Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Chirikyat Ascendancy vs Republic Resistance

[LadyKulvax]

Where'd he say that?

 

In his blog which he treats as his unofficial end notes, whilst that of course is not official canon or perhaps I should say legends now, I see no reason to believe his word is flawed.

[Selenial]

Hmm, but according to Wookieepedia "many Venator-class Star Destroyers of the Open Circle Fleet had SPHA-T turbolaser cannons installed inside their ventral hangar bays", I don't know how many is many but I think its a precedence for saying considering we are taking capital ships at their most advanced levels, they should all have one.

 

Those are my thoughts.

The Open Circle fleet was not the entire republic navy.

 

Also, trust me over Wookieepedia. Its a mis-Quote, the source actually says:

 

On the initiative of General Skywalker, some Venator class ships feature additional SPHA-T cannons here to increase ventral Firepower

[Selenial]

Rayla, I think you mean Hondo and his pirates.

 

Noting of course that Kenobi had just chopped off Savage's arm, I fail to see how this applies.

[Beniboybling]

His abilities in farsight are highly circumstantial though and if he is too concentrated on giving direction to and amping his Massassi then he may well be taken by surprise.

 

Also Kun could simply be trapped inside a Wall of Light and quite possibly be destroyed as happened to the Massassi, Nadd did after all imbue his body with the Dark Side directly like Sadow did to those same Massassi we refer to, all Massassi not drained by Kun were obliterated by the Wall of Light.

 

If less than a dozen of Luke's students could summon a WoL then the Jedi here definitely can.

Surely a Force User of Kun's caliber would be able to see an impending attack, simply by sensing their impending presence, he did at the end of the Great Sith War did he not? I just can't see him being taken by surprise.

 

I'm not sure a Wall of Light would work, Luke student's were quite powerful and Exar Kun weakened/in spirit form. And in this case Exar Kun can draw on the power of his temple, or outright attack them and prevent them from perform it.

[Beniboybling]

The Open Circle fleet was not the entire republic navy.

 

Also, trust me over Wookieepedia. Its a mis-Quote, the source actually says:

 

On the initiative of General Skywalker, some Venator class ships feature additional SPHA-T cannons here to increase ventral Firepower

Alright, well then I guess it would be accurate to provide one or two.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I didn't realise Darth Maul had become IG-88, I also think he has been slightly over - estimated here in his ability to so effortlessly infiltrate both my camp and my flagship..

 

Well he did infiltrate the Black Sun, he has moved aboard ships without anyone noticing him, he killed everyone in the Orsis Academy(which trained assassins, spies, trackers, soldiers) without so much a sound being made, including a Mandalorian BH when he was only in his early teens. He can cloak himself from guards, use mind tricks...so I think Maul's infiltration skill is good enough.

 

He may not do it 'effortlessly' but he could do it.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

In his blog which he treats as his unofficial end notes, whilst that of course is not official canon or perhaps I should say legends now, I see no reason to believe his word is flawed.

 

Alright, if that's what we're going with.

 

Actually, if we want to capitalize on the Bellator's power, consider this:

 

The Bellator is of the same basic power level as the Mandator III, which is an upgrade of the Mandator II. Venators could take on a "handful" of Recusant-class light destroyers used by the CIS. The Mandator II was said to be able to be able to take on up to a 1000 of them. (At least according to this Wookieepedia page)

 

Meaning that the Bellator may actually be about x100 as powerful as a Venator (minimum).

 

A bit OP, in my opinion. Even for a flagship.

[Warren-Stride]

The enemy has the advantage of knowing that Maul will try to assassinate their leaders which right away makes his job much harder...

 

No, they don't. Maul is an ally, so they don't know he exists until he strikes.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Beniboybling]

I didn't realise Darth Maul had become IG-88, I also think he has been slightly over - estimated here in his ability to so effortlessly infiltrate both my camp and my flagship.

 

The enemy has the advantage of knowing that Maul will try to assassinate their leaders which right away makes his job much harder and evidently just walking into Cody's command post won't bold well for him, remember the fact that his later iteration along with his brother were shot multiple times by Cad Bane and his pirates, now imagine what happens if he gets caught.

 

Not to mention that sonic weaponry in multiple forms are in the arsenal of Clonetroopers, knowing Maul is a serious threat, weapons such as sonic blasters, rifles and detonators may be made a necessity in case of said attack and these weapons can easily be stocked via once again dominating the black market and having Kuat.

 

If I was a smart person which all of my leadership are, I'd be using black market connections and Kuat + subsidiaries to get ahold of anti-stealth equipment.

 

Also even Kun amped could only truly be so effective, or have we entirely forgotten how Vaapad works? the more Kun is amped the more Windu is, whom by the way is already being greatly boosted by Battle Meld, as will all the Jedi Knights because of Sunrider who is an extremely formidable opponent herself.

#104 Combatants have limited knowledge of their opponents. They are only aware of the nature of the enemies Head of State and Second-in-Command, not their allies of whom they do not know exist, finally they are aware of the size and firepower of military forces.

