Star Wars universe in a way that decimated much smaller fleets when the Vong actually invaded.

 

You say that Killiks not being able to pilot their own Vessels would be an insta win for the IDD, well every Faction bar those that have late NJO characters will be annihilated because Vong Tech aren't anywhere near normal starships. They generate Black Holes, they house massive beasts, they EAT SHIPS.

 

How is this remotely fair?

 

And no, before anyone accuses me of trying to Nerf Warren because I'm afraid of a good fleet, my fleet would Obliterate hers as Beni well knows (For one specific reason that I'm not getting into here.)

 

You bring in the universal tech rule because otherwise having one Era is going to **** you, well that's the case here. Having no NJO characters that could very well command a space battle has destroyed Silenceo, and that, in my opinion, isn't fair.

[Selenial]

Maybe Selenial wants the IDD's ships to all be piloted by Dark Troopers.

 

Well, that'd actually be a ridiculous buff to the IDD, so no.

[Silenceo]

Honestly I'd rather stick with them knowing very little, the issue being that when we start introducing things like this, it become arbitrary as to exactly what they know, and what they don't know. At least with this system its clear.

 

But yeah I'll call this tommorow.

 

By the basics, I mean essentially that they are:

 

Organic based ship builders

Fire Physical Projectiles as preference

Have Blackhole shields

Hate Machines

More numerous than enemies

 

Things similar to that, which are easy to see once the battle has commenced, but basically allows him to at least know going in that they are not the average joe shmo he has faced before. Lets see what the Vong automatically know of the IDD:

 

Mechanical ships

Energy based weaponry

Name implies hated droids

Imperial Tech

More numerous than themselves

Their Flagship will kick@

 

It is not like we are asking for the plans to the death start, just extremely basic things that would allow them to formulate plans without something out of character slipping by them. The other tid bits we have already discussed and gone over as to why/how Trench would notice and exploit them during the course of the battle. The things listed above do not give any combat advantages or prep advantages other than the shock value of "Their ships are not made of metal? They are made of flesh?!" I mean, really Beni, it is not like it is a choice to give one side a super laser on their Flagship...It is merely basic details that would almost always be covered in mission briefings...

[karadron]

The Killiks know how to pilot the ships.

 

I believe though that their physiology and their hive mind would hamper, completely effective use of the technology. Or at least those Killiks in skips and in command position. Vong technology works best under minds that have creative capacity, the hive mind limits that immensely.

[Beniboybling]

By the basics, I mean essentially that they are:

 

Organic based ship builders

Fire Physical Projectiles as preference

Have Blackhole shields

Hate Machines

More numerous than enemies

 

Things similar to that, which are easy to see once the battle has commenced, but basically allows him to at least know going in that they are not the average joe shmo he has faced before. Lets see what the Vong automatically know of the IDD:

 

Mechanical ships

Energy based weaponry

Name implies hated droids

Imperial Tech

More numerous than themselves

Their Flagship will kick@

 

It is not like we are asking for the plans to the death start, just extremely basic things that would allow them to formulate plans without something out of character slipping by them. The other tid bits we have already discussed and gone over as to why/how Trench would notice and exploit them during the course of the battle. The things listed above do not give any combat advantages or prep advantages other than the shock value of "Their ships are not made of metal? They are made of flesh?!" I mean, really Beni, it is not like it is a choice to give one side a super laser on their Flagship...It is merely basic details that would almost always be covered in mission briefings...

Hmm, I feel as if that would only be fair if they possessed intelligence agencies - the importance of which I do not wish to diminish. Also consider how this would negate an important faculty of the Vong ships - suprise.

 

I mean lets, look at the info here. Its clear who has the advantage. Most things on the IDD side are a given.

 

Those size would theoretically involve classes e.g. X amount of SDs etc.

[Beniboybling]

I believe though that their physiology and their hive mind would hamper, completely effective use of the technology. Or at least those Killiks in skips and in command position. Vong technology works best under minds that have creative capacity, the hive mind limits that immensely.

Source? Just interested, wasn't aware of this.

[Silenceo]

Hmm, I feel as if that would only be fair if they possessed intelligence agencies - the importance of which I do not wish to diminish. Also consider how this would negate an important faculty of the Vong ships - suprise.

