PvP'ers get the shaft when it come to money making options!

[ivanhedgehog]

Adding repair costs to PVP zones would have very negative repercussions. As a player that does not like to PVP I frequently get thrashed in PVP and when going against a PVP guild 4 man pre-made it is truly ugly. How many casual players would continue to PVP if they had to pay repairs on 30 deaths after a match against a pre-made and the other team has 1-2 or even zero deaths? The same would be true for getting no rewards for a losing and big rewards for winning.

 

This would be the end of PVP due to only the most dedicated PVP players continuing to play. The idea should be to encourage be to try different activities in the game. Trying to make false comparisons to winning in PVP and "winning" in PVE does not forward this.

 

the reason they dont pay out more for pvp is that they have no repair costs. so if they add more money, they need to have the cost associated with that. why do ops have high repair costs? no actual reason for it other than a money sink.

[RandomXChance]

the reason they dont pay out more for pvp is that they have no repair costs. so if they add more money, they need to have the cost associated with that. why do ops have high repair costs? no actual reason for it other than a money sink.

 

False comparison. The comparison is to planetary dailies. Those have no more cost of doing than PVP warzones unless you are compete fail and die repeatedly. I have yet to see an explanation of what this "overhead" is for dailies besides the time sink.

 

Ops are a different story altogether. If it is a guild run, the mats usually go to the guild. If it is a PUG, you spend hours putting together the group and trying to complete the op with an OK credit payout and a chance at mats. Frequently the credits you gain from the Weeklies are consumed by repair costs and the mats are your only chance at a profit. TfB is the only operation where a credit benefit is the norm, and even at that you are looking at 100-150K for a 1-2 hour run you can only do twice a week (NiM does not really count) per toon.

[robertthebard]

I think you may have missed my previous post where I recognized the issue of not adding to credit inflation:

 

 

The bottom line is that the planetary dailies are probably the number one way that credits are injected into the economy. Bioware has several times nerfed activities that generated a better time/credit ratio that the dailies. This would indicate that they form a "baseline" that the devs have found acceptable in terms of credit infusion.

 

Yep, so why remove the baseline by enabling unlimited earning potential in PvP, an activity that you can start at level 10, as opposed to level 50, with no consequences for failure. At level 10, with bolster in PvP, you are baseline competitive, and since PvP pays win or lose, and has no overhead, there are no sinks. Comparing PvP dailies that unlock at lvl 10 to PvE dailies that don't open until level 50 are not apples to apples.

 

As my suggestion above, increase the credit payout for PVP with perhaps more tiers of dailies to pay out more credits. I believe having some type of mats obtainable would have the possibility of too much disruption on the economy.

 

See above comments. Since there are 40 levels of PvP dailies before the money making PvE dailies are even available, you are not doing anything for the game, or the economy this way. You are simply rewarding PvPers for PvPing with no overhead. It's not a viable solution to the perceived problem.

 

Uhmmmm...BTW....what overhead is incurred by doing something like Section X? Are you dying a lot and having repair bills? Using lots of adrenals? Most dedicated PVP people use lots of medpacks and adrenals and there are no reusable PVP versions of those.

 

All of my characters have minimal repair bills after dailies. Nope, it's not a lot, but it's there. In fact, it's there for all the PvE I do from lvl 1 up to cap, whatever it may be, no matter what PvE activity I pursue. However, for PvP, there is no overhead whatsoever. Cosmetics aside, there are no costs for maintaining gear, only for mod swapping, and then, not until what, 55? So it's free credits from 10 to 55, but you don't see a need for overhead, at all?

 

By the way, I HATE PVP and would rather do just about any other activity in this game. My like of an activity does not prevent me from seeing the slight imbalance here and perhaps the benefit of encouraging more to participate in PVP.

 

I don't hate PvP at all. The only places I PvP however are Oricon, Ilum during the Gree event and other similar locations. Why? I'm not PvPing for money, I'm PvPing for the sake of PvP. Does this mean that I'm more of a PvPer than somebody that's concerned about how much money they can make/aren't making while doing it? After all, isn't the point of PvP supposed to be the challenge of fighting other players?

