Remove achievement points that cannot be gotten

[mbfhl]

Hey Tait, there are a number of achievements in the game that require items only made available to subscribers prior to f2p coming out. These achievements should not award any points as they cannot be gotten by 95% of the players in the game currently.

 

These achievements pertain to containment and sand people outfits for the Sharp Dresser achievement, and all of the ones related to the Party Jawa.

 

No points should be awarded for these achievements as it is unfair for later players to the game.

[lironBD]

I support this.

[JediRelentless]

Unfair?

Should there not be any achievements that acknowledge players who have been here for all the events?

Edited May 28, 2014 by JediRelentless

[mbfhl]

Achievements, yes. But the grand total scheme of achievement points is basically saying "if you weren't in this game at the start you are worthless to us".

 

Leave the achievements, but make them worth 0 points.

[Ratajack]

Hey Tait, there are a number of achievements in the game that require items only made available to subscribers prior to f2p coming out. These achievements should not award any points as they cannot be gotten by 95% of the players in the game currently.

 

These achievements pertain to containment and sand people outfits for the Sharp Dresser achievement, and all of the ones related to the Party Jawa.

 

No points should be awarded for these achievements as it is unfair for later players to the game.

 

Playing the game, or even paying a subscription, does NOT entitle anyone to everything in the game, and that includes achievements.

 

No one is entitled to be able to achieve 100% of the achievements simply because they play the game. That is why they are called achievements.

 

If a player was not here when a limited time item was available, or they CHOSE not to obtain a limited time item, then there may be a few achievements that they will NOT get, so be it. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Ratajack]

Achievements, yes. But the grand total scheme of achievement points is basically saying "if you weren't in this game at the start you are worthless to us".

 

Leave the achievements, but make them worth 0 points.

 

It means that you may not be able to get the maximum number of available achievement points, but so what?

 

If you can't possibly be number one (or tied for number one) in achievement points, you're going to take your achievements and go home?

[Volthorne]

Playing the game, or even paying a subscription, does NOT entitle anyone to everything in the game, and that includes achievements.

Right, fine. That's understandable, because you need to actually WORK to get them.

 

No one is entitled to be able to achieve 100% of the achievements simply because they play the game. That is why they are called achievements.

Again, okay, that's understandable. There's also a lot of games that have DLC-specific achievements.

 

If a player was not here when a limited time item was available, or they CHOSE not to obtain a limited time item, then there may be a few achievements that they will NOT get, so be it. There is nothing wrong with that.

.... What. No. Bad. Limited time items should NEVER be linked to any sort of "achievement": often just owning said limited items is in and of itself an achievement because you have a shiny that no one else (or very few people) has. That is why the Day One edition Xbone came in a fancy black box with a controller with a special decal and gave an achievement worth 0 (ZERO, ZILCH, ZIP, NADA, NOTHING) gamer score, because it would otherwise be unfair to everyone who didn't get a Day One-edition Xbone in the on-going contest for bragging rights of having the highest gamer score.

[Ratajack]

Right, fine. That's understandable, because you need to actually WORK to get them.

 

 

Again, okay, that's understandable. There's also a lot of games that have DLC-specific achievements.

 

 

.... What. No. Bad. Limited time items should NEVER be linked to any sort of "achievement": often just owning said limited items is in and of itself an achievement because you have a shiny that no one else (or very few people) has. That is why the Day One edition Xbone came in a fancy black box with a controller with a special decal and gave an achievement worth 0 (ZERO, ZILCH, ZIP, NADA, NOTHING) gamer score, because it would otherwise be unfair to everyone who didn't get a Day One-edition Xbone in the on-going contest for bragging rights of having the highest gamer score.

 

DING! DING! DING!

 

So someone will have a bigger e-peen than you do. Whoopty-do.

 

Part of what makes some of this games achievements special is the fact that some of them ARE tied to limited time items, or limited time content.

 

I will never have the sharp dresser achievement. I did not have a republic character of high enough level to do the rakhghoul event on that faction, so i did not get the republic containment officer set. I also chose not to get the sandpeople armor from the Chevin grand acquisitions event. Since I do not have those armors, I will never get the achievement and I am fine with that.

 

As I said, some achievements are special simply because they ARE not always available to be completed, or they require some things that may not always be available.

[Volthorne]

As I said, some achievements are special simply because they ARE not always available to be completed, or they require some things that may not always be available.

 

Then it's not a freaking achievement, it's a Limited Edition item.

 

Definition of achievement straight from google:

 

a·chieve·ment

əˈCHēvmənt/

noun

noun: achievement; plural noun: achievements

1.

a thing done successfully, typically by effort, courage, or skill.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Volthorne

[ScarletBlaze]

Achievements, yes. But the grand total scheme of achievement points is basically saying "if you weren't in this game at the start you are worthless to us".

 

Leave the achievements, but make them worth 0 points.

 

And what about the ones that do have them. You are saying that if you don't have them then you are worthless to them but the same can be said to the ones that have them if you do away with what they have gotten.

 

I don't have a lot of achievements but a friend of mine does because she worked to get them. Why should she be penalized because she has something I didn't.

