Viable to level without Pistol Whip, Sucker Punch, Flying Fists?

[Mashugana]

I know this is probably a stupid questions since I just listed the basic rotation, but I LOVE the smuggler. I love my Operative. But I just cannot get into gameplay where I am punching and kicking Sith in full armor. It feels...silly.

 

Can I build and level a scoundrel where I rely on less used abilities to feel more like a sneaky blaster type? It is OK if the rotation is less that ideal, if it is borderline insane, if it relies more of the companions that normal, etc. I just want to see the smuggler story and have fun.

 

If not, maybe I need to just go the Gunslinger route.

 

Thanks for humoring a basically stupid question

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Well, you could play Dirty Fighting, though you still need Pistol Whip, but why does it feel silly? makes perfectly fine sense to me, the Scoundrel is using what he knows to combat the Sith Empire, using tricks, slights of hand, and bare knuckle brawling. it's part of the lore of being a Scoundrel.

[Mashugana]

Thanks - maybe I need to stick with it and see if it grows on me. But the Operative analogue of giant vibro knife attacks are so dang cool - and they feel like they really put the hurt on someone compared to a pistol whip.

 

Thanks for the advice - it may just be a preference thing

[TACeMossie]

Could always go Dirty Fighting, but grab the talent for upper hand from Underworld Medicine in the heals tree - whenever you need an upper hand, just heal yourself!

 

Alternatively, level as a healer.

[Uvirith]

Well, you could play Dirty Fighting, though you still need Pistol Whip, but why does it feel silly? makes perfectly fine sense to me, the Scoundrel is using what he knows to combat the Sith Empire, using tricks, slights of hand, and bare knuckle brawling. it's part of the lore of being a Scoundrel.

 

dont kid yourself, the b*tchslapping the scoundrel calls fighting is beyond ridiculous. It looks bad and sounds worse.

He has a freaking shotgun for crying out lout and he uses it for what, two skills?

[ArchangelLBC]

Man it'd be nice if Sucker Punch was replaced with an ability called Kneecap wherein you shoot them with the damn shotgun.

[Adovir]

I love telling my guild mates to upgrade their light sabers and blasters because I can punch as hard as them, I find it quite comical

[Shipwright]

Man it'd be nice if Sucker Punch was replaced with an ability called Kneecap wherein you shoot them with the damn shotgun.

 

Yes, I would love if the punches were replaced by the scattergun somehow.

[rvhausen]

What, you see a strategic issue with taking on a rancor by running up to it and punching it in the shin, then smacking it on the toe with your pistol grip in order to gain "the upper hand"? Hey, options are limited when you don't know how to shoot someone from the front with a shotgun.

 

Glad to see I'm not the only one that feels this way. I'd love to have a "shotgun class". Would be great if they added alternate / parallel skill options that allowed you to use the shotgun in place of fists and stock.

[Master-Nala]

Thanks - maybe I need to stick with it and see if it grows on me. But the Operative analogue of giant vibro knife attacks are so dang cool - and they feel like they really put the hurt on someone compared to a pistol whip.

 

Thanks for the advice - it may just be a preference thing

 

I hate the vibro knife. It feels just as silly to me. You walk up to a Jedi Knight, who has a frikken laser sword, when you are carrying around a blaster rifle. Feels just as silly to me as punching him in the kidney.

[Kazekamiha]

I hate the vibro knife. It feels just as silly to me. You walk up to a Jedi Knight, who has a frikken laser sword, when you are carrying around a blaster rifle. Feels just as silly to me as punching him in the kidney.

 

Word. I joke a lot on my vanguard about this.

 

"You have completed Marksmanship courses with flying colors! You can nail an Imp at 200 meters! Now, you must learn the most important thing in combat! Smacking the enemy with your gun! ... Why are you shooting the target! Club it! Club it with your gun!"

[CrutchCricket]

The Operative's knife attacks fit with a spy-type character. In fact the backstabs and cloaking make me think of the TF2 spy. Now if only we could disguise as elites...

 

The only thing is they look oversized. If I shank someone they have a freaking sword, or at least a machete stick out of them. That can get weird.

 

I'm doing a scoundrel now and pistol whipping and punching do seem weaker in comparison...

[ThirdDementor]

dont kid yourself, the b*tchslapping the scoundrel calls fighting is beyond ridiculous. It looks bad and sounds worse.

He has a freaking shotgun for crying out lout and he uses it for what, two skills?

 

Yep. In general, the Scoundrel feels like the cartoon version of the Operative. Where the Operative is all business and assassination and infiltration and professionalism and stabbery, the Scoundrel is basically one of the Loony Toons.

[Master-Nala]

The Operative's knife attacks fit with a spy-type character. In fact the backstabs and cloaking make me think of the TF2 spy. Now if only we could disguise as elites...

 

I really don't see how the knife attacks are any less silly than the punching and pistol whipping. It comes to this. These are well trained (or experienced) fighters walking up to combatants who have superior melee weapons, more reach, and clairvoyant powers. That makes no sense in either the case of a Scoundrel or Operative, so I just roll with it.

