A PvP a Day...

[lavatsunami]

They are, and the zones were great last night, I had fun. So, I am very glad I have the options to avoid the players I do not like.

 

Yeh, you're avoiding the discussion though. You are not a competitive person, or an aggressive person, or a strong person. So competition (conflict) is going to disagree with you until that changes.

[DomiSotto]

It's funny, but your mentality is all 'I want good things and happy things', and you're completely against a concept that makes people truly strong. It's very contradictory.

 

I believe that there are things that make people strong. But it's not cussing and kicking them when they are down. I believe that what makes us strong is camaraderie. I believe in champions whose example I want to emulate. I believe in players that are so confident in their skill that they are gracious. I believe that the true strength is in quiet confidence, not in a rage, saliva spitting fits. I believe in keeping my own dignity by letting the losers keep theirs.

[lavatsunami]

As an additional note, the 'friendship' you speak of wanting from competition is something that usually only comes out of respect for another person's fight. Ever watch the movie 'Rush'? If not, watch it. It completely covers this concept. Two people, fighting against each other, sharpening each other because of their desire to crush their opponent. In the end, they are almost friends, having complete respect for each other purely because of their talent and fight.

 

That's the only 'friendship' that is born of conflict. I can't tell you how many times I've found a 'rival' in swtor, and we've targeted the crap out of each other, trash talked each other, only to become really good friends.

 

The friendship you're talking about is care bear nonsense. It doesn't exist with truly competitive people. And that's a good thing. Because the above concept of friendship is there to make people as strong as they can possibly be.

[lavatsunami]

I believe that there are things that make people strong. But it's not cussing and kicking them when they are down. I believe that what makes us strong is camaraderie. I believe in champions whose example I want to emulate. I believe in players that are so confident in their skill that they are gracious. I believe that the true strength is in quiet confidence, not in a rage, saliva spitting fits. I believe in keeping my own dignity by letting the losers keep theirs.

 

NO, comradery is not what makes people strong. What makes someone strong is having faced all possible challenges and overcoming them. People raging and trolling and cussing is pretty low on the level of challenges for someone who is actually strong.

 

You keep missing my point. It's an issue for you because you're not.

 

Anyway, I have to head out. Its obvious you're not understanding this concept. Gotta take those blinders off!

Edited January 5, 2016 by lavatsunami

[DomiSotto]

I understand very well what you are saying. You are very clear. You are saying that I am weak and non-competitive and therefore should be purged with the fire. You are a firm supporter of trash-talking, because in your view it builds people up. I understand the statements you are making, however I continue to disagree and I continue to admire the players with a different mindset. No matter how many people do this thing, and how socially acceptable it is, and how it is justified, in my heart I know it is wrong to try to humiliate the defeated. Edited January 5, 2016 by DomiSotto

[lavatsunami]

I understand very well what you are saying. You are very clear. You are saying that I am weak and non-competitive and therefore should be purged with the fire. You are a firm supporter of trash-talking, because in your view it builds people up. I understand the statements you are making, however I continue to disagree and I continue to admire the players with a different mindset. No matter how many people do this thing, and how socially acceptable it is, and how it is justified, in my heart I know it is wrong to try to humiliate the defeated.

 

Lol, it's not my view. You're acting like I am stating my opinion. I'm simply talking about a design. I didn't come up with the design, just observed it. And I didn't say I was a supporter of trash talking, I said I was a supporter of the design. The truth is that people become stronger through facing and overcoming challenges. Without challenges, we would all be weak. The very thing you're trying to fight against, is the very thing that makes people strong.

 

Think about that for like 2 seconds. Then think about it some more.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I can never get it why people feel motivated when they are yelled at.

 

Personally, I rather believe that some people want us make believe that people get motivated when yelled at. Or, it acts like the Tarkin Doctrine : Rule By Fear ... A person might fear to get yelled at again ... And again ... And again ... And again ... This is why I rather believe that "trash taling" is some sort of psychological warfare.

 

 

The typical "U SUCK YOU NEED TO UNINSTALL FOREVER!!!11!!" doesn't bother me at all. Maybe I am desensitized or something, lol.

 

Which is why I strongly believe that only the most insensitive "concrete-heads" survive PvP into Ranked, so to say ...

 

And I read an really disturbing article about the Dark TRiad a few days ago ...

 

That's mental problems. A happy, healthy, good person experiences no desire to attempt to bully others.

 

Dark Triad people and especially sadists become happy when they bully people ...

 

If you want fairy tales, don't do pvp, lol. In fact, don't do competition at all.

 

Your second sentence shows how few you know about other kinds of competition than the one you only know ..