Edited May 29, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[Ratajack]

Then it's not a freaking achievement, it's a Limited Edition item.

 

Definition of achievement straight from google:

 

a·chieve·ment

əˈCHēvmənt/

noun

noun: achievement; plural noun: achievements

1.

a thing done successfully, typically by effort, courage, or skill.

 

A thing done successfully?

 

That sounds like the shard dresser achievement would fit that bill PERFECTLY. You get the achievement for acquiring all the listed gear sets. If you acquire all of the listed gear sets, then you did a thing (acquire all of the listed gear sets) successfully.

 

The same goes for all of those Tattooine achievements that require a party jawa. If you do the listed things witha party jawa, then you successfully met the requirements for the achievements.

 

Even if the achievement is only to "obtain limited item A" and you do so, then you did that thing successfully. It matters not someone who started playing after limited item A was no longer available. YOU still did that thing (obtain limited item A) successfully.

[Volthorne]

A thing done successfully?

 

That sounds like the shard dresser achievement would fit that bill PERFECTLY. You get the achievement for acquiring all the listed gear sets. If you acquire all of the listed gear sets, then you did a thing (acquire all of the listed gear sets) successfully.

 

The same goes for all of those Tattooine achievements that require a party jawa. If you do the listed things witha party jawa, then you successfully met the requirements for the achievements.

 

Even if the achievement is only to "obtain limited item A" and you do so, then you did that thing successfully. It matters not someone who started playing after limited item A was no longer available. YOU still did that thing (obtain limited item A) successfully.

You're still missing my point, which was that those limited-run/-edition/-time items ARE the reward/achievement. You get a shiny no one else can get anymore. Making them part of a completely separate reward/achievement after the fact is like saying "hey, you remember that floor you laid down a while ago that you already got paid in full for? Well, you're getting paid again for that floor while you do this one". I'm sure I don't have to point out exactly how stupid that would be if it worked like that in real life, so why are you even trying to argue that it's not arbitrary bullcrap when applied to a video game? Because it is most definitely arbitrary bullcrap and bad design to boot.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Volthorne

[Ratajack]

You're still missing my point, which was that those limited-run/-edition/-time items ARE the reward/achievement. You get a shiny no one else can get anymore. Making them part of a completely separate reward/achievement after the fact is like saying "hey, you remember that floor you laid down a while ago that you already got paid in full for? Well, you're getting paid again for that floor while you do this one". I'm sure I don't have to point out exactly how stupid that would be if it worked like that in real life, so why are you even trying to argue that it's not arbitrary bullcrap when applied to a video game? Because it is most definitely arbitrary bullcrap and bad design to boot.

 

Actually, it is more like you and I both have flooring companies. I've been in business for 10 years, and you only started your business 6 months ago. I have a large inventory that I've amassed over the 10 years I've been in business, including many varieties of tile that are no longer made.

 

Mrs Johnson wants a new floor. She has a neighbor for whom I did a floor 2 years ago and really likes the tiles her neighbor chose. Those tiles are no longer manufactured, but I have them in my inventory. I get OPPORTUNITY to re-tile Mrs. Johnson's floor because I have the tiles she wants, even though they are no longer manufactured.

 

I am not getting paid a second time for doing Mrs. Johnson's neighbor's floor. I am getting the OPPORTUNITY to do a second job because I have what is required by the customer.

 

The same goes for achievements. A player with a limited time item is not getting credit for the same achievement twice. They are getting the OPPORTUNITY to complete a DIFFERENT achievement because they have what is required for that achievement.

[mbfhl]

Bump. Tait, whatcha think?

[Kalfear]

Hey Tait, there are a number of achievements in the game that require items only made available to subscribers prior to f2p coming out. These achievements should not award any points as they cannot be gotten by 95% of the players in the game currently.

 

These achievements pertain to containment and sand people outfits for the Sharp Dresser achievement, and all of the ones related to the Party Jawa.

 

No points should be awarded for these achievements as it is unfair for later players to the game.

 

unfair?

 

So punish loyal long time players is your solution because they dared to play at start and pay subs for long time?

 

EXTRA POINTS should be awarded to long time player

 

There was an easy solution for your issue OP

 

Play sooner.

Problem solved!

[mbfhl]

Extra points? Why does someone who played the game before get preference over someone who was only able to start in 2013? You're basically saying that anyone who didn't play from the beginning is worthless.

[Warrgames]

Extra points? Why does someone who played the game before get preference over someone who was only able to start in 2013? You're basically saying that anyone who didn't play from the beginning is worthless.

 

You are saying that those player that have been a long time supporter of the game are worthless.

 

Here is the really question: *** difference does it make? You don't gain anything for the amount of achievement points. It is a trivial number that has no meaning. What difference does it does it make? Have you complete EVER achievement in the game but those?

 

 

mbfhl please go play ESO. They gave early access people an entire race that no one else will be able to get.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Warrgames

[LeJarC]

Don't you understand? it's not about the achievement it's about the fact they didn't get the party jawa.

