PvP'ers get the shaft when it come to money making options!

[Reno_Tarshil]

So being that It has been shown that implementing big money opportunities near equal to that of what he pve side has already in place would not have a negative, but instead a positive effect on things.... what other rebuttles might you think of that can be brought to the table... or what other benefits do you see coming from pvp'ers having the options to make more money. ??

 

You're joking right?

 

There's been like 1 maybe 2 people who think this is a good idea versus everyone else who says this is a bad idea...

 

Please just stop.

[Tsillah]

People always believe what they want to believe. When their beliefs are not met with reality, they get upset. This thread can go on for hundreds of pages with the same things being repeated.

 

But no, not every activity gives the same amount of reward, even within pve some things give more rewards than others. This is in part because different activities have different purposes. If you make them all the same the game gets boring.

 

To answer the OP. Yes, people who limit themselves to the point where they don't pve get the shaft. The difference is that the limitation is your own, not BW's.

[Andryah]

Yes OP, PvP'ers are highly shafted when it comes to rewards. If we don't craft/PvE/GTN PvP, we get shafted but EAware does not care but because of that they lost a lot of Star Wars PvP oriented players. I along with many other PvP'ers posted ideas to greatly increase PvP rewards but as always it was ignored by the devs.

 

Your misplaced sense of importance here is telling. If we take your comments at face value as sincere and honest.. then you are clearly playing the wrong MMO. Which is fine. Not all MMOs are for all people, including this one. That said.. this MMO is doing just fine in the competitive market.... running at #3 in terms of active player base in the western market place. It does not need to be number one in the market, nor does it have to cater to PvP players at the expense of other play preferences and styles.

 

You don't own the game, nor the IP for the game. You pay to play it.. as it is presented to you.. if you choose to (which clearly you do choose to play it). Learn some boundaries IMO.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Andryah

[Malckiah]

People always believe what they want to believe. When their beliefs are not met with reality, they get upset. This thread can go on for hundreds of pages with the same things being repeated.

 

But no, not every activity gives the same amount of reward, even within pve some things give more rewards than others. This is in part because different activities have different purposes. If you make them all the same the game gets boring.

 

To answer the OP. Yes, people who limit themselves to the point where they don't pve get the shaft. The difference is that the limitation is your own, not BW's.

 

I agree, but this was never about limiting only to pvp, but that while someone is pvp'ing they are not getting gimped in the pocketbook for choosing to do so.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I agree, but this was never about limiting only to pvp, but that while someone is pvp'ing they are not getting gimped in the pocketbook for choosing to do so.

 

Here we go again....

[Andryah]

I agree, but this was never about limiting only to pvp, but that while someone is pvp'ing they are not getting gimped in the pocketbook for choosing to do so.

 

1) it's clear where the credits are to be had in game. Anyone wanting credits... chases them where they are to be found.

2) every player has the right to play whatever content they want, but in doing so.. they work within the constraints of said play. If you preferred play style =/= low hanging credits... that's fine..... you know where the credits are and can go after them if you want credits... like everyone else who plays the game.

3) PvE is NOT the path to easy wealth. Nor is it in any way comparable to PvP.

 

PvP =/= credits

PvE =/= credits

credits = credits.

 

Your entire rant of a thread is premised on entitlement. But, you are not any more or less entitled then any other player. You want to PvP, fine. You want to PvE, fine. You want to earn massive credits, fine. Play for what you seek.. but to expect any of these to overlap is misplaced vision on your part.

 

And in closing.. as as been pointed out to you numerous times..... PvE generally (in all MMOs) gives out credit rewards that are tuned to offset the fixed costs of doing said content (such as repair bills). PvP has lower fixed operating costs then PvE... as is often true in MMOs. For the "eye candy" outfits and other items that you crave.... follow the credits if the "eye candy" is important to you (it's not to many PvPers... in fact many would love a zero-gear PvP MMO so they can focus on what they want most.. PvP).

