A PvP a Day...

[Banderal]

Hurray! That's what this thread was originally for... learning, and relating the experiences of a new player, and giving advice, and answering questions, and her (Domi's) story of how she learned to love PVP.

 

Glad someone (besides me) is having fun. I sometimes wonder where all these other players come from, if everyone is so miserable doing PvP.

[Banderal]

I was even Ops Leader ...

 

Also, you might know this already - but it's generally believed (I think) that ops leader is chosen in this kinda weird pseudo random way of "whoever has the most progress to their next valor level". So you can be chosen as leader over someone who has YEARS of PvP experience, because you are closer to (say) valor level 11, than they are to valor level 80.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Banderal

[TheGhostOfSlade]

Glad someone (besides me) is having fun. I sometimes wonder where all these other players come from, if everyone is so miserable doing PvP.

 

I dunno if it's the server I'm on, doing unranked, playing as an Imp, sheer dumb luck, or a combination thereof, but I've had no bad experiences with other players, and the alleged toxicity of PvP was one of the things putting me off. It's genuinely fun.

 

but it's generally believed (I think) that ops leader is chosen in this kinda weird pseudo random way of "whoever has the most progress to their next valor level"

 

Oh yeah. Like I've been PvPing since Monday, and am coming up on Valor 20. I shouldn't be leading anything. But I'm proud of the fact that when handed a modicum of responsibility in PvP I'm doing OK.

 

If anyone wants me to share experiences, or has advice for me, that would make me very happy.

 

I have the basics down (I know the basic strategies for each map, kill the healer first, defend the ball carrier/node capper, as a squishy stealther I should focus on defending nodes, call in chat and look out for calls from teammates, don't stay still unless you have to for a cast...) but I know I have a LOT to learn

[Ruhun]

Hurray! That's what this thread was originally for... learning, and relating the experiences of a new player, and giving advice, and answering questions, and her (Domi's) story of how she learned to love PVP.

 

Glad someone (besides me) is having fun. I sometimes wonder where all these other players come from, if everyone is so miserable doing PvP.

 

I have fun most of the time, but being in any of the previously mentioned matches is just becoming too common.

Add to that 2 - 4 healer premades and it seems that the only ones having a good time are tanks and healers.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Ruhun

[TheGhostOfSlade]

I have fun most of the time, but being in any of the previously mentioned matches is just becoming too common.

Add to that 2 - 4 healer premades and it seems that the only ones having a good time are tanks and healers.

 

Is that in Ranked? Because I'm a DPS and having a blast with other lowbies and Legacy players who rolled new toons for DvL in Unranked. And mostly when a match is unbalanced it's because of inexperienced players making noob mistakes, not due to mechanics.

[Ruhun]

Is that in Ranked? Because I'm a DPS and having a blast with other lowbies and Legacy players who rolled new toons for DvL in Unranked. And mostly when a match is unbalanced it's because of inexperienced players making noob mistakes, not due to mechanics.

 

Regs 65.

I don't like lows or mids because I hate working with an incomplete toolbelt.

As melee once you get used to all the gap closers at 65 you feel gimped at level 40.

[TheGhostOfSlade]

Makes perfect sense to me, the toon I rolled for DvL and am trying PvP with is still lower than my highest-level toon (a Mara) and I can feel the difference. But on the bright side surely some of the people like me will keep PvPing once they hit 65? I know I plan to.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I dunno if it's the server I'm on, doing unranked, playing as an Imp, sheer dumb luck, or a combination thereof, but I've had no bad experiences with other players,

 

It's most likely because you are playing on imp side. Everybody says that imp side is more "professional".

Edited July 15, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[TheGhostOfSlade]

Today's PvP experience so far:

 

ROUND ONE:

 

Logged in, immediately queued for a WZ. Got Civil War. Lovely. Everyone talking tactics in chat. Ops Leader and me run for Snow, he caps and runs to help take mid while I defend. I know some people don't like being left alone to defend nodes but I'm happy to as long as it's helping the team, and anyway I know it plays to my class' strengths. We take and hold mid easily, we're absolutely steamrolling them, til eventually team decides to also take grass, just for fun. We take it. By this point two Rep players - call them A and B - are in open chat, saying something along the lines of:

 

A: Sorry about this, we don't play with noobs normally but we're bored

B: You're bored, I need creds

A: Anyway this is a joke, absolute ****storm at grass

B: You guys having fun?