 

It's working just great to empty the queues too, and making people go 'I hate PvP.'

 

That's exactly what the kind of "competition talk" according to lavatsunami's definition is trying to achive ! Less competors, more for the remaining ones !

 

But it's not cussing and kicking them when they are down.

 

Kicking repeatedly people who tried to defend themselves from robbing but got beaten down is a bad habit that has appeared here several years ago. Before, robbers would just flee. Now, they seek revenge and repeatedly kick a person already lying low on the floor.

 

I wonder where this bad habit comes from.

 

 

 

 

Besides, I did some PvE levelling again. I'll go back to my Harbinger toon soon, but I also get my Gunslinger into KOTFDE - which I kind of fear, because I'm seriously running out of "cargo bay" space ... I just can't stand getting more gear anymore ...

Edited January 5, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[Lhancelot]

I understand very well what you are saying. You are very clear. You are saying that I am weak and non-competitive and therefore should be purged with the fire. You are a firm supporter of trash-talking, because in your view it builds people up. I understand the statements you are making, however I continue to disagree and I continue to admire the players with a different mindset. No matter how many people do this thing, and how socially acceptable it is, and how it is justified, in my heart I know it is wrong to try to humiliate the defeated.

 

Wow, this thread really took off while I did some things. I get back and a whole new participant has entered the arena!

 

I am somewhere between the two of you on this topic. I don't view childish behavior or trash talking as a sign of mental illness. I also do not think all trash talking and insults are good for the soul.

 

I do believe that negatives can create positives though, and with trash talking as I said earlier, it only serves as more motivation for me to beat the other player who is being childish.

 

I see his point, as my very own comments prove that my own competetiveness can be further stoked from poor sportsmanship on behalf of the other players I compete against.

 

I chalk it all up to people have a broad range or personalities. What may disturb some does not disturb others and what some like others do not. etc., etc.

 

Whether it's life experiences, internal philosophical reasons, or a myriad of other reasons that construct our personal ideologies... There are endless personality types.

 

I try not to judge others harshly until their behavior and actions cause what I see as true harm. Otherwise, I believe in "live and let live."

 

For me, trash talking in a game doesn't cause anyone true harm, so I can easily ignore it, and use it as motivation to crush the trash talkers when I get an opportunity.

 

Idealistic or not, I don't think Domi is weak. Being idealistic is not weak, as many people are as such. I am not idealistic myself, I think of myself more as a realist than anything.

 

Ok, maybe borderline pessimist. But still. Live and let live.

[DomiSotto]

Diving down the outhouse latrine is a challenge. Given a choice to build up my strength in some other way & overcoming other challenges, I'll take it. If there is no other option, well, I'll take a deep breath in. I want to play regs and nobody can stop me. Now that I have the choice, I will play on a server that at the given time has the players I can aspire to emulate in both victory and defeat.

 

I am most strongly motivated by the hero worship, by wanting to be like someone who is better than I am at something. Goading does not motivate me, it causes disappointment. Why work yourself to the bone, if the end result is less than attractive?

Edited January 5, 2016 by DomiSotto

[AlrikFassbauer]

Lol, it's not my view. You're acting like I am stating my opinion. I'm simply talking about a design. I didn't come up with the design, just observed it. And I didn't say I was a supporter of trash talking, I said I was a supporter of the design. The truth is that people become stronger through facing and overcoming challenges. Without challenges, we would all be weak. The very thing you're trying to fight against, is the very thing that makes people strong.

 

You try to hide yourseld by "the design" - using it like a shield - but you also appear to follow it. I can see no other reason why you are so much against the "knight in white armor" thing.

 

Your 'knight in white armor' concept does not exist in reality and should not exist.

 

Your word "should" shows that you are following this "design" you are hiding behind. Hence, your vision is distorted, because you don't make any attempt here to try to follow the logic of an different "design".

 

You never say why it "should not exist". You are stating something as a fact. That's not the scientific way. NO scientist states that omeone is a fact - as long as it is not proven by studies, or by mathematic formulae.

 

You are merely stating your point of view - or, "the design I observed", as you put it - as something fixed as a fact because you believe so much in it that your belief is stronger than the possibility to try to follow other lines / trains of thought.

 

No-one who is thinking the scientific way is stating things as a fact like you do. Well, some do ( like the enemies of Alfred Wegener who discivered the continental drift, who got bullied and trash-talked as well ! ) - but sane people always doubt things and never take things for certain. Because, there is never 100 %.

 

Your 'knight in white armor' concept does not exist in reality and should not exist.

 

Say that to Mother Theresa. Oh, wait, she's dead. Good for you.