 

Tell you what...... you buy out EA and you can dictate how the game is to be developed and maintained over time. Until then.. you are a paying participant and your payment for playing =/= entitle you to dictate how the game works. I know you wish it did, but it does not.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Andryah

[Malckiah]

I will answer in green inside your quote.....

 

1) it's clear where the credits are to be had in game. Anyone wanting credits... chases them where they are to be found. (exactly!... and we know that pvp needs more people to participate, being that queue pops are an issue. Since as you say " people chase where crdits can be found" ... then it would help on of the existing issues in pvp by giving them a chance to chase them there ALSO.)

 

2) every player has the right to play whatever content they want, but in doing so.. they work within the constraints of said play. If you preferred play style =/= low hanging credits... that's fine..... you know where the credits are and can go after them if you want credits... like everyone else who plays the game. (agreed, and people should participate in all facets of the game...they are very fun. But at the same time, if you have to leave one area of the game because you need to "go make money" then it is no longer choice and fun, but choice through force. If they can easily up the amount of money in pvp causing no harm elsewhere in the game.....why not. Then you can have fun in the GAME and make money too.)

3) PvE is NOT the path to easy wealth. (Not all PvE players are rich, but the opportunity to make big money is there. Same with what I am asking for here in this thread.... it won't make all pvp'ers rich, but it will give them opportunity to make big money if they work at it in a way that is equal to the pve side opportunity.) Nor is it in any way comparable to PvP.

 

PvP =/= credits

PvE =/= credits

credits = credits.

 

Your entire rant of a thread is premised on entitlement. (No, I did not make the thread because I feel entitled, I made the thread as a request to bioware to hopefully add more money making opportunities to pvp.) But, you are not any more or less entitled then any other player. (agreed, I am not as primarily a pvp'er more or LESS entitled than any other player.) You want to PvP, fine. You want to PvE, fine. You want to earn massive credits, fine. Play for what you seek.. but to expect any of these to overlap is misplaced vision on your part. (It may never happen and I will still play the game either way. But as anyone who posts desires on this forum I hope they will consider mine.)

 

And in closing.. as as been pointed out to you numerous times..... PvE generally (in all MMOs) gives out credit rewards that are tuned to offset the fixed costs of doing said content (such as repair bills). PvP has lower fixed operating costs then PvE... as is often true in MMOs. (This has already been addressed previously in this thread.) For the "eye candy" outfits and other items that you crave.... follow the credits if the "eye candy" is important to you (it's not to many PvPers... in fact many would love a zero-gear PvP MMO so they can focus on what they want most.. PvP). (I disagree, espescially considering that pvp'ers aslo received a recoloring of old obroan gear. Fact is most pvp'ers wear adaptable gear.)

 

Tell you what...... you buy out EA and you can dictate how the game is to be developed and maintained over time. Until then.. you are a paying participant and your payment for playing =/= entitle you to dictate how the game works. I know you wish it did, but it does not.

(but I am entitled to post on the forums in hopes of being heard.)

[horrorfaneightys]

Ok, well I was working under the assumption that you were not aware of the events.

 

No problems. I just felt I needed to apologise as one of my statements in this thread was incorrect.

 

To the topic. Basically to enjoy this game to its full potential, you have to be willing to try every part of it. If you, as a player, choose not to partake in some aspect of it for various reasons, you have to accept that you don't get all the rewards either. I don't do war zones, so accepted I wouldn't get that unique rancour. I can't dedicate the time to OPs, so accepted I won't get any of those mounts. I don't grind dailies at the moment because I don't really find them fun, so I don't get the credits from that. I accept that I miss out on certain rewards by not doing certain content.

 

Could they increase the monetary rewards from PVP slightly? Perhaps, but PVPers get the payoff of doing something they enjoy without having repair bills. Isn't the fun of PVP, and unique gear etc the reward?

[Malckiah]

No problems. I just felt I needed to apologise as one of my statements in this thread was incorrect.