A: GET THEIR HEALERS.

A: Sorry wrong chat

B: OH NO NOW THEY KNOW OUR SECRET TACTIC

 

And so on and so forth.

 

Now, it struck me as two frustrated, experienced players trying to make light of a bad situation, but I tried to put myself in the shoes of one of the newcomers on their team who was currently being curbstomped and it felt like this was the kind of behaviour that puts new players off.

 

ROUND TWO:

 

Immediately queue again. Get Civil War again. I'm Ops Leader. Entirely new team. I spew out tactics in chat while we wait for the start, and everyone seems to be listening. Me and a Merc heavily emphasise the need to mark and kill opposing healers fast.

 

I run to Snow as per the plan, cap it and guard. Someone on Rep side had done the same to Grass. Everyone else hits mid right as I cap, so I have a view of the ensuing carnage. I'm seeing "X has been defeated messages" all in a row, until only the Merc and a male Sin are left. Everyone respawns, rushes mid again, all but Merc and Sin go down. Merc posts in chat that "Everyone's leaving the heal, getting stomped." I reiterate instructions, another attack, another wave of deaths, Reps take Mid. I change instructions to "Pick the turret with fewest defenders, rush it, take heals first." No reply for about a minute and another wave of deaths, then Merc replies "No point". From what I could see, him, the male Sin and a fast-learning female Sin had rushed Grass (two defenders) while the others rushed Mid despite it being guarded by six. I told the Merc to play for pride and he grumbled but agreed when I said the newbies had to learn somehow. Male Sin gave up, came to my node and started doing silly emotes. Female Sin and Merc rushed back and forth between helping me and male Sin when the Reps decided to take our node for lolz (karma for the previous round I guess!) and trying to turn the tide of battle at mid. Once the Merc realised I was serious about playing for pride, he kept up a steady stream of advice and encouragement in chat for which I am very grateful. One thing to note is that the female Sin and I were the only people on my team who weren't legendary players. In theory, our teammates were experienced enough to understand the concept of tactics.

 

I should have felt terrible at the end of that round, but the handful of supportive players had cheered me up enough for me to queue again...

 

ROUND THREE:

 

Quesh Huttball. New team except for the Merc, who is Ops Leader (thank goodness, I say to myself). The minute I appear in the spawn zone he puts "Caro [which is a decent abbreviation of my toon's name], stealth and go to score zone so we can pass to you" in chat, followed by "Everyone else, focus on getting ball and scoring. No fights in mid unless you have to."

 

All good advice. I've never camped at the score zone before, although I know it's a common tactic, because in my first Huttball game I was a backfill into sheer chaos, and in my second one we had a Sin who did that instead of me. I do as he says and immediately encounter a problem: there's a Sage camping there to guard. Now, this seems like poor tactics to me, since I'm pretty sure a level 25 Sage doesn't have stealth detection, and surely Sages in general should be Force-running ahead of the ball-carrier on their team and then pulling them towards the goal? But anyway, this Sage becomes my nemesis. Why? Because every time one of their players dies, they respawn, leave the safe zone and run down the right (from their perspective) ramp. So the only way to avoid being accidentally detected by them is to run left... where this guy is camped and will detect me about half the time. Dunno if they planned that out or if he adapted to the situation, but it made my life a lot harder.

 

Meanwhile, in mid... it's a free-for-all, while the Merc keeps saying things like "go for the goal!" and "get the ball!", most of our team is trying to tank through the opposition like they're a trash mob. I add my voice to his and it must be clear to all our teammates that we're frustrated, but he keeps sending tips my way, about my positioning to receive passes etc, and we both try to advise the rest in a relatively friendly way. Halfway through the game, Reps score. They also kill me and him, so we respawn simultaneously and get a moment to remind our teammates of their aim. All that happens is that the fight in mid intensifies. The match turns into me camping while the Merc goes on solo runs trying to get close enough to me to pass. Eventually a Sniper catches on and starts helping, and he scores after I finally get my sweet sweet revenge on the Sage by backstabbing him out of stealth, hitting him with my mezz and then pushing him off the ledge. 1-1. We cling on, trying to get the ball again for long enough to score. Somehow Merc and Sniper take advantage of the chaos in mid to keep killing ball-carriers. Time runs out and we scrape a win on possession.