Edited January 5, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[DomiSotto]

Ah, you don't need to reach to Mother Theresa. I see players every day, in every warzone, that spearhead the charges and carry like no tomorrow, while staying perfectly civil, win or lose. In fact, that EH behavior stood out because it was highly unusual. Edited January 5, 2016 by DomiSotto

[Lhancelot]

Ah, you don't need to reach to Mother Theresa. I see players every day, in every warzone, that spearhead the charges and carry like no tomorrow, while staying perfectly civil, win or lose. In fact, that EH behavior stood out because it was highly unusual.

 

Yeah it's fine. I honestly can't see a better environment for PVP. Even in the competitive matches the players are fairly respectable on TEH.

 

You ALWAYS have trolls and malcontents who always bring their worst qualities to the table, but you learn who they are and either ignore them, or just feel pity for them. I usually do the latter. it takes a lot for me to ignore someone.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I just tried out an AHG with my level 31 Sage which I almost never play with. ( I prefer my level 60 Sage for PvE. )

 

I had an AHG, and I never quite understood its scoring mechanic ... But this was "another nail in the coffin" of the belief that collecting Orbs actually matters.

We had so much more Orbs than they had - but they won because they had so much more kills ...

This just strengthens my personal belief that the better duellists win an AHG regardless.

I don't remember an AHG that proved me otherwise.

[OMGitsCHARLIE]

I just tried out an AHG with my level 31 Sage which I almost never play with. ( I prefer my level 60 Sage for PvE. )

 

I had an AHG, and I never quite understood its scoring mechanic ... But this was "another nail in the coffin" of the belief that collecting Orbs actually matters.

We had so much more Orbs than they had - but they won because they had so much more kills ...

This just strengthens my personal belief that the better duellists win an AHG regardless.

I don't remember an AHG that proved me otherwise.

 

Orbs are simply there to prevent a team from turtling at their node. If you have a competent node guard, then kills are the main objective of AHG. Your main priority in AHG, outside of keeping a node, is to NOT die and get kills. That's the best thing you can do for your team.

Edited January 5, 2016 by OMGitsCHARLIE

[DomiSotto]

All this is my noob's observations...

 

AHG scoring favors kills over orbs, faster cap of the pylon, a recap of the pylon, and, most obviously, holding both pylons. The most common mistakes to avoid in the AHG are:

 

1. Capping pylon too early or without the backup to hold it. Delay to let your team to cap first, but do not cap when the timer is more than a minute and you know you will not have reinforcements fast enough (help me defend! when most of the team is stalled on the other side of the AHG is not gonna get you help faster than their Mara rush you).

2. Getting too involved into mid fighting at about 45 seconds before the explosion if you know the other team has 2+ stealth. Ideally, at least one extra person should be within a striking distance of the node at that time to prevent a double cap.

3. The whole team dallying in the mid after the explosion is over hoping someone else will go cap

4. Carrying the orbs when your team is dying. Dying less will help more.

 

Cap, hold your own, and kill as much as you can on as close to their pylon as possible and attempt to cap theirs at 45-30 sec before explosion if your team is stronger.

 

If the teams are of equal strength, and have a node denial combo of Engi and MM or Engi and Sorcs, get them in as soon as possible to stop the other team from entering the mid, and have only a couple of node carriers. Attempt to cap the pylon faster.

 

If your team is that much weaker, try to die as little as possible and hold the pylon. That's the best you can do.

Edited January 5, 2016 by DomiSotto

[lavatsunami]

Lol to just about everything you guys said.

 

I'm not hiding behind anything, and your abuse of the context is noticed.

 

It's extremely simple. Actually, just in the responses my point was proven. Lhancelot said that when someone trash talked it made him want to fight back (i.e. fight response, meaning it feeds his will to push harder).

 

Domi wants some super hero person to emerge and inspire her to be better. Inspiration has it's value, but it cannot bring someone to true strength. Inspiration is not a challenge. Inspiration makes things easier, not harder.

 

There are two scenarios here: Lets say the world is perfect and everyone is happy and motivated, and there is nothing to fight against, and there's peace and comradery, lol. Then yes, things like inspiration and motivation and teaching would created the strongest people.

 

But we all know that isn't life. Life is constant challenges, most of which come from other people. Stupidity, Ego, Anger, Hate, etc. If you think life won't always be this way, then you misunderstand the design of it. The only way to be the strongest in our current world is to be stronger than the challenges it provides.

 

Trolling, vile people, cutthroats, etc, will show up in a game, just like they show up in real life.

 

Lhancelot will push harder and fight harder and overcome. Correct approach for strength.