 

To the topic. Basically to enjoy this game to its full potential, you have to be willing to try every part of it. If you, as a player, choose not to partake in some aspect of it for various reasons, you have to accept that you don't get all the rewards either. I don't do war zones, so accepted I wouldn't get that unique rancour. I can't dedicate the time to OPs, so accepted I won't get any of those mounts. I don't grind dailies at the moment because I don't really find them fun, so I don't get the credits from that. I accept that I miss out on certain rewards by not doing certain content.

 

Could they increase the monetary rewards from PVP slightly? Perhaps, but PVPers get the payoff of doing something they enjoy without having repair bills. Isn't the fun of PVP, and unique gear etc the reward?

 

Not trying to be rude or mean here, but these were already addressed earlier in the thread.

1. I am not saying people should only pvp or even that I would only pvp, then that would gimp me as far as seeing great content. I am saying that when I am pvping I shouldn't be gimped monetarily for choosing to do so. Credits are equally needed or should I say wanted by everyone nomatter what they prefer to play. Credits are you could say are (neutral). As I said let the pvp'er make near equal to what the pve'ers can make (minus repair costs).

2. I like to primarily pvp, but I do not have a rancor mount...just because someone participates in content doesn't assure they are getting that special stuff. (and that's how it should be....those things should be hard to get so they stay rare)

Isn't the fun of PVE, and unique gear etc the reward? (see what I did there?)

Edited May 18, 2014 by Malckiah

[horrorfaneightys]

Not trying to be rude or mean here, but these were already addressed earlier in the thread.

1. I am not saying people should only pvp or even that I would only pvp, then that would gimp me as far as seeing great content. I am saying that when I am pvping I shouldn't be gimped monetarily for choosing to do so. Credits are equally needed or should I say wanted by everyone nomatter what they prefer to play. Credits are you could say are (neutral). As I said let the pvp'er make near equal to what the pve'ers can make (minus repair costs).

2. I like to primarily pvp, but I do not have a rancor mount...just because someone participates in content doesn't assure they are getting that special stuff. (and that's how it should be....those things should be hard to get so they stay rare)

Isn't the fun of PVE, and unique gear etc the reward? (see what I did there?)

 

Except it's your choice not to want to do the content that gives most money. Basically you're asking for rewards without doing stuff, because you don't like it. If you want the rewards, do the content. If you don't do the content, you don't get the rewards. Just like everybody else.

 

Also - yes, the reward for me is the fun of PVE.

[Malckiah]

Except it's your choice not to want to do the content that gives most money. Basically you're asking for rewards without doing stuff, because you don't like it. If you want the rewards, do the content. If you don't do the content, you don't get the rewards. Just like everybody else.

 

Also - yes, the reward for me is the fun of PVE.

 

Really? Come on now.... I have said I will and do like to participate in all facets of the game. Saying things like this will get us back where we don't want to be. I love the game... I participate in every aspect of it, but when I pvp I shouldn't get gimped in my pocketbook and penalized for doing it.

 

You say "Also - yes, the reward for me is the fun of PVE."... so then how about they cut the money making options in pve to match that of pvp then. ??

Edited May 18, 2014 by Malckiah

[Reno_Tarshil]

I concur. The devs should cut the reward opportunities given by PvE to match PvP. That's only fair. Maybe I should start a thread about that.

 

Good luck...

[Wylf]

I find it highly unfair, that I, as a Roleplayer, am forced to participate in PvE or PvP to gain rewards. Bioware should totally give me credits AND experience for good roleplay. I'm a subscriber, after all. Edited May 18, 2014 by Wylf

[Sangrar]

I find it highly unfair, that I, as a Roleplayer, am forced to participate in PvE or PvP to gain rewards. Bioware should totally give me credits AND experience for good roleplay. I'm a subscriber, after all.

 

winner.

[Malckiah]

I find it highly unfair, that I, as a Roleplayer, am forced to participate in PvE or PvP to gain rewards. Bioware should totally give me credits AND experience for good roleplay. I'm a subscriber, after all.

