Kaggath Battlegrounds

[Aurbere]

First, you guys complain about Traya being OP or Overblown (They're the same thing) all the time, but you guys at least had the option to voice an opinion on whether to allow her or not. You all just made the wrong choice.

At least grant us that option, seeing as we do have the information on this character that most of you did not have last time.

 

Now, You seem to not understand.

 

She did These feats to Luke and Caedus, (Solo at the time) who were some of the most a powerful of all time, and even they couldn't defend against them.

Second, she's part of the killing hive mind. Which means every piece of knowledge any if the billions of killiks ever gathered is in her head. She knows all our forces, all our combatants, every strategies... The lot. That also seems, a tad OP.

She was amped, but she WILL ALWAYS be amped, you can't disconnect her, so all her abilities stand and will be the same...

 

Pretty much, yeah.

[Selenial]

Pretty much, yeah.

Btw, you seem to be failing to notice something too...

 

She will have the hive mind, because you can pick the era you get your character from, and the killiks are actually a Ground force here...

[Selenial]

Whatever, just making it clear. Just leave her in. When she lolstomps everyone, then you'll see.

 

To be honest, I'm fine with this.

 

Mainly because I am one of two people with a counter to Plo, she can't touch my faction (though her actual faction cold still win) so I'm happy to let her take all of you out of the way.

[Aurbere]

Btw, you seem to be failing to notice something too...

 

She will have the hive mind, because you can pick the era you get your character from, and the killiks are actually a Ground force here...

 

Trust me, I'm fully aware of that fact. In fact, I was going to bring it up, as well as the numerous arguments that could be used if the Killiks were paired with her, which they probably will be.

[Aurbere]

To be honest, I'm fine with this.

 

Mainly because I am one of two people with a counter to Plo, she can't touch my faction (though her actual faction cold still win) so I'm happy to let her take all of you out of the way.

 

I'm actually working on a counter to her, but it's not complete yet.

[Selenial]

I'm actually working on a counter to her, but it's not complete yet.

 

Good luck, interested in seeing what you come up with...

[Aurbere]

Good luck, interested in seeing what you come up with...

 

It's an extreme long shot, but I hope it works.

[StarSquirrel]

First, I read all the NJO series and Dark Nest trilogy books, same as you Aurbere regardless of Beni or Silenceo's knowledge base. You presume too much, I know her abilities quite well.

 

I call BS on her matching strength with Luke. Lots of people have engaged Luke and kept up with him for a time or surprised him and got him on the back foot. That hardly makes her equal to him. She used an ability he'd never faced before, after facing her twice, he knew her abilities and roflstomped her with a broken arm. Oh and that "matching force powers" was her AND UnuThul going at him, not just Plo.

 

Also, as I've previously made clear her ability to best Mara and match Caedus was under mitigating circumstance. She had the whole freakin nest surrounding her and them with armies of Killiks raining down on their heads and her attack was sudden and while the others were distracted iirc. Even then, she got disarmed and then shot, hardly a win, hell she didn't even have a Killik take out Luke as she withdrew...

 

Actually iirc it was Luke's fear of losing Mara and Jacen that she used to paralyze him (a weakness not inherent to the majority of the force-wielding combatants in this tournament).

 

Her abilities impress me, don't get me wrong. I think whoever chose her had a brilliant idea. Combined with the Killiks she is definitely a monster. But remember she was also losing the Swarm War to the Chiss and GA even with the support of all the insectoid species in the known galaxy. She has even fewer advantages in this battle.

 

Oh, and she was insane after the Vong AND Killiks screwed with her brain... In fact, she was easily fooled, stubborn, irrational (at times) and haphazard to list some negative qualities.

 

Plenty of defenses from her without a tailor-made counter much less with one.

 

As to the Traya crap, yes you overblow her and she did very little to facilitate your win Sel and while Beni agreed, he tended to keep you in check as well, it was actually more the Stealth Fleet/Rakata Tech and your planet choices that carried your team imo. Even then, you lost the very first round so what exactly were you trying to prove, how exactly did we make the "wrong choice" even if you did end up winning thanks to double elimination? That just shows you had a good, but defeatable, team.

 

I meant no offence Sel, it was a well built team. But don't place credit where it isn't due.