[ivanhedgehog]

False comparison. The comparison is to planetary dailies. Those have no more cost of doing than PVP warzones unless you are compete fail and die repeatedly. I have yet to see an explanation of what this "overhead" is for dailies besides the time sink.

 

Ops are a different story altogether. If it is a guild run, the mats usually go to the guild. If it is a PUG, you spend hours putting together the group and trying to complete the op with an OK credit payout and a chance at mats. Frequently the credits you gain from the Weeklies are consumed by repair costs and the mats are your only chance at a profit. TfB is the only operation where a credit benefit is the norm, and even at that you are looking at 100-150K for a 1-2 hour run you can only do twice a week (NiM does not really count) per toon.

Any time you do pve, incoming damage causes your armor to deteriorate, causing repairs. the biggest part of this comes from death, but even the incidental damage/heal cycle causes repairs. so yes, you do have rapairs from dailies. the devs dont actually tie the credit sink to the activity though. so a repair cost for pvp would not be out of line. dont die so much and you wont have to pay. its one way of making pvpers actually act as a team instead of a mob.

[RandomXChance]

My bad for not being specific then. Since we were comparing Planetary Dailies and PVP, I was assuming we were all talking about the level 55 PVP rewards. If you look at my suggestion, it would perhaps be tiered dailies that would give the extra cash, not increasing the payout from each match.

 

The chump change in repairs that amounts to hundred of credits? May as well bring up the 72 credits it costs to fly your ship between destinations. That is more than recovered by the gray trash and green items you pick up while doing dailies and do not get in PVP.

[Malckiah]

Any time you do pve, incoming damage causes your armor to deteriorate, causing repairs. the biggest part of this comes from death, but even the incidental damage/heal cycle causes repairs. so yes, you do have rapairs from dailies. the devs dont actually tie the credit sink to the activity though. so a repair cost for pvp would not be out of line. dont die so much and you wont have to pay. its one way of making pvpers actually act as a team instead of a mob.

 

Adding repair costs to pvp is just not a good idea nor is it a solution to the problem outlined in this thread. A simpler solution that I have already mentioned would be to give pvp the chance to make around what you can make in pve minus the repair costs. So repair costs are not even a factor.

 

So if (random numbers here to make a point) pve'ers can make 1 m a day, but repair cost was 100k, then give the pvp'ers the opportunity to make about 900k a day.

 

Problem solved.

[robertthebard]

My bad for not being specific then. Since we were comparing Planetary Dailies and PVP, I was assuming we were all talking about the level 55 PVP rewards. If you look at my suggestion, it would perhaps be tiered dailies that would give the extra cash, not increasing the payout from each match.

 

The chump change in repairs that amounts to hundred of credits? May as well bring up the 72 credits it costs to fly your ship between destinations. That is more than recovered by the gray trash and green items you pick up while doing dailies and do not get in PVP.

 

Except all those PvP dailies start opening up as soon as you can PvP, which is what, lvl 10? So between 10 and 50 you're opening up a big can of worms as far as income goes, since we're talking about PvP dailies. I realize you don't see a problem with the game ending up like http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt201/robertthebard/th_Borkedeconomy.jpg, but I do. Especially if you want to get and keep new players, some of whom might want to PvP.

[RandomXChance]

Except all those PvP dailies start opening up as soon as you can PvP, which is what, lvl 10? So between 10 and 50 you're opening up a big can of worms as far as income goes, since we're talking about PvP dailies. I realize you don't see a problem with the game ending up like http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt201/robertthebard/th_Borkedeconomy.jpg, but I do. Especially if you want to get and keep new players, some of whom might want to PvP.

 

Actually, no. If you remember, below 55 are different dailies and weeklies compared to the level 55 ones. I believe below 55 is 2 matches/1 win and above 55 is 4 matches/2 wines for the dailies. The weeklies are 15 matches/2 per win for above 55 and I think 8 matches/4 wines for below 55. So the mechanics have been present in game for quite some time already. Been a while since you leveled an alt?

[CyberneticDucks]

funny how this thread has gone off topic from PvE/PvP/other incomes to a bash fest between the OP and everyone else. i would like to see us get back on track.

[OddballEasyEight]

funny how this thread has gone off topic from PvE/PvP/other incomes to a bash fest between the OP and everyone else. i would like to see us get back on track.