 

Well I have seen plenty of people in gen chat offer big credits if you would simply perform certain "roleplaying" acts for them.... go for it!

 

Infact DarthMaulUK said it best:

I only PvP and been here since launch and my main toon is loaded. Hell, I even give money away to new players to help start them out, I give money to my guild (over 10 million) - the list goes on.

 

How do I make so much? Selling on the GTN. I am sitting on a gold mine in an untapped market. You're going to have to by my book - 'I wanna be a Ho' today to find out out.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Malckiah

[Fractal_Eye]

As some have already mentioned, I think it really comes down to Risk vs. Reward.

 

There is NO Risk in PvP. You enter a match, and there is no possible way that you will lose credits. Even if you die repeatedly, and lose the match, you still receive some (albeit, paltry) rewards.*

 

Now, in PvE, there IS Risk of losing credits. Just sticking to PvE Dailies (not counting Operations), no matter how easy they may be to some players, you do have a risk of not completing the mission and it costing you credits.

 

(Just as an example, I did one of the Oricon dailies on my Merc earlier today. It was the first time I had done the Oricon dailies with a non-tank (my preferred play-style), and I didn't realize how hard the Enraged Subteroth (I think that's it's name; the one that surges and turns Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man size) hits. Needless to say, before I realized it wouldn't be another faceroll, I had died. Now, granted, this is a very rare occurrence for me doing PvE Dailies, but it did happen. I got her the second time, but I ended up paying about 4k credits in repairs for that particular one, d'oh!)

 

So, while it's pretty insignificant to me (but, again, others have varying difficulty with games, so I may not be the norm by any means!), there is Risk when I PvE. Hence, the rewards are greater than PvP.

 

The only reasonable way I see BW increasing the payouts (on a constant basis, not counting the 'event' they have planned for 2.8) for PvP would be if they increased the Risk as well. Heck, call it a tithe or tribute (if you lose) that is paid out to the winning team if you'd like. Just something other than making PvP into a bigger No-Risk/Free-Reward system than it already is.

 

* (Yes, yes, medpacks, stims, adrenals cost money. However, they are not needed to complete the PvP missions, just as they are not needed to do the PvE missions. I will concede that they make it easier, but it's a personal choice to use them or not. I use them, but I certainly don't feel the need to do so.)

 

TL;DR - No risk of losing any credits in PvP, hence the paltry rewards. Yes, I think maybe the PvP rewards could be raised if it's done right. Should they be raised without implementing any risk? By the Maker, NO.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Fractal_Eye

[Malckiah]

As some have already mentioned, I think it really comes down to Risk vs. Reward.

 

There is NO Risk in PvP. You enter a match, and there is no possible way that you will lose credits. Even if you die repeatedly, and lose the match, you still receive some (albeit, paltry) rewards.*

 

Now, in PvE, there IS Risk of losing credits. Just sticking to PvE Dailies (not counting Operations), no matter how easy they may be to some players, you do have a risk of not completing the mission and it costing you credits.

 

(Just as an example, I did one of the Oricon dailies on my Merc earlier today. It was the first time I had done the Oricon dailies with a non-tank (my preferred play-style), and I didn't realize how hard the Enraged Subteroth (I think that's it's name; the one that surges and turns Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man size) hits. Needless to say, before I realized it wouldn't be another faceroll, I had died. Now, granted, this is a very rare occurrence for me doing PvE Dailies, but it did happen. I got her the second time, but I ended up paying about 4k credits in repairs for that particular one, d'oh!)

 

So, while it's pretty insignificant to me (but, again, others have varying difficulty with games, so I may not be the norm by any means!), there is Risk when I PvE. Hence, the rewards are greater than PvP.

 

The only reasonable way I see BW increasing the payouts (on a constant basis, not counting the 'event' they have planned for 2.8) for PvP would be if they increased the Risk as well. Heck, call it a tithe or tribute (if you lose) that is paid out to the winning team if you'd like. Just something other than making PvP into a bigger No-Risk/Free-Reward system than it already is.