 

It's just another one of those "I want one too but can't have it coz I wasn't around when it was available" rants

 

just you wait, soon they will be demanding free character slots because they can't get the achievements connected to having a toon of each class or maxed kill count with the companions of those classes

 

Or retroactive adding of achievements for events taken place before they started playing

Edited June 1, 2014 by LeJarC

[Kalfear]

Extra points? Why does someone who played the game before get preference over someone who was only able to start in 2013? You're basically saying that anyone who didn't play from the beginning is worthless.

 

No that would be YOUR argument.

 

What Im saying is long term players will get rewards that REWARD their long term loyalty

 

YOU are the one demanding they have things taken away from them and their loyalty be trivialized and ignored.

 

I'm not saying for EA to take anything away from new subs.

All I say is a they dont receive rewards given out for when they were not subscribers.

 

I really dont get kids like you M.

I walked away from this game for roughly 14 months and there were rewards handed out while I was gone.

It didnt even remotely occur to me that I should get rewards from when I was away.

OF COURSE I SHOULDNT

I wasn't a subscriber for that period

 

You WERE NOT a subscriber during the early days when the party Jawa was handed out.

Lifes rough, move on.

Go yell at your parents for not subing you soon enough if it matters to you that much.

 

The party Jawa was a fluff reward for loyalty

the achievement associated to the party jawa (or in your case lack of achievement) has NO AFFECT on your gaming experience in SWTOR.

 

Once again this thread is just more

 

I WANT EVERYTHING GIVEN TO ME FOR FREE

HOW DARE "any company" single out other players not named ME.

 

Get over yourself.

If the game truly was that important to you

You would have followed game and sub'd from the get go

Which would make this entire thread disappear.

[ScarletBlaze]

You're basically saying that anyone who didn't play from the beginning is worthless.

 

You are saying the same thing to the ones that have been playing at launch.

 

Now:

 

What has been done in some games I played (SWG) is that there was veteran's rewards and when a person reach a certain number of days they were able to chose from two or three rewards. Everyone was able to do this but of course the ones that just started it would take more time to do so.

 

But if they did this then there would be no reason for threads like this fussing and complaining over the people that been here prior to or at launch.

Edited June 1, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[Ratajack]

You are saying the same thing to the ones that have been playing at launch.

 

Now:

 

What has been done in some games I played (SWG) is that there was veteran's rewards and when a person reach a certain number of days they were able to chose from two or three rewards. Everyone was able to do this but of course the ones that just started it would take more time to do so.

 

But if they did this then there would be no reason for threads like this fussing and complaining over the people that been here prior to or at launch.

 

Veteran rewards are fine, but I do not want to see anything that is no longer obtainable tied to any veteran rewards. I think any item that was available for a time and is no longer available should remain in the "no longer available" category. There is no need to cater to those who have not been here since launch, or who were not playing, or paying, when a given item was available.

 

Playing a game, or even paying a subscription, does NOT entitle a player to everything that was ever in the game, or even "a chance" to have everything that was ever in the game. Some things are no longer available, and there is nothing wrong with this. Should someone who starts playing tomorrow have the chance to obtain the season one PVP rancor?

[LeJarC]

I regularly see references to long term subscribers, or players who where here from the start.

 

That is a totally wrong assumption. Sure, anyone here from the start will have gotten all of the "thank you gifts" but the gifts themselves have nothing to do with how long folks have been subscribing

 

Just a point to emphasize, SWTOR has so far not given out any gifts for a subscription length. (not counting Cartel Coins) All of the "thank you"gifts given out were given to people who where subscriber at a given date. no matter if they started their subscription on the day of the requirement date or 3 years before that. Even if they only would have subscribed for the months in which gifts were given out, then they would still have gotten them all and only have been subscribers for a total of 5 or 6 months (give or take a month)

Edited June 1, 2014 by LeJarC

[Ratajack]

I regularly see references to long term subscribers, or players who where here from the start.

 

That is a totally wrong assumption. Sure, anyone here from the start will have gotten all of the "thank you gifts" but the gifts themselves have nothing to do with how long folks have been subscribing

 

Just a point to emphasize, SWTOR has so far not given out any gifts for a subscription length. (not counting Cartel Coins) All of the "thank you"gifts given out were given to people who where subscriber at a given date. no matter if they started their subscription on the day of the requirement date or 3 years before that. Even if they only would have subscribed for the months in which gifts were given out, then they would still have gotten them all and only have been subscribers for a total of 5 or 6 months (give or take a month)

 

Whether you talk about length of subscription, or just being subscribed at certain times, the end result is the same. Some people have items that are no longer available in the game, whether they were a limited time times item, a one time reward for being subscribed on a given date or simply just no longer available.

 

There is nothing wrong with some items that were once available no longer being available. There is nothing wrong with requiring some of those items as a requirement for certain achievements.

[LeJarC]

no need to convince me, I fully agree. I've accepted the fact I can't and never will be able to get all achievements, whether or not they were only reachable during a specific period doesn't matter since even if I have all of the items I still will not be able to reach others for different reasons. So be it, No skin of my nose.

 

If folks start on that route, then there's always something to be found to complain about not being able to get Achievement X for reason Y they don't call them achievements for nothing