 

I'm doing a scoundrel now and pistol whipping and punching do seem weaker in comparison...

 

I don't know. I can sorta believe that if the Sith Lord allows you to close to that range that a punch in the kidney is more plausible than magic knife. But to each his own.

[CrutchCricket]

I really don't see how the knife attacks are any less silly than the punching and pistol whipping. It comes to this. These are well trained (or experienced) fighters walking up to combatants who have superior melee weapons, more reach, and clairvoyant powers. That makes no sense in either the case of a Scoundrel or Operative, so I just roll with it.

You're talking about Jedi/Sith? Well hell, if we really think about it, shooting at them is a dumb idea too, what with their "nope! reflected" abilities. If we really wanted to go full lore, Jedi and Sith would be unstoppable, except to each other with perhaps only Mandalorians being able to pick off one or two, situationally. As it is, it's the Force classes that generally feel weaker. Gameplay and Story Segregation yo.

 

Still, operatives/scoundrels level the playing field a bit with stealth generators and shield probes. Putting aside the Force for a second, if someone was able to appear right in front of you without you seeing them come up, they could shank you before you got a shot off. Guns only win with range if you have the time to use them before you're skewered.

 

I don't know. I can sorta believe that if the Sith Lord allows you to close to that range that a punch in the kidney is more plausible than magic knife. But to each his own.

Seriously? What's scarier, would do more damage and would hurt more: someone coming at you with his fists, or a knife? How many muggers have you heard of robbing people with just their fists?

 

As for the "magic knife" yeah that does make a difference. How effective is your kidney punch going to be if your target's wearing armor? Compare that to vibroblades which are designed to cut through at least a good chunk of that.

[Master-Nala]

You're talking about Jedi/Sith? Well hell, if we really think about it, shooting at them is a dumb idea too, what with their "nope! reflected" abilities. If we really wanted to go full lore, Jedi and Sith would be unstoppable, except to each other with perhaps only Mandalorians being able to pick off one or two, situationally. As it is, it's the Force classes that generally feel weaker. Gameplay and Story Segregation yo.

 

Right. That's my point. It's silly either way. The thesis of this thread is that the Scoundrel abilities seem silly. That's what the OP said. Here is his quote:

 

But I just cannot get into gameplay where I am punching and kicking Sith in full armor. It feels...silly.

 

Personally, I don't think the Force users would be unstoppable. They aren't in the movies. Plenty get killed by guys with guns. But like Jango Fett found out the hard way, running up on a Jedi Master is a good way to lose your head. So, if we're talking silly. They are both silly.

 

Seriously? What's scarier, would do more damage and would hurt more: someone coming at you with his fists, or a knife? How many muggers have you heard of robbing people with just their fists?

 

Actually, I have. It's a thing believe it or not. People are sitting in jail for it right now.

 

As for the "magic knife" yeah that does make a difference. How effective is your kidney punch going to be if your target's wearing armor? Compare that to vibroblades which are designed to cut through at least a good chunk of that.

 

Again, it's silly either way. The force using classes are clairvoyant and can sense the presence of beings around them. And most troopers and bounty hunters would understand that you don't bring a knife to a gunfight!

 

Don't take it the wrong way. I just like to defend the 'cool' factor of the Republic classes since its taken on faith here that the Imps have everything better.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Master-Nala

[Elyx]

Honestly, one of the reasons that I started a scoundrel was because I could sucker punch someone and kick them in the jimmy.

 

I find some of their moves a refreshing change from the lightsabers and blasters. on that note, I enjoy the Operatives zippy knife attacks for a similar reason.

 

I do agree that the Scoundrel could use more interesting actions though. I too would love to see more scatter-gun actions. a butt strike or followup hit to back blast that involves a full aimed shot, or perhaps swinging the butt around to the side of the head...

 

I don't think they're going to do a full scale revamp of the scoundrel's actions. lots of work for little return. better to look forward in all honesty...like to the new expansion. if they're going to add skills, we should push for some animations that bring us more in-line with that image you guys are looking for. new skill = scatter-gun action? for Operative, perhaps a full knife swing (like a nice finishing slice or something like that)?

 

were probably better off brainstorming the new skills then pushing for old skills to get re-skinned.

 

On the OP's note: you could probably survive fine without those skills. with the exception of the blaster whip. as an example, you could run up the dirty fighting tree. then your spending more time blasting things then hitting them in the kidneys. just because scrapper got revamped and is FotM right now doesn't mean that dirty fighting is useless. tolerate blaster whip (think of it as a distraction move...like clawing an opponents eyes in a fistfight, or a feint in fencing), and look to it as your lead into your more deadly attacks (the bleeds and the huge finishing move.)

 

IMO if your going for realism, dirty fighting is far better for that connection. you can still backblast as well, and get a bit of scatter-gun action in there. personally, on my scoundrel (leveling a second one atm), I go a hybrid. skill up the sawbones tree till i get emergency medpack and emergent emergencies. the rest go into the scrapper tree for flying fists and the appropriate boosting skills. you end up running more of a hybrid healer/companion support DPS tree. let your comp engage, throw up a few heals, wade in behind the mobs, and unleash suckerpunches and backblasts, adding heals as needed.