 

Back on the Fleet, I whisper Merc to thank him for all his help and tips, and we end up chatting for a few minutes. Basically he's very welcoming to new players as long as they're willing to learn and listen. He offers some encouragement, I friend him and we both seem open to grouping at some point for fun. So that was nice. He says goodbye and switches toons, I go for one more round...

 

ROUND FOUR:

 

4v4 Arena deathmatch. Me and 3 Snipers (all DPS) v 2 Sages, a Gunslinger and a Commando (all DPS). I'm backfill but entering at the start of Round 1, obviously someone saw the setup and quit. We get curbstomped in Round 1 after two Snipers rush in like they aren't squishy and the Gunslinger breaks my stealth. Happily, Ops Leader and I realise one of the Sages is offhealing, and he targets said Sage in Round 2. Sadly this leaves me healing for the rest of the match to compensate, and I'm no healer. We win Round 2, and since I open Round 3 by getting revenge on the Gunslinger by breaking her stealth (and subsequently killing her) we do OK. Sadly we lose in the end but it was a good fight.

 

So what I learned this afternoon is a little bit of how 65s must feel when they complain about stupid players in pugs. Still, I did the best I could with what I had, and the supportive Merc made it a much more enjoyable experience than it should have been.

Edited July 15, 2016 by TheGhostOfSlade

[TheGhostOfSlade]

It's most likely because you are playing on imp side. Everybody says that imp side is more "professional".

 

That's what I hear, no idea why it's the case though

[Ruhun]

A: Sorry about this, we don't play with noobs normally but we're bored

B: You're bored, I need creds

A: Anyway this is a joke, absolute ****storm at grass

B: You guys having fun?

A: GET THEIR HEALERS.

A: Sorry wrong chat

B: OH NO NOW THEY KNOW OUR SECRET TACTIC

 

That's not nearly close the amount of venom players can spew at newbies.

It just looks like two friends throwing up their arms and just playing for credits/coms.

 

Sometimes you are just so outmatched that all you can do is be a thorn on someones side for a few minutes and check your dps for epeen.

[TheGhostOfSlade]

That's not nearly close the amount of venom players can spew at newbies.

It just looks like two friends throwing up their arms and just playing for credits/coms.

 

Sometimes you are just so outmatched that all you can do is be a thorn on someones side for a few minutes and check your dps for epeen.

 

Oh yeah, it's not particularly venomous, but the fact that it was public could make some newbie getting curbstomped on their first try feel pretty awful. As I say, I figured they were just making light of a bad situation.

 

Tbh I'm the kind of person who will always go down swinging. In my first 4v4, my entire team charged in and got wiped while I was in stealth trying to backstab the healer. By the time I broke stealth they were dead. I managed to kill the healer and was halfway through downing another opponent when my team started yelling in chat for me to just die already so they could respawn. This was my second ever PvP match, they died so fast because they were a bunch of squishy DPS types trying to charge a healer, a tank, and two ranged DPS, so I ignored them because I'm a stubborn *****. I kept breaking CCs, self-healing, using my mezz... in the end I had killed the healer and one of the DPS guys and almost killed another by the time they took me down. With hindsight, I can see how that's frustrating for someone who just wants to get to the next round, but I wasn't really understanding that on Day One and besides, had I been a better player I might have been able to win us that round, so eh.

 

(Please tell me if this makes me a terrible teammate)

Edited July 15, 2016 by TheGhostOfSlade

[Ruhun]

Oh yeah, it's not particularly venomous, but the fact that it was public could make some newbie getting curbstomped on their first try feel pretty awful. As I say, I figured they were just making light of a bad situation.