 

* (Yes, yes, medpacks, stims, adrenals cost money. However, they are not needed to complete the PvP missions, just as they are not needed to do the PvE missions. I will concede that they make it easier, but it's a personal choice to use them or not. I use them, but I certainly don't feel the need to do so.)

 

TL;DR - No risk or losing any credits in PvP, hence the paltry rewards. Yes, I think maybe the PvP rewards could be raised if it's done right. Should they be raised without implementing any risk? By the Maker, NO.

 

You don't pvp do you. I went into a ranked match last night and my team lost... I received NO credits...NONE!

[robertthebard]

So being that It has been shown that implementing big money opportunities near equal to that of what he pve side has already in place would not have a negative, but instead a positive effect on things.... what other rebuttles might you think of that can be brought to the table... or what other benefits do you see coming from pvp'ers having the options to make more money. ??

 

Where has that been shown? Where did everyone suddenly agree that allowing PvP players to start making millions a week in PvP alone was a good idea at lvl 10? I've seen one claim to that effect, two if I count this post, both by people that really want it to happen, and really want it to happen w/out overhead. Nice try though, to try to make sure that people with legitimate beefs in your thread are shut down due to 2 or 3 pages of OT ranting.

[Malckiah]

Where has that been shown? Where did everyone suddenly agree that allowing PvP players to start making millions a week in PvP alone was a good idea at lvl 10? I've seen one claim to that effect, two if I count this post, both by people that really want it to happen, and really want it to happen w/out overhead. Nice try though, to try to make sure that people with legitimate beefs in your thread are shut down due to 2 or 3 pages of OT ranting.

 

Nevermind post #353 that addresses a similar post as yours already.

 

....and NO ONE has even suggested that at level 10 it would be expected to make that kind of money.... nice try though.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Malckiah

[robertthebard]

You don't pvp do you. I went into a ranked match last night and my team lost... I received NO credits...NONE!

 

From my perspective, that's how it should be, contrary to your post that we're all in agreement that increasing the income from PvP has no ill side effects.

[Fractal_Eye]

You don't pvp do you. I went into a ranked match last night and my team lost... I received NO credits...NONE!

 

In this game? No, I don't PvP (might have played a total of 3 warzones in TOR since launch?). I started off MMOs in a game that had actually risk to the PvP, called Eve Online. Played it for about 2.5 years, and while I absolutely loved it, I kind of got PvPed out to be honest, lol.

 

When I saw that PvP in TOR is more safe (in terms of automatic rewards) than the PvE, I kind of decided not to take part in it. Then again, all that time in 0.0 space might have something to do with it, too.

 

While your team may have lost the match, did it not at least reward comms? Or count towards the amount needed to complete the PvP daily mission? If so, you've already done better than someone who doesn't complete a PvE daily.

 

Listen, I get it. I can agree that the payout for PvP is paltry in TOR. However, given that there is NO Risk to it, how can you honestly justify the necessity for bigger Rewards?

 

Again, I think that they should up the rewards for PvP, but only if they do it right. Simply increasing the payouts because people demand it will most likely cause more problems than it will fix, as others have already demonstrated in this thread.

 

(Other words, while I don't PvP, I can understand the viewpoint of someone who does (or even only exclusively). I just don't think dropping more credits into the free button is a good idea.)

[Malckiah]

In this game? No, I don't PvP (might have played a total of 3 warzones in TOR since launch?). I started off MMOs in a game that had actually risk to the PvP, called Eve Online. Played it for about 2.5 years, and while I absolutely loved it, I kind of got PvPed out to be honest, lol.

 

When I saw that PvP in TOR is more safe (in terms of automatic rewards) than the PvE, I kind of decided not to take part in it. Then again, all that time in 0.0 space might have something to do with it, too.

 

While your team may have lost the match, did it not at least reward comms? Or count towards the amount needed to complete the PvP daily mission? If so, you've already done better than someone who doesn't complete a PvE daily.