 

Iknow you don't like the scrapper tree, so that would only be an option if you wanted a flexible spec. I've gone full heals, and full DPS, and outside of a high end geared full DPS build, the hybrid build solos faster then both full builds (solo only...not saying it's viable to fill an end game role!).

 

outside of that, id try a full dirty fighting build OP. less smacking bad guy, and more Han Solo style shooting.

[CrutchCricket]

Right. That's my point. It's silly either way.

Well if you except one silliness, why not another?

 

Personally, I don't think the Force users would be unstoppable. They aren't in the movies. Plenty get killed by guys with guns. But like Jango Fett found out the hard way, running up on a Jedi Master is a good way to lose your head. So, if we're talking silly. They are both silly.

Yeah, maybe a LOT of guys with guns. A lot of guys that were fully dependable and had zero thoughts of ill will towards them and are really only mechanically following orders even as they shoot.

 

In short, unless the non-Force classes are you + a platoon of clones, you wouldn't be taking on Force-users and surviving.

 

Actually, I have. It's a thing believe it or not. People are sitting in jail for it right now.

Ratio of armed to unarmed muggings would still favor the former I'd wager. And nine times out of ten a guy with a knife will do more damage than one without.

 

Again, it's silly either way. The force using classes are clairvoyant and can sense the presence of beings around them. And most troopers and bounty hunters would understand that you don't bring a knife to a gunfight!

You do if you can go all Predator on their asses.

 

Don't take it the wrong way. I just like to defend the 'cool' factor of the Republic classes since its taken on faith here that the Imps have everything better.

Ehh... yeah, pretty much. Republic does have assault cannons though. It looks ridiculous strapped to a shoulder like it's made of plastic but when you got it out, it looks like you just ripped it off a starship and are about to mow down a legion.

[Frenesi]

In short, unless the non-Force classes are you + a platoon of clones, you wouldn't be taking on Force-users and surviving.

 

Well, famous jedi spider sense fails too many times to be considered useful in combat. Some of force attacks can be endured. And as non-forceusers we have 4 best fighers in the galaxy who are:

 

Heavy, probably cortosis-armored mandalorian using power armor, and flamethrower as melee weapon. Yes, jedi can fight him. But it will be even fight.

 

Heavy, probably cortosis-armored mandalorian with loads of anti-armor rockets, most of them with auto-aim. While they can be deflected, you only need to miss 1 to die instantly. And you need to deflect blaster fire at the same time.

 

Elite sniper. He needs only one shot to take out force user, most likely from ambush and from 500+ meters distance.

 

Elite assassin. Best training Empire can provide, cortosis knifes (probably), stealth, poison, reaction-increasing drugs and mathematical approach to fight. I can definetely see this fighting with jedi.

 

Best-of-the-best gunner with gun/explosives designed to destroy heavy vehicles. Same way as mercenary. And I really want to see sith deflecting demolition round.

 

Best-of-the-best trooper with face-melting pulse cannon.

 

Gunslinger probably can shoot good/fast enough to overcome saber defence.

 

And scoundrel simply sucks

[CrutchCricket]

Well, famous jedi spider sense fails too many times to be considered useful in combat. Some of force attacks can be endured. And as non-forceusers we have 4 best fighers in the galaxy who are:

And you're basing this on, what exactly? Apart from the instance I've mentioned when have you seen any Jedi or Sith "fail" to detect danger?

 

As for attacks any Jedi/Sith worth his salt in telekinesis will just snap your neck and be done with it. There's no "enduring that" unless you can protect yourself with the Force.

 

Gameplay is one thing. Lore is another. In these cases, lore must be sacrificed to provide variety and fun. But don't kid yourself. In a "loristic" (lore+realistic) situation, every single non-Force using class would get stomped nine times out of ten, except perhaps Mandalorians.

[TACeMossie]

And you're basing this on, what exactly? Apart from the instance I've mentioned when have you seen any Jedi or Sith "fail" to detect danger?

 

Order 66

 

Only Yoda sensed the danger, everyone else who survived wasn't around clones at the time or were just really, really good at their job

 

Remember, the stronger the power of the dark side at that time, the less likely the Jedi's "Spider Sense" will kick in. And with Sith running around like crazy right now its highly unlikely that the Spider Sense will work properly at all.

Edited September 25, 2014 by TACeMossie

[CrutchCricket]

Remember, the stronger the power of the dark side at that time, the less likely the Jedi's "Spider Sense" will kick in. And with Sith running around like crazy right now its highly unlikely that the Spider Sense will work properly at all.

Except the reason that was happening was because Plagueis and Sidious were intentionally doing that. "tipping the balance towards the dark side". Still not sure what that means but it's probably more in there to cover the faults of the prequels than anything else. The Sith in this era aren't stated to be doing that, not even the Emperor.

 

You would think they would. But either they haven't invented that ritual yet, or Palpatine really was the best Sith of all time.

Edited September 26, 2014 by CrutchCricket
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