 

Domo will keep looking for Mr white knight (living in fantasy land), while simultaneously trying to rid the game of people trolling (fantasy land). Incorrect approach for strength.

 

It's really not that hard to get.

[lavatsunami]

And if you want to talk about competition and how i only have one view of it, again, look at the world.

 

People cheat at the highest level of competition in literally every competition we have.

 

Governments lie about everything and anything and to each other in order to get ahead. I mean we ally with China and we hack them and they hack us, and we try and beat them with military advancements and vice versa.

 

It's great to dream of a world where there is only peace and harmony and happiness, but if you want that, you're gonna have to fight for it (chaos, destruction, death).

 

The gaming world is no different. PVP is fighting and people aren't robots. We fight with everything we have, and yelling at someone out of anger of losing is just one way people do that. Get over it, or be subjugated underneath it. Your choice.

Edited January 5, 2016 by lavatsunami

[DomiSotto]

Domo will keep looking for Mr white knight (living in fantasy land), while simultaneously trying to rid the game of people trolling (fantasy land). Incorrect approach for strength.

 

I keep looking up to the players whose skill and human quality I admire and I work to match both as best as I can. They do not have to emerge. They are already there. It takes me a long time, and I chip away at it. I will also speak out against what I do not like. I will not accept it as inevitable, encourage it by silence, or conform to it.

Edited January 5, 2016 by DomiSotto

[lavatsunami]

I keep looking up to the players whose skill and human quality I admire and I work to match both as best as I can. They do not have to emerge. They are already there. It takes me a long time, and I chip away at it. I will also speak out against what I do not like. I will not accept it as inevitable, encourage it by silence, or conform to it.

 

You won't ever get there. I played with you for five minutes and I know you won't. Do you know why? Because you don't know how to listen to what someone is saying and process it.

 

I did not say accept it, encourage it, or conform to it. I said get over it. Overcome. If you think people trolling is not inevitable, then you have a logic issue. If you think I said encourage it by silence, you have a reading comprehension issue. If you think I said conform to it, same as before.

 

I said be stronger than it. Your 'not being silent' doesn't do anything for you. It just shows how illogical you are. Which, in a game of dynamic variable processing, is probably why you still aren't good at the game.

[DomiSotto]

Oh, surely it was longer than five minutes. I believe we've played three warzones. That's at least an hour. I keep using every one of the things you've taught me and it helped quite a lot. Thank you for the impassionate speech of the trasjtalk being a challenge to overcome that makes one into a better player through getting over it and deriving strength by rallying yourself to show them up. It's quite a fantasy and an ideal of its own. I respect that position, but not the trashtalkers. Movement and targeting is what I want to get, and I want it yesterday. Edited January 5, 2016 by DomiSotto

[lavatsunami]

Oh, surely it was longer than five minutes. I believe we've played three warzones. That's at least an hour. I keep using every one of the things you've taught me and it helped quite a lot. Thank you for the impassionate speech of the trasjtalk being a challenge to overcome that makes one into a better player through getting over it and deriving strength by rallying yourself to show them up. It's quite a fantasy and an ideal of its own. I respect that position, but not the trashtalkers. Movement and targeting is what I want to get, and I want it yesterday.

 

That's fine. I didn't say respect the trashtalkers, just realize that challenges in all forms are a means to one end: strength.

[Jherad]

4. Carrying the orbs when your team is dying. Dying less will help more.

 

This is an important point. If your team is struggling to survive, a couple of orb carriers can flat out lose things for you. Even worse are those 'GET ORBS' yellers who insist on trying to pick up an orb while getting interrupted as their team melts around them.

 

On the whole smack talk thing. I'll rarely speak to the other team outside of a GG or a LOL. But I have been guilty of raging at specific team-mates. Almost always because they've given up or aren't trying. Had one guy today deliberately sitting out the match in stealth to throw it (only entering combat to avoid a votekick) - that happens, but it was the other guy who did less damage than him (sub 35k with 8 deaths in a hypergate, ignored ops chat) who pissed me off.

 

I'm trying to reform my temper - but one thing that *instantly* improves my mood is someone asking for help. Doesn't matter how bad you are, the impetus to learn is just downright refreshing. If I'm not currently with a group and have some free time, I'll take a while to talk builds, gear, or even run WZs with an *awful* PvPer if they're actively trying to improve. Largely because I've been here long enough to see some really really bad players turn into decent ones.

 

People *should* be a little more thick skinned about trolling and smack talk. But sometimes a bit of encouragement goes a long way. Those who obstinately refuse to learn ('zomg hacks!' 'if you're doing that much damage you can't be playing objectives!' 'premades are cheating!' etc etc) could probably use a reality check though.