 

Unfortunately, that lies mostly in the OP's corner.

The way he has answered people that simply don't agree with him is stirring up peoples feelings.

Had he kept a mor civil tone, this might have been a productive discussion.

 

Add to that the fact that this pretty much dragged over from his previous thread that was a big cluster****, and you have a recepie for disaster.

[CyberneticDucks]

Unfortunately, that lies mostly in the OP's corner.

The way he has answered people that simply don't agree with him is stirring up peoples feelings.

Had he kept a mor civil tone, this might have been a productive discussion.

 

Add to that the fact that this pretty much dragged over from his previous thread that was a big cluster****, and you have a recepie for disaster.

 

why does it have to be that way? can't people just ignore attacks and put the thread back on track? eventually it goes past the point of no return and only the first 10 out of 32 pages have anything to do with income. if his previous thread shared the same idea, and resulted in the same end, why bother?

 

the key is to be civil about it, but still share the idea, even if it means getting people cranky. if you are so focused on keeping people happy, so long as you aren't trying to get people riled up, that you fail to share an idea, there is no point of making the thread in the first place. also, saying there is a problem with anything (there are lots) in the game, people assume you are whining about it. by assuming you are just whining, they fail to see that you're actually trying to fix the problem, and also point out the pros/cons of your idea.

 

while many OPs are provocative and ask for trouble many times, it is other people's fault for giving them attention, as well as ignoring the actual idea the person is trying to express. some people say they are just disagreeing, and do in fact give valid points, they do so in a sarcastic, snooty attitude that also asks for trouble from the OP.

[Malckiah]

funny how this thread has gone off topic from PvE/PvP/other incomes to a bash fest between the OP and everyone else. i would like to see us get back on track.

 

I guess we can see who the real trolls are here. The thread has been on topic and without problem since at least post #277 all the way to you post at 312, then you come in and say this? Or is on topic for you really mean on troll topic?

[Malckiah]

Unfortunately, that lies mostly in the OP's corner.

The way he has answered people that simply don't agree with him is stirring up peoples feelings.

Had he kept a mor civil tone, this might have been a productive discussion.

 

Add to that the fact that this pretty much dragged over from his previous thread that was a big cluster****, and you have a recepie for disaster.

 

As you would see if you were here to really be productive I have been keeping a civil tone and the thread has been going fine, til you and your buddy are again trying to derail it.

[horrorfaneightys]

I guess we can see who the real trolls are here. The thread has been on topic and without problem since at least post #277 all the way to you post at 312, then you come in and say this? Or is on topic for you really mean on troll topic?

 

Seriously - now you're attacking someone who was trying to diffuse the animosity in this thread. You need to stop with the aggressive knee-jerk reactions.

[Malckiah]

Seriously - now you're attacking someone who was trying to diffuse the animosity in this thread. You need to stop with the aggressive knee-jerk reactions.

 

I was pointing out facts....I even listed the exact post #'s that the thread was ALREADY ON TOPIC....so why would you come in during an already on topic thread and bring out a can of worms??

[horrorfaneightys]

I was pointing out facts....I even listed the exact post #'s that the thread was ALREADY ON TOPIC....so why would you come in during an already on topic thread and bring out a can of worms??

 

Look at post #314. The poster you attacked was clearly trying to diffuse the issue and get the thread back on topic. But you completely ignored that and went straight into assault mode. This is why your recent threads haven't ended well. You're being too hostile to people who disagree with your views, and now it seems you're attacking even people trying to help you.

[Malckiah]

look at post #314. The poster you attacked was clearly trying to diffuse the issue and get the thread back on topic. But you completely ignored that and went straight into assault mode. This is why your recent threads haven't ended well. You're being too hostile to people who disagree with your views, and now it seems you're attacking even people trying to help you.

 

 

the thread was already on topic until they threw it off At 312

Edited May 18, 2014 by Malckiah

[horrorfaneightys]

the thread was already on topic until they through it off AT 312

 

So posters promoting discussion of the topic, and encouraging others to ignore the earlier animosity are making the thread off topic? Ok then. Good luck getting any sensible discussion with that attitude.