 

Tbh I'm the kind of person who will always go down swinging. In my first 4v4, my entire team charged in and got wiped while I was in stealth trying to backstab the healer. By the time I broke stealth they were dead. I managed to kill the healer and was halfway through downing another opponent when my team started yelling in chat for me to just die already so they could respawn. This was my second ever PvP match, they died so fast because they were a bunch of squishy DPS types trying to charge a healer, a tank, and two ranged DPS, so I ignored them because I'm a stubborn *****. I kept breaking CCs, self-healing, using my mezz... in the end I had killed the healer and one of the DPS guys and almost killed another by the time they took me down. With hindsight, I can see how that's frustrating for someone who just wants to get to the next round, but I wasn't really understanding that on Day One and besides, had I been a better player I might have been able to win us that round, so eh.

 

(Please tell me if this makes me a terrible teammate)

 

Nah you had a fighting chance.

 

The only thing I hate in 4s is when the lone stealthier takes it to acid out of spite.

My patience is worn thin, I leave these matches if I'm on the stealthers team.

[TheGhostOfSlade]

Gotta do my bit. Just got curbstomped twice in roughly the same team on Civil War and AHG. Plenty of the people on the team not getting the tactics (it doesn't take five people to cap a node) but also the same Ops Leader both times who just swore at the noobs and ragequit. And then queued so fast he got backfilled into the team and ragequit again. Two maps in a row. And he thinks the noobs were stupid for not learning from their mistakes

[Banderal]

Nah you had a fighting chance.

 

The only thing I hate in 4s is when the lone stealthier takes it to acid out of spite.

My patience is worn thin, I leave these matches if I'm on the stealthers team.

 

Agree. Going down fighting is awesome. I NEVER mind waiting on the floor while my team mates do awesome things.

 

Stealthing out and waiting 3 minutes for the acid is lame. Don't do that. I've been on teams where they tell the other side where the lame stealther is. I think that's totally fair.

[Banderal]

Two maps in a row. And he thinks the noobs were stupid for not learning from their mistakes

 

Hahaha. I have to remember that and quote it next time I see the same thing happen.

[TheGhostOfSlade]

Stealthing out and waiting 3 minutes for the acid is lame. Don't do that. I've been on teams where they tell the other side where the lame stealther is. I think that's totally fair.

 

Oh absolutely. I haven't encountered it but I'd do that if I came across it.

 

Hahaha. I have to remember that and quote it next time I see the same thing happen.

 

Haha thanks. Am I right in thinking a lot of you guys are on US servers?

[Banderal]

Haha thanks. Am I right in thinking a lot of you guys are on US servers?

 

I'm on the two servers listed in my sig, one an east-coast US server, the other a West coast US server. Although, I haven't been playing on any of those toons listed. I'm going incognito as a sniper named "BackForMore" on EH.

[TheGhostOfSlade]

I'm on the two servers listed in my sig, one an east-coast US server, the other a West coast US server. Although, I haven't been playing on any of those toons listed. I'm going incognito as a sniper named "BackForMore" on EH.

 

Fair enough I just get the feeling from what I've read, a lot of the folks commenting here are on EH and Harb, which is a pity as I won't encounter any of you once I hit 65

[AlrikFassbauer]

I'm on Harbinger, but haven't been playing there for at least 2 months ... mostly because of RL and because of that I'm not playing much anyway these days. My "home server" is VC ( Vanjervalis Chain ), quite dead nowadays, it seems to me. But I can still do PvE there. Edited July 16, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[TheGhostOfSlade]

OK just some random thoughts and stuff:

 

First off, I started trying PvP at around level 27 having completed the first half of Chapter One plus Black Talon. Since then I've sped through Tatooine, done Boarding Party and Foundry (a boring grind enlivened only by the presence of Revan and HK-47, but I needed it for DvL), and a load of PvP. I'm level 40. Still have Alderaan plus the end of Chapter One to do. And thanks to the constant XP boosts to story content since I started the game (in the buildup to KOTFE), I've never not been overleveled for a planet after the Prologue. Sigh. And despite my high level, my gear still isn't fantastic because a lot of the early good stuff is in mission rewards. I should totally go back to PvE for a while, shouldn't I?