[DomiSotto]

Well, I actually have to thank you for that clip of you playing a merc you linked in a thread some time ago, where I saw how smoothly you are using the fly back. Initially I thought it was a junk ability that is pointless but after seeing that I bound it to an easy key and tried it out today. It actually worked great in NC for me, allowing me to get away from the Mara/Jugg pack that was the du jour death squad and start running circles around them (in my own clunky way) setting off what I could.

 

That was the only zone we did win in the midbies, thanks to a heroic stealth that sacked the East just as we were going down fast. And we managed to hold on to both off-nodes to come back from 40%. Which was awesome. Then I went through 3 winning arenas in a row, twice in a comp of 3 mandos, one melee.

 

I actually planned n playing my level 36 Mandos, but the pop died really quickly on the EH after a couple of lousy games, so going to 61 was a big change (and problem). I think I will redo my movement buttons same as my Vg. Even with the dummy between the zones, I can't get the thing flow well and keep looking.

 

Vg got fried. Tons. Just a typical Faceroll Tuesday in 65s. There was one AHG we were winning, but then, of course, the Empire managed to prevent us from capping, so no dice. I am going to head for a dummy and keep trying to ramp up the muscle memory. I keep getting too many of the 'ability not ready' and 'not facing' still. There was that Jugg that was so good at strafe, I was not keeping up to him at all. And, of course I missed a sabre reflect once like a total noob.

Edited January 6, 2016 by DomiSotto

[Lhancelot]

This is an important point. If your team is struggling to survive, a couple of orb carriers can flat out lose things for you. Even worse are those 'GET ORBS' yellers who insist on trying to pick up an orb while getting interrupted as their team melts around them.

 

On the whole smack talk thing. I'll rarely speak to the other team outside of a GG or a LOL. But I have been guilty of raging at specific team-mates. Almost always because they've given up or aren't trying. Had one guy today deliberately sitting out the match in stealth to throw it (only entering combat to avoid a votekick) - that happens, but it was the other guy who did less damage than him (sub 35k with 8 deaths in a hypergate, ignored ops chat) who pissed me off.

 

I'm trying to reform my temper - but one thing that *instantly* improves my mood is someone asking for help. Doesn't matter how bad you are, the impetus to learn is just downright refreshing. If I'm not currently with a group and have some free time, I'll take a while to talk builds, gear, or even run WZs with an *awful* PvPer if they're actively trying to improve. Largely because I've been here long enough to see some really really bad players turn into decent ones.

 

People *should* be a little more thick skinned about trolling and smack talk. But sometimes a bit of encouragement goes a long way. Those who obstinately refuse to learn ('zomg hacks!' 'if you're doing that much damage you can't be playing objectives!' 'premades are cheating!' etc etc) could probably use a reality check though.

 

I agree with you on all of your points. The funniest thing I see, in fact just seen it tonight, is in AHG people actually trying to grab an orb while I am unloading boltstorm, grav rounds right into their face. I can melt half their life away while they click the orb over and over before they finally realize they probably should fight. Fricking hilarious rofl.

[Lhancelot]

Well, I actually have to thank you for that clip of you playing a merc you linked in a thread some time ago, where I saw how smoothly you are using the fly back. Initially I thought it was a junk ability that is pointless but after seeing that I bound it to an easy key and tried it out today. It actually worked great in NC for me, allowing me to get away from the Mara/Jugg pack that was the du jour death squad and start running circles around them (in my own clunky way) setting off what I could.

 

That was the only zone we did win in the midbies, thanks to a heroic stealth that sacked the East just as we were going down fast. And we managed to hold on to both off-nodes to come back from 40%. Which was awesome. Then I went through 3 winning arenas in a row, twice in a comp of 3 mandos, one melee.

 

I actually planned n playing my level 36 Mandos, but the pop died really quickly on the EH after a couple of lousy games, so going to 61 was a big change (and problem). I think I will redo my movement buttons same as my Vg. Even with the dummy between the zones, I can't get the thing flow well and keep looking.

 

Vg got fried. Tons. Just a typical Faceroll Tuesday in 65s. There was one AHG we were winning, but then, of course, the Empire managed to prevent us from capping, so no dice. I am going to head for a dummy and keep trying to ramp up the muscle memory. I keep getting too many of the 'ability not ready' and 'not facing' still. There was that Jugg that was so good at strafe, I was not keeping up to him at all. And, of course I missed a sabre reflect once like a total noob.

 

Zachariah has been cool, I get to talk shop with him in the commando/merc section regarding spec builds and gearing. I did lots of what he recommended and also tried different things on my own. I found his gearing build great btw and ultimately changed to it with augs etc.