 

So Maul is an unknown until revealed. And how will you be getting this black market tech exactly?

 

I agree on one thing however, Maul is not a stealthy assassin - I don't think he even knows how to mask his presence in the Force, let alone cloak himself. Maul is a brute force assassin, you send him in, he slaughters everyone, reaches his target and kills them. See the assassination of Alexi Gayrn for details. I don't he'd be able to sneak behind enemy lines.

[Beniboybling]

Well he did infiltrate the Black Sun, he has moved aboard ships without anyone noticing him, he killed everyone in the Orsis Academy(which trained assassins, spies, trackers, soldiers) without so much a sound being made, including a Mandalorian BH when he was only in his early teens. He can cloak himself from guards, use mind tricks...so I think Maul's infiltration skill is good enough.

 

He may not do it 'effortlessly' but he could do it.

Oh he did and can? I retract the above statement then.

[Selenial]

Alright, well then I guess it would be accurate to provide one or two.

 

Well, seeing as later sources say Skywalker only fitted ships in his fleet with it, I'd say it is about 10% of the Venators in the republic fleet.

 

And like I said, I'd be happy to give 1, rounding up, but then it becomes an argument of "this venator will get targeted first and go down quickest so it doesn't matter" and "no, this venator has a SPHA so it'll live longest" and seeing the huge difference the survival or destruction of the Sole SPHA-T would make, it seems a bit pointless.

 

 

Now let me do my job XD

[Beniboybling]

In his blog which he treats as his unofficial end notes, whilst that of course is not official canon or perhaps I should say legends now, I see no reason to believe his word is flawed.

He would happen to have anything on the Allegiance-class? I believe he designed that.

[Selenial]

Beni, he killed Alexi like that to make a point.

 

I agree with wolf, he has shown the ability to mask himself from guards, and mask his presence in the force. Hell, he can even moderate how much he hides it, he masked his presence slightly from a Dathmiri witch to make her think she could face him, only revealing himself as such a powerful sith before she died, all in order to lure her out and kill her.

[Beniboybling]

Alright, if that's what we're going with.

 

Actually, if we want to capitalize on the Bellator's power, consider this:

 

The Bellator is of the same basic power level as the Mandator III, which is an upgrade of the Mandator II. Venators could take on a "handful" of Recusant-class light destroyers used by the CIS. The Mandator II was said to be able to be able to take on up to a 1000 of them. (At least according to this Wookieepedia page)

 

Meaning that the Bellator may actually be about x100 as powerful as a Venator (minimum).

 

A bit OP, in my opinion. Even for a flagship.

Just to note, I call baloney on those stats, regardless of whether they are canon.

 

I mean lets be real, 1000 Recusants would obliterate just about anything.

[LadyKulvax]

Well then Maul doesn't know Nek or Cody exist to assassinate does he?

 

Nek has shown great ability to lay low from advanced networks of assassins and saboteurs

 

Cody will be surrounded by his men and if we are assuming Kun can sense an attack on his temple then it is also fair to believe that both Mace and Nomi combined would see Maul's attempts coming if he tried them.

Edited July 3, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Silenceo]

Well then Maul doesn't know Nek or Cody exist to assassinate does he?

 

Nek has shown great ability to lay low from advanced networks of assassins and saboteurs

 

Cody will be surrounded by his men and if we are using Kun can sense an attack on his temple then it is also fair to believe that both Mace and Nomi combined would see Maul's attempts coming if he tried them.

 

The difference is that Maul knows how to hide his presence if he needs to. Does Nomi or Mace?

[Wolfninjajedi]

The difference is that Maul knows how to hide his presence if he needs to. Does Nomi or Mace?

 

He did sneak up on Dooku so...yeah he could hide himself.

 

My blade doesn't light the underside of Fett's square jaw. I don't waste time with words. I don't hesitate. I believe. In my dreams, the purple flare of my blade sizzles the gray hairs of Dooku's beard, and in the critical semisecond it takes Jango Fett to aim and fire, I twitch that blade and take Dooku with me into death. And save the galaxy from civil war.

 

I could have done it.

 

Source : Shatterpoint

Edited July 3, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

The difference is that Maul knows how to hide his presence if he needs to. Does Nomi or Mace?

 

Mace does, anyone forgetting his ability to walk right up behind Dooku in the arena whom has extremely advanced precognitive and sense abilities, this points directly towards an ability to cloak himself in some way.

 

Also shatterpoint could warn Windu and given that both Cody and Nek will be shatterpoints in this battle, as their life or death will greatly effect the outcome, this is definitely a possibility, a strong one at that, Nomi also has shown an ability to sense danger in her companions.

[Silenceo]

Mace does, anyone forgetting his ability to walk right up behind Dooku in the arena whom has extremely advanced precognitive and sense abilities, this points directly towards an ability to cloak himself in some way.

 

Also shatterpoint could warn Windu and given that both Cody and Nek will be shatterpoints in this battle, as their life or death will greatly effect the outcome, this is definitely a possibility, a strong one at that, Nomi also has shown an ability to sense danger in her companions.