 

Aurbere I see where you're coming from, but I think when we get into the debate you'll see Lomi Plo will be no more or less Op than Traya, G0-T0, Krayt, Vader, etc...

 

So now you've "told us" and if whoever has Plo wins I will congratulate them all the same for a smart pick and you can feel validated, happy?

 

Disclaimer: I don't have Lomi Plo but I'm fairly certain I have a good counter.

[Silenceo]

Just wanted to state that i HAVE read the Dark Nest books, but that was years ago and I had forgotten who Lomi Plo was, after being reminded I remember the core events of the books. Wasn't really all that interesting of a villain in my opinion, so might of been why I had forgotten about her. *Or it was the fact that at that point in time I had just read the entire Vong war and when it came to a war with insectoid species, the kiliks, I likely was a bit bored...*

 

The way I view her now that I remember her is more of a multiplicative force. For example, in my mind she is say, just for a random numbers sake, strength of 83. But when she is in proximity of other kiliks you multiple that by the x variable. So if she is near Kiliks its 83x=strength. However, if she is near a nest *high concentration of kiliks* it is more like (83x)y=strength. Yes the argument could be made that as the Unseen Queen she can not be separated from the hive mind, but I am fairly sure that the ability to draw strength from others in the hive mind is limited by distance.

 

The Swarm War is still a bit hazy, but if I remember correctly, she did not seem all that great in lightsaber combat, most times that she appears it seems like she gets injured in some manner. One thing I do wonder though, is when a kilik is hurt near her, does she feel its pain due to being linked via the hive mind? Always wondered this piece, since if I recall when jedi form battle melds do they not share some things such as that? *to a lesser degree*

[Aurbere]

First, I read all the NJO series and Dark Nest trilogy books, same as you Aurbere regardless of Beni or Silenceo's knowledge base. You presume too much, I know her abilities quite well.

 

Yes, I'm sure you have, but I have the Dark Nest Trilogy right in front of me. What I am talking about is 100% fact. You are, apparently, missing several crucial facts.

 

I won't reply to everything because, frankly, my tolerance is wearing thin.

 

I call BS on her matching strength with Luke. Lots of people have engaged Luke and kept up with him for a time or surprised him and got him on the back foot. That hardly makes her equal to him. She used an ability he'd never faced before, after facing her twice, he knew her abilities and roflstomped her with a broken arm. Oh and that "matching force powers" was her AND UnuThul going at him, not just Plo.

 

To the underlined part, no it wasn't. UnuThul wasn't even there in the battle I'm talking about.'

 

And about their final battle, we have to take into account the context of that engagement. Luke was fully aware of all of her capabilities after several encounters with her. This is something that no one in these Kaggaths will have.

 

Also "roflstomp" is a gross overestimation. He was "desperate" and barely able to defend himself.

 

So now you've "told us" and if whoever has Plo wins I will congratulate them all the same for a smart pick and you can feel validated, happy?

 

Disclaimer: I don't have Lomi Plo but I'm fairly certain I have a good counter.

 

I don't care if Lomi Plo wins, I don't care if she loses. The point I'm making is that we should be wary about including someone like her. She is incredibly dangerous and very difficult to stop.

 

So, no, I won't be happy if/when she wins.

[Aurbere]

Just wanted to state that i HAVE read the Dark Nest books, but that was years ago and I had forgotten who Lomi Plo was, after being reminded I remember the core events of the books. Wasn't really all that interesting of a villain in my opinion, so might of been why I had forgotten about her. *Or it was the fact that at that point in time I had just read the entire Vong war and when it came to a war with insectoid species, the kiliks, I likely was a bit bored...*

 

The way I view her now that I remember her is more of a multiplicative force. For example, in my mind she is say, just for a random numbers sake, strength of 83. But when she is in proximity of other kiliks you multiple that by the x variable. So if she is near Kiliks its 83x=strength. However, if she is near a nest *high concentration of kiliks* it is more like (83x)y=strength. Yes the argument could be made that as the Unseen Queen she can not be separated from the hive mind, but I am fairly sure that the ability to draw strength from others in the hive mind is limited by distance.

