thomasbaxter Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 So the new group finder came out and turned out to be a disappointment. If you're bolstering everyone up to play the ops then clearly the consensus is that it's more about the story (which is correct). If this is the case tho why can't 55+ run the EV, KP etc for level 50-54? plus if it's going to be a story mode then it should be 16 man. If it's going to be 8 man they should at least be HM or the comms should be altered....just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 They had it set to 16 man originally, but discovered it caused to many problems. It causing people to DC on a consistent basis, mess with loading screens, and even Logging into game. These problems forced them to go back to 8 man for the GF queu's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I agree with the 50-54 part that 55's should be bale to queue for it - just like we can queue for the 50 HM FPs. Maybe reduce the comms from 30 for the lesser op ( if they aren't already? ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) They had it set to 16 man originally, but discovered it caused to many problems. That, plus a loud whining that 16-man was a bad thing. Edited June 20, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) That, plus a loud whining that 16-man was a bad thing. Perhaps you have me on ignore, since you no longer respond to my rebuttals when you make statements like this. But just in case, I'll give it another try. Was there actually a lot of whining about 16-man being a bad thing? If so, I didn't really notice it, and I certainly spend more time in the forums than I probably should. I remember seeing posts complaining about the PvE bolster, but hardly anything complaining about 16-man. This makes me think you're exaggerating. And from a logical perspective, 16-man makes sense. First of all, 16-man doesn't require twice the healers and tanks, it requires more dps. Which more closely matches the ratio of dps to tanks/heals in the game itself. More people would be able to get a group. Second of all (for story mode), 16-man is more forgiving of mistakes than 8-man. Which hopefully would translate into the group more likely to make it to the end. Lastly, your statement seems to imply that Bioware would have listened to this supposed whining and for that reason reduced it from 16-man down to 8. This, I find a trifle absurd. Are you willing to debate your position on this subject? Or will you continue to pop into threads and made snide comments about elitists, then run away? Edited June 20, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlixMV Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 First of all, 16-man doesn't require twice the tanks, it requires more dps. I fixed that for you. 16m Ops generally do take twice the number of Healers (4) as 8m. The only difference between 8m and 16m is marginal: instead of double the tanks, you take 2 more DPS. 8m Tanks: 25% DPS: 50% Healers: 25% 16m Tanks: 12.5% DPS: 62.5% Healers: 25% ---- Most of the time I tried to PUG 16m Ops in the past, the limiting factor has been trying to get Healers, not tanks. Given that my experience also is that Healers have a similar rarity as tanks, those numbers would bear out why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I fixed that for you. 16m Ops generally do take twice the number of Healers (4) as 8m. The only difference between 8m and 16m is marginal: instead of double the tanks, you take 2 more DPS. Thanks. One question, though. I never got a chance to try the 16-man group finder before it was downgraded back to 8. Do you know if the group finder required 4 healers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loc_n_lol Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Was there actually a lot of whining about 16-man being a bad thing? There was some "whine" that putting 16-man in the group finder made 8-man absolutely worthless, since the disparity in rewards was gigantic. So it's not that 16-man is bad, it's just that there are good reasons to prefer 8-man, but Bioware goes out of their way to make sure nobody truely wants to play it. Do you know if the group finder required 4 healers? It did. I did S&V 16SM through the group finder on two characters. Edited June 21, 2014 by Loc_n_lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatnatz Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) There was some "whine" that putting 16-man in the group finder made 8-man absolutely worthless, since the disparity in rewards was gigantic. So it's not that 16-man is bad, it's just that there are good reasons to prefer 8-man, but Bioware goes out of their way to make sure nobody truely wants to play it. And honestly I agree with the change back to 8-man queues. This leaves two choices for raiders, each with their advantages: 1) Walk into whatever operation you wish in 16-man mode, get elite and ultimate commendationss from each boss; you don't have to complete the operation to get extra ultimates (separate from weekly reward and 1-time quests). The more bosses you can down successfully, the more ultimates you get. Even if you don't get to the weekly, you can still get some ultimates in your pocket. 2) Queue up for the 8-man operation of the day. This is most commonly done in premade groups, with queue being used to fill a couple spots or find replacements mid-raid. You only get elite commendations from the bosses, but upon full completion of the operation, you get 30 ultimates in addition to the weekly (which is more than you get from any of the 16 mans). In hindsight, the one advantage of the 16-man queue was that it suddenly discouraged the whole "weekly warrior" problem, where raid members would bail after the weekly and make it more difficult for players to complete one-time quests. But I think it's fine the way it is now... there is an easy way to get ultimate comms as you progress through a 16-man, but also an even bigger reward for sticking it out to the end in 8-man. Personally, I'm enjoying being able to do 8-man pug ops regularly again... they run much smoother and it's easier to micro-manage if people don't understand what to do. Many players in 16-man ops seem to think they don't have to understand fight mechanics and contribute to the group, they just expect to get carried. Another thing about 16-man queues: replacements. People leave much more frequently in a 16-man group, which should come as no surprise to anyone. Now, I'm sure a lot of you have gotten frustrated with seeing "You cannot invite players to a groupfinder formed group." Therefore, trying to fill all of those spots via queue would be a huge pain, yea? Another reason not to do a 16-man queue, instead players can join in at their own convenience if a spot needs to be filled. Edited June 24, 2014 by spatnatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 With the ease of getting the 180 gear now with ult comms ( regardless of the elitests trying to justify lower tier gear with set bonus is better - if you are pulling the mod/arm/enhances/hilts you need then it's not imo ) I'm finding less need for 4 healers in any 16M story mode. We pretty much face rolled DF with 3 healers and 2 tanks and that was minus the extra dps the 4th healer spot could have taken ( so 15m ) to the point it seemed that even 2 healers and 2 extra dps could have done the trick ( aslong as the tanks are staying alive and people follow mechanics more or less ). That was a pug group too. No doubt HM+ 4 healers are needed but not SM I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadarox Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This new GF is utterly disappointing. The wait times, especially for DPS, are absolutely ridiculous. To top it all off, most people are pre-making the groups anyways, then que'ing. I don't know what it's like on other servers but on Jedi Covenant, I've seen 4, even, 5 separate groups looking for 1 or 2 of each class for close to an hour before they finally get enough together for a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kojottt Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 roll tank, problem fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loc_n_lol Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 roll tank, problem fixed Doesn't help. They're not the limiting factor anymore. It just needs too many people and you may find yourself short of just about anything. Typically healers but not always. Anyway, the point is, people went right back to making groups on the fleet, they are not using the group finder to find groups. This only seems to work for flashpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrica Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 In a way i can understand pre-forming groups, you get at least an idea of the player joining up front. Via group finder just queueing you might end up with a group full of 146 geared players (or even less now with the 12x xp), and believe me, even with bolster you don't want that. On Red Eclipse there's tons of groups forming like that, though most of them always have issues with getting tanks, seems on RE there is a bit of a tank shortage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 since the change back from 8 to 16 i have found myself in less and less groupfinder ops wasn't as much a challenge to scrape together 8 players, trying to organize 16 most times isn't worth the effort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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