[Malckiah]

So posters promoting discussion of the topic, and encouraging others to ignore the earlier animosity are making the thread off topic? Ok then. Good luck getting any sensible discussion with that attitude.

 

omg....when a thread is ON TOPIC and someone comes in out of the blue and focuses the attention back to the past and finished "BASH FEST" and mentions that the thread (which may I remind you in already on topic) needs to get back on topic.... there is something not right about that.

1. It gives the impression that the thread was not on topic already.

2. It re-focuses the attention back to the "bash fest" that someone new coming in would not even have known about.

 

The post right after his only goes to prove my point that it was only there to fuel fire!

Edited May 18, 2014 by Malckiah

[horrorfaneightys]

omg....when a thread is ON TOPIC and someone comes in out of the blue and focuses the attention back to the past and finished "BASH FEST" and mentions that the thread (which may I remind you in already on topic) needs to get back on topic.... there is something not right about that.

1. It gives the impression that the thread was not on topic already.

2. It re-focuses the attention back to the "bash fest" that someone new coming in would not even have known about.

 

The post right after his at only goes to prove my point that it was only there to fuel fire!

 

You and maybe one other poster not at each other's throats does not suddenly negate the rest of the thread. In fact all a new poster would need to look at is your thread title/OP to see the hostility.

[Malckiah]

You and maybe one other poster not at each other's throats does not suddenly negate the rest of the thread. In fact all a new poster would need to look at is your thread title/OP to see the hostility.

Bring something to the thread that is realated to the topic please.

[robertthebard]

Actually, no. If you remember, below 55 are different dailies and weeklies compared to the level 55 ones. I believe below 55 is 2 matches/1 win and above 55 is 4 matches/2 wines for the dailies. The weeklies are 15 matches/2 per win for above 55 and I think 8 matches/4 wines for below 55. So the mechanics have been present in game for quite some time already. Been a while since you leveled an alt?

 

The only Planetary Dailies in PvE start with Belsavis, I think, around 47, but the bulk don't start until 50+. The bulk of dailies for PvE are FPs. We don't want FPs factored in, but, PvP has dailies and weeklies open from the time you enter until the cap. We've gotten into a discussion of increasing PvP daily income, so, that would start at lvl 10ish. Yes, there are level brackets for PvP, but since low level PvP dailies don't have a PvE planetary equivalent, you're talking increasing that income from lvl 10 forward. If the custom mat were to be added for comms, then we're talking about being able to obtain and sell that mat from somewhere in that range as well, while PvE is locked out of that market until 50. I bring this up because it is one of the OP's suggestions.

 

This is why I feel it's better left alone. It's easily the worst possible way to try to bolster PvP income you could implement, and will do more to break the game than simply leaving it like it is. Nobody I know likes to run the grindfest that is dailies, so much so in fact that nobody I know runs them every day. Most days you can find us all on alts, talking about how we should really be running our dailies, but... I think if you could have been a fly on the wall during development, you may have heard some of this dialog, and realized that this is probably exactly why they left the dailies as the prime (for lack of a better word right now) method of making money. They are, by and large, easy, and even PvP gear means that you're going to be successful at running them, so they're open to everyone.

[horrorfaneightys]

Bring something to the thread that is realated to the topic please.

 

But hostility is the topic. You find the game hostile to your PVP dreams. You find any responses that disagree with your opinion hostile. You respond in a hostile manner to virtually any poster, even non-hostile ones. It doesn't take a rocket scientist that the whole point of this thread is hostility.

[Malckiah]

But hostility is the topic. You find the game hostile to your PVP dreams. You find any responses that disagree with your opinion hostile. You respond in a hostile manner to virtually any poster, even non-hostile ones. It doesn't take a rocket scientist that the whole point of this thread is hostility.

 

Well I am sorry that your eyes have chosen to see only evil, but hostility is not the topic of this thread. You are free to start your own thread if you would like and you are also free to stop posting in this one since you do not like it. Thank you and have a wonderful day!

Edited May 18, 2014 by Malckiah

[OddballEasyEight]

You and maybe one other poster not at each other's throats does not suddenly negate the rest of the thread. In fact all a new poster would need to look at is your thread title/OP to see the hostility.

 

And the OP wonders why everybody gets so aggressive towards him