 

The Swarm War is still a bit hazy, but if I remember correctly, she did not seem all that great in lightsaber combat, most times that she appears it seems like she gets injured in some manner. One thing I do wonder though, is when a kilik is hurt near her, does she feel its pain due to being linked via the hive mind? Always wondered this piece, since if I recall when jedi form battle melds do they not share some things such as that? *to a lesser degree*

 

I never really cared for Lomi Plo as a villain. She seemed more like a plot device than anything else. UnuThul was far more interesting.

[Aurbere]

Also, as I've previously made clear her ability to best Mara and match Caedus was under mitigating circumstance. She had the whole freakin nest surrounding her and them with armies of Killiks raining down on their heads and her attack was sudden and while the others were distracted iirc. Even then, she got disarmed and then shot, hardly a win, hell she didn't even have a Killik take out Luke as she withdrew...

 

Oh, forgot about this.

 

This is also not fully accurate. You are correct that there were Killiks in the area. However, it was only her bodyguards. Kyle Katarn and a squad of StealhXs were keeping the rest of the nest from reinforcing her.

 

She deflected Luke's thrown debris into Mara to incapacitate her(by that I mean stun her). When she went for the killing blow, Jacen blocked the attack and disarmed her, but he utterly failed to defend himself from her second lightsaber. So while Mara was distracted, Jacen was not.

 

Oh, and she had suffered lightsaber cuts and impalement during her duel with Luke before Mara shot her. So good job pointing out how much damage she can take before having to flee.

 

Edit: Oh, and she didn't sick a Killik on Luke as she fled because she had been cut off from the hive mind.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Aurbere

[Silenceo]

I never really cared for Lomi Plo as a villain. She seemed more like a plot device than anything else. UnuThul was far more interesting.

 

As long as she does not have the powers of a 'Plot Device Supreme' we are fine...Some of the stronger plot devices are just so dangerous! The image I got when you said she was more like a plot device, was basically of an invisible cloud going around and forcing the story to go as it was meant to be, killing all who would interfere... Do not let this vision come to pass! :p:p

 

Now, if someone were to get UnuThul, that would be quite interesting indeed...

 

UnuThul vs Lomi Plo! Ready! BEGIN! *Kilk's in the stands unable to help either of them*

[Selenial]

First, I read all the NJO series and Dark Nest trilogy books, same as you Aurbere regardless of Beni or Silenceo's knowledge base. You presume too much, I know her abilities quite well.

I believe the only mention of your understanding was with the Traya issue. Nobody said you haven't read Dark Nest, problem is you seem to have an entirely different view on her abilities than we do. Generally we dicuss these things and not dismiss them, instead of saying "Oh, hey, 3 people say this, 3 say that, but I'm on this side so DW about it"

 

Actually iirc it was Luke's fear of losing Mara and Jacen that she used to paralyze him (a weakness not inherent to the majority of the force-wielding combatants in this tournament).

Ok, I'll just do a quick run down of the ones I actually remember from the list...

Maul - Always had doubts about his power as a sith, betrayal by Sidious etc.

Surik - Obvious

Dooku - Was actually a very insecure man, ALWAYS had doubts about following the dark side.

Revan - One of the few not affected, the dudes Cocky, he has no doubts.

Vader - Padme. Luke. Leia.... 'Nuff said

 

Everyone has insecurities, and her connection to the Killiks will let those insecurities be known, however the stealth was never an issue.

 

As to the Traya crap, yes you overblow her and she did very little to facilitate your win Sel and while Beni agreed, he tended to keep you in check as well, it was actually more the Stealth Fleet/Rakata Tech and your planet choices that carried your team imo. Even then, you lost the very first round so what exactly were you trying to prove, how exactly did we make the "wrong choice" even if you did end up winning thanks to double elimination? That just shows you had a good, but defeatable, team.

Overblowing is an opinion. I was unaware that those who have far less knowledge of one field dictate who is right and who is wrong. You have said it yourself, that the Kotor Era and OR is generally not your strong point. Tell me, had you ever even heard of Traya's vision of herself as a shatterpoint to the Jedi order before? Had you even realized that she killed 12 people with no movement, thanks to dark Healing, people who slaughter Jedi with ease?