 

I mean lets, look at the info here. Its clear who has the advantage. Most things on the IDD side are a given.

 

Those size would theoretically involve classes e.g. X amount of SDs etc.

 

Even if you allowed it, Intelligence agencies would still be incredibly important... It is like the difference between a map trying to find where Atlantas might be, and having a GPS lock on the darn city. Day and night...

 

Also, the whole surprise factor of the vong ships, still wouldn't be completely negated because they still haven't fought them before due to no NJO characters, and don't kid yourself beni, even with everything but the Flagship advantage, the IDD still faces possible defeat due to the sheer MONSTER that thing is... Sure, there are plans to bring it down, but this runs into the same issue we faced earlier with the vong.

 

Do too much and they are completely UP, do too little and they are massively OP...

[Beniboybling]

The favouritism comes in the aspect that the Vong supposedly know everything about the enemies ships, because they do. They were galactic Standard.

 

But again, picking Vong gives an unfair advantage in the fact that no one except the latest era actually knows of their existence. They bend the already ridiculously impossible laws of Physics in the Star Wars universe in a way that decimated much smaller fleets when the Vong actually invaded.

 

You say that Killiks not being able to pilot their own Vessels would be an insta win for the IDD, well every Faction bar those that have late NJO characters will be annihilated because Vong Tech aren't anywhere near normal starships. They generate Black Holes, they house massive beasts, they EAT SHIPS.

 

How is this remotely fair?

 

And no, before anyone accuses me of trying to Nerf Warren because I'm afraid of a good fleet, my fleet would Obliterate hers as Beni well knows (For one specific reason that I'm not getting into here.)

 

You bring in the universal tech rule because otherwise having one Era is going to **** you, well that's the case here. Having no NJO characters that could very well command a space battle has destroyed Silenceo, and that, in my opinion, isn't fair.

Response here. Edited July 19, 2014 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

The favouritism comes in the aspect that the Vong supposedly know everything about the enemies ships, because they do. They were galactic Standard.

 

But again, picking Vong gives an unfair advantage in the fact that no one except the latest era actually knows of their existence. They bend the already ridiculously impossible laws of Physics in the Star Wars universe in a way that decimated much smaller fleets when the Vong actually invaded.

 

You say that Killiks not being able to pilot their own Vessels would be an insta win for the IDD, well every Faction bar those that have late NJO characters will be annihilated because Vong Tech aren't anywhere near normal starships. They generate Black Holes, they house massive beasts, they EAT SHIPS.

 

How is this remotely fair?

 

And no, before anyone accuses me of trying to Nerf Warren because I'm afraid of a good fleet, my fleet would Obliterate hers as Beni well knows (For one specific reason that I'm not getting into here.)

 

You bring in the universal tech rule because otherwise having one Era is going to **** you, well that's the case here. Having no NJO characters that could very well command a space battle has destroyed Silenceo, and that, in my opinion, isn't fair.

 

Bassically I think my understanding of this is these are the givens.

 

1. "people know how large the enemy fleet is made of"

2. both sides know the size of the ships the enemy fleet is made of.

3. both sides know the design ORIGIN of the ships the other side is made of, and all of what comes with that.

 

 

Which means Warren's people would know the IDD is made up of Imperial standard ships, the size of the ships and the number of those ships and what that means for their usual offensive and defensive capabilities by that extent Silenceo would know the same about the EoP ships, IE number size and that they are Vong Standard and they know all of the usual offensive and defensive capabilities of said ships... everyone equal footing.

[Beniboybling]

Even if you allowed it, Intelligence agencies would still be incredibly important... It is like the difference between a map trying to find where Atlantas might be, and having a GPS lock on the darn city. Day and night...

 

Also, the whole surprise factor of the vong ships, still wouldn't be completely negated because they still haven't fought them before due to no NJO characters, and don't kid yourself beni, even with everything but the Flagship advantage, the IDD still faces possible defeat due to the sheer MONSTER that thing is... Sure, there are plans to bring it down, but this runs into the same issue we faced earlier with the vong.

 

Do too much and they are completely UP, do too little and they are massively OP...

Response here.

[Beniboybling]

One thing to think about before I sign off, what is the possibilty of Vong ships being used for ramming tactics. I'm thinking in terms of the carriers, if the situation becomes critical its possible they may kamikaze these ships away.