 

Secondly, on server pops: queues for PvP aren't too long on Red Eclipse, although you do see a lot of the same faces. Being in the fleet or on a story world, the population is usually over 100 unless it's a quiet time of day. Go into a Flashpoint and it massively drops off. Haven't tried GF so can't speak for queues there.

I suspect this game just appeals to far more story mode players than PvPers and that's that.

 

Finally, any tips on optimum rotation?

[Greezt]

OK just some random thoughts and stuff:

 

First off, I started trying PvP at around level 27 having completed the first half of Chapter One plus Black Talon. Since then I've sped through Tatooine, done Boarding Party and Foundry (a boring grind enlivened only by the presence of Revan and HK-47, but I needed it for DvL), and a load of PvP. I'm level 40. Still have Alderaan plus the end of Chapter One to do. And thanks to the constant XP boosts to story content since I started the game (in the buildup to KOTFE), I've never not been overleveled for a planet after the Prologue. Sigh. And despite my high level, my gear still isn't fantastic because a lot of the early good stuff is in mission rewards. I should totally go back to PvE for a while, shouldn't I?

 

Secondly, on server pops: queues for PvP aren't too long on Red Eclipse, although you do see a lot of the same faces. Being in the fleet or on a story world, the population is usually over 100 unless it's a quiet time of day. Go into a Flashpoint and it massively drops off. Haven't tried GF so can't speak for queues there.

I suspect this game just appeals to far more story mode players than PvPers and that's that.

 

Finally, any tips on optimum rotation?

 

Gear really doesn't matter much before level 65. I usually make sure to have something in every slot, and that's it. I get drops from heroics, or if I have enough crystals I buy the starter gear on the fleet. Apart from that, you don't need to bother with gear.

 

TRE is the best EU server for any group content. That being said, people do less flashpoints these days... Tacticals can be pugged, HMs are not for pugs. They used to be, but player quality dropped with the arrival of 4.0. That is to say, people go into HMs undergeared and unwilling to learn the tactics required for them. So most people will run them with friends/guildies only. Other than that, now each FP has a solo mode... This makes people much less inclined to group if they only want the story/achievement.

 

Rotations aren't a thing in PvP. You need to decide based on your opponent's D/OCDs and your own what is the best choice for the moment. For some classes, PvE and PvP can be at least somewhat similar, but for others it's a completely different cup of tea.

 

Try looking for guides on youtube - there is one for pretty much every AC.

[TheGhostOfSlade]

Gear really doesn't matter much before level 65. I usually make sure to have something in every slot, and that's it. I get drops from heroics, or if I have enough crystals I buy the starter gear on the fleet. Apart from that, you don't need to bother with gear.

 

This I did not know. Thanks!

 

TRE is the best EU server for any group content. That being said, people do less flashpoints these days... Tacticals can be pugged, HMs are not for pugs. They used to be, but player quality dropped with the arrival of 4.0. That is to say, people go into HMs undergeared and unwilling to learn the tactics required for them. So most people will run them with friends/guildies only. Other than that, now each FP has a solo mode... This makes people much less inclined to group if they only want the story/achievement.

 

Yeah, I noticed this, and I've been guilty of soloing for achievements lately myself, but I do think there's something fun about doing it in a group.

 

Rotations aren't a thing in PvP. You need to decide based on your opponent's D/OCDs and your own what is the best choice for the moment. For some classes, PvE and PvP can be at least somewhat similar, but for others it's a completely different cup of tea.

 

Try looking for guides on youtube - there is one for pretty much every AC.

 

Awesome. I've come up with a few combinations that seem to work for me, so I guess it's a case of sticking to them for now and working from there

[Banderal]

And despite my high level, my gear still isn't fantastic because a lot of the early good stuff is in mission rewards. I should totally go back to PvE for a while, shouldn't I?

 

For PvP? Bolster pretty much takes care of you up to 60 or so, when you can get the basic lvl 59 (60?) set from the PvP vendor, which is what you want to use (including level 65) until you get actual PvP gear. For PvE I don't know, but I'm level 40. I have 1 piece of lvl 38 gear (finally got the adaptable chest piece I wanted, and mod'd that), and the rest is like level 10 or below. Doesn't matter at all. (I level through PvP only - haven't done a single mission since leaving the starter planet. )

 

Having said that, I guess it *can* matter for min/maxing stats. Not sure about that. Even then, I think you'd have to "play the game" to try to figure out what it's going to do. Not sure it's worth all that for lowbie & midbie.