People say I overblow her, but you've yet to actually come up with a counter argument. The visions was the main thing, and literally the only things you guys said that made me think, was that one is closer to the force on the brink of death.

 

Either way, this is opinion and it's what Beni decides that matters. In my opinion, Traya was overpowered. Very strong in battle, basically a hive mind for powerful force users, too easily manipulates other force wielders and people, can travel unseen anywhere. It's unreal that she was allowed.

 

Also, I reckon I could re-do my first match and give Canino a run for his money, seeing as I lost to having Vader in the core and no defense (But now I have Maul) and because literally nobody listened about the Rakata tech being way better until Rayla found the source in my penultimate Kaggath (Fleets were a huge issue at the start for me)

The past is the past though, I never made out that my faction was some god-like unstoppable force, I had more doubts than anyone.

 

Aurbere I see where you're coming from, but I think when we get into the debate you'll see Lomi Plo will be no more or less Op than Traya, G0-T0, Krayt, Vader, etc...

Thing is though, it's about counters, and we dont see many for Plo, just like there aren't really any for Traya, G0-T0, or Krayt. They're generally just incredibly powerful people, that Raylas even called to have banned in the past, this isn't a new thing.

 

Disclaimer: I don't have Lomi Plo but I'm fairly certain I have a good counter.

 

Indeed. I'm only fighting this as a favor to the Dark Side factions, Plo doesn't worry me at all...

 

Silenceo on the other hand >.>

[Aurbere]

As long as she does not have the powers of a 'Plot Device Supreme' we are fine...Some of the stronger plot devices are just so dangerous! The image I got when you said she was more like a plot device, was basically of an invisible cloud going around and forcing the story to go as it was meant to be, killing all who would interfere... Do not let this vision come to pass! :p:p

 

Now, if someone were to get UnuThul, that would be quite interesting indeed...

 

UnuThul vs Lomi Plo! Ready! BEGIN! *Kilk's in the stands unable to help either of them*

 

Poor Killiks can't do anything

[Silenceo]

 

Silenceo on the other hand >.>

 

*Shifty Eyes*

 

*waves hand in an imitation of a mind trick* I only have ewoks and gungans, I am no threat.

 

Though, I am pretty sure you know what I changed in the last few weeks Sel, and I think overall it was for the best, less...flimsy... as the previous choice.

[Aurbere]

Ok, I'll just do a quick run down of the ones I actually remember from the list...

Maul - Always had doubts about his power as a sith, betrayal by Sidious etc.

Surik - Obvious

Dooku - Was actually a very insecure man, ALWAYS had doubts about following the dark side.

Revan - One of the few not affected, the dudes Cocky, he has no doubts.

Vader - Padme. Luke. Leia.... 'Nuff said

 

Everyone has insecurities, and her connection to the Killiks will let those insecurities be known, however the stealth was never an issue.

 

Don't be dissing Dooku!

 

Oh, and you should be worrying about me.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Aurbere

[Silenceo]

Don't be dissing Dooku!

 

Oh, and you should be worrying about me.

 

Well, he was the thought to be chosen one until Anakin came along... Bet that threw his world view off a bit... Though he is still quite a threat, and something tells me he was able to squash his doubts mid-combat, just seems like something he would do since he always seems so confident. *Then again, he could just be a very, very good liar. *

[Aurbere]

Well, he was the thought to be chosen one until Anakin came along... Bet that threw his world view off a bit... Though he is still quite a threat, and something tells me he was able to squash his doubts mid-combat, just seems like something he would do since he always seems so confident. *Then again, he could just be a very, very good liar. *

 

I suppose we'll find out whenever the person with Dooku goes up against the person with Lomi.

 

*shifty eyes*

[Wolfninjajedi]

*Shifty Eyes*

 

*waves hand in an imitation of a mind trick* I only have ewoks and gungans, I am no threat.

 

Though, I am pretty sure you know what I changed in the last few weeks Sel, and I think overall it was for the best, less...flimsy... as the previous choice.

 

Actually Gungans would be pretty great against droids.

[Silenceo]

Actually Gungans would be pretty great against droids.

 

No! You discovered my master plan!!!

 

Btw, why did you seem surprised when someone took the Phase I Dark Troopers earlier? They seem fairly effective. Though, I need to know how to beat them, so I can then find a way to use my gungan bombad ion orbs!