 

Isn't shatterpoint severely different in those two applications? As far as I recall, Windu was a master of shatterpoint in battle to spot enemies exploitable weaknesses and such. The wider view of shatterpoint I am not sure if he has mastered as well as say, Traya, who used shatterpoints on a large scale to arrange great deceptions and schemes to come to pass. I admit I have not yet had the pleasure to read Shatterpoint myself, so if he does use it on a larger scale than personal combat, then I apologize.

[Beniboybling]

Well then Maul doesn't know Nek or Cody exist to assassinate does he?

 

Nek has shown great ability to lay low from advanced networks of assassins and saboteurs

 

Cody will be surrounded by his men and if we are assuming Kun can sense an attack on his temple then it is also fair to believe that both Mace and Nomi combined would see Maul's attempts coming if he tried them.

Lol, a fair point. But then again Daala might recognise Nek's tactics. And they'll all know somebody is commanding from the bridge. Cody should also be fairly easy to spot. Nek can't exactly "lay low" in the heat of battle.

[LadyKulvax]

No Windu on many occasions saw shatterpoints far beyond just combat applications.

 

I would also point out that Windu may well be able to kill Mandalore and even perhaps Kun himself, Nomi stays at the Great Temple and draws Kun's attention whilst Mandalore is killed, then faces and kills Kun against whom Windu's Vaapad should have a field day, so much rage would amp Windu considerably and if Windu can defeat Sidious with an amp he can damn sure beat Kun.

 

Nomi would also give Windu intimate knowledge of Kun so surprises would be at a minimum whereas Kun is facing a form unlike anything he has ever seen, he is also facing a straight up greater calibre opponent than anything he has ever faced then you add shatterpoint... and Nomi's Battle Meditation that may well attack Kun directly.

 

I think this is definitely possible and Kun would never see it coming.

Edited July 3, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

No Windu on many occasions saw shatterpoints far beyond just combat applications.

 

I would also point out that Windu may well be able to kill Mandalore and even perhaps Kun himself, Nomi stays at the Great Temple and draws Kun's attention whilst Mandalore is killed, then faces and kills Kun against whom Windu's Vaapad should have a field day, so much rage would amp Windu considerably and if Windu can defeat Sidious with an amp he can damn sure beat Kun.

 

Nomi would also give Windu intimate knowledge of Kun so surprises would be at a minimum whereas Kun is facing a form unlike anything he has ever seen, he is also facing a straight up greater calibre opponent than anything he has ever faced then you add shatterpoint... and Nomi's Battle Meditation that may well attack Kun directly.

 

I think this is definitely possible and Kun would never see it coming.

Windu's amp when fighting Sidious was one of exceptional circumstances, a product of the powerful emotions stirred up by effectively his world collapsing around him - he won't have that here.

 

Not that I don't deny Vaapad won't give Windu and edge, but it may not be enough to defeat Kun - especially considering his powers in Sith Sorcery, I'd like to see Windu deflect those. Dark side tendrils anyone?

 

Anyway, further thoughts on that later, we should really focus on space.

[LadyKulvax]

Lol, a fair point. But then again Daala might recognise Nek's tactics. And they'll all know somebody is commanding from the bridge. Cody should also be fairly easy to spot. Nek can't exactly "lay low" in the heat of battle.

 

Cody will be surrounded by his men and Nek will be in the heart of a fortress effectively, there is also the possibility of Jedi Knights acting as guards.

 

But I actually just thought of another prong to my intel advantage, they could find out all about the opponent's leadership allies and that would be valuable information indeed.

[Beniboybling]

Cody will be surrounded by his men and Nek will be in the heart of a fortress effectively, there is also the possibility of Jedi Knights acting as guards.

 

But I actually just thought of another prong to my intel advantage, they could find out all about the opponent's leadership allies and that would be valuable information indeed.

I agree that its unlikely Maul could assassinate Cody, well maybe in the midst of battle if the Ascedancy got the upper hand. And I expect Nek will be guarded, but that's nothing Maul can't handle.

 

Concerning intel, yes they could, but only as much as they could and only after discovering their identities. For example could luck finding anything on Maul, Sidious would have kept his record clean and even though there are his exploits during the Clone Wars - these are schemes and events, not stat cards. So you're limited in your knowledge.

[LadyKulvax]

Windu's amp when fighting Sidious was one of exceptional circumstances, a product of the powerful emotions stirred up by effectively his world collapsing around him - he won't have that here.

 

Not that I don't deny Vaapad won't give Windu and edge, but it may not be enough to defeat Kun - especially considering his powers in Sith Sorcery, I'd like to see Windu deflect those. Dark side tendrils anyone?

 

Anyway, further thoughts on that later, we should really focus on space.

 

I do think Kun's own rage could bring him damn close though.

 

Oh and Sunrider has shown that when she genuinely meditates on her Battle Meditation she can directly mentally attack sorcerers whom use their power, think of it as a heat seeking missile directed at sorcery, something Kun doesn't know she can do, Windu could easily either seriously injure or kill him whilst this happens.

 

But very well later then.