 

Secondly, on server pops: queues for PvP aren't too long on Red Eclipse, although you do see a lot of the same faces. Being in the fleet or on a story world, the population is usually over 100 unless it's a quiet time of day. Go into a Flashpoint and it massively drops off. Haven't tried GF so can't speak for queues there.

I suspect this game just appeals to far more story mode players than PvPers and that's that.

 

When this game first came out, I remember it "being reported" (no idea if it was really true) that Bioware said they were overwhelmed by the amount of PvP going on in the game, and that they didn't expect that much interest. Since then they've worked steadily to reduce that interest.

 

Bioware has made this into a single player game. They put out miniscule PvP content, dropped their original big PvP planet, dropped ranked-8's, and generally don't answer any PvP questions, etc. As I understand it, the PvE side isn't much better with respect to end-game content. But what they do put it out is major SINGLE PLAYER story content. Seems very weird for an MMO, but I guess they decided that was to be their niche.

 

Finally, any tips on optimum rotation?

 

No idea on that one. I don't remember your class. Although, the general advice I always read (and seems to me to be true) is you'll never get an optimal rotation off. You want to be thinking in terms of a priority system. I have an engineering sniper, so I"m thinking in terms of explosive probe with auto-crit if I can get it for insta-dmg-gotta-bring-that-girl-down-fast, interrigation probe for dot and slow, take-down when they get low, series of shots I just got recently so not sure where that fits in. I think I should be using frag-grenade a bit more for energy management, not sure. I try to remember shatter-shot (healer debuf) on priority targets, but I'm not too good at that. And, of course, I spam the leg-shoot for the root. But I'm not an A-player (or even a B-player) for DPS output, so I probably have that all wrong.

[TheGhostOfSlade]

Bioware has made this into a single player game. They put out miniscule PvP content, dropped their original big PvP planet, dropped ranked-8's, and generally don't answer any PvP questions, etc. As I understand it, the PvE side isn't much better with respect to end-game content. But what they do put it out is major SINGLE PLAYER story content. Seems very weird for an MMO, but I guess they decided that was to be their niche.

 

I first started looking into this game when it came out. I was fairly broke and not an MMO player, and when it went F2P I considered getting it since the stuff locked off for subs didn't seem to hugely affect the basic story. I ended up not getting it because it wouldn't work on my computer, but my impression (although I saw complaints about the lack of endgame PvP) was that the story mode was the stuff they were willing to give away for free in order to draw people into wanting to sub and do the PvP and other stuff. It felt like there had to be a lot of expansion story and PvP if that's what subs were paying for (of course, there's all the other bonuses like multiple characters and getting past level 50 but you know what I mean).

 

Then I subbed to the game when I got money and a better laptop last September. And the PvP is (as I'm finding out) fun, but seemed so throwaway I could ignore it. I considered setting up a second legacy on a PvP server to see if uninstanced PvP would make the instanced PvP feel more essential, but apparently they're all dying.

 

No idea on that one. I don't remember your class. Although, the general advice I always read (and seems to me to be true) is you'll never get an optimal rotation off. You want to be thinking in terms of a priority system.

 

I'm Concealment Op. What I've been doing is, if I have to fight up close I stealth in and then Backstab-Shiv-Lacerate-Sever Tendon (to slow them)-Crippling Strike-Backstab (if possible, if not go straight to Shiv)-Lacerate-rinse-repeat. From a distance, I'll go Corrosive Dart-Snipe-Grenade-Flashbang-[Call for backup if needed on node defence or whatever, or self-Kolto if they're hitting me too hard] and then as they close the distance I'll use Overload Shot and my basic attack before switching to melee attacks. On node defence, I'll hit them from stealth with Sleep Dart when they try to cap, then call incoming if I need to, break stealth when they exit the stun with Backstab and start my melee rotation. Of course, I still have a lot of attacks to learn so that'll change over time.

Edited July 16, 2016 by TheGhostOfSlade