 

Jokes aside... I am guessing you are not going to be making a faction?

Edited June 25, 2014 by Silenceo

[StarSquirrel]

Yes, I'm sure you have, but I have the Dark Nest Trilogy right in front of me. What I am talking about is 100% fact. You are, apparently, missing several crucial facts.

So, no, I won't be happy if/when she wins.

 

No, I have the books sitting here in front of me as well. I'm not ignoring facts, though at times we are discussing different fights it appears. I'm also ignoring many of the author's word choices used to promote dramatic tension. Ones you've so helpfully pointed out. If we go based on the actual actions and depictions he might not have rolfstomped her but he did defeat her soundly.

 

Also, as to Caedus, I had mentioned the part where he'd recently sustained a head trauma (thought by Luke to be a concussion) and he was obviously disoriented. He only came to Mara's aid after breaking off his fight against the Gorog. It is quite clear in the book that he and Mara were very busy with the Gorog.

 

Also every time during that fight the book says "Luke wasn't strong enough" it follows up with "to immediately do X" or ignores what it said and has Luke do the thing he apparently can't do. But he was essentially fighting the entire Nest's force potential at once. And by nest, we are of course referring to a nest ship with many times the number of Killiks aboard as will be present in this battle.

 

My patience with your overestimation of her powers is wearing thin as well Aurbere.

 

And Sel, Aurbere called Beni and Silenceo's experience into question thereby insinuating that because he had more experience than the other two people who agree with, my position was somehow wrong or uninformed.

 

As for the final battle. I'm not sure what battle you were referring to in regards to matching power, but Luke dominated Thul when he tried to draw on the Killik nest's power, and in the final battle he lured her in, broke her leg, kept Thul at bay, and with one functioning arm kept them both pinned till he knocked out Thul and kill Plo (in quite the ****** form I might add).

 

Seriously, must we quote lines from the book to each other?

Edited June 25, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[Selenial]

And Sel, Aurbere called Beni and Silenceo's experience into question thereby insinuating that because he had more experience than the other two people who agree with, my position was somehow wrong or uninformed.

 

I don't know which you're referring to, but he probably meant that if Beni and Silenceo aren't up to date on it, you can't use safety in numbers as a means of shutting the complaints down...

But I have no idea

[Wolfninjajedi]

No! You discovered my master plan!!!

 

Btw, why did you seem surprised when someone took the Phase I Dark Troopers earlier? They seem fairly effective. Though, I need to know how to beat them, so I can then find a way to use my gungan bombad ion orbs!

 

Jokes aside... I am guessing you are not going to be making a faction?

 

Was surprised because they aren't really suited for combat, unless they could somehow get into close range. I mean I guess they could be used for tight spots where close combat is gonna happen. Buuut /shrug

 

At any rate, anyone who has to really go up against the Dark Troopers are gonna be hard pressed in destroying them thanks to their nigh-indestructible phrik armor. The Phase 1 MAY be easier to destroy considering it's really just a skeleton frame but even so.

 

Also nah...I'm just watching, besides even if I wanted to. Pretty much all the good stuff is already taken.

[Silenceo]

Was surprised because they aren't really suited for combat, unless they could somehow get into close range. I mean I guess they could be used for tight spots where close combat is gonna happen. Buuut /shrug

 

At any rate, anyone who has to really go up against the Dark Troopers are gonna be hard pressed in destroying them thanks to their nigh-indestructible phrik armor. The Phase 1 MAY be easier to destroy considering it's really just a skeleton frame but even so.

 

Also nah...I'm just watching, besides even if I wanted to. Pretty much all the good stuff is already taken.

 

Even so, wouldn't be the worst battle droids ever deployed...See B1's... Though, if I recall correctly the Phase I's had some sort of acceleration device that made them able to cross ground quickly, but I would have to track down the source.

 

As for the everything being taken, there are plenty of options still open! Such as Hapes, or the Ssi-Ri. Heck, the Chiss are almost entirely untouched and they are quite formidable. Or Perhaps you could try something like Legacy Era with Darth Krayt or some such. There are even most of the characters dealing with those factions still avalable. Though, since you don't wish to, no need to pester you.