 

Listen, I get it. I can agree that the payout for PvP is paltry in TOR. However, given that there is NO Risk to it, how can you honestly justify the necessity for bigger Rewards?

 

Again, I think that they should up the rewards for PvP, but only if they do it right. Simply increasing the payouts because people demand it will most likely cause more problems than it will fix, as others have already demonstrated in this thread.

 

(Other words, while I don't PvP, I can understand the viewpoint of someone who does (or even only exclusively). I just don't think dropping more credits into the free button is a good idea.)

 

Ranked pvp dailies only reward wins. I received 30 comms which is near nothing.... not even enough to buy a credit box worth 1500 credits max.

 

and you said "Simply increasing the payouts because people demand it will most likely cause more problems than it will fix, as others have already demonstrated in this thread."....show me!

 

And I have never asked for the option to pvp and no matter how well I do I make big money..... I specifically asked for pvp'ers to have "the opportunity" through pvp to make big money equal to that of the pve'er (minus repair costs.) Opportunity does not mean all pvp'ers will make millions, but it does mean it would be equally possible.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Malckiah

[robertthebard]

Nevermind post #353 that addresses a similar post as yours already.

 

....and NO ONE has even suggested that at level 10 it would be expect to make that kind of money.... nice try though.

 

Lvl 10 is where the PvP dailies start. As soon as you can queue for PvP you are eligible for dailies/weeklies. Taking this into account, if they implement your system, you should be paying repair costs, since the only dailies/weeklies a PvEer can pick up are FPs, that have repair costs associated with them. This will constitute treating everyone fairly. If you're against that, then I guess you're really just begging for handouts, right? I mean, it's your trick, so it must be fair for me to use it too? So, in the spirit of the thread, if you don't agree with me, you're looking for preferential treatment, not to be treated fairly. You can look that up later.

 

Um, no. You and your friend do not constitute rebuttal of the flaws with your system. Shouting louder doesn't equal a victory. However, this is, I suppose, what I should have expected when I set out to seriously discuss this with you, considering how your other two threads went, I should have known that you're not looking for discussion, you're looking for affirmation. I'll note that none of the posts following the posts you chose to cherry pick for #353 made the cut. Why? Because they refuted what was said, and therefore must be ignored to gain your affirmation. Thanks for reminder of why you don't try to have serious dialog about things PvP with a PvPer; if they can't refute what you have to say, they just pretend you never said it, and move on.

[Malckiah]

Lvl 10 is where the PvP dailies start. As soon as you can queue for PvP you are eligible for dailies/weeklies. Taking this into account, if they implement your system, you should be paying repair costs, since the only dailies/weeklies a PvEer can pick up are FPs, that have repair costs associated with them. This will constitute treating everyone fairly. If you're against that, then I guess you're really just begging for handouts, right? I mean, it's your trick, so it must be fair for me to use it too? So, in the spirit of the thread, if you don't agree with me, you're looking for preferential treatment, not to be treated fairly. You can look that up later.

 

Um, no. You and your friend do not constitute rebuttal of the flaws with your system. Shouting louder doesn't equal a victory. However, this is, I suppose, what I should have expected when I set out to seriously discuss this with you, considering how your other two threads went, I should have known that you're not looking for discussion, you're looking for affirmation. I'll note that none of the posts following the posts you chose to cherry pick for #353 made the cut. Why? Because they refuted what was said, and therefore must be ignored to gain your affirmation. Thanks for reminder of why you don't try to have serious dialog about things PvP with a PvPer; if they can't refute what you have to say, they just pretend you never said it, and move on.

 

...and?... you can quest at level 10, but the amount of credits you get are progressively less....same concept here.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Malckiah

[robertthebard]

...and... you can quest at level 10, but the amount of credits you get are progressively less....same concept here.

 

So can you, you're not locked out of it by anything other than choice, therefore, the system should totally remain the same.